Indo: Aussie plan can help Eircom League bounce back

[pete]

Irish Independent (http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=12&si=1471700)



Aussie plan can help Eircom League bounce back
Wednesday September 21st 2005
ADVERTISEMENT
Click here!

SOME day soon those very busy people in Genesis are going roll out their third report into Irish soccer.

Genesis III will be a white paper on the Eircom League and is expected to outline the path to success on and off the field for domestic football.

It will be interesting to see if they make any comparisons between soccer in Ireland and Australia because experiences 'down under' are very similar to those 'up here'.

Eighteen months ago the Australians took a long hard look at their national league and concluded that all was not well. It was facing intense competition in the domestic market from more dominant codes of football and while they had low television ratings for the domestic game there was high interest in television coverage of Champions League and Premiership soccer.

They also had low gates, low revenues and low wages with many clubs experiencing financial problems. Those same problems are replicated within the Eircom League and when Genesis deliver in the coming days we going to find out if Irish soccer has the balls to tackle them in the same forthright manner as the Australians.

They disbanded their domestic flagship, the National Soccer League, and launched the A-League, which kicked off four weeks ago. They have eight clubs, seven of which are based in separate Australian cities with the other in Auckland, New Zealand.

Each team has a squad of 20 players and a salary cap of $1.5m Australian dollars for 19 players, which is around €950,000. The other player is a marquee player who can be paid as much as the club can afford so Sydney were able to splash out €500,000 on Dwight Yorke to bring their salary spend to just under €1.5m. They signed an exclusive television deal with a cable sports channel, attracted a blue chip sponsor in Hyundai and ran a television commercial aimed at youth in Australia and New Zealand.

Their target audiences are the 16 to 24-year-olds as well as old soccer supporters from the defunct National Soccer League and families. The campaign worked as the opening weekend saw a cumulative attendance in excess of 70,000 at the four games and although this figure dropped by week four it was still at 46,605 which represents an average of 11,000 per game and is very much in line with their projections.

Here in Ireland some clubs in the Eircom League Premier Division have annual payrolls of between €1m and €2m and are only attracting ten per cent of the average Australian gate.

At the recent "Money, Marketing and Media" seminar organised by the Eircom League, Professor Bill Gerrard of Leeds University Business School presented the A-League as a case study for the delegates to consider and then made several suggestions.

He proposed the introduction of a salary cap in the Eircom League and suggested that the marquee principle could also be used to attract popular veteran Irish stars back home or sign highly skilful players who can pull in the crowds.

Although the average weekly attendance of 12,000 is up six per cent on last season it's only quarter the size of the A-League and it is probably costing more per spectator than Australia. Gerrard suggests the introduction of Championship play-offs to make the league title race more exciting and increase attendances.

The Australians have been radical and innovative in a bid to save their domestic game and the Eircom League may soon find that they have no choice but to follow suit.

Gerry McDermott
Bootroom

[Buller]

Well it just shows ye what can be done here.

[pete]

Well it just shows ye what can be done here.

Yeah 2 franchies for Dublin South Wanderers & North Dublin Celtic.

:D

[superfrank]

What are you on about Pete??

It's an interetsing idea but the whole playoff thing is really annoying. I don't think it'd be very effective.

[Buller]

Yeah 2 franchies for Dublin South Wanderers & North Dublin Celtic.

:D
Excluding that part of course... ;)

[thejollyrodger]

a play off for promotion ok. not for the league. The rest of it about wage cuts etc makes sense. If shels could get 10,000 people week in week out we could fund everything !

I hope this genesis report on the EL really shakes things up

[TheOwl]

Yeah 2 franchies for Dublin South Wanderers & North Dublin Celtic.

:D

No screw that - Dublin is big enough to have four teams if marketed properly, add two from the North, one team from Connaght, and then merge Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Cobh into the Munster Wildcats (who could play their home games at a redeveloped Thomand Park).

The Corkies are well used to name changes, but us Dublin clubs have been going for decades and that tradition needs to preserved!

I presume you're on board with this idea Pete? :p

[crc]

...add two from the North...
Derry City and Belfast Glinftonville!?? :D

[Poor Student]

Didn't the league undergo an overhaul which included disbanding some teams and making new franchises? I'm sorry but this is Europe where football tradition goes back a century and you cannot wipe the slate clean and start it all up again. With a salary cap how can we ever advance in Europe either?

