View Full Version : No guts, no spine, no heart...
Plastic Paddy
12/10/2005, 8:57 PM
Discuss. :mad:
:ball: PP
Not so much that over the 10 games, just the last two. and the draw against the swiss and the two against israel have come back to haunt us.
Dont think our formation helped tonight, we seemed to be short in attack with robbie or clint dropping back to pick up the ball and no one overlapping, in defence we were either caught on one side or a man too short.
at the end of the day it isnt just this result that has cost us, we should have made more of our chances instead of sitting on the other draws.
and its too early to call for kerr's head, thats just a quick reaction we need to rebuild and refocus for the euro's
Closed Account 2
12/10/2005, 9:03 PM
no hope...
Seriously were in very bad shape, dont think we've looked this bad since pre 1988 days, there is a lack of talent and a lack of direction.
Not so much that over the 10 games, just the last two. and the draw against the swiss and the two against israel have come back to haunt us.
Dont think our formation helped tonight, we seemed to be short in attack with robbie or clint dropping back to pick up the ball and no one overlapping, in defence we were either caught on one side or a man too short.
at the end of the day it isnt just this result that has cost us, we should have made more of our chances instead of sitting on the other draws.
and its too early to call for kerr's head, thats just a quick reaction we need to rebuild and refocus for the euro's
I'm not calling for Kerr's head, but he needs to buck his ideas up if he can get the FAI to renew his (now expired) contract.
absolutely dreadful. Much as I dislike Kerr, there's no way he can be blamed for a performance like that- the players had no interest and no heart. Overpaid, overrated big time charlies living off undeserved reputations.
thejollyrodger
12/10/2005, 9:10 PM
no world class players more like
Closed Account 2
12/10/2005, 9:13 PM
Duff and Given
The Swiss dont have any "world class" players, nor do the Swedes, Poles, Serbs or Croats. The Ukrainians only have 1 or 2 as do the Czechs now, yet all these have made it thru.
dancinpants
12/10/2005, 9:15 PM
Duff and Given
The Swiss dont have any "world class" players, nor do the Swedes, Poles, Serbs or Croats. The Ukrainians only have 1 or 2 as do the Czechs now, yet all these have made it thru.
Well hello Mr Larsson!! How are ye?
Well hello Mr Larsson!! How are ye?
Injured, that's how.
thejollyrodger
12/10/2005, 9:21 PM
nah they dont , but but the swiss have players who are technically good. They have proper clubs unlike us.
junkie
12/10/2005, 9:22 PM
It's no coincidence lads that the emergence of no guts, no spine or no heart within the Irish team started sometime around early 2003 :rolleyes: . There is talent in this Irish team, we are better than tonight and the last few games but we have absolutely no discipline whatsoever. At least with Charlton we hoofed the ball up the pitch properly.
At the end of the day the buck stops with Kerr. One or two inept performances then you could question the players but these poor performances have been going on for the last 2 years!
dancinpants
12/10/2005, 9:25 PM
Injured, that's how.
Did he not score tonight?
It's no coincidence lads that the emergence of no guts, no spine or no heart within the Irish team started sometime around early 2003 :rolleyes: . There is talent in this Irish team, we are better than tonight and the last few games but we have absolutely no discipline whatsoever. At least with Charlton we hoofed the ball up the pitch properly.
At the end of the day the buck stops with Kerr. One or two inept performances then you could question the players but these poor performances have been going on for the last 2 years!
surely hoofing it up the pitch wouldnt do us any better either when the players who are meant to be in attack can win a ball in the air and have to drop into midfield to get the ball
when this group was drawn no one thought that top spot could have been up for grabs as they had the french penciled in, we had a chance but didnt take it, as expected at the start we played for second place, its not as if kerr has lost a load of games, we just cant score more than two goals.
thejollyrodger
12/10/2005, 9:28 PM
the swiss spent the money investing in youth. we did the cheap option and didnt get away with it. Ireland has moved on from the "figthing irish" and there isnt the same hunger in the sporting world as their used to be. If this was 10 years ago we would have sunk the swiss with weaker players.
Did he not score tonight?
I don't know. I thought he was out until the new year after breaking his leg.
