Would Doyle be in Ireland squad if playing in eL? [Archive]

Colm

27/09/2005, 3:25 PM

I honestly think that if Kevin Doyle was still playing for City and doing well in the EL and the UEFA cup (a higher standard than the championship) he would not have been called up.

It's amazing that Kerr suddenly regards him as international standard within 2 months of his move to England despite the fact that he's been doing well in the EL and in Europe for the past two years.

It's a sickening attitude and it's disgusting to see that Brian Kerr has turned his back on where he came from.

Troy.McClure

27/09/2005, 3:28 PM

Well first off, he's not in the international squad [yet].
Secondly, Kerr has called up eL players in the past.
Thirdly (in answer to your question), No, I dont think he would although I think he's exactly the type of player Ireland needs. :(

Dyl10

27/09/2005, 3:31 PM

I was thinking of starting a topic on this myself!! and i agree there is no chance he would have been called up!!! I see this as a disgrace because how much better could kevin doyle have gotten in two months??? not much better is the answer so why was he not been considered before :rolleyes: ?

Colm

27/09/2005, 3:32 PM

Well first off, he's not in the international squad [yet].

Yes he is.
He's been named in the squad for the Cyprus and Switzerland games which was announced this afternoon.

Slash/ED

27/09/2005, 3:32 PM

No, since he'd be in the EL he's automatically be a far far lesser player. Those few weeks in England have turned him around from a complete no mark into a world beater don't you know.

Partizan

27/09/2005, 3:37 PM

I'll be stone cold in the grave before a C/\wkie lines out for Ireland.

Bald Student

27/09/2005, 3:38 PM

I don't agree with the majority here. He was called up because two strikers ahead of him in the pecking order can't play. Don't forget that David Connolly has been called up for the first time in a few years as well.

The last times we had to go beond Connolly for a striker Jason Byrne and Glenn Crowe were called up. The place one behind David Connolly has usually been an eL player. It's just a coincidance that the time the manager has to go that deep into the squad is a few months after Doyle moved clubs.

zinedineontour

27/09/2005, 3:43 PM

Gareth

27/09/2005, 3:43 PM

Firstly no he would not be in the squad if he was with Cork.

Secondly, Macken was called up before an EL player as was a couple of other lads. Doherty is called up all the time ahead of them and so is Elliot.

Pecking order is:

Keane
Morrison
Doherty
Elliott
Connolly
Macken or any other lower division player (Alan Lee)
Now Kevin Doyle
then after exhausting any possibly of calling up retired players, dead players, etc...then he calls eircom league players...

Slash/ED

27/09/2005, 3:45 PM

no and rightly so imo .. The level of opposition he was playing against is limited and a lot of average strikers a la glen crowe look excellent at this level .. He has had a good start in england so far and looks a bright one for the future ...

So a few seasons in the EL proving himself domestically and in Europe, not good enough

3 goals against the world giants he's played against, international class?

fitzknows

27/09/2005, 3:47 PM

How many strikers would have to drop out before Mark Farren was called into the squad. He was neck and neck in the scoring charts with Doyle before the move to Reading.

pete

27/09/2005, 3:51 PM

Pecking order is:

Keane
Morrison
Doherty
Elliott
Connolly
Macken or any other lower division player (Alan Lee)
Now Kevin Doyle
then after exhausting any possibly of calling up retired players, dead players, etc...then he calls eircom league players...

I disagree. I would think pecking order is:

1. Keane
2. Morrison
3. Elliot
4. Doherty (although he is 1st choice sub with 10 minutes left)
5. Connolly
6. Doyle
7. Others: Macken, Lee etc...

I'm clearly biased but i think Dohertys days are numbered (he is not even 1st choice centre half at Norwich). Also Connolly has not changed much & i can see Doyle soon being in top 4 choices.

pete

27/09/2005, 3:52 PM

How many strikers would have to drop out before Mark Farren was called into the squad. He was neck and neck in the scoring charts with Doyle before the move to Reading.

Is not Farren NI qualified? I think he'd have to prove himself in Europe & in 2006 eL before consideration.

drinkfeckarse

27/09/2005, 3:53 PM

It's a sad reflection on Kerr I'm afraid that Doyle is now considered good enough to get into a competitive international squad. As has been pointed out, he hasn't suddenly become a class act 2 months into his English career.

Without a doubt it shows Kerrs contempt for the EL which is unfair IMO.

ccfcgirl

27/09/2005, 4:19 PM

I dont think If Doyle still played in LOI soccer that he would get a game .At age 22 he is getting too old for the under 21 squad and playing with them he done well .Hopfully he will do well with the seniors.

Roo69

27/09/2005, 4:22 PM

How many strikers would have to drop out before Mark Farren was called into the squad. He was neck and neck in the scoring charts with Doyle before the move to Reading.

Should Farren not be in the NI squad ? and it was Zayed and Farren out in front in goal scoring table

Roverstillidie

27/09/2005, 4:26 PM

he is only there because of suspensions.
there are two chances of him making his debut in a competitive game. he will feature in the future, but for now he is filler.

