Games weekend 4th to 6th October

[pineapple stu]

Well (a) you didn't mention anything about semi-finals and (b) you should recall UCD playing some decent football when giving Dundalk one heck of a game in the 2018 semi-final. That was a Dundalk side who won the Premier with what was a record points tally (or very close to it), which obviously Drogheda aren't doing.

[redarmyfaction]

Shels look value currently on offer on Betfair @ 6.4 with a small overround so you can can that Ching and a half recent bad form notwithstanding they are 5 clear of Shamrock with equal games played.

[pineapple stu]

Congrats Drogheda in the end - into the Cup final on the same weekend as the playoff final they're heavy favourites to be involved in

[D24Saint]

Bright start for Rovers. Momentum is shifting towards them.

[Martinho II]

Bright start for Rovers. Momentum is shifting towards them.

Great goal from Rovers. Jack Byrne with a great finish from a Neil Ferrugia cross. If Shels arent careful Rovers could be back in the title race.

[TonyD]

Wouldn’t rule out Shels getting an equaliser here.

[Jack B]

Shels are toast.

[pineapple stu]

It's amazing they've led the league so long and are still leading the league, but there has to be a genuine chance they don't get Europe, even if Derry win the Cup

[D24Saint]

Shels are toast.

They just don’t look like a side on a title charge at the moment . I know they have a few missing but they lacked a spark that a side on top normally has tonight.

[Calcio Jack]

Best 90 mins this season by miles from us ( what a difference finally having almost everyone back and match fit).

Special mention for Jack Byrne , Sean Hoare and ( again ) Pohls and also for Coyle who is a thug masquerading as a footballer.

Derry have to be favourites now

[placid casual]

Yeah, you'd have to assume derry will win the league now,but in fairness they haven't exactly shown league winning form in recent weeks - that being said they brushed aside a weak boez side on Friday so confidence should be high.
Rovers played well within themselves but had the measure of shels all night.
As for duffer, get back in your box little man.

[sbgawa]

Massive weekend for Derry coming up two wins and they are title favourites by miles but Bohs need points to avoid a relegation playoff so its not a shoe in and Sligo have a decent record against Derry.
No combination of points from those games would surprise me from 0 to 6..

[sbgawa]

It's amazing they've led the league so long and are still leading the league, but there has to be a genuine chance they don't get Europe, even if Derry win the Cup

There is a genuine chance Shels miss out which would be very harsh considering how long they are at the top.
Felt a bit sorry for Duffer tonight he wass getting loads from Rovers fans and hes never really bothered me, came home to play for us and managed one of our underage teams.

On balance he has been good for the league i think, certainly helps with the clicks

[Acornvilla]

I thought Shels were pretty good, and Rovers were just much better, as they should be. Was interesting to watch the two games back to back, a pretty stark gulf in technical ability between the two as entertaining as the cup 2nd half was.

[legendz]

Shamrock Rovers will probably get to 61 points from here. Derry's final two games are against Pat's and Shels. If Shels can dust themselves down and get back to winning ways, they might need a favour from Pat's in the penultimate round.

[Knocklyonhoop]

Hearing strong rumour he’s gone ??

so O’Donnell relegated Dundalk this season and could do same to Bohs next season? Can only dream……

[sbgawa]

In two weeks time Higgins will either be celebrating a double or possibly sacked.

[Knocklyonhoop]

Shamrock Rovers will probably get to 61 points from here. Derry's final two games are against Pat's and Shels. If Shels can dust themselves down and get back to winning ways, they might need a favour from Pat's in the penultimate round.

Rovers have a poor record in Louth the last few yrs. 61 pts far from guaranteed. Derry have to be favs after Shels likely having the biggest bottler job in how many yrs?

[Shearer]

so O’Donnell relegated Dundalk this season and could do same to Bohs next season? Can only dream……
He could join a prestigious group of managers to have successive relegations that includes *checks notes* Shane Keegan.