Still, I'm not going to let fact get in the way of a good joke. :D
brine3
12/10/2005, 9:30 PM
Make Shay Given captain.
Steven Reid: wave of the future.
Plastic Paddy
12/10/2005, 9:32 PM
the swiss spent the money investing in youth
Don't believe it. They have a team full of 2G players - the products of other systems. There's no hiding the fact that - Kevin Doyle or no Kevin Doyle - the Irish domestic set-up is bankrupt, and it really does pain me to say so.
:ball: PP
dancinpants
12/10/2005, 9:32 PM
I don't know. I thought he was out until the new year after breaking his leg.
Still, I'm not going to let fact get in the way of a good joke. :D
LMAO :D
He did score tonight BTW :p
boysingreen
12/10/2005, 9:34 PM
Disgraced. I'll never forget this disappointment. How could we go from feeling we could compete with any team in the world, to this... We beat no one... no one... in this entire campaign...
The only thing to take solace in... is the fact that we couldn't possibly have been further away from deserving a place in Germany.
CollegeTillIDie
12/10/2005, 9:43 PM
4th in the group is fairly gank guys to be fair.
4th in the group is fairly gank guys to be fair.
yeah it is but only a matter of points between 4th and 2nd!!! how gutted are israel? finished on the same points as the swiss and have to sit and watch because they finished their games on saturday.
appart from our group there is only one other group that has scored less than 20 points to finish second
if we had of finished second would it have been ''acceptable'' to have scraped through?
Green Tribe
12/10/2005, 10:02 PM
I'm too gutted to respond really at the moment....:mad: Basically the Swiss team did not turn up, they were just pi$$ing about, we could have easily beaten them but there ya go. Again Given saved our arse in the 80th minute, but that's no use we needed to score FFS!!!!
Another tournament will be missing us, lets hope we :rolleyes: make it to austria/switz:mad: 08 or it will be a long wait and a long trek for south africa 2010 :eek:
Raging that the swiss went through, they'll get humped in a play-off. One consolation is that Israel did not get a play-off spot! Could ya imagine! :mad:
ozvaldo
12/10/2005, 10:07 PM
I wouldn't have been all that happy had we scraped a goal tonight. As Gilesy said you should do the right things on the pitch all the time. The last 30 minutes of the match tonight were every bit as frustrating as the Cyprus game in terms of intelligent performance. We simply had no idea of how to break the Swiss down and resorted to long ball tactics that were absolutely appaling.
Think of any decent team in world football and how they would try to break the opposition down in the last half hour of a match. Can you see France, Italy or Spain resorting to what we tried??? Bringing on the Doc to try to ruffle them up.
Zero imagination and no ability to do the basic things right. Our passing game was almost non-existent and it seems like our wingers won't even attempt to take a defender on.
Kerr has been found it..he's tactically naive and persists with the same players even when they're not performing well. How Elliott and Finnan didnt start I'll never know. Finnan is a champions league winner for Gods sake! He's twice as good as Steve Carr. Carr used to be a class act with aggression and an ability to get down the line, he simply isn't good enough anymore. The movement off the ball was also inexcusable, no-one wanted the ball. The concept of movement to create space in other areas seems to have been lost on the management..just give it an auld hoof dere up to yung Robbie and see wha happens......I feel sick and hurt! Good luck, God bless and Good night!
Éanna
12/10/2005, 10:08 PM
Don't believe it. They have a team full of 2G players - the products of other systems. There's no hiding the fact that - Kevin Doyle or no Kevin Doyle - the Irish domestic set-up is bankrupt, and it really does pain me to say so.
:ball: PPIt says everything about the "irish" set-up that you have to make that distinction- domestic. In most countries, they would speak of the whole set-up, here we have two different set-ups and they are absolutely worlds apart. The responsibility for that lies solely at the feet of the FAI. They've lived the high life on the crest of a lucky wave that Jack Charlatan and his engerland rejects XI created 17 years ago, and now they're getting what they deserve.
Éanna
12/10/2005, 10:13 PM
The last 30 minutes of the match tonight were every bit as frustrating as the Cyprus game in terms of intelligent performance. We simply had no idea of how to break the Swiss down and resorted to long ball tactics that were absolutely appaling.
