Hey Hey! Ho Ho! This crazy f*ckers got to go!

[SkStu]

Inspired by a comment from Pineapple Stu on the American Politics thread... how would you rank this list of madmen in terms of most maniacal and diabolical to least? Any why :)

Trump
Putin
Netanyahu
Ali Khameini
Kim Jong
Xi
Modi
Erdogan
Ortega
Maduro

Others? I am light on my list of African madmen who will destroy the world, given that their world was already destroyed.

[Crosby87]

The President of Turkmenistan (I think his son is technically in charge now) is bat**** crazy. Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow

[culloty82]

You'd have to add the Saudi royal family to the list also - ostensibly cosy with the West, but all the while using their oil revenues to finance mosques promoting their particularly fundamentalist branch of Islam.

[pineapple stu]

Probably Orban and Lukashenko would go in too - albeit they're more pawns than major pieces I feel. Aliyev in Azerbaijan as well - nice little bit of ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh lately, and the story of Gurgen Margaryan's murder in Budapest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Gurgen_Margaryan) by an Azeri officer whose freedom was later bought and whose back-pay was restored is a particularly nasty one.

Definitely the Saudis. A concerning reach into Europe too, through the likes of moderate (but poor) countries like North Macedonia and Kosovo.

I can't quite work out where to put Trump in that list. Netanyahu and Putin are up at the top for me in terms of direct impact for obvious reasons, but the Saudis are more subtle and the subtle trolls are often the most dangerous ones. Is Trump just a callous, self-centred idiot who's only interested in money? I can't quite tell.

Right now I think Netanyahu is number 1, then Putin and Trump as an enabler. But in terms of a direct threat to western civilisation, I think the Saudis have the potential to rank higher.

Ali Khamenei, Kim and so on are nut jobs but really their influence is a step down - and I think there's hope in Iran in that popular feeling is against him, albeit as we say with the hijab protests, the police are still quite powerful.

[SkStu]

Thanks for entertaining this, all. Good call on Al Saud not sure how I missed them/him.

Stu, I actually was having the same trouble in terms of the top 3-5 mad lads which is why I threw it up here! I’d agree on the placings you’ve come up with too! It was quite sobering coming up with that list of psychopaths (plus the additions) and realizing that Trump is probably not even close to the most dangerous/problemstic.

[Crosby87]

I know this is obvious of the dead crazies (and not uncommon) but anyone ever watch any of those YouTube videos on how insane Gaddafi got over time?

The Legion of female bodyguards aside. His original manifesto back in the day kinda makes some sense. By the end with the plastic surgery without anesthesia...

But that surgeon was from Brazil and saw many of Gaddafi's people on his compound and even some hookers and didn't meet one Libyan. All the people around him were from other countries. He was paranoid of the ENTIRE population of 7.3 million ppl.

AND the compound was relatively big but not so big, and none of the servants or "workers" on the compound actually knew where he even lived in there.

That's the mild stuff.

[CraftyToePoke]

Good thread, some good reads so far. Hard to say, but at this point, I would say the following, when you find yourself having to stop yourself from silently urging Iran on today, the world is in a pretty deep pickle.

On the subject of depth, how out of his depth Trump is, is actually becoming amusing to me. I'm enjoying it, its become a good watch as it slowly dawns on him, emphasis on slowly.
They aren't interested in deals Donald me laddo, they're interested in territory, ethnicity, ancient grudges and raw power.

[pineapple stu]

They aren't interested in deals Donald me laddo
Yeah, this is spot on I think - the word "deals" sticks out like a sore thumb when he's talking. Which then ties in to where Trump is in the ranking - is he dangerous in the same way as Netanyahu/Putin/the Saudis, or is he just out of his depth here? And if the latter, can he really rank up alongside them? And yet, maybe given the role the US plays in the world (for right or for wrong), an incompetent heading it up can rank alongside the active loonies.

[joey B]

Trump is a liar like most politicians,one of his main points he ran on was anti war and the Democrats were just warmongers,he’s now facilitating Israel starting another war in the Middle East and will probably join in soon,he’s full of s**t ……

[CraftyToePoke]

Yeah, this is spot on I think - the word "deals" sticks out like a sore thumb when he's talking. Which then ties in to where Trump is in the ranking - is he dangerous in the same way as Netanyahu/Putin/the Saudis, or is he just out of his depth here? And if the latter, can he really rank up alongside them? And yet, maybe given the role the US plays in the world (for right or for wrong), an incompetent heading it up can rank alongside the active loonies.

He's in the title race because of it, would be my read, at the moment anyway. Danger is danger in whichever form it presents. Maybe he'll surprise us all but he's looking increasingly flummoxed to me.