Troy.McClure

27/09/2005, 4:27 PM

This stinks! He's basically the same player but struggled to get into the u21 team when at Cork (even when playing and scoring in Europe) and now a move to the old second division and hey presto he's an international player! It makes me sick! He was good enough before (at least for friendlies) and now that he's moved he just walks into the team :rolleyes:

Poor Student

27/09/2005, 4:53 PM

Should Farren not be in the NI squad ? and it was Zayed and Farren out in front in goal scoring table

I think Farren is from Donegal.

Let's get a grip here people. Doyle's move has proved he is capable of doing it at a higher level, coupled with the injuries this has handed him an opportunity. It's no slap in the face to the league.

Slash/ED

27/09/2005, 5:02 PM

He proved he's capable of playing at a higher level by scoring 3 goals against first division opposition but not by scoring regularly against better sides in Europe for for the Ireland U21s?

Poor Student

27/09/2005, 5:05 PM

He proved he's capable of playing at a higher level by scoring 3 goals against first division opposition but not by scoring regularly against better sides in Europe for for the Ireland U21s?

Yes. It's a more consistent test. What better opposition did he score regularly against in Europe? Nantes in the Inter Toto? I also reckon his U-21 performances are making up some of the basis for this callup.

Fair_play_boy

27/09/2005, 5:06 PM

I'll be stone cold in the grave before a C/\wkie lines out for Ireland.Kevin Doyle is from Wexford. :rolleyes:

Slash/ED

27/09/2005, 5:14 PM

Yes. It's a more consistent test. What better opposition did he score regularly against in Europe? Nantes in the Inter Toto? I also reckon his U-21 performances are making up some of the basis for this callup.

Consistent!? It's three f*cking goals!? Consistent? :confused: He played more games in Europe for Cork than he has done in the first division, I'm fairly sure of that, it's close anyway.

And didn't he score against Nantes, Malmo and NEC? All better or equal to first divison teams imo.

thejollyrodger

27/09/2005, 6:03 PM

no way. not a chance unless he is a St PAts player who signed for Shels

CollegeTillIDie

27/09/2005, 7:30 PM

EL players will only get their game in Friendlies. Mark Farren is from North Donegal the Inishowen peninsula to be exact and is therefore an SPB like myself and eligible for the Republic :D

Troy.McClure

27/09/2005, 7:53 PM

And didn't he score against Nantes, Malmo and NEC? All better or equal to first divison teams imo.

Not against Malmo, no :ball:

Does this show that some eL players are, at least, near the standard required to be fringe players on the international scene?

patsh

27/09/2005, 8:14 PM

Consistent!? It's three f*cking goals!? Consistent? :confused: He played more games in Europe for Cork than he has done in the first division, I'm fairly sure of that, it's close anyway.

And didn't he score against Nantes, Malmo and NEC? All better or equal to first divison teams imo.
Spot on.
He played six games against European club opposition, and was superb in all 6 games. Playing in the second division of English football is hardly a tougher test than playing first division continental clubs, from strong leagues, that qualify for Europe, is it?
It was plain for anybody who wanted to see that Doyle is a special player. It didn't take 3 games with Reading to prove it...
Kerr has just p*ssed on our league again, no matter what anyone says.

redgav

27/09/2005, 8:24 PM

Spot on.
It was plain for anybody who wanted to see that Doyle is a special player. It didn't take 3 games with Reading to prove it...
Kerr has just p*ssed on our league again, no matter what anyone says.

Think those are the key sentences

sad the way the league is viewed by those in charge of the international teams

Fiddlers Elbow

27/09/2005, 10:39 PM

Think people are getting a little carried away here lads.
In answer to question, don't think Doyle would be in squad if still in EL. Let's face it, putting in what seem to be consistently impressive performances and creating and scoring goals in Championship against pretty handy teams must be rated higher than doing it against Bray or Sligo or Finn Harps (no disrespect to any of these teams - just making a point).
If Doyle hadn't been called up, this forum would have had a line of people saying "What does Doyle have to do to be called up?"
Realistically, there are very very few individuals (if any) in EL good enough for international football. Not sure Doyle is either. He deserves his chance though.

Bald Student

27/09/2005, 10:49 PM

Let's face it, putting in what seem to be consistently impressive performances and creating and scoring goals in Championship against pretty handy teams must be rated higher than doing it against Bray or Sligo or Finn HarpsI don't accept that argument. A supporter can judge a player based on what league he plays in and how may goals he scores. I would expect a manager to be able to judge a player by watching him play. The argument is that Doyle is no better a player now after a few games in England that he was a few months ago. I do believe that Doyle being called into the squad so soon after moving to england is an accident of timing but I certainly hope that Brian Kerr regularly watches the players play and doesn't simply judge them on statistics.

Macy

28/09/2005, 7:06 AM

In the interview I heard with Kerr he was saying that he saw him regularly playing for Cork, and now for Reading. Also mentioned about him playing wider for Cork, but more central now for Reading.

Personally, I think if he'd still been eL he would've been called up, just maybe would've taken a bit longer. But sure we'll never now as the Corkies let him go for a pittance....

rerun

28/09/2005, 7:25 AM

First of all, fair play to Doyle, I hope he gets his game. Secondly, did someone mention he was interviewed on Newstalk? I hope he credits Cork and the eL if he does any interviews.

