2025 Licensing Thread

[EalingGreen]

As an aside, Bonnyrigg Rose have just been docked 6 points by the SPFL for having a sloping pitch, in contravention of their League Licence! It's kinda complicated, but this seems to explain it:

"When Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion to League Two, they required only an Entry Level licence to be allowed to compete in the division. That rule was changed last year, meaning that a Bronze Level licence is now the minimum requirement for a club to comply with SPFL rule ‘D4’.
Bonnyrigg were granted a derogation – an exception from this rule - at the beginning of the season as they club intimated that their intention was to install an artificial surface at their New Dundas Park home, but having confirmed this will not be possible, they were downgraded to an Entry Level licence by the Scottish FA in September due to the condition of their pitch.
Therefore, they have been found to be in breach of SPFL rules."
https://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/slippery-slope-scottish-soccer-club-calls-donations-after-115807795

It's hard to see how they are gaining any sort of advantage, when both teams have to swap ends at half-time. In contrast, the SPFL allows artificial pitches, even up to Premier level, some of which are pretty awful. Meaning some clubs get to play on plastic for over half their games, whereas the rest with grass pitches only play a small percentage of games on plastic.

And if The Rosey Posey* can't raise the money needed to remedy it (£100k+) before next season, will that mean another deduction?

Bloody ridiculous (imo).


* - Fabulous nickname btw!

[Nesta99]

I would wager the vast majority of clubs aren't on 52 week deals. Huge expense during the off season when there's little to no income.

When it costs the same over a financial year I dont get why the problem really. Surely pretty basic budgeting, ensuring that money is available each week unless, like Dundalk, things were relying on week to week cashflow which always catches up in the end when only accumulating debt. But if not robbing peter to pay paul then setting aside money in a wages a/c so it covers 52 or 12 payements (and not raided), why the fuss about it. Im not an accountant so maybe there is a better reason. I vaguely recall players were able to draw some welfare payments when contracts (or more payments) ended over the close season which bosted their income (52 week worth of pay over say 40 weeks + weekly welfare claim), but I think thats ended and was a bit dodgy in the first place.

[placid casual]

I would wager the vast majority of clubs aren't on 52 week deals. Huge expense during the off season when there's little to no income.
Any professional clubs that are not on 52 week deals are not very professional.
People in a profession except to get paid every week/fortnight/month without exception.

[yurt]

Are any club not on 52 week player contracts?

I'm guessing pretty much none of the first division clubs are and with the playoff between the divisions they need to run on the same or similar schedules.

[Nesta99]

As an aside, Bonnyrigg Rose have just been docked 6 points by the SPFL for having a sloping pitch, in contravention of their League Licence! It's kinda complicated, but this seems to explain it:

"When Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion to League Two, they required only an Entry Level licence to be allowed to compete in the division. That rule was changed last year, meaning that a Bronze Level licence is now the minimum requirement for a club to comply with SPFL rule ‘D4’.
Bonnyrigg were granted a derogation – an exception from this rule - at the beginning of the season as they club intimated that their intention was to install an artificial surface at their New Dundas Park home, but having confirmed this will not be possible, they were downgraded to an Entry Level licence by the Scottish FA in September due to the condition of their pitch.
Therefore, they have been found to be in breach of SPFL rules."
https://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/slippery-slope-scottish-soccer-club-calls-donations-after-115807795

It's hard to see how they are gaining any sort of advantage, when both teams have to swap ends at half-time. In contrast, the SPFL allows artificial pitches, even up to Premier level, some of which are pretty awful. Meaning some clubs get to play on plastic for over half their games, whereas the rest with grass pitches only play a small percentage of games on plastic.

And if The Rosey Posey* can't raise the money needed to remedy it (£100k+) before next season, will that mean another deduction?

Bloody ridiculous (imo).


* - Fabulous nickname btw!

I suppose the advantage was had before promotion sort of. Say if they didnt meet requirements they wouldnt be promoted, a club that invested in facilities would take their slot. Or they would drop to the tier that their licence allows. Unless they got a derrogation on the basis of future development like a new pitch but then back tracked, spent money on players but cant sort the pitch in a very old LoI *cough* manner. So advantage may not be considered a matchday thing as as you say both sides play the same disadvantage. Sure the Brandywell Hill was rarely an issue for visiting teams if not winning a league between 1997 and the current pitch nstallation is any any guage.