Think of any decent team in world football and how they would try to break the opposition down in the last half hour of a match.
Kerr has been found it..he's tactically naive don't see how you can square those two comments off- the bottom line is that Ireland didn't have a single player capable of passing the ball intelligently in order to break down the defence- thats the problem. Kerr might not be the greatest manager, but the tactics have to be based on the players, and the players Ireland have are hoof merchants and ****-kickers, not ball players.
davey
12/10/2005, 10:49 PM
It says everything about the "irish" set-up that you have to make that distinction- domestic. In most countries, they would speak of the whole set-up, here we have two different set-ups and they are absolutely worlds apart. The responsibility for that lies solely at the feet of the FAI. They've lived the high life on the crest of a lucky wave that Jack Charlatan and his engerland rejects XI created 17 years ago, and now they're getting what they deserve.
Yeah, Its all the 2gs fault:rolleyes:
Marked Man
12/10/2005, 10:59 PM
and its too early to call for kerr's head, thats just a quick reaction we need to rebuild and refocus for the euro's
How many tournament qualifiers do you want us to finish fourth in?
ThatGuy
12/10/2005, 11:05 PM
"No guts, no spine, no heart... "
Absolute nonsense. The team showed plenty of guts, determination and commitment but simply aren't good enough.
Typical OTT reaction.
I was a fan of Kerr's when he was put in, put he has to go now. There is potential in the players (see the performance in Paris, just 12 months ago). Kerr bottled it every time we had a chance. Sitting back on leads is cost us big time in this campaign. The tactics were all wrong, and I've seen most of these players play very good football, its up to the manager to get this out of them.
Why did he persist with Carr, or O'Shea, or Holland (I was hardly aware he was on the pitch), or Morrisson (who worked his socks off, but in fairness hasn't any where near the ability to be an international)?
The players that stood out (i.e. those that weren't abysmal) were Dunne and Kevin Kilbane - however in both these cases their actual performance was only mediocre, its just that everyone else was worse.
Except, naturally, for Shay Given. If it were anatomically possible, I would have his babies. He was a real hero. He kept going with an outstanding performance (as always) for his team and his country despite the fact his team-mates were all a pile of utter sh1te. Shay should be a free man of every town in Ireland. He, and he alone, can be emminently proud of what he did over the last week and indeed the last 12 months.
In the end, I'm sort of glad we didn't win. We'd only have had to bear the play-offs which we would undoubtedly lose, or we'd embarrass ourselve in Germany. Also, this catastrophe should really make people sit up and pay attention to the serious problems in Irish football.
So sad, though. :(
Closed Account 2
12/10/2005, 11:53 PM
I feel sorry for Kerr, he seems nice and some results were good (France Away, Czech Home, Holland away) but 4th place isnt not good enough.
Its a shame coz he was great with the youth team, but he cant really go back to that now.
ThatGuy
12/10/2005, 11:57 PM
If Robbie Keane didn't get injured against Israel and if Henry's goal hit the crossbar we would have won the group and people would be calling Kerr a genius.
This campaign hasn;t been a success, it has been a failure. No doubt about that.
But these things happen and Kerr is no idiot. IMO he deserves another crack unless someone like Mourinho sends his CV into the FAI.
If Robbie Keane didn't get injured against Israel and if Henry's goal hit the crossbar we would have won the group and people would be calling Kerr a genius.
This campaign hasn;t been a success, it has been a failure. No doubt about that.
But these things happen and Kerr is no idiot. IMO he deserves another crack unless someone like Mourinho sends his CV into the FAI.
This campaign has been a failure, not just because of a few unlucky bounces of the ball; it is due to the negative tactics employed by Kerr, especially when we actually managed to take a lead in games. We failed essentially because Kerr was afraid. In Paris we had a great performance because we weren't expected to do anything, so we were able to play without the weight on our shoulders. Conversely, in any game which we were expected to do something, or had to do something, we failed miserably. We even struggled in the games against the Faroes and Cyprus, FFS!
I'm sorry to say it, but - Kerr OUT
Gerrit
13/10/2005, 12:16 AM
And a few months ago there was a topic on how the Swiss would be beaten 4-0...