Now, to answer the original question. No, I don't believe he would have been called up if he still played for Cork. Sadly, I think the national team management would be scouring the lower leagues of England and Scotland for somebody with an Irish granny to fill an empty berth on the bench.

Personally, I'd only allow players on the national squad if they had played, or are playing in the eL. So what if we don't qualify for every tournament? We don't do that now anyway. But maybe thats another argument.

eirebhoy

28/09/2005, 7:30 AM

There are 2 major reasons which could lead to Doyle being called up:

1. Don Givens is not calling up players to the U-21's who are not eligible for the Euro Champs. This means Doyle is not missing out on competitive U-21 games by being in the senior squad.

2. Morrison is not able to play against Cyprus. Keane, Duff, Elliott and Connolly are all small players. Doc is tall but he's last resort to grab you a header. Doyle is the only fairly big player that is playing up front for his club.

Anyway, no.1 is the main reason. There are 6 strikers in this current squad (Doyle, Keane, Connolly, Elliott, Morrison, Doc). If the U-21's still had a chance of qualifying Doyle would probably not have been called up to the senior squad. He's in for experience, he will not play.

BTW - Kerr had Doyle in the U-20 squad when he was at Pats. Maybe he's just anti-Cork. :rolleyes:

Terry

28/09/2005, 7:44 AM

rerun

28/09/2005, 7:57 AM

He's in for experience, he will not play.

In fariness, how is it experience? I'm sure he's been on a plane before *and* sat on the bench before. He's been included because there was an empty space.

Macy

28/09/2005, 8:52 AM

Has it anything to do with what league he is playing in, or is it that he has also being scoring for the u21's and with morrison missing was the obvious choice to bring up as a replacement, going on the advise of Given?
Couldn't possibly be, has to be an anti eL conspiracy even when it's years since we've had an international manager who know's the league and is regularly seen at games... :rolleyes:

eirebhoy

28/09/2005, 9:02 AM

In fariness, how is it experience? I'm sure he's been on a plane before *and* sat on the bench before. He's been included because there was an empty space.
There wasn't an empty space. Kerr usually picks a 23 man squad with 4 strikers. This squad has 24 players and 6 strikers. What are you on about btw? Getting to know and training your teammates is vital. Alex Ferguson brings a few kids to most CL matches.

ColinR

28/09/2005, 9:11 AM

theres an empty space as morrison is suspended for the cyprus match. if he was available, i very much doubt that doyle would be in the squad

ThatGuy

28/09/2005, 9:20 AM

To say that Brian Kerr is against the Eircom League in any way, shape or form is absolutely ridiculous, and typically, very paranoid.

Would Doyle be in the Ireland squad if he was still in the Eircom League? Probably not. The truth is that the standard of the Eircom league is well below the standard of the Championship. We can talk all day about how well Cork have been doing in Europe (by Irish standards) but that is not a reflection on the standard of the league.

I am sure that Kerr, a man who has been at more EL games than anyone here, has been aware of Doyle's talents for a long, long time. Now that he is doing well for a club doing so well in the Championship Kerr probably feels that he has proven himself enough to be in the squad as one of our last resort choices.

Kerr isn't anti-Eircom League, Givens isn't anti-Eircom League, get over your paranoia.

dcfcsteve

28/09/2005, 10:10 AM

A lot of average strikers a la glen crowe look excellent at this level ...

Eh ?? What league have you been watching this season....? :confused: :D

tiktok

28/09/2005, 10:17 AM

I am sure that Kerr, a man who has been at more EL games than anyone here, has been aware of Doyle's talents for a long, long time. Now that he is doing well for a club doing so well in the Championship Kerr probably feels that he has proven himself enough to be in the squad as one of our last resort choices.

Oh for fcuks sake! :rolleyes:

Doyle hasn't come on leaps and bounds in the couple of months he's been at reading. The opposition he faced in Europe last year was of a higher standard than the opposition he's faced in England so far.

If he's good enough now, he's certainly been good enough for the last year.

He would never have played for Ireland under Brian Kerr, the only players to EL players to be called up for Ireland squads in recent years have been Crowe, Hoolahan and Byrne. Givens called up the first two against Greece, Kerr called up Byrne and gave him four minutes from what I've heard only to screw over Shels who subsequently had to give Bray extra transfer cash.

Kerr has completely forgotten where he came from ffs.

Kerr has made it quite clear it's where you play, not how you play that gets you into the Irish Squad.

Jerry The Saint

28/09/2005, 10:28 AM

Kerr has completely forgotten where he came from ffs.

Clearly he hasn't!

Kerr called up Byrne and gave him four minutes from what I've heard only to screw over Shels who subsequently had to give Bray extra transfer cash.

Once a Saint, Always a Saint! :D

tiktok

28/09/2005, 10:49 AM

Clearly he hasn't!

Oh fine, he turns up at the odd Pat's match, what I mean is that he's unwilling to take the same chance on players that he himself was given.

Irish based, did the business at underage level........etc.etc.