Terrace Pest article Rovers Programme V Shels

[CollegeTillIDie]

This was published in the Hoops Scene Vol. 14 for their match V Shelbourne recently. I will retype it in full and then attack some of the points I disagree with. It must be said I don't disagree with all of it just some sections of it. Here goes:

The Terrace Pest Writes
When a Politician or senior civil servant releases a suggestion into the public domain in order to see the reaction, it is often said that he/she is 'flying a kite'. Such kites are generally 'flown' when the government attempts to solve a tricky problem in a manner which some may see as controversial.

There have been a few kites flown in relation to our troubled League recently.
One suggestion which crops up from time to time is that the big four Dublin clubs- Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's should merge into two clubs, one based on the northside of the city and one based on the southside.

The thinking behind this is that two newly marketed clubs would be able to attract wider support than the four existing clubs have done over recent years. There can be no denying that crowds at soccer fixtures have been plummeting in the capital recently, with none of the four big clubs attracting regular attendances of over 2,000. However, merging the clubs would not improve the situation and would spell the end for Dublin soccer.

Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's are four clubs with a strong tradition behind them and despite what the sceptics say, this is a hugely important factor. It is, of course true that every club has to start somewhere,but take one look at Dublin City F.C. and it should be obvious that renaming failed institutions is not the answer to small attendances.

Indeed, far from offering a fresh alternative to the Dublin public, it could be argued that Dublin City has merely compounded the problems facing senior soccer in the city. If the four 'big' Dublin clubs are struggling, why was a new club based in the city allowed to further dilute the market. It is the opinion of many that neither Dublin City of UCD should ever have been allowed into the League of Ireland. Neither club attracts any significant support base and their presence in the League only gives weight to the impression that the Eircom League is a glorified Dublin League. When you consider that Bray and Drogheda are not exactly a million miles from Dublin, surely Dublin City and UCD's space in the League would be better taken up by rural clubs.

If four big clubs were to merge along geographical lines, it would make sense for Rovers and Pat's to form a southside club, with Bohs and Shels forming a North Dublin F.C. Shels are of course traditionally a southside club but they have been playing North of the Liffey for some time now and this appears where they wish to be based.

Far from re-invigorating the league, this move would simply kill off all interest in the game. The exisiting supporters of the four clubs would not switch allegiances and the greater Dublin public would not be interested in such a contrived move. The result would be that no one would attend games.

Dublin is a city of 1.5 million , which is more than enough to sustain four big clubs. All it would take is for just over 2% of the Dublin public to take an
interest in live football and Rovers, Pat's, Shels and Bohs would have 40,000 supporters to fight over. That less than one per cent of the Dublin public attends live football makes a mockery of any claim that Dubliners are 'obsessed' with football. That is the problem in a nutshell.
Of course there are serious problems with how football is administered and presented in Ireland- this column has made the point several times that Irish football is its own worst enemy- but it is not possible to bring the sport in Ireland forward until the Irish people show a willingness to support it. Even if we did have only two clubs in Dublin, with less than one per cent attending games that would still result in crowds of 7,000 each, not exactly a huge figure.

What Dublin needs isn't less football clubs, it's more football fans.

[Troy.McClure]

I think thats a fair opinion piece.

[Buller]

I thought that was a very good piece but i was too lazy to type it all out... :o
There were other deadly articals in that program, well worth the money...

[CollegeTillIDie]

There have been a few kites flown in relation to our troubled League recently.
One suggestion which crops up from time to time is that the big four Dublin clubs- Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's should merge into two clubs, one based on the northside of the city and one based on the southside.

The thinking behind this is that two newly marketed clubs would be able to attract wider support than the four existing clubs have done over recent years. There can be no denying that crowds at soccer fixtures have been plummeting in the capital recently, with none of the four big clubs attracting regular attendances of over 2,000. However, merging the clubs would not improve the situation and would spell the end for Dublin soccer.

I agree that mergers would not work, so far so good.

Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's are four clubs with a strong tradition behind them and despite what the sceptics say, this is a hugely important factor. It is, of course true that every club has to start somewhere,but take one look at Dublin City F.C. and it should be obvious that renaming failed institutions is not the answer to small attendances.

Yes the so called big four do have traditions and histories etc.
As Rovers fan and journo George Byrne once said " You can change your wife, you can change your mother, but you can never change your team!"
The second part of the paragraph continues the Dublin City F.C. as continuity Home Farm concept which I can see some logic in .

Indeed, far from offering a fresh alternative to the Dublin public, it could be argued that Dublin City has merely compounded the problems facing senior soccer in the city. If the four 'big' Dublin clubs are struggling, why was a new club based in the city allowed to further dilute the market.