Trump is a liar like most politicians,one of his main points he ran on was anti war and the Democrats were just warmongers,he’s now facilitating Israel starting another war in the Middle East and will probably join in soon,he’s full of s**t ……

He's a liar, like them all but you know something, I do believe his naivety / ego / unsuitablility did lead him to think he could sort these things out, & get that Nobel Peace Prize. I think Putin & those types look at him & see nothing of consequence & Netanyahu could well drag the US into the middle east against Trumps own wishes, I do think Netanyahu sees an opportunity to do that because the White House incumbent registers as weak to him. Malleable.

These guys are hardened pros & they see Swindon Town 93 / 94 somehow in the Oval, admiring them.

& its funny as long as nobody pulls out a nuke & starts waving it around.

[osarusan]

I wouldn't consider Trump to be 'maniacal and diabolical'.

I'd just consider him to be totally and utterly out of his depth, completely ignorant of the role that US can (and does) play in world politics and power, and so consumed by a desire to be praised that he'd do, or allow anybody else to do, whatever needed to get that praise.

[seanfhear]

George Bush Junior was / is a moron.

Joe Biden was not combos mentis.

Trump is what he is.

And yet the American Deep-State / Dark-State march on through it all ~ ~ As if it doesn't matter a jot, who / what, is President! ! !

[tetsujin1979]

Most presidents do what they believe is for the good of the country. Pretty much everything Trump has done has been for his own benefit.

[seanfhear]

Most presidents do what they believe is for the good of the country. Pretty much everything Trump has done has been for his own benefit.LOL ~ Excellent, great sense of humour at 1;44 AM ~ That bit about most American Presidents is priceless comedy altogether ! ! !

[SkStu]

A bit naive, Tets. Most presidents/sure, sane individuals from relatively sane countries, sure. Those from that list above and the missing long list of African lunatic leaders kinda puts paid to that theory.

[SkStu]

Good thread, some good reads so far. Hard to say, but at this point, I would say the following, when you find yourself having to stop yourself from silently urging Iran on today, the world is in a pretty deep pickle.

On the subject of depth, how out of his depth Trump is, is actually becoming amusing to me. I'm enjoying it, its become a good watch as it slowly dawns on him, emphasis on slowly.
They aren't interested in deals Donald me laddo, they're interested in territory, ethnicity, ancient grudges and raw power.


Yeah, this is spot on I think - the word "deals" sticks out like a sore thumb when he's talking. Which then ties in to where Trump is in the ranking - is he dangerous in the same way as Netanyahu/Putin/the Saudis, or is he just out of his depth here? And if the latter, can he really rank up alongside them? And yet, maybe given the role the US plays in the world (for right or for wrong), an incompetent heading it up can rank alongside the active loonies.


He's in the title race because of it, would be my read, at the moment anyway. Danger is danger in whichever form it presents. Maybe he'll surprise us all but he's looking increasingly flummoxed to me.



He's a liar, like them all but you know something, I do believe his naivety / ego / unsuitablility did lead him to think he could sort these things out, & get that Nobel Peace Prize. I think Putin & those types look at him & see nothing of consequence & Netanyahu could well drag the US into the middle east against Trumps own wishes, I do think Netanyahu sees an opportunity to do that because the White House incumbent registers as weak to him. Malleable.

These guys are hardened pros & they see Swindon Town 93 / 94 somehow in the Oval, admiring them.

& its funny as long as nobody pulls out a nuke & starts waving it around.

Great series of posts there. Its incredible how one dimensional and ineffective his domestic and global leadership is proving to be... talk big, shout loud - appeal to a ton of people - and then not be able to follow through on much of anything of substance. I thought he might have been better this time round, learnt his lessons, learnt the game etc but if anything he is less effective. A total one trick pony. The Art of the Deal... the bit in Craftys post that i bolded made me laugh because it is so spot on. Anyway... what does that make him? Useless, yes. Dangerous, i dont think so. If he realizes how useless he is, and the ego kicks in though, we could be in danger.

[tetsujin1979]

A bit naive, Tets. Most presidents/sure, sane individuals from relatively sane countries, sure. Those from that list above and the missing long list of African lunatic leaders kinda puts paid to that theory.

Yes, that's what I meant. Basically anywhere with a functioning democracy.

[CraftyToePoke]

Great series of posts there. Its incredible how one dimensional and ineffective his domestic and global leadership is proving to be... talk big, shout loud - appeal to a ton of people - and then not be able to follow through on much of anything of substance. I thought he might have been better this time round, learnt his lessons, learnt the game etc but if anything he is less effective. A total one trick pony. The Art of the Deal... the bit in Craftys post that i bolded made me laugh because it is so spot on. Anyway... what does that make him? Useless, yes. Dangerous, i dont think so. If he realizes how useless he is, and the ego kicks in though, we could be in danger.

