Finland v Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 10th October 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[ifk101]

I didn’t think we were great. We had about 25-30 mins of good play on the night with that good play coming from upping the tempo post a half time chat, and taking encouragement and momentum from individuals having a go. Collectively we were disjointed as didn’t really see patterns in our play, unclear what we wanted to do with the ball beyond passing it to the next guy. It was slow and laboured. Lots of examples of players receiving the ball static and not knowing what to do with it. There was constant need to look up and around to see where teammates were, and there were plenty of glances towards the bench looking for guidance. A well-coached team knows where teammates are, what runs they should be making, the purpose of our play. That’s not us.

That said, extremely happy with the win – it’s a big result as it should mean we avoid relegation. And it is something to build on. Who knows – win in Greece and we have put ourselves in the promotion hunt.

[Eirambler]

Collectively we were disjointed as didn’t really see patterns in our play, unclear what we wanted to do with the ball beyond passing it to the next guy. It was slow and laboured. Lots of examples of players receiving the ball static and not knowing what to do with it. There was constant need to look up and around to see where teammates were, and there were plenty of glances towards the bench looking for guidance. A well-coached team knows where teammates are, what runs they should be making, the purpose of our play. That’s not us.



I think that takes time though, the players are still learning what the new manager wants. And they're so used to the lateral short passing nonsense after four years of it under Kenny and O'Shea/McCarthy, that it's too easy for them to naturally fall back to that during quiet periods in the game.

What we need as a team is to be pretty much constantly looking to go forward, because we have pace in the team and physical strength up front, even if that means we cough up possession sometimes as a result. We just don't have the technical players to play the other way, even if it is the more fashionable way to play the game at the moment. It's just not us, and the danger when we fall back into that is that someone does something ridiculous like Collins did for the first goal - because pretty much all of our defenders and midfielders are technically limited enough that they're capable of doing something like that.

[ifk101]

I think that takes time though, the players are still learning what the new manager wants.

Yes, but the head coach has been there the guts of two years now. Still very much O’Shea’s stamp on that team, Azaz starting was an O’Shea decision for example.

The Collins goal. That’s bad coaching rather a technical ability failing. It came about from a passage of play starting with our throw in. O’Shea throws it to Collins, Collins passes it back. O’Shea stands on the ball for 5 seconds looking to play it but there is no movement, everybody is just standing looking around so he gives it back to Collins because there is no other option. Collins moves it onto Scales who moves it back – again because there is no other option. Collins gets put under a bit of pressure, loses composure, perhaps knowing he had no out ball other than back to Kelleher – and goal. Sure, Collins made a huge individual mistake but ultimately it was the failing of a badly coached team.

[jbyrne]

Yes, but the head coach has been there the guts of two years now. Still very much O’Shea’s stamp on that team, Azaz starting was an O’Shea decision for example.

The Collins goal. That’s bad coaching rather a technical ability failing. It came about from a passage of play starting with our throw in. O’Shea throws it to Collins, Collins passes it back. O’Shea stands on the ball for 5 seconds looking to play it but there is no movement, everybody is just standing looking around so he gives it back to Collins because there is no other option. Collins moves it onto Scales who moves it back – again because there is no other option. Collins gets put under a bit of pressure, loses composure, perhaps knowing he had no out ball other than back to Kelleher – and goal. Sure, Collins made a huge individual mistake but ultimately it was the failing of a badly coached team.

what pressure was he under that led to that mistake? If anything he looked far too casual, not the actions of someone who felt under pressure.

[ifk101]

what pressure was he under that led to that mistake? If anything he looked far too casual, not the actions of someone who felt under pressure.

Kamara and the striker were pushing up and closing space. Collins saw that and was signalling to Scales to play it back to Kelleher. As he was signalling pass it back to Kelleher, he lost composure when Scales played it to him knowing the striker was pushing up and he had no out balls (other than back to Kelleher). Yes agree, Collins was too casual and the individual mistake is his (not his first mistake from being too casual in an Irish jersey btw). But my point is, there should have been out balls throughout the passage of play and the situation Collins found himself in should not have unfolded.

