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View Full Version : Five from seven - what a record!



A face
07/10/2005, 4:22 PM
Don Givens .... five points from seven games !!

The guy is a living legend !!

Is that a record ?? The worst record for an U21 manager ever ?? Can anyone confirm this ??

drinkfeckarse
07/10/2005, 4:27 PM
Don't know if it's a record Face but it's a disgraceful amount of points considering the talent at his disposal. Not saying it's a fantastic team but a lot better than their points total suggests.

pete
07/10/2005, 5:53 PM
U21 Table (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/Under21/Standings/round=1910/Group=1908.html)

Cyprus got their 1 & only 1 point against Ireland.
Got text saying goal we conceeded was alltime worst defending.

Givens teams have consistently been unable to defend - is that why only defender to progress to seniort team is John O'Shea? :eek:

Givens has nice handy job setup for himself. His results have been so bad no expectation to win anymore & no one seems to care either.

A face
08/10/2005, 12:59 AM
Givens ... you're some tool alright !! ffs

CollegeTillIDie
08/10/2005, 9:29 AM
What do forwards know about defending except how to exploit bad defending?

CollegeTillIDie
08/10/2005, 9:31 AM
U21 Table (http://www.uefa.com/competitions/Under21/Standings/round=1910/Group=1908.html)

Cyprus got their 1 & only 1 point against Ireland.
Got text saying goal we conceeded was alltime worst defending.

Givens teams have consistently been unable to defend - is that why only defender to progress to seniort team is John O'Shea? :eek:

And to be fair he's no great shakes either:rolleyes:

NY Hoop
10/10/2005, 2:04 PM
Don Givens .... five points from seven games !!

The guy is a living legend !!

Is that a record ?? The worst record for an U21 manager ever ?? Can anyone confirm this ??

??? Wasnt it just last year the U21s had their best ever run? Something like 10 or 12 games unbeaten that included the Madeira trophy? Cant understand this cork hatred for him. He capped John O'Flynn and Kevin Doyle is the joint top scorer ever:rolleyes:

Like the senior manager the players are just not there.


KOH

wws
10/10/2005, 2:24 PM
all underage football is merely developmental

results are irrelevant

WeAreRovers
10/10/2005, 4:05 PM
all underage football is merely developmental

results are irrelevant

Eh, didn't your buddy Kerr win a few trinkets in his time as under-age boss? And didn't the country go typically nuts for a week or two?

KOH

wws
10/10/2005, 4:10 PM
and???

A face
10/10/2005, 4:21 PM
??? Wasnt it just last year the U21s had their best ever run? Something like 10 or 12 games unbeaten that included the Madeira trophy? Cant understand this cork hatred for him. He capped John O'Flynn and Kevin Doyle is the joint top scorer ever

That does not matter in the slightest !!

WeAreRovers
10/10/2005, 4:24 PM
And.............................I agree with you but the point I was making is that results are irrelevant until we win something and then the whole nation goes crazy for a week or so - Michelle Smith, Michael Carruth, the bloke with the drugged-up horse, Stephen Roche, etc etc.

Mind you, Givens is useless and regardless of results he should get the heave ho. Roddy for Ireland with Pat Dolan as U-21 boss (it would be handy for scouting for his brother at Reading)

KOH

wws
10/10/2005, 4:32 PM
theres a new paper called metro out now and i was just readin a bit on givens defending his record......claims he brought through doyle and elliot to senior level


i think its moot point whether these guys "bring them through" or whether they just would have graduated through anyway

theres little input you can really have outside of full time club environment and the really talented will always rise to the top anyway

Schumi
10/10/2005, 4:54 PM
Roddy for Ireland with Pat Dolan as U-21 boss
Throw in Keely somewhere too and we'll be rid of a huge chunk of the ****s from the league. :D

pete
10/10/2005, 6:40 PM
theres a new paper called metro out now and i was just readin a bit on givens defending his record......claims he brought through doyle and elliot to senior level


I was waiting to see how long would be before Givens claimed credit for Kevin Doyle. Maybe he could explain why he dropped him for game in France last year & played Murphy instead.

How can we ever know if U21 team has developed players? Kerr developed under-age players by teaching them how to win. Givens is teaching players a losing mentality.

:rolleyes:

Troy.McClure
11/10/2005, 2:40 PM
I dont see how being 10 points behind the Isreal u21 team in a 10 game group is development!

NY Hoop, Givens was very slow in capping the Cork players and most of Doyles are as a sub I think. What other manager has gone 13 months without winning a game and been kept on?

I agree with Pete and installing a 'winning mentality', its helped the likes of Keane and Duff. I wouldne mind so much if he was developing the team as individuals but then surely the likes of McGeedy and Flood would be tearing through other u21 teams on thier own.