[sbgawa]

so O’Donnell relegated Dundalk this season and could do same to Bohs next season? Can only dream……

What makes you think he is waiting for next season ? A couple more wins for Drogs and he could bring both Dundalk and bohs down this season. That would be some Double.

[MeathDrog]

United Park was absolutely jammed. Biggest crowd I've seen in years. And yet the atmosphere for large parts was poor. There was a nervous air about the place. It was obvious we weren't used to being heavy favourites in a big game. Either the nervous atmosphere seeped into the players or vise versa I'm not sure. But we were very poor and robbed Wexford who deserved extra time at the very least. I felt bad for them.

But we're in the final and that's an amazing feat. We will never get a run to the final like that again. The highest ranked team Drogheda have beaten is Dundalk.

[brendy_éire]

Derry have to be favourites now

Shamrock Rovers surely? If they win their last three games, which is probably likely, they'll finish on 61 points.
Are we getting 11 points from 15? Fairly unlikely.

Either way, we've finished on 66 points in 2022, 65 in 2023, and maybe 60 this year. We're going backwards.

I do console myself with the knowledge that winning the cup is better than finishing second in league at least.

[sessylU]

Shamrock Rovers surely? If they win their last three games, which is probably likely, they'll finish on 61 points.


And I know this is might not count for much in the real world and it verges on superstition, but you would surely back them to know how to do this. I'm reminded of an Arsene Wenger line about Ferguson's United: "It is hard to keep the horse from the stable once he has smelled his bed." I've probably misremembered that and butchered it, but the point stands.

[placid casual]

I'd imagine the best case scenario for Rovers to regain the title would be Shels and Derry on the same points and 1 point ahead of Rovers on the last day,and Rovers winning at home while there's a draw in the brandywell, handing the title to Rovers
Derry have +5 goal difference on Rovers so if they're ahead of Rovers by 2 points they should be able to win the title ( assuming shels are not ahead of them in the table).
2 massive games for derry over the weekend,win both and they should have it sewn up.

[sbgawa]

Dont disagre with PC if Derry win both matches this weekend the titel is theres in all likelyhood.
In the year that is in it the title favs winning two matches in a row at home looks like a long shot though :)

[Nesta99]

Yeah, you'd have to assume derry will win the league now,but in fairness they haven't exactly shown league winning form in recent weeks - that being said they brushed aside a weak boez side on Friday so confidence should be high.
Rovers played well within themselves but had the measure of shels all night.
As for duffer, get back in your box little man.

Feels like there hasnt been 'league winning form' for a bunch of years, champions falling over the line and others (Derry) refusing to take chance after chance! Not that Rovers fans will care and I think they will do 5 in a row based on them almost being able to zombie it over the line again as others bottle it, Derry should be favourites but ye cant trust them - if they do win the league and with a cup final also Higgins will say that they peaked to perfection but even a double wont settle all doubts on Higgins. As has been said by St Pats fans, another couple of games in the run in and they look like a side that could have nicked a title and could walk to silverware next season and beyond by double digits - title done by September 2025!!

Has there been a run in and potential last day with so many possible permutations since 94/95? Basement clubs will also have a significant input to the title destination the way fixtures have fallen albeit no Athlone like heroics last day, in Dundalk's case just handing over points but Drogheda could ruin Shels chances, scare Rovers, save Derry.

Just out of curiosity, for those who know how to work it out no matter how unlikely,what would be the odds on Drogheda dropping a couple of points and Dundalk taking all 9 remaining, opposition in mind too, and finishing 9th. I wouldnt put a cent on it, just for the laughs - I doubt bookies would even bother with an actual zombie club like Dundalk currently....

[sbgawa]

Feels like there hasnt been 'league winning form' for a bunch of years, champions falling over the line and others (Derry) refusing to take chance after chance! Not that Rovers fans will care and I think they will do 5 in a row based on them almost being able to zombie it over the line again as others bottle it, Derry should be favourites but ye cant trust them - if they do win the league and with a cup final also Higgins will say that they peaked to perfection but even a double wont settle all doubts on Higgins. As has been said by St Pats fans, another couple of games in the run in and they look like a side that could have nicked a title and could walk to silverware next season and beyond by double digits - title done by September 2025!!