Dublin City effectively replaced Home Farm who in 1972 effectively replaced Drumcondra who had been in the league since the late 1920's. This slot was always in the League. In fact in the first season of the League all 8 teams were Dublin clubs. You could argue that there are less Dublin Clubs nowadays with a larger population base than there were 80 years ago.

It is the opinion of many that neither Dublin City of UCD should ever have been allowed into the League of Ireland. Neither club attracts any significant support base and their presence in the League only gives weight to the impression that the Eircom League is a glorified Dublin League. When you consider that Bray and Drogheda are not exactly a million miles from Dublin, surely Dublin City and UCD's space in the League would be better taken up by rural clubs.

UCD were elected into the League precisely because Cork Celtic , one of your rural clubs, were an administrative shambles and a mere five years after winning the Championship went bankrupt. This came three years after the other big Cork club of the 1960's and early 1970's Cork Hibernians went bust five years exactly after winning the Championship. Just because you have a red neck doesn't mean you know how to run an elite football club.
We are the best run small club in the League. We have never gone bust, never failed to pay our players and never had League points deducted for either player registration C*** ups or financial ones! Not to mention the fact that very few clubs in the EL do not have an ex UCD player on their books now.

If four big clubs were to merge along geographical lines, it would make sense for Rovers and Pat's to form a southside club, with Bohs and Shels forming a North Dublin F.C. Shels are of course traditionally a southside club but they have been playing North of the Liffey for some time now and this appears where they wish to be based.

Well if a merger were to have taken place someone should have merged with Dublin City. They have sold 30,000 jerseys in the past 12 months which is 300 times their average home attendance. Ronan Seery is a marketing wizard.
Another sensible merger would have been Shelbourne and Shamrock Rovers merging in the 1900's . Ringsend United and they could have played in Irishtown Stadium. Any other mergers would have been ridiculous.
What might make sense would be some longer term ground sharing arrangements but fans do not wish to consider that.


Far from re-invigorating the league, this move would simply kill off all interest in the game. The exisiting supporters of the four clubs would not switch allegiances and the greater Dublin public would not be interested in such a contrived move. The result would be that no one would attend games.


Yes well new mergers without a soul don't work. However sometimes they happen out of necessity. In Belgrade for example 2004/05 Serbian Cup winners Zeleznik had to withdraw from the UEFA Cup for financial reasons and ended up merging with a solvent second division Belgrade outfit called Vozdovac. Now Vozdovac( incorporating Zeleznik) play in the Top Division in Zeleznik's stadium as Vozdovac.

Dublin is a city of 1.5 million , which is more than enough to sustain four big clubs. All it would take is for just over 2% of the Dublin public to take an
interest in live football and Rovers, Pat's, Shels and Bohs would have 40,000 supporters to fight over. That less than one per cent of the Dublin public attends live football makes a mockery of any claim that Dubliners are 'obsessed' with football. That is the problem in a nutshell.

Irish people and Dubliners in particular are " event junkies". Witness last season when 24,000 packed into Lansdowne Road to watch Shels take on Deportivo. Their next home game attracted fewer than 3,000. Apart from the other EL fans who attended the game in Lansdowne Road which would account for at most half the 24,000 where did the other 12,000 disappear to?
Even in GAA the Dubs can barely fill 10,000 capacity Parnell Park for National League games. Come the Championship and they stuff Croker. Where are the other 70,000 the rest of the year?


Of course there are serious problems with how football is administered and presented in Ireland- this column has made the point several times that Irish football is its own worst enemy- but it is not possible to bring the sport in Ireland forward until the Irish people show a willingness to support it. Even if we did have only two clubs in Dublin, with less than one per cent attending games that would still result in crowds of 7,000 each, not exactly a huge figure.

What Dublin needs isn't less football clubs, it's more football fans.
Well I agree wholeheartedly with the final paragraph of this piece.

[pineapple stu]

You'll have to try that again, CTID! Use [/QUOTE] to end a quote.

[Dr.Nightdub]

What might make sense would be some longer term ground sharing arrangements but fans do not wish to consider that.

That's only partially true.

Bohs - from what I've read here and on the Bohs MB, some are dead against Shels (the most logical partners) going anywhere near Dalymount. On the other hand, some can see the benefit of Shels moving in and doing up the Connaught St side of the ground.

Shels - initially, fans seemed hostile to the idea of moving out to Donabate or wherever it was that was mooted. The logical implication being that they wouldn't mind going to Dalymount. The whole Donabate debate seems to have gone quiet recently. Maybe some of the Shels fans can clarify.

Rovers - with the benefit of 18 year's expertise in groundsharing, they'd probably argue that it's the work of the devil (Satan, not Louis). Not surprisingly, the majority would probably want Tallaght for themselves but seeing as the SDCC will own the ground, they may not have much say in the matter.