Other FA's have propper coaches at u21 level, England have Peter Taylor FFS! Does Givens even have any other coaching experience? Not at a top level definitly!

(BTW IMO Pere Mahon would be a great choice as u21 manager).

pineapple stu
11/10/2005, 2:44 PM
(BTW IMO Pere Mahon would be a great choice as u21 manager).
Is that a typo or a good French pun?!

Mahon and Wallace would be quality managers, I think. Part-time while managing UCD, of course!! Excellent knowledge of the schoolboy game so they can see who's coming through, works well with youngsters at UCD, excellent knowledge of the eL so knows who is good in the eL, which is more important now, and the FAI can send him over to England to check players out and he can scout for UCD at the same time!:)

Troy.McClure
11/10/2005, 2:54 PM
Here (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/results.asp?section=u21) is his u21 record for the last 2 years btw.

P 26
W 9
D 6
L 11
F 35*
A 33
Pts33




* 9 of our goals for came in 2 games against the Medeira Islands (4) and a friendly against Poland (5)

mandrake
11/10/2005, 2:55 PM
is there anybody going to this game tonite????
i am thinking of going but will it be cr*p

A face
11/10/2005, 2:58 PM
Here (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/results.asp?section=u21) is his u21 record for the last 2 years btw.

P 26
W 9
D 6
L 11
F 35*
A 33
Pts33




* 9 of our goals for came in 2 games against the Medeira Islands (4) and a friendly against Poland (5)

Who has got a gun ??

pete
11/10/2005, 3:02 PM
I thought of going but O'Donovan (he will still be qualified next season) not starting & little chance of coming off the bench so going to skip it.

Troy.McClure
11/10/2005, 3:16 PM
is there anybody going to this game tonite????
i am thinking of going but will it be cr*p

Me, Schumi, Tetzhun1979 (sp), Drumcondra Red and Pete (this will convinve him Im sure ;) ) are going along.

Roo69
11/10/2005, 3:17 PM
all underage football is merely developmental

results are irrelevant

You've been listening to Ozo to much ! Football is all about winning, no matter at what age group, get the winning mentality at a young age

Troy.McClure
11/10/2005, 3:33 PM
Bad teams dont have good players, but this u21 team has good players but bad results. Get rid of the weakest link!

Dont cod yourself about this being for thier development. Its not going to make them better players, none of Citys players came back any better or worse. Its about getting tehm ready for the full team, and unless we want a senior team of losers, we should have a u21 manager who wins games and qualifys for competitions!

KK77
11/10/2005, 4:23 PM
In all fairness not being smart but lads playing at under 8's should not be told it's all about winning as clearly at stage of their development it's not

A face
11/10/2005, 6:20 PM
In all fairness not being smart but lads playing at under 8's should not be told it's all about winning as clearly at stage of their development it's not

I had read you post wrong initially ... i agree with you Rafa !!

People should go and have a look at the FAI Training and Development plans there and come back and comment then ..... a few million quid spent on it and experts working on it .... i am most definitely taking their word on this over all of yours !!

pete
11/10/2005, 6:31 PM
Who mentioned u-8's. I thought we talking about U21s?

pineapple stu
11/10/2005, 8:11 PM
Would've gone in, but it's lashing and I have numerous blisters after walking around Cyprus in hiking boots...:o :p And we're losing already... Degen after 13 minutes. 27 mins gone now.

sligoman
12/10/2005, 12:42 AM
The Irish U-21s ended the European Championship qualifiers with their best performance for over a year and one that offers hope for the future.

Switzerland opened the scoring on 13 minutes when Stephan Lichtsteiner's cross into the area was met by David Degen who fired to the net.

Ireland fought back and could have drawn level but for Swiss 'keeper Diego Benaglio making a fine save from Steven Ward before the break.

Willo Flood and Jay Tabb went close for Ireland in the second half but they couldn't find the goal they deserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, surely that seals it for Givens? The man is a disgrace and it's time for him to go:mad:

pete
12/10/2005, 10:49 AM
If you on Uefa.com can see that only about 5 teams in whole qualification series had less points than Ireland.

I went in the end but didn't think great irish performance. Defending was poor & while we tried Switzerland were comfortable.

NY Hoop
12/10/2005, 1:31 PM
If Givens was from cork there would'nt be half the complaints. The U21s won a trophy last season and had a 13 match unbeaten run. In fairness to Givens he did give Crowe a cap which all EL fans were looking for and he has consistently capped EL players.

While winning is everything surely his job is to bring players through? Having said that any ideas on who his successor would be?