Has there been a run in and potential last day with so many possible permutations since 94/95? Basement clubs will also have a significant input to the title destination the way fixtures have fallen albeit no Athlone like heroics last day, in Dundalk's case just handing over points but Drogheda could ruin Shels chances, scare Rovers, save Derry.

Just out of curiosity, for those who know how to work it out no matter how unlikely,what would be the odds on Drogheda dropping a couple of points and Dundalk taking all 9 remaining, opposition in mind too, and finishing 9th. I wouldnt put a cent on it, just for the laughs - I doubt bookies would even bother with an actual zombie club like Dundalk currently....

Dundalk will probably be at least 3 to 1 for each of their matches and Drogs would be probably something like evens to lose or draw their matchs (odds for individual matchs would vary but talking general averages sp that would work out at 108 to 1 (3 wins for Dundalk and two losses or draws for Drogs)
Would be a bit longer as you have to pick the two out of the 3 results you need from them ......if you were asking me for odds id be offering 150 to 1

Edit: actually its worse i forgot they have 4 mayches left......sorry Nesta but you are in 300 to 1 plus territory..........save the stake money and buy a good map for the discover Ireland tour. I suspect/hope it will be a short enough spell down there so maybe go for a cheapish one :)

[Nesta99]

Yup thougt itd be something ridiculous. It'd be a virtual discover Ireland tour lol, the one good thing about being in the 1st Division, like being in Europe, is getting to visit exotic and interesting places you wouldnt get to otherwise so missing that chance is a kick. As for bouncing back, Im not so sure, it would not be a shock for Finn Harps first ever game in Stranrolar to be v Dundalk opening the 2035 1st Division season!!

[sbgawa]

I wouldnt be that pessimistic
Im assuming the debts are done by a Scarp or by new investors.
One way or the other people arent going to take over the club and assume the debts unless they have the ability to pay them off or write them off.

Starting from scratch you will have bigger crowds and more sponsorship than all the other first division clubs so you should be able to assemble a compeititve squad at FD level to come up straight away even potentially with a 12 point deduction for Scarp...does the FAI rulebook mention Scarp i wonder??? you might escape on a technicality.
The problem will be when you do come up if your ownerss dont have the ability to commit to writing a big cheque you will struggle to be compeititive in the short term, but its not like you havent done it before

[Nesta99]

A quick glance at orielweb shows how united fans are in putting the shoulder to the wheel, how a new new owner has things so in hand he requests no fundraising, that things necessary for lciencing are totally being considered for funding to season end, not at all like some conspiracy by and on owners/FAI/expunnged results settling the league...from this fans perspective its worthy of the old Irish political classic GUBU! even for LoI.

[CorribsideSteve]

Yup thougt itd be something ridiculous. It'd be a virtual discover Ireland tour lol, the one good thing about being in the 1st Division, like being in Europe, is getting to visit exotic and interesting places you wouldnt get to otherwise so missing that chance is a kick. As for bouncing back, Im not so sure, it would not be a shock for Finn Harps first ever game in Stranrolar to be v Dundalk opening the 2035 1st Division season!!

Surely you meant 3035?
On a more serious note, it's tough times for Dundalk. How in God's name could a club like Dundalk go the way of Monaghan, Dublin City and others. It's a very sad state of affairs unfortunately.

[Nesta99]

Surely you meant 3035?
On a more serious note, it's tough times for Dundalk. How in God's name could a club like Dundalk go the way of Monaghan, Dublin City and others. It's a very sad state of affairs unfortunately.