Pats - opinion re leaving Richmond is divided between "over my dead body" and seeing potential benefits, but in the short term, both the club and the fans are more focussed on the development of Richmond. As I said in the other thread about us groundsharing, the most internse opposition to us sharing Tallaght would most likely come, not from Pats fans, but from all the rest of the clubs in the League.

[sullanefc]

We are the best run small club in the League. We have never gone bust, never failed to pay our players and never had League points deducted for either player registration C*** ups or financial ones! Not to mention the fact that very few clubs in the EL do not have an ex UCD player on their books now.

Maybe the reason you have never gone bust is because you are subsidised by the college?

[bigmac]

I agree with the general gist of the piece once you remove the usual UCD/DC add nothing to the league bits. As far as I'm concerned, if they manage to survive in the premier then they deserve their place. The reason that a club like City can survive is because for Dublin area players (who are the largest proportion of players, simply cos Dublin is so big) it's more attractive to remain in Dublin and play with a smaller team than move lock stock and barrel to Derry/ Galway/Limerick etc... I am of the firm belief that a team cannot perform to its potential if most of its players are based a hundred miles away and training with other clubs. One or two in a team is workable (Clive Delaney) but in general it's a bad idea.
IMO the only way forward for getting more teams from outside the Pale is if these teams can develop local talent in a way that EL teams have not been doing up to now, with the notable exception of UCD.

[anto eile]

1: Shels - initially, fans seemed hostile to the idea of moving out to Donabate or wherever it was that was mooted. The logical implication being that they wouldn't mind going to Dalymount. The whole Donabate debate seems to have gone quiet recently. Maybe some of the Shels fans can clarify.

2: Rovers - with the benefit of 18 year's expertise in groundsharing, they'd probably argue that it's the work of the devil (Satan, not Louis). Not surprisingly, the majority would probably want Tallaght for themselves but seeing as the SDCC will own the ground, they may not have much say in the matter.



1: reds independent fans group were campaigning against the move.then irelands number one had a private meeting with the r.i. fans group.and they comletely changed their opinion on the move..not telling any other shels fans why

2: satan never did anything to deserve being mentioned in the same sentence that evil louis ****

[anto eile]

dublin city farm is a franchise.anyone who supports such an entity is not a football fan

[Student Mullet]

dublin city farm is a franchise.anyone who supports such an entity is not a football fan
I think that's the whole point of the article. Even DC have some background. A merged Northside or Southside team would be a complete contrivance which no football fan would support.

[Poor Student]

Maybe the reason you have never gone bust is because you are subsidised by the college?

We spend within our start of year budget, not have our shortfalls made up. That's a combination of an annual grant from the college, fundraising (e.g. the UCD Supeprleague) and usual activities (e.g. merchandise sales, ticket sales, player sales, sponsorship, media rights, prize money). We're simply a well run club, end of story. Dublin City and UCD don't step on anyone's turf or divide resources. If you were to go with the argument that all our regular fans are ones stolen which the other clubs could have had and put our combined support at 600 that a mere 150 extra fans for each other club.

[sullanefc]

How much is the grant from the college?

[Poor Student]

How much is the grant from the college?

No idea. But it's layed out at the start, not something to make up shortfalling budgets. Unlike the likes of Waterford we can actually budget.

[pineapple stu]

I think the grant is less than 10% of our turnover. Given our turnover is one of the smallest in the Premier, that's not very big. The idea that the grant (subsidy from the college, as you call it) is why we don't go broke is nonsense. Teams with more money don't become more fiscally responsible. The club is well run - and has to meet stringent internal financial criteria as well, I think - no more than that.

[Aberdonian Stu]

The grant from the college is less than 10 per cent of turnover and just to address another one of the usual inaccuarate comments on our club before it's made the scholarship schemem is funded by private donations not by the state or the HEA.

[BohDiddley]

This was published in the Hoops Scene Vol. 14 for their match V Shelbourne recently. I will retype it in full and then attack some of the points I disagree with. It must be said I don't disagree with all of it just some sections of it. Here goes:

The Terrace Pest Writes
When a Politician or senior civil servant releases a suggestion into the public domain in order to see the reaction, it is often said that he/she is 'flying a kite'. Such kites are generally 'flown' when the government attempts to solve a tricky problem in a manner which some may see as controversial.

There have been a few kites flown in relation to our troubled League recently.
One suggestion which crops up from time to time is that the big four Dublin clubs- Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's should merge into two clubs, one based on the northside of the city and one based on the southside.

The thinking behind this is that two newly marketed clubs would be able to attract wider support than the four existing clubs have done over recent years. There can be no denying that crowds at soccer fixtures have been plummeting in the capital recently, with none of the four big clubs attracting regular attendances of over 2,000. However, merging the clubs would not improve the situation and would spell the end for Dublin soccer.