[pineapple stu]

Just being used to how to play the slope is an advantage too

Remember the Tolka groundsman on telly years ago talking about a slope near the touchlines - Shels would know bouncing balls stayed in more often than you'd expect and knew not to give up on them

[Nesta99]

Just being used to how to play the slope is an advantage too

Remember the Tolka groundsman on telly years ago talking about a slope near the touchlines - Shels would know bouncing balls stayed in more often than you'd expect and knew not to give up on them

Or artificial surfaces, leting grass grow, not watering a surface, added familiarity of the eccentricities of a pitch and its dimensions. Good old fashioned home advantage!!

[nigel-harps1954]

Any professional clubs that are not on 52 week deals are not very professional.
People in a profession except to get paid every week/fortnight/month without exception.

That's all well and good with wealthy financial backers and millions of Euro made in European money, but back in the real world some clubs are still living week to week and rely heavily on match night income, and other fundraising streams.

[placid casual]

And they are the ones that should remain semi professional. You kinda missed my point there.
IF a club wants to be professional in this league they should have finances in place that ensures they can pay 52 week contracts- THAT is the real world you speak of.

[Mr A]

As an aside, Bonnyrigg Rose have just been docked 6 points by the SPFL for having a sloping pitch, in contravention of their League Licence! It's kinda complicated, but this seems to explain it:

"When Bonnyrigg Rose won promotion to League Two, they required only an Entry Level licence to be allowed to compete in the division. That rule was changed last year, meaning that a Bronze Level licence is now the minimum requirement for a club to comply with SPFL rule ‘D4’.
Bonnyrigg were granted a derogation – an exception from this rule - at the beginning of the season as they club intimated that their intention was to install an artificial surface at their New Dundas Park home, but having confirmed this will not be possible, they were downgraded to an Entry Level licence by the Scottish FA in September due to the condition of their pitch.
Therefore, they have been found to be in breach of SPFL rules."
https://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/slippery-slope-scottish-soccer-club-calls-donations-after-115807795

It's hard to see how they are gaining any sort of advantage, when both teams have to swap ends at half-time. In contrast, the SPFL allows artificial pitches, even up to Premier level, some of which are pretty awful. Meaning some clubs get to play on plastic for over half their games, whereas the rest with grass pitches only play a small percentage of games on plastic.

And if The Rosey Posey* can't raise the money needed to remedy it (£100k+) before next season, will that mean another deduction?

Bloody ridiculous (imo).


* - Fabulous nickname btw!

Rosey Posey.... ROSEY POSEY!!!???!!!!

I support them now and will not have a bad word said against them

[Mr A]

Wait. They play in red and white. **** them and their stupid pitch.

[LTFC]

Your not being at all realistic, and that includes Prem Div Clubs.
The budgeting issue for football is that cost can be budgeted for the season, probably with 90% accuracy for the domestic part of a season. So a club could say it will cost us 1m to run, with 650k for the first team, or 2m, with 1.5m for the first team and be pretty sure that would be where the costs would end up.
Income on the other hand is dependent on so many variables. Pre covid no club could confidently budget gate receipts includ season tickets of over 500k in a season. 2025, maybe 5 could get 1m in season tickets/gates, but I’d only be confident in 1 of those, and then the other 5, not all will earn 500k from gates and season tickets, even assuming gates stay on around 2024 levels for those clubs.
Whether your spending 300k or 3m a year, no guarantee that you will generate enough to meet those costs

[2 Year Contract]

I see that Drogheda’s (and Walsall's) owners the Trivela group have bought Danish top division club Silkeborg. Saw a few mentions on Twitter that it could cause a bit of bother regarding European places as both clubs are due to play in Europe next season having won their domestic cups but there are uefa rules on multi club ownership within their competitions. There are obviously ways around it seen as RB Leipzig/Red Bull Salzburg as well as Man City/Girona playing in the champions league at the same time in recent years. Anyone know more on that rule?

[joey B]

I see that Drogheda’s (and Walsall's) owners the Trivela group have bought Danish top division club Silkeborg. Saw a few mentions on Twitter that it could cause a bit of bother regarding European places as both clubs are due to play in Europe next season having won their domestic cups but there are uefa rules on multi club ownership within their competitions. There are obviously ways around it seen as RB Leipzig/Red Bull Salzburg as well as Man City/Girona playing in the champions league at the same time in recent years. Anyone know more on that rule?

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/uefa-manchester-city-united-champions-europa-league-girona-nice-ineos-ratcliffe/

I guess something like that will happen,UEFA will always find a way for the rich people to bend the rules!