I was hoping for Ireland or Israel in the play-offs, but fair play and congrats to the Swiss. They're a decent side and they will get my support in the play-offs, unless if it's against my beloved Norway.
drinkfeckarse
13/10/2005, 8:15 AM
Kerr has to go for me too I'm afraid. Route one only works if you have the players to do it and we don't anymore. Morrison while decent in the air is no Quinn so why did Kerr persist with that option..
The players lacked ideas and seemed bereft of any football whatsoever. Yes the players are as much to blame as the manager IMO but ultimately the buck stops with him.
Why did Kerr do like for like substitutions when it was a must win game? Yes Robbie was off the boil again but why not put Elliott on and take a defender or a midfielder off. Then he takes Morrison off for the Doc!
Either Kerr is out of his depth or the players don't respect him enough because I was expecting them to run through walls for him last night and they didn't even get close....
BrayZil
13/10/2005, 8:24 AM
I'm absolutely gutted! I've never liked Kerr from the start but the only thing that will make me feel better is if the FAI grow some balls and sacks him! He hasn’t a bloody clue!
Dublin12
13/10/2005, 8:25 AM
But these things happen and Kerr is no idiot. IMO he deserves another crack unless someone like Mourinho sends his CV into the FAI.
Can't see it happening,his tactics are woeful at this level,how carr stayed on that pitch in place of Finnan last night was beyond me,why didn't he try 3 forwards instead of throwing on a centre half up front in place of Morrisson,S.Reid should've been on earlier too.
Countyman
13/10/2005, 8:47 AM
"No guts, no spine, no heart... "
Absolute nonsense. The team showed plenty of guts, determination and commitment but simply aren't good enough.
Typical OTT reaction.
spot on. thats what it boils down to. We just do not have the quality at the moment. Although we could have made it but for the collapse against israel at lansdowne. Kerr and some of the players were responsible for that.
To listen to some of the muppets coming out of lansdowne made me sick.
Clinton Morrison this, robbie keane that..****ing useless ****** etc etc.
Seriously how do clowns like that get tickets? We getting like the english in our bile being thrown at guys in green shirts.
Its not the irish way.
CollegeTillIDie
13/10/2005, 9:08 AM
We are technically not good enough. One footed players who cannot pass accurately on a consistent basis. I blame a slavish adherence over generations to the Anglocentric style of playing football without many of the positive aspects of their play.
Tired&Emotional
13/10/2005, 9:08 AM
"No guts, no spine, no heart... "
Absolute nonsense. The team showed plenty of guts, determination and commitment but simply aren't good enough.
Typical OTT reaction.
I'd have to agree....
OwlsFan
13/10/2005, 9:18 AM
The responsibility for that lies solely at the feet of the FAI. They've lived the high life on the crest of a lucky wave that Jack Charlatan and his engerland rejects XI created 17 years ago, and now they're getting what they deserve.
Bonner, Brady, Moran, McGrath, Whelan, Stapleton, Keane, Staunton etc English rejects ? Lucky to finish top of a qualifying group with more points than anyone else for the only time in Irish football history ? I think not. Points on the board are what counts.
Was very disappointed with Kerr's selection and tactics.
Picking John O'Shea who had been a disaster at full back to play in the middle where accurate passing is vital :eek: It was a defensive move in a game we had to win.
What is the point on bringing on the Doc with 5 minutes to go? Since we had been playing the long ball game and badly at that because we didn't have the midfielders to pass the ball, surely he should have come on with a half an hour to go. If you're going to play long ball, have someone up front who can win a ball in the air for Robbie to feed off like Japan 2002.
Richard Dunne taking the free kicks to lob into the box when he should have been in the box. I saw him asking permission to go forward on a number of occasions and was denied by Brian Kerr. Only very late in the game was he allowed go in for the free kicks.
One of the worst home performances since 0-0 with Iceland. Plenty effort but no guile whatsoever. I had great hopes for Andy Reid but he seems to be going backwards.
First time that we've not finished in the top 2 in a World Cup qualifying campaign since 1986.