[pineapple stu]

Still very much O’Shea’s stamp on that team, Azaz starting was an O’Shea decision for example.
Was it? Before the match it was suggested Azaz starting was a HH decision because he was left out of the last squad entirely (which was supposed to be JOS' squad). I don't think both of those can be true.

[tetsujin1979]

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[pineapple stu]

That sounds about right. Jamie McGrath (never played a first-team game for us, granted), Andy Boyle, Conor Sammon and Enda Stevens all yet to score an international goal. Jason Byrne never managed one either. Moran is the only player to play for UCD and score for Ireland - though Peter Lorimer (Scotland), David Norman (Canada) and Kaleem Simon (Montserrat) have managed the feat for other countries. Lorimer did it the other way around though - scored his international goal before coming to UCD.

[ifk101]

Was it? Before the match it was suggested Azaz starting was a HH decision because he was left out of the last squad entirely (which was supposed to be JOS' squad). I don't think both of those can be true.

Let’s take HH for his word. He does come across as straight talking, honest and genuine, and my statement that Azaz starting was O’Shea’s decision is therefore wrong. But context. O’Shea has made no secret of his admiration for Azaz. He knows of him since the U21s and it was O’Shea that gave Azaz his senior debut. HH is not up to speed on the players and has publicly stated he is leaning on the knowledge of O’Shea. And a replacement for Smallbone was needed.

[Eirambler]

I'd be amazed if O'Shea is making any significant decisions to be honest. His role seems to be limited to helping with training and the odd press conference or interview. I don't think he actually has much more than that in his locker. It was almost definitely Paddy McCarthy that was calling the shots between Kenny's departure and the England game - you could see it in the breaks in play, he was the tactical genius that had them set up like that and was doing all the talking. He seems to have been relegated in terms of his importance now and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear that he's moving on/focusing full time on his club role in the coming months.

O'Shea will stay on as a loyal number 2 and do what is asked of him by HH. He won't rock the boat and seems popular with the suits, but I think it's a stretch to suggest he's behind any setup or selection decisions that are made.

[pineapple stu]

But context. O’Shea has made no secret of his admiration for Azaz. He knows of him since the U21s and it was O’Shea that gave Azaz his senior debut. HH is not up to speed on the players and has publicly stated he is leaning on the knowledge of O’Shea. And a replacement for Smallbone was needed.
OK - but how do you account for O'Shea leaving Azaz out of the squad entirely last month? It's rare for a player to go from not being in the squad one window to starting the next window; a replacement for Smallbone should logically have been someone in the last squad (otherwise what would have happened last month if we'd needed to replace Smallbone?).

[Stuttgart88]

My quick take

• Great to finally win
• First half was too slow and we showed them too much respect. Collins’ error was awful but it happens. Worrying that he made a near calamitous error in second half too though
• I was chatting among friends at HT and we were all discussing what worked, what didn’t and what we’d change. I was almost ready to hook Brady!
• But the change in tempo was all that was needed at least initially
• Credit to HH – half time really did see a change and the win really did have his own stamp on it as the substitutions were key; I did think thoough that the game was crying out for Mikey J and I think he was unlucky not to come on
• I thought at 1-1 that a lucky team or a team in the habit of winning would go on to win it. We were definitely lucky - the Kamara effort and the back post header usually go in against us
• I think HH will have learnt a lot from the game too, though I think there are still are a few positions still up for grabs. Azaz didn't nail down his spot at all, and maybe Festy offers the pace that Ogbene is being picked for...
• I think HH’s soundbites are on the money: winning (and losing) is a habit, the natural cohesion that comes from training and playing together must get better and we must believe in ourselves more. Yesterday was a small step in the right direction on all counts
• Scales (one error in second minute) looked the PL player yesterday, not Collins!

[Stuttgart88]

Great to win,unfortunately Greece look to have beaten England ….

It's never unfortunate to see England beaten! Carsley is squirming today.

[ifk101]

OK - but how do you account for O'Shea leaving Azaz out of the squad entirely last month? It's rare for a player to go from not being in the squad one window to starting the next window; a replacement for Smallbone should logically have been someone in the last squad (otherwise what would have happened last month if we'd needed to replace Smallbone?).