[2 Year Contract]

Rovers fans held a protest outside their match tonight over their ownership. Some details in the second photo, they seem to be worried that Desmond and Wilson will take over the fans stake in the club

https://x.com/seanocsport/status/1859667941379444804?s=46

[WoodquayBoy]

Just a bit of info for all those new Bonnyrigg Rose fans, their home game with Stirling Albion today was postponed due to a frozen pitch

[EatYerGreens]

Just a bit of info for all those new Bonnyrigg Rose fans, their home game with Stirling Albion today was postponed due to a frozen pitch

Boneyrigg Froze

[DCSIL]

Rovers fans held a protest outside their match tonight over their ownership. Some details in the second photo, they seem to be worried that Desmond and Wilson will take over the fans stake in the club

https://x.com/seanocsport/status/1859667941379444804?s=46

Oh dear... will Rovers North funding be cut if the Members are forced out?

[nr637]

Did I read somewhere that the Mayo League maybe considering applying for a First Division Licence for the 2025 season! :confused:

[Nesta99]

Did I read somewhere that the Mayo League maybe considering applying for a First Division Licence for the 2025 season! :confused:

Just 1 more and we can all happily look forward to a 12 team Premier Division and Dundalk promoted without ball being kicked in 2025.

[Mr A]

Just a bit of info for all those new Bonnyrigg Rose fans, their home game with Stirling Albion today was postponed due to a frozen pitch

Good enough for them. Hoorbags.

[legendz]

Did I read somewhere that the Mayo League maybe considering applying for a First Division Licence for the 2025 season! :confused:
Non LoI academy teams:
U14: Klub Kildare, Mayo and CK United.
U15: Klub Kildare, Mayo, Limerick and CK United.
U17: Klub Kildare, Limerick and CK United.
U20: Klub Kildare and CK United.

Mayo get mentioned a lot though they aren't fielding teams at U17 and U20.

[Kiki Balboa]

Drogheda have their season tickets at 300 euro. That must be most expensive in the league?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Cork are 315

[joey B]

https://www.derrynow.com/news/derry-sport/1665177/derry-city-s-season-tickets-for-2025-are-the-most-expensive-in-the-league-of-ireland.html#:~:text=Fans%20will%20need%20to%20pay ,needing%20to%20pay%20€240.

Derry are the most expensive at 340 euro

[placid casual]

Jaysis that's expensive...
Would there be much take up by the derry faithful of those ST's?
Is the owner looking to recoup the money spent on the shiny new stands
Rovers ST's are €235 for renewal and €260 for new- 3,300 sold so far I'm told.

[dcfc_legend9]

Jaysis that's expensive...
Would there be much take up by the derry faithful of those ST's?
Is the owner looking to recoup the money spent on the shiny new stands
Rovers ST's are €235 for renewal and €260 for new- 3,300 sold so far I'm told.

As a club we don't get the tax breaks that the other clubs in Ireland get. You can understand from a business point of view why the prices are higher.

From a fans point of view you will always have those who find it tough to pay that kind of money. Same for all the clubs. £285 to watch 18 games a season as a hobby every second Friday is reasonable enough in my mind. The Derry faithful will kick up a fuss for a while as we tend to do but will eventually do as they do and take up their seat, I personally think with the new stand there will be more season tickets than previous years.

Season tickets last year where £280 quid so have gone up by £5. Not a massive jump so I wouldn't say that Phil O'doherty is looking to recoup anything. He already shells out 1million plus a year to keep the club afloat without looking to recoup it.

The other side of the coin is that the club merchandise is also probably the cheapest about. The price of a Jersey is £50.00 compared to some of the prices of the other LOI teams.

[brendy_éire]

As a club we don't get the tax breaks that the other clubs in Ireland get. You can understand from a business point of view why the prices are higher.

I'd counter that with the fact that the most expensive IL ST is £195.
I don't mind paying the £285. It's less than £6 a week, which is what I put away weekly to pay for it.
However, for a town that is certainly not the richest in the country, it can see why people find it a bit expensive.

[Nesta99]

Is £5 increase worth the negative sentiment? £15k if 3k STs are sold doent seem worth it when someone is already filling a £1m hole and there is still the whole cost of living crisis thinking happening. There is an argument for smaller annual inreases rather than a larger jump but for me I think its easier to pick the timing and justify a bigger jump where the money in becomes less 'why bother', cite that there havent been increases over x number of years, offer ways to pay, add to concessions even, point to the cost of ground developments and hopefully increased demand, throw in the old building a team that wins costs etc. When the season has been an expensive damp squib adding a few quid to tickets is fart in a lift stuff, when opting to not add to prices has people saying fair play!?