Its probably more a rhetorical question but -
How long is a piece of string in answering that and how long do you want to go back. With no disrespect to the hard working people at the likes of Monaghan, Kilkenny there wasnt a large support and/or catchement to tap in to particularly when things hit the skids financially. Others like Dublin City, Sporting Fingal were...well its hard to know what to call them but say vanity projects by some people who imo underestimated LoI in general never mind the costs. Now how has it (maybe) happened to Dundalk? traditional long term very successful league club with a large catchment and decent hardcore regular support? It's hard to point the finger at anyone beyond ownerships that excluded fan involvement bar as spectators and the divisions, agendas, factions within the club (owners, supporters and reflected by various journalists), but you can point directly at the fans for not being ready to step in, the reasons for that are well worn out in discussion but complacency and with some fatigue after 2012 and the driving forces behind 2012 Trust et al, real experience, talent and grafters no longer being about (work, family committments, abroad, nothing left in the tank to give, deceased sadly in some cases) or absorbed in to the club itself. Currently what Im seeing from a distance never mind in the mix are ongoing disjointed efforts to organise as fans so far, and some very odd behaviour on ownership eg interested parties not getting a look in to be part of solutions. Has any club owner ever asked a supporters club not to fundraise? Seemingly not engaged with business groups while also stressing that viability is being assessed and its not good? Maybe there is a masterplan but the final issue that has contributed to all of this is lack of or faux (essential) communication and engagement on all sorts of levels

[ToberonaTornado]

Really early days imo re Dundalk fans reacting to 1903 and Dundalk trust proposals(which are basically the same).i'm taking a wait and see attitude to both.

The trust crowd haven't yet created an online presence which sits uneasy with me.

Unless you know something different, I can't understand why Temple is involved with the club at all??
One minute he's telling the 1903 sc that fundraising is not essential and the next he's saying the opposite and that he can only fund the 1st team but not the academy teams. Very dodgey

[Nesta99]

Really early days imo re Dundalk fans reacting to 1903 and Dundalk trust proposals(which are basically the same).i'm taking a wait and see attitude to both.

The trust crowd haven't yet created an online presence which sits uneasy with me.

Unless you know something different, I can't understand why Temple is involved with the club at all??
One minute he's telling the 1903 sc that fundraising is not essential and the next he's saying the opposite and that he can only fund the 1st team but not the academy teams. Very dodgey

Nobody knows, but colouring inside the lines, he supposedly lost out to BA about this time last year when the club was sold, the league was going to be a complete clusterfoooook if results were expunged and he is the new owner very quickly even though there were at least 2 other interestted buyers. It is rumoured that BA would only deal with Temple and that this was FAI approved. The other groups, 1, genuine fan/former player led, already talking about scarp, another was US based that had a hand in some past mamangerial appointment but walked away quickly, another led by a consideraby wealthy local but also involved former local owner and there seemed to be issues on legacy debt for BA with that individual (and BA sacKed his brother) so wouldnt play ball. JT ownership at face value so far is that bizzare that there could be a rabbit out of the hat. But everything thing from him fronting significant wealth (mad hatter mega mouth wealth), under BA direction so he still is covertly running things, JT is a FAI man to see Dundalk to seasons end to protect the leagues integrity, to he hasnt a bean but likes being in the limelight....whole bunch of rumour and some conspiracies that would make maga proud also. I think its a brave local man who'd take on the club with litle or nothing behind him to wind the club down, he could manage that if the viability asessment is that its not viable. Why then not involve others, or reject fan emergency generated bridging monies, yet defund aspects of the club that are required to have a 2025 licence. The info given, contradictions, nothings to see here not paying for x, are all smoke and mirrors for one reason or another. Its all seculation in an info vacuum, including what role the investors had/have on how things are being handled. There are certain people that when you hear that they have walked away that its batsh1t bad and that seems to have happened. JT has flexed his legal muscles with LMFM imo unnecessarily when a simple retraction would have done so is that an indication of the type way forward? particularly if a Trust is established in time and willing.

I too will wait and see on who to row in behind in terms of supporter groups (we have soooo much time) but how on earth there are 'rival' groups? If there are 2 groups that can generate income fine but as rival 'bids'...maybe i'd not bother with any if they cant get to the pretty easy common consensus!!