What is most intriguing here is Netanyahu has him on the precipice of going against swathes of his own fabled base. Sure there are Republican hawks who'd like to change the Iranian set up, but sections of his largely cannon fodder & jobless / poorly paid base put him where he is ( & they chose him, he didn't build them from thin air ) on a no more worlds policeman, bring the boys home, get them working, they do not want this & are clear about that. It shows how Israel are running rings around him and Netanyahu doesn't give one solitary fcuk about him.

So is it America First ? I think he has to chose self preservation here, whatever the power of the Jewish lobby in the US & he hopefully does, and becomes less dangerous as a by product of that. Thing is the lure of the world stage .... & Donald, hmmmm.

[pineapple stu]

Great series of posts there. Its incredible how one dimensional and ineffective his domestic and global leadership is proving to be... talk big, shout loud - appeal to a ton of people - and then not be able to follow through on much of anything of substance. I thought he might have been better this time round, learnt his lessons, learnt the game etc but if anything he is less effective. A total one trick pony. The Art of the Deal... the bit in Craftys post that i bolded made me laugh because it is so spot on. Anyway... what does that make him? Useless, yes. Dangerous, i dont think so. If he realizes how useless he is, and the ego kicks in though, we could be in danger.
I was Taylor Downing's 1983 a year or two ago - it's a recap of the nuclear crisis in the 80s, when the Soviet jets were on the runways waiting for the order to take off at one stage, and Stanislav Petrov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov) was sacked for not pressing the red button despite the computer read-outs saying war had broken out (he second-guessed it because he'd written the computer code and realised it was crap)

Anyways, one thing that stood out in the book was how calm and reasonable Reagan and Gorbachev as the crisis really ratcheted up. (Andropov and Chernenko were useless - old-school Soviets on the brink of death anyway). They made the call to sit down, talk, and listen to each other - it turned out they got on well and (which arguably impacted things even more) their wives got on too.

Trump and Putin are worlds apart in that regard.

[Razors left peg]

Great series of posts there. Its incredible how one dimensional and ineffective his domestic and global leadership is proving to be... talk big, shout loud - appeal to a ton of people - and then not be able to follow through on much of anything of substance. I thought he might have been better this time round, learnt his lessons, learnt the game etc but if anything he is less effective. A total one trick pony. The Art of the Deal... the bit in Craftys post that i bolded made me laugh because it is so spot on. Anyway... what does that make him? Useless, yes. Dangerous, i dont think so. If he realizes how useless he is, and the ego kicks in though, we could be in danger.

The dangerous part is not so much on the world stage but domestically what long term damaging effects he will cause. At heart, like most loud bullies, he is a coward. That is why most world leaders eat him for breakfast , but at home he has all branches of Government working for him and thats whats allowing him to use the likes of ICE like the Gestapo. Just the other day at a Home Depot beside me they rolled up like they were trying to arrest El Chapo, all to arrest some day workers. The idiotic thing now is that Trump is getting push back from farmers and hotel owner so hes coming out and saying he might need to give amnesty to "illegal workers" in those sectors. They guy is a moron, but is causing economic damage.

I will say that the protests at the weekend did restore my faith in people a little bit. Massive turnouts across the country and 99.9% of it peaceful. I went to one myself and it was actually good craic. The cherry on the cake though was seeing the North Korean style military parade looking pathetic in comparison, and the fact that there were no counter protests in Washington didnt give Trump the scuffle he wanted.

[SkStu]

The dangerous part is not so much on the world stage but domestically what long term damaging effects he will cause. At heart, like most loud bullies, he is a coward. That is why most world leaders eat him for breakfast , but at home he has all branches of Government working for him and thats whats allowing him to use the likes of ICE like the Gestapo. Just the other day at a Home Depot beside me they rolled up like they were trying to arrest El Chapo, all to arrest some day workers. The idiotic thing now is that Trump is getting push back from farmers and hotel owner so hes coming out and saying he might need to give amnesty to "illegal workers" in those sectors. They guy is a moron, but is causing economic damage.

I will say that the protests at the weekend did restore my faith in people a little bit. Massive turnouts across the country and 99.9% of it peaceful. I went to one myself and it was actually good craic. The cherry on the cake though was seeing the North Korean style military parade looking pathetic in comparison, and the fact that there were no counter protests in Washington didnt give Trump the scuffle he wanted.