[brendy_éire]

Is £5 increase worth the negative sentiment? £15k if 3k STs are sold doent seem worth it when someone is already filling a £1m hole and there is still the whole cost of living crisis thinking happening. There is an argument for smaller annual inreases rather than a larger jump but for me I think its easier to pick the timing and justify a bigger jump where the money in becomes less 'why bother', cite that there havent been increases over x number of years, offer ways to pay, add to concessions even, point to the cost of ground developments and hopefully increased demand, throw in the old building a team that wins costs etc. When the season has been an expensive damp squib adding a few quid to tickets is fart in a lift stuff, when opting to not add to prices has people saying fair play!?

I do get what you mean, but do think smaller increases are easier for people.
An increase of a fiver basically matches the rate of inflation. If you hold off for a few years and hit people with a £30 increase, it'll may annoy people more?
There is a new monthly payment option the club have introduced this year, which is a great idea.

[smasherdrog]

Drogs are doing instalment payments on their season tickets also.

[EatYerGreens]

Good enough for them. Hoorbags.

"Can you show us on the doll where Bonnyrigg Rose touched you, Mr A?"

[oriel]

Seemingly good news coming from Dundalk next week, tax bill reported to have been settled or offer accepted either way tax cert meant to be on its way, and the club seem confident the FD licence will be confirmed by middle of next week.

Signings then due to be announced after the tax cert / licence confirmed, so things are moving. Would be thinking most / all will be FD players, and that will suit.

[Nesta99]

The senior taxman in the country grew up beside me about 10 minutes walk from Oriel, mad Celtic fan, wouldnt have been an Oriel regular but would have given as much wriggle room as was legally possible. The amount in question wasnt huge in the grand scheme so a payment plan wasnt tough to sign off on. Id have been more concerned by other creditors and how they could have moved to get payment but they now also seem fine with whatever has been agreed. Serious credit to whomever has been able to talk these people owed money in to being nice about it all. There better be follow through though!! These things tend to be one time offers of goodwill.

It never ceases to amaze how the supposedly small things matter so much, like getting minor remedial work done on the YDC to allow it to reopen - on the surface it feels that if there is this attention to detail with the small stuff then it is at least possible the big stuff is being done right too. If clean toilets under the stand become a things rather than half storage areas I might start thinking that where we are now is the best thing to have happened. The immediate post P6 era admin acted as if these things were beneath their remit when they knew that fans were being wound up by basic neglect of Oriel never mind a lack of bigger plans and it was just lazy - how hard was it to delegate?

[dundalkfc10]

It's in one of the local papers in Dundalk today that we will be getting our licene tomorrow and also we have been giving permission to not change the pitch in oriel until next season

[placid casual]

All a case of nothing to see here then. God love the FAI licensing dept.

[DonegalHoop]

The ultimate box ticking exercise!

[Nesta99]

All a case of nothing to see here then. God love the FAI licensing dept.

Hardly new stuff. Deadlines set in stone, debt restructured, revenue issue tax clearance, and mere plans for infrastructure have been sufficient for clubs forever. As always with the FAI decisions lead to more questions, grant for the pitch must be ok to sit there until next season, floodlights possibly the same if ok for 1st Division, budget for a penniless club no problem. Will be great craic if we go on a cup run and end up with a home draw, a televised semi final especially against a premier division side!

Box ticking is what you want with licencing, pass or fail.....one day....

[outspoken]

I'll be absolutely delighted if/when Dundalk get a licence but the FAI have created a serious problem for themselves going forward here. They essentially extended the deadline to allow one club to limp over the line and now they are giving them any amount of deregations (Nesta is correct that nearly every club in the league gets them) but it will be interesting to see what happens if there is a serious injury caused on that pitch in Oriel this season when it should have been ripped up by now. Can they be sure the floodlights will survive the season, they were reportedly on their last legs last season. Dundalk have been treated very poorly by the fai down the years but they've done them a serious turn here. Would they have done the same for a smaller club in the division? I'm not so sure..

[Mr A]

Some parrallels here with when Derry City collapsed- the rules were ignored to get the latest incarnation back in (the licensing deadlines were already gone).

But a few years later when the rogue trader wrecked Galway United and the trust kept them going to the end of the season, the trust were not allowed in.

Inconsistency has always been a feature.

[Martinho II]

Some parrallels here with when Derry City collapsed- the rules were ignored to get the latest incarnation back in (the licensing deadlines were already gone).

But a few years later when the rogue trader wrecked Galway United and the trust kept them going to the end of the season, the trust were not allowed in.

Inconsistency has always been a feature.