Back to living on the memories :(
drummerboy
13/10/2005, 9:22 AM
When Ireland were leading 1 0 in Tel Eve and pressing for a second goal, Keer instructed them to sit in. This they duly did, and they conceded. I think Kerr lost the confidence of his players in that instance. To compound it, leading 2 0 to Isreal at home, and he replaces an injured Keane with a midfielder. INEXCUSABLE. He has done a lot for Irish football, but he is no senior manager. What we need now is a manager who will immediately gain the respect of the players and play to a system that the players believe in. That man is Martin O Neill. However an organisation with a clown, like Delaney in charge, are capable of appointing a name manager, possibly someone who hasn't managed in years, like Dalglish
Plastic Paddy
13/10/2005, 9:35 AM
"No guts, no spine, no heart... "
Absolute nonsense. The team showed plenty of guts, determination and commitment but simply aren't good enough.
Typical OTT reaction.
Yes, one written five minutes after getting home from the pub, so it should be viewed in that context.
In the cold light of day though I still don't think there was enough hunger about either last night's or Saturday's performances. I can accept the lack of quality but what I can't excuse is visible, energy-sapping, vein-popping desire. Apart from one shining example across the two games, I don't recall seeing it much in evidence at all. And that's what I find upsetting.
:ball: PP
mchurl
13/10/2005, 9:37 AM
absolutely dreadful. Much as I dislike Kerr, there's no way he can be blamed for a performance like that- the players had no interest and no heart. Overpaid, overrated big time charlies living off undeserved reputations.
Too true and hopefully when the new manager comes in(kerr won't get a new contract) he will blood in soe of the younger lads who will show that they actually want to play for ireland.
It says everything about the "irish" set-up that you have to make that distinction- domestic. In most countries, they would speak of the whole set-up, here we have two different set-ups and they are absolutely worlds apart. The responsibility for that lies solely at the feet of the FAI. They've lived the high life on the crest of a lucky wave that Jack Charlatan and his engerland rejects XI created 17 years ago, and now they're getting what they deserve.
Totally agree, and it isn't a go at 2G's (everytime you dare criticise Saint Jack's mercenaries isn't a criticism of genuine 2G's - how many times does it have to be said :rolleyes: )
Instead of putting the proper structures in place in this country we've relied on the English Set Up to produce our players for the international team. More so in the the 25 years or so. In just the same way there is a lack of English players coming through that system now, we're suffering as well, only with an already small pool it's effects are multiplied. Our best striker can't get a game at a mid table premiership team ffs.
Only way to solve this is a total restructuring of the game here, from the top down. Focus on the eL clubs and their youth structures. The coaching of young players, the fostering of them as well rounded individuals (unlike some of the tossers in that team last night who didn't look interested), a better league in this country giving european experience, central contracts if needs be (working for rugby). The cream of the crop will still go abroad, probably to england, but if from eL clubs there will be money due and fed back into the game.
Yeah, Its all the 2gs fault:rolleyes:
I have no idea what a "2g" is, and frankly I don't care all that much. BUT, the point I'm making is that when Charlton had that success several years ago, it was the ideal opportunity for the FAI to build on it and really create the conditions for an improvement in football at all levels in this country. They didn't, and you can only ride the crest of a wave for so long. Its the FAI's fault- if they're the "2gs" then yeah, otherwise no.
Totally agree, and it isn't a go at 2G's (everytime you dare criticise Saint Jack's mercenaries isn't a criticism of genuine 2G's - how many times does it have to be said :rolleyes: )
Instead of putting the proper structures in place in this country we've relied on the English Set Up to produce our players for the international team. More so in the the 25 years or so. In just the same way there is a lack of English players coming through that system now, we're suffering as well, only with an already small pool it's effects are multiplied. Our best striker can't get a game at a mid table premiership team ffs.
Only way to solve this is a total restructuring of the game here, from the top down. Focus on the eL clubs and their youth structures. The coaching of young players, the fostering of them as well rounded individuals (unlike some of the tossers in that team last night who didn't look interested), a better league in this country giving european experience, central contracts if needs be (working for rugby). The cream of the crop will still go abroad, probably to england, but if from eL clubs there will be money due and fed back into the game.spot on. totally agree.
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