There's plenty of other posts to talk about him domestically in fairness - I just wanted to put him up there as a comparison to other world leaders in terms of how dangerous or not he is. America has been blind drunk and making a show of itself for far too long. Well before DJT. I hate to say it but the rest of the world doesn't really care any more about the plight of the average American. America made its bed a long time ago. And the apathy (at best; contempt, at worst) to the plight of the average American is at least in part due to how little the average American seems to care about the average global citizen.

[Razors left peg]

There's plenty of other posts to talk about him domestically in fairness - I just wanted to put him up there as a comparison to other world leaders in terms of how dangerous or not he is. America has been blind drunk and making a show of itself for far too long. Well before DJT. I hate to say it but the rest of the world doesn't really care any more about the plight of the average American. America made its bed a long time ago. And the apathy (at best; contempt, at worst) to the plight of the average American is at least in part due to how little the average American seems to care about the average global citizen.

So you missed my point about him not being a massive danger internationally because he is weak

[SkStu]

Ah lad, sure you were banging on about farmers and ICE and protests and illegals and military parades. Liquorice allsorts like. The international reference was 11 words :D (generous count)

[Razors left peg]

Ah lad, sure you were banging on about farmers and ICE and protests and illegals and military parades. Liquorice allsorts like. The international reference was 11 words :D (generous count)

Sorry Stu, I didnt realize you were the arbiter of what people could write. I'll be sure to goosestep in line next time.

I say it again for the slow kids down the back... Trump's danger is more domestic than International, but whether you personally care, or understand, a collapsed American economy is not good for anyone

[pineapple stu]

Trump says he knows where the Ayatollah is but he won't kill him for now.

Christ almighty. Has a western leader ever openly threatened to kill another country's leader before before?

I take it back about how he's maybe just an enabler and not as bad as others. He's utterly deranged

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/17/israel-iran-conflict-live-updates-tehran-trump-evacuation-middle-east

[SkStu]

Sorry Stu, I didnt realize you were the arbiter of what people could write. I'll be sure to goosestep in line next time.

I say it again for the slow kids down the back... Trump's danger is more domestic than International, but whether you personally care, or understand, a collapsed American economy is not good for anyone

Ah shtap willu.

[CraftyToePoke]

Trump says he knows where the Ayatollah is but he won't kill him for now.

Christ almighty. Has a western leader ever openly threatened to kill another country's leader before before?

I take it back about how he's maybe just an enabler and not as bad as others. He's utterly deranged

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/17/israel-iran-conflict-live-updates-tehran-trump-evacuation-middle-east

Cut the man some slack, anyone would be a bit tetchy if they had campaigned on being able to stop the Russia // Ukraine conflict before breakfast if elected, and then be sent away humiliated by their hero Putin when they offered Ukraines head on a plate, rejected because Russia already has that at some stage anyway & the opportunity to make small fry of a US president was more enticing.

So he's upset, something is getting smashed to pieces & it looks like it'll be a mountain in Iran, who get along well with Russia, another angle to keep an eye on, not that Donald will have considered those potential implications at all.

Which swings it back around to my earlier point, he's in this race, one way or another, he's a contender.

Meanwhile, Israel are opening a lot of popcorn.

[joey B]

Trump says he knows where the Ayatollah is but he won't kill him for now.

Christ almighty. Has a western leader ever openly threatened to kill another country's leader before before?

I take it back about how he's maybe just an enabler and not as bad as others. He's utterly deranged

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/jun/17/israel-iran-conflict-live-updates-tehran-trump-evacuation-middle-east

Iran turned out to be a complete paper tiger,air defences destroyed within 3 days,hundreds of Israeli planes flying freely over the country and capital city and top military leadership killed or in hiding ,also being allies with Russia turned out to be all one way and completely useless for them,truly pathetic…..

[pineapple stu]

Cut the man some slack, anyone would be a bit tetchy if they had campaigned on being able to stop the Russia // Ukraine conflict before breakfast if elected, and then be sent away humiliated by their hero Putin when they offered Ukraines head on a plate, rejected because Russia already has that at some stage anyway & the opportunity to make small fry of a US president was more enticing.
In fairness, who ever would have thought typing "VLADIMIR STOP!" onto social media wouldn't work?

[Eminence Grise]

You'd have to add the Saudi royal family to the list also - ostensibly cosy with the West, but all the while using their oil revenues to finance mosques promoting their particularly fundamentalist branch of Islam.

Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, role model for despots.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/18/saudi-arabia-turki-al-jasser-executed

I can almost hear Trump: 'y'know, they got a way, they got, these Saudis they know what to do with and maybe, there's a few, not so smart journalists so-called, not smart not as smart as me and they know it, writing bad, telling lies bad things, bad bad, that maybe we could talk to my friend Mo Mu Moch uh the Saudi emperor about....'