Wonder what ever happened to NG ?

[Nesta99]

It's in one of the local papers in Dundalk today that we will be getting our licene tomorrow and also we have been giving permission to not change the pitch in oriel until next season

Was also in the local paper that P6 left 900k in the bank and wrote off a loan of 1.7m also when they left. Interesting that Statsports 'sponsorship' was over 600k after taking over. The finances shown are just mad. Its as if people just stopped bothering with efforts to generate income beyond matchdays at some point in 2022 and in to 2023 but kept spending, transfer fees and all.
Not suggesting this happened but it looks like a takeover or a significant new investor was expected, would plug some holes (maybe to just get to another Euopean slot and continue winging it) but never materialised - fire sale, no full checks on a buyer, cant manage debt and other legacy debt also appears etc. It does explain why sponsorship fell so dramatically in one season if Statsports werent adding another wedge, it changes the perspective on whether that owner was as indifferent as they have been called out on. Maybe why there were differences of opinion in the boardroom (when and what the battle of the boardroom still piques interest!!) It was all just bizzare. Its amazing to see how opinions on things have been evolving locally, even that Mad Bill wasnt the maddest of it all!

[Nesta99]

Some parrallels here with when Derry City collapsed- the rules were ignored to get the latest incarnation back in (the licensing deadlines were already gone).

But a few years later when the rogue trader wrecked Galway United and the trust kept them going to the end of the season, the trust were not allowed in.

Inconsistency has always been a feature.

I thought that they werent able to secure tax clearance or come to an arrangement?, thatd be more inconsistency with the revenue than FAI licencing. Not that FAI licencing isnt inconsistant.

[A N Mouse]

I thought that they werent able to secure tax clearance or come to an arrangement?, thatd be more inconsistency with the revenue than FAI licencing. Not that FAI licencing isnt inconsistant.

There was some handwaving over differences in the tax systems/financial years. Along other things. But the whiff of fudge has lessened over the years, only to come back strongly when needed.

The Galway thing was convenient for the fai, with whatever other irons they had in the fire and look how that turned out. The Derry thing was decidedly not, following so closely after Shels.

[2 Year Contract]

Dundalk awarded a licence for 2025.

Pretty cruel stuff from the official LOI Twitter account by clickbating Dundalk fans with the below tweet :D I genuinely thought I was clicking into a link about their licence being refused with the way it was worded!

https://x.com/leagueofireland/status/1864671241870725302?s=46

[oriel]

Seemingly avoiding SCARP also, I knew a deal was done with Revenue last week, but this is even better news now.

Can finally start to look ahead to 2025 and re-build things on and off the pitch.

Regardless of any rivalry, I would genuinely never like to see any LOI club die, banter is one thing (and good fun !!), but all clubs mean a lot to so many and their community, we may be on a different path now, but to still have football and a club to follow every Friday is magic, so its just great news.

What has happened is in the past, no point looking back, the millions, highs of euro nights and away travel, the league titles, won't achieve anything, time to move forward now.

New chapter.

[Yossarian]

It’s good news alright and we can move forward now.
I’d be worried though about the current owner letting Brian Ainscough off the hook completely. He has also apparently taken a swipe at the new supporters trust in his press conference today. Not exactly a sign of someone who wants to engage with the supporters going forward.

[Buckett]

The two years that Galway Utd had out of the League really demonstrated that point Oriel. During our seven year stint in the First Division, even after a defeat, annoying as it was, in the back of my mind was the thought "at least we have a team to support". While we didn't win anything this season, it felt so successful after what we went through.

Delighted that Dundalk got a licence and avoided examinership and SCARP. The League badly needs new teams, not less.

[dundalkfc10]

It’s good news alright and we can move forward now.
I’d be worried though about the current owner letting Brian Ainscough off the hook completely. He has also apparently taken a swipe at the new supporters trust in his press conference today. Not exactly a sign of someone who wants to engage with the supporters going forward.

He seems to have had a go at Brendan Ogle who is on the board of the trust. Ogle has always been a character who would get involved in spats

He's one of the reasons myself and a good few of my mates, havnt signed up for the Trust

[Another Bohemia]

He seems to have had a go at Brendan Ogle who is on the board of the trust. Ogle has always been a character who would get involved in spats

He's one of the reasons myself and a good few of my mates, havnt signed up for the Trust

Hasn't Temple had a go at Dan McDonnell as well? Seems he's also fond of a spat. Congrats on the license but yous would put Corrie to shame with the amount of petty drama at the minute :D any plans for the Christmas episode? It's usually a bumper one