The Irish media

[Cosmo]

Lads saw it mentioned in another thread and havent read any newspapers today yet.

Just to clarify - Are Kerr and the main players in the squad not talking to the media or what?

I personally hope theyre not talking to them as the Irish media have been acting like right c**ts lately coming up to our last big 3 matches which have a bearing on if their country qualifies for the world cup - you'd nearly think they dont want us to qualify :mad:

For the record, dont think even the fringe players should bother their a**e talking to them either

[eirebhoy]

AFAIK most of the players still aren't talking to them. Kerr didn't talk to them yesterday but I don't think he was snubbing them, the papers would like to think he was. Apparantly he was stuck for time as training was later than expected.

[Donal81]

The Irish media is a mixed bag and only a fool would put them all in the same bracket. Dave Walsh, Paul Howard, Paul Kimmage, Malachy Clerkin and Tom Humphries are not the same as tabloid hacks and the Evening Herald can be discounted entirely.

The problem with not talking to the media is that firstly, you punish those who have never done anything but a decent, ethical job, asking the right questions and writing about it fairly. Secondly, you leave a bunch of reporters without any fact or comment. It's their job to produce copy; what Kerr doesn't seem to realise is that the Irish Times, Indo, Herald, Star, etc, will carry just as much space on him and his team whether he speaks to them or not. So, either he and his players speak to the media, put their take on things out there, give out information on the team, let people read what their players are thinking, or you let journalists write opinion pieces based on little other than their own notions.

I actually think Dion Fanning is a good writer but it's his opinion pieces that seem to get people wound up around here and rightly so.

[CollegeTillIDie]

The Irish media is a mixed bag and only a fool would put them all in the same bracket. Dave Walsh, Paul Howard, Paul Kimmage, Malachy Clerkin and Tom Humphries are not the same as tabloid hacks and the Evening Herald can be discounted entirely.

The problem with not talking to the media is that firstly, you punish those who have never done anything but a decent, ethical job, asking the right questions and writing about it fairly. Secondly, you leave a bunch of reporters without any fact or comment. It's their job to produce copy; what Kerr doesn't seem to realise is that the Irish Times, Indo, Herald, Star, etc, will carry just as much space on him and his team whether he speaks to them or not. So, either he and his players speak to the media, put their take on things out there, give out information on the team, let people read what their players are thinking, or you let journalists write opinion pieces based on little other than their own notions.

I actually think Dion Fanning is a good writer but it's his opinion pieces that seem to get people wound up around here and rightly so.

Agree with all of the above just wish to add the following I once heard
There is a saying about Opinions...
Opinions are like A***holes, everyone has them and many of them are full of sh1t!

[pete]

Is it just me of do the media newspaper articles seem worse than normal this week. Every second article seems to be rehash of the last one with no originality...

I've seen a few articles today including Mary Hannigans Kevin Doyle one in the IT which just seem to consist of a few quotes from official press conference & padded with journalists dubious opinions...

:rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Apparantly he was stuck for time as training was later than expected.
Ah yeah, but why let an important fact like that get in the way of an anti-Kerr story?

[tetsujin1979]

2 weeks ago none or the journalists knew or cared who Stephen Ireland was, now because of a MOTM performance he's flavor of the week - 2 more articles in today's indo about him - I'd lay odds there was none when he left the Ireland U-17 squad to go back to Manchester 3 years ago. The Irish squad are not speaking to the media in any great capacity, and there's no "Robbie Keane in Lillie's" type story, so this story, tied in with the pressure Kerr is under anyway to qualify, is a handy way to fill column inches. And in another 2 weeks this will all be forgotten about while the rags pick up on the latest scandal/transfer speculation.

[mandrake]

totally agree with tetsujin1979,(whats that by the way)...
these reporters just write what is hot at moment, they will write about drogba in afew weeks or about another sh1t player in epl.
unfortunately the bandwagion is on and everyone is jumping on.

[hoops1]

IMO Kerr has had a very easy time in general from the media.
But they will have a field day on him if the next 2 results dont go our way

[deadman]

Aside from the media, what about the FAI's approach towards Kerr's future? It's no secret John Delaney would like to see the back of Kerr ... it's certainly possible that certain articles (Dion Fanning's SIndo piece, for example) are the result of a bit of FAI/Delaney pre-emptive manoeuvring.