Larger squads for the O’Shea friendlies (26 players), smaller for the NL games – game squads restricted to 23 players. No apparent like for like replacement for Smallbone in the England/ Greece squad imo.

[Stuttgart88]

I saw this Ireland team tonight repeatedly winning the ball back in midfield and then look to get it straight to a free man in an attacking position. Very positive stuff. Give Halgrimsson credit.

Both can be true - HH can be lucky and deserve credit! I too was impressed by the quick winning the ball back and quick, positive use of it afterwards. HH's prints are all over that.

[CraftyToePoke]

Larger squads for the O’Shea friendlies (26 players), smaller for the NL games – game squads restricted to 23 players. No apparent like for like replacement for Smallbone in the England/ Greece squad imo.

Naw, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. HH watched Middlesbrough recently and picked the player & its that simple. And I don't think an O'Shea squad drops Doherty / Browne etc in a fit either.

[ifk101]

Both can be true - HH can be lucky and deserve credit! I too was impressed by the quick winning the ball back and quick, positive use of it afterwards. HH's prints are all over that.

I’m not as enthusiastic as you are Stuttgart. Think they had the better of the first half which was a tough watch from our perspective. We had a good 5 minutes at the end of first, good 15 minutes after the break, and ended well with Ebosele’s introduction. Thought Finland were shading it between 60 – 85 minutes, Kamara missed a sitter (thankfully) and they had a very good opportunity from a headed free kick that just went wide during that period of the game. We lost momentum a bit with the Parrot/ Idah introductions imo. But I’m more than happy with the result, and as said in an earlier post, it’s something to build on.


Naw, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. HH watched Middlesbrough recently and picked the player & its that simple. And I don't think an O'Shea squad drops Doherty / Browne etc in a fit either.

Ah, I think I'm barking up the right one :-)

[liamoo11]

The Ogbene/Ebosele thing is interesting and they give us good options on the right. I feel like both could be better as impact subs, but it's good to have the ability to have one of them running at a defence for an hour to tire them out and then the other coming on to finish them off. So for Greece there might be merit to starting Ebosele and then bringing on Ogbene. But then that could change around again in future games.

When you see the quality Ebosele produced off his left for the cross for Brady maybe left side is also an option for him

[liamoo11]

I'd be amazed if O'Shea is making any significant decisions to be honest. His role seems to be limited to helping with training and the odd press conference or interview. I don't think he actually has much more than that in his locker. It was almost definitely Paddy McCarthy that was calling the shots between Kenny's departure and the England game - you could see it in the breaks in play, he was the tactical genius that had them set up like that and was doing all the talking. He seems to have been relegated in terms of his importance now and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear that he's moving on/focusing full time on his club role in the coming months.

O'Shea will stay on as a loyal number 2 and do what is asked of him by HH. He won't rock the boat and seems popular with the suits, but I think it's a stretch to suggest he's behind any setup or selection decisions that are made.

Yeah I agree what we see with the grace game and last night is O shea been sidelined from the tactical side and in the setup for the media and goodwill side. O shea s team was the England team set up a a 5 2 3 with the 2 wide players really stretched. For the Greece and last nights games we have seen a far more compact set up with us in a narrow 442 filling spaces centrally and offering up the width completely opposite to how we set up.under o shea in all his friendly games and against england

[Stuttgart88]

There’s a post from years and years ago that stands out for me on foot.ie. Billsthoughts brought a Brazilian friend to Ireland v Brazil at Croker (2006?) and his mate observed that what we played didn’t resemble normal football. And I think this was under Stan where the philosophy was actually quite progressive by our standards. For an hour last night we did resemble a normal modern functioning football team. And I think HH deserves credit. He said himself it was Jekyll & Hyde so it was honest in recognising the flaws, but I’m starting to think he sees, he understands and he is developing a plan.

I think it was Pineappler who ran a Ireland’s best ever goal competition here a few years ago. Lockdown-era? In my opinion Brady’s goal was actually among the more-telegenic goals we’ve ever scored. Festy’s escape from his markers, the floated cross, Brady’s first touch (magnificent) and a volley into the roof of the net (roof of net can only be beaten by a thunder******* that hits the underside of the bar!). Just lovely. There was a photo on social media afterwards of Brady's follow through and it was balance and technique perfection. The pic reminded me of the legendary photo of Sheedy striking the ball to score in Cagliari.