[exiled_gufc_fan]

I've advocated a franchise type system on these boards before. I think it would be foolish not to at least consider it.

[patsh]

This "guru" seems to have completely ignored the fact that Irish clubs must compete in European competition, we are not just one big island with teams playing each other over and over again.His ludicrous idea of paying our own local Irish players small wages, and then paying a big salary to some f*cking has-been from cross-channel must be the stupidest gombeen idea I've ever heard. We pay the young lads very little, and we pay the "veteran" loads of money?:rolleyes:
Supposing Cork City get to play Roy Keane (or the big pub sign Gary Breen:D ) for a season - an old man who is a multi-millionaire gets paid most of the wages at the club, while the other 19 get the rest.
So to any young lad who wants to play football and make a living out of it here, you might as well put a sign outside every club ground saying "if you want to be able to negotiate your own contract and get top wages, f*ck off to England for a few years and when you are past it there, come back to us"

"Prof" Bill Gerrard is a f*cking arseh*le, and obviously didn't spend 5 minutes figuring out the the only comparison between football in Ireland and Australia is that in both countries, football is played on an island.

[tiktok]

Gerry McDermott should know a damn sight better at this stage.
What a crock of sh!t :rolleyes:

[thejollyrodger]

lads, a lot of clubs cant afford some of the wages being paid. Most clubs are in serious financial difficulty. I thought a wage cap until clubs have attendences worth speaking about made sense.

I dont think anyone is calling for a franchise type system.

[gustavo]

one team from Connaght,
theres only 1 team in Connacht anyway:)

[noby]

"launched the A-League, which kicked off four weeks ago. They have eight clubs"

Give it a couple of months and it'll get very repetitive.

[Ash]

Another reason the National Soccer League disbanded, although it is not
publicised much, is that there were 4 teams based in the Sydney suburbs
Sydney Olympic, Sydney United, Paramatta Power and Marconi Stallions.

The trouble was that each club is from a different ethnic background and
there was trouble among rival fans at these derby games.

Olympic are based in a predominately Greek suburb of Sydney, United were
originally founded as Sydney Croatia, Marconi in an Italian part and Paramatta
had a bit of everything, as it is a good bit out of the city. Fans saw derby
games as a rivalry between their country of origin rather than club rivalry.

I was a regular at Sydney Olympic games for a while but any time they played
Sydney United there were very few club colours on display in the crowd,
most people were draped in either Greek or Croatian national flags.

[bigmac]

lads, a lot of clubs cant afford some of the wages being paid. Most clubs are in serious financial difficulty. I thought a wage cap until clubs have attendences worth speaking about made sense.


A wage cap makes sense if it's a proportion of turnover, not a flat rate across the board. Even at a flat rate some clubs would still be in trouble trying to pay a full squad. This can't be done though until accounts across the league start being properly audited and checked out.

If you were going to replace the league with rebranded franchises it'd be Southeast (Waterford, KK), South (Cork, Cobh), Southwest (Limerick), West (Galway, Athlone), Northwest (Sligo/Harps), North (Derry), Northeast (Dundalk/Drogs), Midlands (Longford, Monaghan), with 4 teams in Dublin divided up geographically. Shels and Dublin City would go out to the new Shels site and merge together. Bohs would stay in Dalymount, Pats would move out to UCD and merge with the college and Bray Wanderers, and Kildare County would move into tallaght with Rovers, rebranding their name to the Tallaght Titans or some other such rubbish. Gives you 12 teams, with a third of them in the Dublin area. Add in 2 or 3 teams from the North if you want to expand the league and there you have it.

Would it work? Not a hope! Terrible idea. Is easy to do in a country with such a large urban population but can you really expect people to go from Sligo to Ballybofey every Friday night for a match, or go to Galway from Athlone? It'd never work. The only way Irish soccer is going to work is from the grassroots up. If young players aren't brought up being told that the EL is a good and viable league to play in, then we'll never start to develop clubs capable of competing in Europe.

[pete]

Another reason the National Soccer League disbanded, although it is not publicised much, is that there were 4 teams based in the Sydney suburbs
Sydney Olympic, Sydney United, Paramatta Power and Marconi Stallions.