And as for not speaking to the media ... I'm sure Kerr would never be stupid enough to snub them. That policy has never helped the prospects of any under-fire manager.

[eirebhoy]

From the Indo:

"As expected, Kerr did give a media briefing yesterday morning after training when he informed the hordes of journalists about team news. And it was exactly what it said on the label. At 67 seconds long it certainly was brief and to point."

I'm happy with that. :)

[mandrake]

did anyone hear today fm just before 6 last night.
i am sure they were reading this message board before the article. they were talking to kerrs agent...saying were the media set up by the fai, were they jumping on the bandwagon and 'you heard it here first' media writing!!!

[tetsujin1979]

About as neutral as you're going to get in the Indo recently. Although the other world cup qualifier article headlined "Ireland's fate in Duff's hands" does have the quote "Had that [Duff's shot in injury time away to Israel that hit the crossbar] gone in Ireland would not find themselves in the position they are today, needing to beat Cyprus and Switzerland to keep their World Cup hopes alive and keep Brian Kerr in his €400,000 a year job."
No need to mention Brian Kerr, or even his salary. Why not just "to keep our World Cup dreams alive FULL STOP" ??

[CollegeTillIDie]

Is it just me of do the media newspaper articles seem worse than normal this week. Every second article seems to be rehash of the last one with no originality...

I've seen a few articles today including Mary Hannigans Kevin Doyle one in the IT which just seem to consist of a few quotes from official press conference & padded with journalists dubious opinions...

:rolleyes:

pete
you are correct everyone seems to feel the same way about the coverage of the build up to these games..

[concanta]

I hope Brian Kerr can stick his fingers up at the press this time next week by getting the required results

[CollegeTillIDie]

well said concanta

[Stuttgart88]

There's some interesting stuff in this morning's papaers, Emmet Malone writing specifically on the issue of Kerr's relationship with the media, Gerry McDermott throwing in a few sly digs at the players & Fintan Drury, claiming to be speaking on behalf of Kerr, talking down our players' talent levels. Also, I didn't know that Miller is also in Fintan Drury's stable, perhaps explaining Kerr's loyalty to him? I had previouysly heartd - not confirmed - that this was why Kerr also kept selecting Barrett. Wild rumour, but then I'm an internet fan, not a responsible hack.

But I thought Niall Quinn's perspective in today's Guardian was interesting:

Ireland are not Holland, and Kerr must realise this

Niall Quinn
Friday October 7, 2005
The Guardian

A more aggressive media, a less aggressive football team. I do not want to simplify a situation that is complex, but in a nutshell this is my assessment of the Republic of Ireland under Brian Kerr. The next six days may decide Kerr's fate, with Ireland going to Cyprus tomorrow and then hosting Switzerland in Dublin next Wednesday. Two victories could be enough to see us at the World Cup or in the play-offs. Anything less and Kerr could find his job in jeopardy.


The manager is discovering the thin lines that separate success and perceived failure. Had the Irish beaten France at Lansdowne Road last month, for instance, Kerr would almost certainly have been awarded and signed a new contract. But try as they did, and they could not have tried harder, Ireland lost to a piece of magic from Thierry Henry.
The response is something I have never witnessed before in Ireland. We are a decade or so into the country's Celtic Tiger phenomenon and maybe that has made us a more demanding nation - it's just a theory. But for whatever reason we now have a media akin to London's.

The intensity that accompanies every cough and spit from Sven-Goran Eriksson or Wayne Rooney is now being seen across the Irish Sea. Where once the sporting press travelled every inch of a qualifying campaign with the team, they have now climbed off well before the last kick to pen their disapproval of Kerr's Ireland. To me that is quite a change in the culture.

In Britain it might not be understood just how Kerr came to succeed Mick McCarthy. Having had exceptional results at youth levels, Kerr was a popular and accessible presence among Irish sports journalists and when the vacancy arose he rode a wave of media support like no other. He was clapped into office. Once there, however, he immediately shut a previously open door and that is a decision now revisiting him.

While things were going well - impressive results in friendlies and Roy Keane reintroduced to the squad - Kerr's increasing distance from the media mattered only to the people involved. Meanwhile, he was setting about imposing his ideas on how the game should be played by the national team and a decent start to a hardish group featuring Israel as well as France and the Swiss left him in a comfortable position, if not a cosy one.