Unpopular question though: did Festy actually pick out Brady or was it just a well floated ball into a good area? I like how he played a different ball to Parrott shortly afterwards, suggesting he has good vision & good decision making.

[passinginterest]

I missed the first half hour so though we looked the better team for the majority of what I saw. They did have a good spell when we go a bit nervy after equalising but we looked better on the ball and more likely to create chances. It was great to see Festy produce something this time. In his previous, albeit limited, opportunities he looked like a deer in the headlights and had some awful touches and made poor choices. If he takes that sort of form into the rest of the season then he can be a serious weapon. Similarities to Chieo (who had some good moments too, delivered a great cross that Ferguson should have got a head to) but possibly a higher ceiling.

Ferguson starting and playing so many minutes was probably the strangest choice in the selection, maybe he's regained some form in training so he looks the part again, but he was well off the pace in the game. There was a few times when he had touches around the box that he'd have gotten dangerous shots away early last season but he was a bit ponderous. I do think it's good that he's coming back slowly and being protected more by his club, there's still the makings of a great player there, but I think Parrot should have gotten more time and Idah is probably still just ahead at the moment. Happy for Brady to get the goal, I don't think his effort is ever really in doubt even if he can be a bit exposed at full back.

Would expect to see Azaz and Ferguson replaced in the team for Greece. Collins maybe should have the captaincy taken away for his poor mistakes, but maybe that's knocking a relatively young player a bit too much when he's probably already down. Presumably Molumby or Taylor will start to inject a bit more energy and defensive stability and I'd like to see Parrot get a start but more likely it will be Idah if Ferguson is left out.

[Olé Olé]

I really want Ferguson to start Sunday. I thought he showed glimpses last night of himself and that the 90mins will have done him good. I think he could be effective against Greece and a start would equally give him a platform thereafter.

[SkStu]

what pressure was he under that led to that mistake? If anything he looked far too casual, not the actions of someone who felt under pressure.

Agreed. I dont even think it was too casual, i think he just didn't connect with the ball properly.

I thought we were great in the second half. Night and day. The good moments we had in the 1st half moving the ball quickly and playing moderate risk, high reward balls through their press was ramped up - and our press was way more effective too. Sure, they had chances and there were moments we didnt help ourselves but we were so much better overall. And won from behind. Credit to HH and the team. Still more to do.

[Acornvilla]

I really want Ferguson to start Sunday. I thought he showed glimpses last night of himself and that the 90mins will have done him good. I think he could be effective against Greece and a start would equally give him a platform thereafter.
I kind of feel the opposite way, I'd be worried 2 starts in 3/4 days will break him. 20/30 min cameo might be for the best, still some minutes, but not overloading him.

[tetsujin1979]

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[pineapple stu]

Unpopular question though: did Festy actually pick out Brady or was it just a well floated ball into a good area?
Looking at it, I think he can see Brady making the run. Not sure there's a huge difference between the two options though - do the right thing and good things will happen, and that's what transpired.

I will say if we'd conceded that goal, we'd have been rightly ****ed off at the two defenders who had the attacker in the corner, and then gave not one collective ****e between them after that. Their problem though, not ours, and the move after that was lovely.

The game feels a bit like two steps forward one step back. Which is an improvement on recent times! It's a win of course. Finland aren't great but that's not hugely important; plenty of not great sides have beaten us recently. Festy made a much bigger impression than on his previous caps, and UCD showed their pivotal importance to football in Ireland, which is always welcome! But Collins and Ferguson are causes for concern; Collins has too many howlers in him while it's nearly a year since Ferguson scored a goal. We still rely too much on set pieces for goals too.

Sunday a different proposition - can't see us getting anything in Greece given they just won in England. That would have us flirting with relegation League C for the fourth campaign in a row; we can't afford to lose at home against Finland in November. But stranger things have happened!

[Stuttgart88]

Agreed. I dont even think it was too casual, i think he just didn't connect with the ball properly.