The trouble was that each club is from a different ethnic background and
there was trouble among rival fans at these derby games.


Just like dublin so. ;)

We have Gypsies, Travellers, Inchicorians & Oillites :D

[Roverstillidie]

Oillism is more of a religious cult than an ethnic group!!
Easily forgotten are seerians who are a seperatist bunch who reject the more established groups.
And a threat to the natural order has been recently discovered to the south in the form of the langeronians.

[thejollyrodger]

The clubs we have at the moment are grand. soccer is mostly an urban sport and there is always going to be more intrest in dublin than the rest of the country.

as someone suggested, a better idea would be a wage restraint in relation to income.

i dont know how they will get bigger crowds though. were not really a nation of week in week our supporters

[pete]

I would think its illegal to say that players cannot earn more than X amount. Easier to introduce rule that says clubs cannot spend more than X on total wage bill.

€950k for Aussie players wage bill is very low at i think for maybe 18 or so 1st team squad players.

I don't think bringing hasbeens like Yorke would do anything for the eL.

[LFC in Exile]

I don't think bringing hasbeens like Yorke would do anything for the eL.

No - but it would mean a bonanza for adult shops. :)

[Macy]

€950k for Aussie players wage bill is very low at i think for maybe 18 or so 1st team squad players.
It'd be wrong to make a straight comparison anyway, cost of living far lower than here. A women who worked here recently emigrated and reckoned 2:1 when taking exchange rate and cost of living into account, but I'm sure there's people here that have done the oz thing....

[Red4Eva]

the only proper way forward for the league is serious investment in coaching for young players&attacking the bar stooler mentality so ppl might give the league a chance. but i do think it'd be good for the league if somehow a cupla dublin clubs merged. for a city of a million+ people&shels, who have to be regarded as the best club at the moment, can only get 800-900 for a game whereas ourselves get 1600 in the graveyard division

[ThatGuy]

the only proper way forward for the league is serious investment in coaching for young players&attacking the bar stooler mentality so ppl might give the league a chance. but i do think it'd be good for the league if somehow a cupla dublin clubs merged. for a city of a million+ people&shels, who have to be regarded as the best club at the moment, can only get 800-900 for a game whereas ourselves get 1600 in the graveyard division
If my club was to fold so that a new franchise could be formed then I wouldn't follow it, and I am sure most people would feel the same.

You can't just force an artificial affinity to a club, it has to be developped.

What you are suggesting is that the clubs that we have all followed for years should be destroyed so that we can try and attract some people to games with no interest in Irish football?

[Roverstillidie]

If my club was to fold so that a new franchise could be formed then I wouldn't follow it, and I am sure most people would feel the same.

You can't just force an artificial affinity to a club, it has to be developped.

What you are suggesting is that the clubs that we have all followed for years should be destroyed so that we can try and attract some people to games with no interest in Irish football?

direct those comments to rocky seery and his chf cheerleaders!!

[Red4Eva]

If my club was to fold so that a new franchise could be formed then I wouldn't follow it, and I am sure most people would feel the same.

You can't just force an artificial affinity to a club, it has to be developped.

What you are suggesting is that the clubs that we have all followed for years should be destroyed so that we can try and attract some people to games with no interest in Irish football?

i totally agree that's why i said somehow

[Schumi]

Jesus, this is the worst idea yet. The possibly workable point from that article is a salary cap. I think English rugby league operates a cap of some percentage of turnover. I'm open to correction on that but if true, it must be legal in the EU and would be a good way to go IMO. The rest of the stuff in the article are so stupid as to not require comment.

[BohDiddley]

The CIA World Factbook credits Australia with a population of 20million +. Are we to understand that attendances of 11,000 in an eight-club league with this population base, in a sports-crazed culture, is being held up as an astonishingly successful turnaround? Socceroos or suckers?

I hope any consultants who do the sums on this have a better grasp of arithmetic as it relates to a population of around one fifth of Oz's. They can do the sums -- it's what they're paid for -- but that is either on a par or actually worse than EL's proportionate position.

As it is, if true, 6% growth year on year is a respectable performance. Better to build on a solid if modest model, and for once provide it some decent funding that reflects the strength of participation in the game, than to pull down the whole thing in search of some spectacular revival.
Especially if this madcap scheme includes a group hug with Shels, and Bohs supporters having to learn that puerile injun chant!