Also boez had a player playing last night for his country. Think they would have brought a few flags? Na a minnow club for sure. BTW one Rovers flag and an Athlone one there so fair play.

KOHLK

A face
12/10/2005, 1:40 PM
If Givens was from cork there would'nt be half the complaints.

Shut up ya clown ... we could say the same about Roy Keane (but theres a difference, Cork people make up their won minds, maybe Dubs should do the same) ..... Don Givens is a failure and people like you enable him to stay where he is !!

You are dragging Irish football down !!

NY Hoop
13/10/2005, 2:01 PM
Shut up ya clown ... we could say the same about Roy Keane (but theres a difference, Cork people make up their won minds, maybe Dubs should do the same) ..... Don Givens is a failure and people like you enable him to stay where he is !!

You are dragging Irish football down !!

Refer to name calling when you dont have a clue: "People like me enable him to stay where he is":rolleyes:

Yeah I'm sure you could say a lot about traitor alright:eek:

KOH

Troy.McClure
13/10/2005, 2:38 PM
Yeah I'm sure you could say a lot about traitor alright:eek:


There's plenty of people from Cork who dont like Keane, where Givens is from doesnt matter, his inability to do a good job and the BS that he comes out with is why people want him to go. Its more obvious now more than ever that we need good young players coming through from the u21s, but any player that does make it through is despite, and not because or, Givens. Give Kerr the job.

NY Hoop
13/10/2005, 2:55 PM
There's plenty of people from Cork who dont like Keane, where Givens is from doesnt matter, his inability to do a good job and the BS that he comes out with is why people want him to go. Its more obvious now more than ever that we need good young players coming through from the u21s, but any player that does make it through is despite, and not because or, Givens. Give Kerr the job.

Not a bad idea. But would Kerr accept a demotion so to speak??

KOH

A face
13/10/2005, 5:55 PM
Yeah I'm sure you could say a lot about traitor alright

Ahh ... read back along there willya .... you're then one who first came out with "If Givens was from cork there would'nt be half the complaints."

I replied to it, giving it the contempt it deserves .... stop trying to drag it off topic. Givens is pathetic and has not supported the senior team properly in his 6 years at U21s ... It is so blantantly obvious that he has failed now ..... and you still defend him ????????? :eek: :o :(

What would you even be bothered ????

pineapple stu
13/10/2005, 9:00 PM
If Givens was from cork there would'nt be half the complaints. The U21s won a trophy last season and had a 13 match unbeaten run.
Balance that out with the fact that, in the entire World Cup qualifying campaign, only Estonia, Luxembourg, San Marino, Azerbaijan and Cyprus got fewer points than us. Granted, we were in the smallest group, but 5 points from 8 games is woeful. So were the performances. While I don't really expect us to match France at this level (and the 2-1 defeat in Cork was a hammering in disguise), you don't expect us to draw against Cyprus, pick up one point against Israel and none against Switzerland, all while playing the most inept style of football imaginable. The players have looked like they don't know each other. I don't know how this is supposed to prepare them for the senior team.

Kerr would be a good U-21 appointment (never had that one before, did he?), but I seriously doubt he'd take it. Or that he'd be offered it, to be honest.

Troy.McClure
14/10/2005, 9:52 AM
Not a bad idea. But would Kerr accept a demotion so to speak??

KOH

Beats the dole queue :o Pete Mahon would be my other choice.

NY Hoop
14/10/2005, 11:17 AM
Ahh ... read back along there willya .... you're then one who first came out with "If Givens was from cork there would'nt be half the complaints."

I replied to it, giving it the contempt it deserves .... stop trying to drag it off topic. Givens is pathetic and has not supported the senior team properly in his 6 years at U21s ... It is so blantantly obvious that he has failed now ..... and you still defend him ????????? :eek: :o :(

What would you even be bothered ????

I hate replying to you and Cop On (maybe a relative?) because it acknowledges your existence.

I wasnt dragging it off topic and I'm not defending him. If you even read my initial post I did ask who would be his successor:rolleyes:

I think that like Kerr he's getting far too much abuse. Over the last year, yes the results have been not good enough so instead of name calling, which shows you cant debate constructively, how about giving solutions and answers?


KOH

Troy.McClure
14/10/2005, 11:26 AM
how about giving solutions and answers?


We have! Fire his ass! :)

A face
14/10/2005, 11:39 AM
We have! Fire his ass! :)

Beat me to it !!

NY Hoop .... the guy should have been fired ages ago imo.
The abuse he is getting is not enough.

Just on that ..... can i ask ... what do you think of what he has been saying in the papers etc. over the last year ?? If you condone that, then i know why you are defending him .... if you dont condone it ... well i just give up so !!