I thought we were great in the second half. Night and day. The good moments we had in the 1st half moving the ball quickly and playing moderate risk, high reward balls through their press was ramped up - and our press was way more effective too. Sure, they had chances and there were moments we didnt help ourselves but we were so much better overall. And won from behind. Credit to HH and the team. Still more to do.Agreed on the overall assessment.

On the Collins mistake - I think he got confused about whether to control the ball or pass it back and sadly did a bit of both, or neither. I remember once as a goalkeeper I was about to roll the ball to a teammate, then inexplicably changed my mind mid-movement and tried to stop, and instead the ball just dribbled out of my hand straight to a forward's feet. I think there was a bit of that in Collins last night.

I've no idea what he was thinking when he took a simple catch away from Kelleher.

[Insidetherock]

Looking at it, I think he can see Brady making the run. Not sure there's a huge difference between the two options though - do the right thing and good things will happen, and that's what transpired.

I will say if we'd conceded that goal, we'd have been rightly ****ed off at the two defenders who had the attacker in the corner, and then gave not one collective ****e between them after that. Their problem though, not ours, and the move after that was lovely.

The game feels a bit like two steps forward one step back. Which is an improvement on recent times! It's a win of course. Finland aren't great but that's not hugely important; plenty of not great sides have beaten us recently. Festy made a much bigger impression than on his previous caps, and UCD showed their pivotal importance to football in Ireland, which is always welcome! But Collins and Ferguson are causes for concern; Collins has too many howlers in him while it's nearly a year since Ferguson scored a goal. We still rely too much on set pieces for goals too.

Sunday a different proposition - can't see us getting anything in Greece given they just won in England. That would have us flirting with relegation League C for the fourth campaign in a row; we can't afford to lose at home against Finland in November. But stranger things have happened!

Was interesting to hear Richard Dunne talk last night on VM about Collins not being a mature CB until 26/27.. perhaps he's right

Tony Adams picked up the "donkey" moniker early in his career, and never shook it, but anyone who says he was a poor CB, is a fool..

Collins is still a baby in pro football terms..

Same for Ferguson, lads writing him off at 19.. ffs

He's more PL goals at 19 than Harry Kane had.. hopefully he'll develop

Same with Parrott.. he could end up Eerdivise top scorer this year, and some will still moan about how he "didn't make it at Spurs as a teenager"

We've the skeleton of a good team..

Probably need one big man to anchor the middle.. and someone to add a spark on the ball..

But reality is, we've a choice of two PL goalies, 3/4 PL CBs, 3/4 PL players around the pitch.. and other players playing the top end of the Championship

With a good coach, and one sprinkle of stardust .. we're in business

Look at Georgia.. people still look down their nose at them, but they're topping their group, and just finished a Euros

Last night, we were lucky.. but so was Jack Charlton with Gary Mc Kay.. sometimes it just takes that tiny bit of luck, to make a difference

We're going to be in a relegation play off, but looking at the teams currently 2nd in Path C, we should be able to cling onto B status

The WC is a huge ask.. but lads, if we'd a decent, competitive team for the home Euros in 28.. I'd bite your hand off for it right now

[Eirambler]

The second place team in the Sweden/Slovakia group would be the big risk for that relegation playoff. That's the horror draw, so we're pretty much guaranteed to get it. The other most likely second place teams from C will be Kosovo, Armenia and one out of Belarus, Bulgaria and the north. All teams we shouldn't be losing to over two legs, even in our current state.

[pineapple stu]

Same for Ferguson, lads writing him off at 19.. ffs

Same with Parrott.. he could end up Eerdivise top scorer this year, and some will still moan about how he "didn't make it at Spurs as a teenager"
Who's writing him them off? That sort of hyperbole isn't really helpful.

There can hardly be any doubt the last year has been a big disappointment for Ferguson in particular though.

[John83]

Who's writing him them off? That sort of hyperbole isn't really helpful.

There can hardly be any doubt the last year has been a big disappointment for Ferguson in particular though.
Not many - most are just acknowledging he's having a hard time - but there was a post the other day that said he needs to knuckle down or he'll be playing L1/2 in a few years. That seems a very pessimistic assessment to me, though it's probably a healthy thing to have some variety of opinion around.

[tetsujin1979]

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