Those ideas of Kerr represent a second cultural shift. I would describe him as a technocrat when it comes to coaching. When I started out playing for Ireland the manager was Jack Charlton and the criticism was that we played caveman football. There was an element of truth to that and I would not apologise for it because I always felt that the sheer urgency of our play somehow contained a degree of our Irishness. We are the country of gaelic football, of hurling; we are not Holland.

The following is an example of where these two shifts have merged, I think. When we played England off the park at Wembley in 1991, every Irish player attended a PFA dinner until 2am, less than 72 hours before kick-off. We were in full view of everyone and we are still lauded by the media for our display at Wembley. Last month, five days before France, a few of the Ireland team went out for a meal and after it a few of the few had a night out. There was a frenzy of media criticism designed to embarrass the manager. I could not believe it.

That was the background in which the players went onto Lansdowne Road. They fought hard, but one thing lost in the scrutiny of Irish defeat was just how hard the French fought. They equalled us, which meant to win we had to be superior technically. We may be all Europeans now, but we have no Henry.

That is not Kerr's fault, but the Irish sides who reached Euro 88, Italia 90 and the rest had no Henry. What we had was spirited, sometimes raw Irish talent and all the video analysis in the world won't give you that. I have been in this sort of siege position before and I know what the players are going through. I want them to win - which not everyone in Ireland can say - but I want them to win playing Irish football, not cautious continental football.

[Block G Raptor]

I'm not sure whats going on I was lead to beleive that there was to be no contact with the media y-day and yet when I got home lastnight Andy O'brien was talking to skysports news live frm cyprus ??????????????

[pete]

Did Niall Quinn pen that himself? Fairly good summary.

I'm not sure where we seemed to created his desire to qualify for every tournament when the reality is that we have only qualified for 1 tournament post Soviet breakup. Seems to be consistent with irish event supprters.

[deadman]

The response is something I have never witnessed before in Ireland. We are a decade or so into the country's Celtic Tiger phenomenon and maybe that has made us a more demanding nation - it's just a theory. But for whatever reason we now have a media akin to London's.


In fairness, McCarthy met quite the same 'phenomenon' after defeats against Russia & Switzerland .... only months after the World Cup.
You could say he was dealt with even more severely. He had two poor performances. We've under-performed in most of our recent games.

Kerr, of course, deserves our support for this campaign. But Kerr himself said he'd be judged on results, and our results have been average at best. I know a lot of people who would not have a huge grá for Kerr or his tactics. The media, to a degree, reflect this opinion ... and then a little more, maybe

[eirebhoy]

In fairness, McCarthy met quite the same 'phenomenon' after defeats against Russia & Switzerland .... only months after the World Cup.
You could say he was dealt with even more severely. He had two poor performances. We've under-performed in most of our recent games.

Have we though? Could we have done any better against France? Could we have done any better against Israel at home?

[lofty9]

Quinn is correct - the gutterpress mentality in England has infected the media here. It is symptomatic of the west brit lifestyle that has poisioned our society. It was only a matter of time before the media started to get their claws into Kerr, it is up to the manager now to respond in kind to these guys and send his team from Cyrpus with a win and the leeches with their tails between their legs. These hacks would rather see Ireland fail to get a story. Some of these guys are trash journalists and when the good times roll they are first with their heads up the managers arse. Just like the English supporting ole ole brigade I can do without them. I was listening to some :mad: on today fm yesterday morning (connor morris i think his name was) but the negativity that guy had was unbelievable when reporting on the Cyprus game. That :mad: was actually paid to go there and report for us - these guys should realise that they are in a priveledged position to be able to combine work with play and all they do is moan.

[deadman]

Could we have done any better against France? Could we have done any better against Israel at home?

France, I can accept ... Israel, I cannot. From the position we were in, it was two points dropped. I'd play it again from scratch if i was given the option.

[tetsujin1979]

Also, I didn't know that Miller is also in Fintan Drury's stable, perhaps explaining Kerr's loyalty to him?
This is true, believe it or not Richard Sadlier cut his football agent teeth working on the transfer of Miller to United. Before he failed the exams and went into coaching.