[bigmac]

The possibly workable point from that article is a salary cap. I think English rugby league operates a cap of some percentage of turnover.

From the BBC Sport website


Rugby League
First introduced a decade ago, clubs were limited to £1.7m on players' salaries in 2005
Rugby union
Premiership clubs operate under a maximum annual wage bill of £2m
American football
No team in the NFL can spend more than £47m ($85m) on wages in 2005. If they do financial penalties are shared between other teams
Basketball
NBA franchises are limited to £25.5m ($46m) but rules are bent for long-serving players
Baseball
Teams with a high wage bill pay a "luxury tax" which is shared among the other teams
Ice Hockey
The 2004/5 season was called off due to disagreements over a cap but an agreement has now been reached
Australian Rules
Has been in place since the 1980s but is different for each team based on geography and the cost of living

[Schumi]

From the BBC Sport website
Thanks, didn't know that rugby union had one in England too.


As it is, if true, 6% growth year on year is a respectable performance. 6% growth in the EL? Where's that figure from?

[blutil]

as far as i know the NY Yankee's (baseball) break their wage cap by loads every year because they can easily afford to pay the fines.

[BohDiddley]

Thanks, didn't know that rugby union had one in England too.

6% growth in the EL? Where's that figure from?
Second last par of the Indo piece. Don't know where it's sourced though.

[The Stars]

If my club was to fold so that a new franchise could be formed then I wouldn't follow it, and I am sure most people would feel the same.

You can't just force an artificial affinity to a club, it has to be developped.

What you are suggesting is that the clubs that we have all followed for years should be destroyed so that we can try and attract some people to games with no interest in Irish football?
Sumed up perfectly....

[bigmac]

as far as i know the NY Yankee's (baseball) break their wage cap by loads every year because they can easily afford to pay the fines.

that's true, the "luxury tax" is sufficient to deter most teams though. Even the reigning champions (RedSox) are regularly considering trading one of their best players (Manny Ramirez) because of the huge money he's on. Spreading the tax amongst other clubs acts as an extra deterrant though, can't see many clubs in Ireland willing to give money to their rivals just to have the privilege of paying more wages.

[Schumi]

Second last par of the Indo piece. Don't know where it's sourced though.Oh yeah, see that now. Misread it as being Australia's increase for some reason. Wonder is it just guesswork (seems unlikely given the specific figure) or from the official figures given to the FAI.

[liamon]

.... soccer is mostly an urban sport and there is always going to be more intrest in dublin than the rest of the country.

Then how come Cork City get bigger crowds than the Dub teams?
How do you explain the existence of Harps, Sligo, Cobh, etc.
To merely dismiss the interest in soccer that exists outside the pale is a foolish way to look at things. Granted, there isn't enough of a population to support a major football team in most rural areas, but that doesn't mean that there is no interest there.
Soccer was always far and away the most popular sport where I grew up (middle of nowhere, turn left). Much of the crowd that Cork City draws comes from towns and villages outside the city.
At the end of the day, it's the most popular sport all over the island and needs to develop across all areas and sectors in order for this league to thrive. Merely looking at attendances in Jackeen-land won't ever help the league to grow to it's full potential.

[ThatGuy]

Then how come Cork City get bigger crowds than the Dub teams?
I think that Cork people buy into the whole "People's Republic" stuff, and closely identify themselves with their county, which isn't really the same in Dublin. Cork City seem to effectively be county reprsentatives it seems too. And of course they are doing well at the moment.

[BohDiddley]

Then how come Cork City get bigger crowds than the Dub teams?
Because it's a merger.
We Dubs might envy CC attendances, but not so much that we all want to follow one team, or fewer teams (apart from dropping CHF and UCD).
No Sirreee! :D

[Poor Student]

I think that Cork people buy into the whole "People's Republic" stuff, and closely identify themselves with their county, which isn't really the same in Dublin. Cork City seem to effectively be county reprsentatives it seems too. And of course they are doing well at the moment.

Hits the nail on the head for me. Non-Dublin clubs have several advantages. Most of them are named after and wholly represent an entire town or county. Particularly with Cork when this is combined with minor centre/perhiphery resentment and being the club with the largest single city to themselves it helps. Someone pointed out that UCD's crowd at the League Cup final was half the last two finals. However when a Dublin club reaches a final it does not have the same effect in mobilising the town/county pride into a big day out wherever the game may be, particularly the capital.