Maybe there should be a banner for P6 at the next game saying 'Do you want our club back'.

*after seeing sbgawa's post on the press box pod maybe posts should be moved to that thread if they can?

[outspoken]

Nobody knows, but colouring inside the lines, he supposedly lost out to BA about this time last year when the club was sold, the league was going to be a complete clusterfoooook if results were expunged and he is the new owner very quickly even though there were at least 2 other interestted buyers. It is rumoured that BA would only deal with Temple and that this was FAI approved. The other groups, 1, genuine fan/former player led, already talking about scarp, another was US based that had a hand in some past mamangerial appointment but walked away quickly, another led by a consideraby wealthy local but also involved former local owner and there seemed to be issues on legacy debt for BA with that individual (and BA sacKed his brother) so wouldnt play ball. JT ownership at face value so far is that bizzare that there could be a rabbit out of the hat. But everything thing from him fronting significant wealth (mad hatter mega mouth wealth), under BA direction so he still is covertly running things, JT is a FAI man to see Dundalk to seasons end to protect the leagues integrity, to he hasnt a bean but likes being in the limelight....whole bunch of rumour and some conspiracies that would make maga proud also. I think its a brave local man who'd take on the club with litle or nothing behind him to wind the club down, he could manage that if the viability asessment is that its not viable. Why then not involve others, or reject fan emergency generated bridging monies, yet defund aspects of the club that are required to have a 2025 licence. The info given, contradictions, nothings to see here not paying for x, are all smoke and mirrors for one reason or another. Its all seculation in an info vacuum, including what role the investors had/have on how things are being handled. There are certain people that when you hear that they have walked away that its batsh1t bad and that seems to have happened. JT has flexed his legal muscles with LMFM imo unnecessarily when a simple retraction would have done so is that an indication of the type way forward? particularly if a Trust is established in time and willing.

I too will wait and see on who to row in behind in terms of supporter groups (we have soooo much time) but how on earth there are 'rival' groups? If there are 2 groups that can generate income fine but as rival 'bids'...maybe i'd not bother with any if they cant get to the pretty easy common consensus!!

Maybe there should be a banner for P6 at the next game saying 'Do you want our club back'.

*after seeing sbgawa's post on the press box pod maybe posts should be moved to that thread if they can?

It's insanity that there are two rivals trusts but from speaking to people at the meeting the other night it sounded like the 1903 just copied and pasted the new trusts structure with a few minor tweaks, that would surely put people off?

[ToberonaTornado]

It's insanity that there are two rivals trusts but from speaking to people at the meeting the other night it sounded like the 1903 just copied and pasted the new trusts structure with a few minor tweaks, that would surely put people off?

Raised a few eyebrows and quite a few stifled chuckles all right.

[Nesta99]

It's insanity that there are two rivals trusts but from speaking to people at the meeting the other night it sounded like the 1903 just copied and pasted the new trusts structure with a few minor tweaks, that would surely put people off?

Yup for sure, but there's the odd person also involved with the new Trust that could put people off. There's plenty to put people off all round if they want to be put off. None of this is easy, if there is a lack of willingness, one way or another, to find common ground then heads need to be knocked together!! That common ground could just to fulfill different roles right now eg 1903 looks at immediate need with eg academy costs, Trust is longer term looking to fan/hybrid ownership, prepping to step in if the club is deemed unviable and to fold, work the rest out when the sword of damocles is no longer hanging. Judgement of Solomon stuff could indicate which group has purely the future of the club in mind and not little fiefdoms. But it is all early stage proposals and not even clear where the club is at publically at least, easy to say but a leap of faith will be needed at some stage and clock is ticking.