[hoops1]

Sweet mother of Devine god
Whoever paid Quinn money for that article should be sacked
Im suprised people on here agreeing
We now have a media akin to Londons???
Do we now!Well it seems to me that if Wayne Rooney was caught drink
Driving he would now be spending time in rehab with Kate Moss
Not the poor Nice Niall crap that came out after his episode.
Sure wasnt he only 2 4 6 8 20 (pick your own number) over the limit
There was an element of truth in that we played caveman football!
No there wasnt an element becasue it was the truth.
Watch the 1-1 Wembley Draw or any 1990 world cup game again
Crap,Diabolical,Garbage but effective all the same
The game he holds up as an example against England was against an England
team that went on to win the grand total of 0 games at the Euro Championships.Managed by Graham Taylor the worst English manager
ever who was lambasted 24/7 365 and who had all the Knowledge and tactical nous of an Under 12d1 North Dublin League manager
At least hes now found his level in his new job!
The sheer urgency of our play somehow contained a degree of our Irishness
How please explain?????????
We are a country of gaelic football of hurling we are not Holland.
Well thanks for that analytical masterpiece!
Of course if we were a country of Snooker players,Chess players and
mud wrestlers we would have a different approach
Dont blame Gaelic and Hurling for that ****e that the public swallowed
Hoofing balls all over the place and running around like lunatics is never going
to be a good tactic in competitions where you are playing 6 or 7 games
maybe in 80-90 degree heat! Thats the only reason Kerr has tried to make us
a more technical team(even though we have had better players)
The rest is utter tripe,
I must go before I kill myself, Quinn or whover paid him for such ****e

[mjpcc]

So you do not agree with him then? :D

[pete]

So you do not agree with him then? :D

I think he doesn't agree with some points ;)

I do think we are destined to hoofballers as in out top sports hoofing is a subtle tactic & of course our players learn their trade at the mecca of hoofball that the Uk is.

Hurling is all about hoofing - rare to actually pass the ball.
Rugby has the kick & chase & garryowen.
Gaelic football used to be hoofed but now more hand passing.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Quinn is correct - the gutterpress mentality in England has infected the media here. It is symptomatic of the west brit lifestyle that has poisioned our society. It was only a matter of time before the media started to get their claws into Kerr, it is up to the manager now to respond in kind to these guys and send his team from Cyrpus with a win and the leeches with their tails between their legs. These hacks would rather see Ireland fail to get a story. Some of these guys are trash journalists and when the good times roll they are first with their heads up the managers arse. Just like the English supporting ole ole brigade I can do without them. I was listening to some :mad: on today fm yesterday morning (connor morris i think his name was) but the negativity that guy had was unbelievable when reporting on the Cyprus game. That :mad: was actually paid to go there and report for us - these guys should realise that they are in a priveledged position to be able to combine work with play and all they do is moan.

Spot on lofty 9 about what is wrong with Irish society in general.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well here's an interesting issue that was only briefly touched upon.
There was an article during the week, in the Evening Herald, analyzing Robbie Keane's record goal tally, it said he has scored most of his international goals in either meaningless friendlies or competitive games against the groups minnows.
And looking at the bare statistics the guy has a point. However he missed an even bigger point. Irish soccer players North or South, doesn't matter, simply do not score sufficient goals to make us anyway a power in international soccer.

George Best, widely acclaimed as the most gifted football player ever born on the island of Ireland, didn't even make double figures in international football. Joe Bambrick held the record for the North on 12 goals for years. When you factor in that he scored 6 of those in a 7-1 win over Wales you see what I mean. His record stood till Colin Clarke's time. He ended on I think 13. David Healy has only in the past 2-3 years blown that one away.

For years the Record Goalscorer for Ireland (Republic) was Don Givens with 19.
Shortly after this Carmine Bussutil scored 25 for Malta during a period when I think the combined Maltese squad only mustered 41 between them.

Robbie Keane has scored less than 25 , now he should easily beat that target.
But when you factor in the following snippet.... The Republic of Ireland's Women's team's record goalscorer Olivia O'Toole has scored 46, this shows how far behind the England's ( Charlton 49, Lineker 48) we still are.
And God knows they are no great shakes, but it is still a legitimate target to reach.