[gypsydownunder]

Here's the bits that are worth talking about.

Football in Australia was fcuked. End of. Now, no-one is saying that it isn't but at least there's cause for real optimism.

The national team has only qualifies for one world cup - 74. This is mainly becasue they only play a play-off games(s) every year against varying opposition. That's fixed from now as for Australia will now play in the Asia qualifiers from 2010. So if they're good enough over a campaign - like everyone else who qualifies, then then they'll be there.

More importantly, the doemstic league was dead. Really dead. Sh1te teams squabbling. Dwindling crowds. Bickering over heritage and tradition. Amateur administration. Seem vaguely familiar?

Worry less about the specific details of the solution in Australia. But if you do then you must put other suggestions forward.

The only point that really matters is that Australia took drastic steps and the early indication is that it's working.

If you're intersted you can find out more http://www.a-league.com.au/.

[BohDiddley]

GDU, taking the difference in population into account -- a multiple of five -- it appears that this plan has succeeded in bringing Aussie football to at best roughly par with Irish attendances.
Where's the logic there in smashing the current set-up?

[thejollyrodger]

The Eircom league with all its faults is a bad comparision to the Aussie sitution.

The league here just needs someone (in any other country it would be the FA) to properly adminisor the league. Clubs need some kind of cap on wages in relation to their turnover. That would at least give a lot of stability to the league.

Crowds will improve if clubs get a better run in Europe and so will the facilities and the ref'ing along with all the rest of it.

The Eircom League needs reform not disbandment

[pete]

I don't think the EL in current structure can reform. I believe the rules & admin need to be destroyed & start from blank page.

I see Andrew Packer in Sydney squad & he wasn't good enough for more than 5 minutes action with Cork City last season. Just shows people will watch teams if game is packaged correctly.

The EL could at least start with reasonable website details on teams, players, matches, tv time etc...?

[liamon]

Hits the nail on the head for me. Non-Dublin clubs have several advantages. Most of them are named after and wholly represent an entire town or county. .......
No argument there. But the crowds achieved outside the pale clearly show that there is significant interest in soccer outside Dublin, which is what I was trying to convey. Just walk down any street in any rural town and count the soccer jerseys versus the GAA jerseys. Soccer is the most popular sport across the country, not just in Dublin. I just get a bit annoyed when I see people equating soccer with urban areas and GAA with provincial towns.

[ThatGuy]

No argument there. But the crowds achieved outside the pale clearly show that there is significant interest in soccer outside Dublin, which is what I was trying to convey. Just walk down any street in any rural town and count the soccer jerseys versus the GAA jerseys. Soccer is the most popular sport across the country, not just in Dublin. I just get a bit annoyed when I see people equating soccer with urban areas and GAA with provincial towns.
Look at the attendances in county GAA matches and ask yourself is soccer really more popular than GAA. A lot of soccer jerseys may be sold, but that counts for nothing.

Judget the popularity of the sport by participation levels and attending spectators. I think that soccer has a long way to go before it can be considered the most popular sport in the country.

[BohDiddley]

Judget the popularity of the sport by participation levels and attending spectators. I think that soccer has a long way to go before it can be considered the most popular sport in the country. No it hasn't (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=26633&highlight=participation)

[Jaime]

No it hasn't (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=26633&highlight=participation)

So if Gerry McDermott and John Delaney say it then it must be true. I don't think there are many participation sports played around where either of them live.

[Poor Student]

No argument there. But the crowds achieved outside the pale clearly show that there is significant interest in soccer outside Dublin, which is what I was trying to convey. Just walk down any street in any rural town and count the soccer jerseys versus the GAA jerseys. Soccer is the most popular sport across the country, not just in Dublin. I just get a bit annoyed when I see people equating soccer with urban areas and GAA with provincial towns.

However this obsession with less Dublin clubs does not match up with this point. The amount of Dublin clubs in the league just about reflects the chunk of the state's population in the Dublin area. Non-Dublin clubs will get bigger attendences on the big occasion more on the basis of local pride than love of the game. I'd say passion is fairly equal about the country.