[outspoken]

Yup for sure, but there's the odd person also involved with the new Trust that could put people off. There's plenty to put people off all round if they want to be put off. None of this is easy, if there is a lack of willingness, one way or another, to find common ground then heads need to be knocked together!! That common ground could just to fulfill different roles right now eg 1903 looks at immediate need with eg academy costs, Trust is longer term looking to fan/hybrid ownership, prepping to step in if the club is deemed unviable and to fold, work the rest out when the sword of damocles is no longer hanging. Judgement of Solomon stuff could indicate which group has purely the future of the club in mind and not little fiefdoms. But it is all early stage proposals and not even clear where the club is at publically at least, easy to say but a leap of faith will be needed at some stage and clock is ticking.

As someone with no skin in the game the 1903 seem to regularly go on mad solo runs without consulting members, I think of the mental statement they released calling for Ainscough to reverse the decision to appoint King, members weren't consulted and were rightly ****ed off. Now there are taking a vote on what style of membership model they should implement but didn't offer the option to say no membership model. IMO a supporters club are not equipped to run a trust, a SC should be nothing more than a voice for supporters, a vehicle to get volunteers on match day, run fundraisers etc. A trust is a serious business and should be focused solely on raising money to safeguard the future of the club. It's clear that this all comes down to personal rivalries which is sad given the stakes are so high for the future of the club.

[ToberonaTornado]

Tbf to the 1903 sc they gave the option for just retention of the €24 a year annual sub with no add on.

I think they're doing a good job in the circumstances and although they seem a bit rudderless at times they are definitely working hard to make everything right ?

As for personal rivalry really don't think there is any? If it's there then it will be sorted very quickly, nobody will accept that kind of bs at this time.

[Another Bohemia]

IMO a supporters club are not equipped to run a trust, a SC should be nothing more than a voice for supporters, a vehicle to get volunteers on match day, run fundraisers etc.

Genuine question here but what is the difference between a supporters club and a trust? Both would be made up of supporters in this case. A trust would need a larger financial commitment from membership (some supporters clubs do player sponsorships etc so have some financial input from members). There would need to be more financial oversight and likely a different model to vote for treasurer, president etc but converting from a supporters club to a trust you can set these things up the same way you would need to for starting a trust from scratch. Surely converting an existing club that has a solid membership base to a trust makes more sense than trying to start a new entity from scratch? The internal fan politics of Dundalk aside I see no reason a supporters club can't become a trust especially when you consider the speed at which one needs to be formed by Dundalk fans.

[Martinho II]

I know with my club theres a supporters club trust to deal with paying our creditors and the people running it would be independent of the club and not supporters as such.

[Longfordian]

Not sure there's too many left in it at this stage but it did a lot of good work paying off debts. I think the difference to a supporters club is, ideally, you'd have independent trustees who maybe aren't even hardcore supporters but are able to ensure the trust is operated correctly and in accordance with the specified purpose for which it's set up. In our case the money was ringfenced for a specific list of creditors and it wasn't available to the club for anything else.

[legendz]

Longford leading Cobh 1-0 at the break. A Longford win cements 9th for them.

[Nesta99]

Tbf to the 1903 sc they gave the option for just retention of the €24 a year annual sub with no add on.

I think they're doing a good job in the circumstances and although they seem a bit rudderless at times they are definitely working hard to make everything right ?

As for personal rivalry really don't think there is any? If it's there then it will be sorted very quickly, nobody will accept that kind of bs at this time.

I dont know if it is pertinant to the current circumstances but the person who was the original figurehead and driving force behind the 1903 SC didnt seem to remain for that long as more a vocal and foreceful personality seemed to take point quite quickly as thing got going. Notably there was a ladies SC formed soon after, Im pretty sure by the original 1903 founder, dont know if its still going, there must have been some diffrences of opinion but maybe were settled. The chap that was very quick to become the voice of the 1903 SC, Outspoken mentions a statement released without consultation and solo runs, he is now with the new Trust group, did he speak on their behalf at the SC meeting recently? Maybe Im barking up the wrong tree but itd be a reasonable guess that lines drawn in the sand could be rooted in the previous manoeuvre to front and centre. I can see why there'd be some rivalry or personality clashes, resistance to percieved or legit fear of railroading but its not the time to dig in. I dont doubt that there is lots of hard work by all regardless.