Rovers, Shels, Bohs and Pat's are four clubs with a strong tradition behind them and despite what the sceptics say, this is a hugely important factor. It is, of course true that every club has to start somewhere,but take one look at Dublin City F.C. and it should be obvious that renaming failed institutions is not the answer to small attendances.

Indeed, far from offering a fresh alternative to the Dublin public, it could be argued that Dublin City has merely compounded the problems facing senior soccer in the city. If the four 'big' Dublin clubs are struggling, why was a new club based in the city allowed to further dilute the market. It is the opinion of many that neither Dublin City of UCD should ever have been allowed into the League of Ireland. Neither club attracts any significant support base and their presence in the League only gives weight to the impression that the Eircom League is a glorified Dublin League. When you consider that Bray and Drogheda are not exactly a million miles from Dublin, surely Dublin City and UCD's space in the League would be better taken up by rural clubs.

If four big clubs were to merge along geographical lines, it would make sense for Rovers and Pat's to form a southside club, with Bohs and Shels forming a North Dublin F.C. Shels are of course traditionally a southside club but they have been playing North of the Liffey for some time now and this appears where they wish to be based.

Far from re-invigorating the league, this move would simply kill off all interest in the game. The exisiting supporters of the four clubs would not switch allegiances and the greater Dublin public would not be interested in such a contrived move. The result would be that no one would attend games.

Dublin is a city of 1.5 million , which is more than enough to sustain four big clubs. All it would take is for just over 2% of the Dublin public to take an
interest in live football and Rovers, Pat's, Shels and Bohs would have 40,000 supporters to fight over. That less than one per cent of the Dublin public attends live football makes a mockery of any claim that Dubliners are 'obsessed' with football. That is the problem in a nutshell.
Of course there are serious problems with how football is administered and presented in Ireland- this column has made the point several times that Irish football is its own worst enemy- but it is not possible to bring the sport in Ireland forward until the Irish people show a willingness to support it. Even if we did have only two clubs in Dublin, with less than one per cent attending games that would still result in crowds of 7,000 each, not exactly a huge figure.

What Dublin needs isn't less football clubs, it's more football fans.

Brilliant.

[Derek]

dublin city farm is a franchise.anyone who supports such an entity is not a football fan

This thread was going fine until this post, what a dumb thing to write. Is your point that if the club you support didn't start a fews ions ago then they have no right to be a club? I have said it before, it matters not how old the club is just that it is a club that people are willing to get behind, OK. Numbers of fans are small but you have to start somewhere, why is it so hard to understand. The few fans that Dublin City have are not converts from other clubs but new fans who wanted something to get behind and not just roll in behind all the rest of the EL clubs. Why is it so hard to understand?

The problem is as the article says is that we need more fans to support all clubs not just the ones that you think are worthy of support. What gives any fan the right to knock any club just for existing? If you don't like the way the fans behave or the way the club is run or the way the football is played then fair enough but just for existing is not enough of a reason to have such hatred.

[manic da hoop]

Kildare County are new to eL football, yet don't attract the same level of animosity as CHF (quite the opposite, in fact) so your arguement about people disliking Ronan seery's franchise simply on the basis that they are 'new' doesn't hold water I'm afraid.

The bottom line is that CHF bring nothing new or inspiring to the league. They are simply occupying a berth. I do not regard them as a 'football club', and this has nothing to do with history. They represent nothing, nowhere and nobody.

[Derek]

Kildare County are new to eL football, yet don't attract the same level of animosity as CHF (quite the opposite, in fact) so your arguement about people disliking Ronan seery's franchise simply on the basis that they are 'new' doesn't hold water I'm afraid.

The bottom line is that CHF bring nothing new or inspiring to the league. They are simply occupying a berth. I do not regard them as a 'football club', and this has nothing to do with history. They represent nothing, nowhere and nobody.

OK I give up!

You win, from now on I will support The Rovers. :rolleyes:

SO that's it, your right, I don't think so.

[Roverstillidie]

OK I give up!

You win, from now on I will support The Rovers. :rolleyes:

SO that's it, your right, I don't think so.

kildare county built up a club, you have a team.
they have a stadium and a youth set up.
CHF just took a spare place in the league and invened themselves in dublin. could have been cork, belfast or anywhere. thats why you are so irritating.
that place could have been progressively taken by a side from belfast, a second cork team, wexford, mayo, kerry or tullamore that would offer 100 times what chf do.
CHF are by any definition a franchise.
therefore they are, in my mind, and im not alone, parasites.
what do they actually bring to the league that Rovers, Bohs, Shels, Pats and UCD dont?

[anto eile]

dublin city , milton keynes dons, red bull salzburg.
all franchises.none are real clubs

[BohDiddley]

I think most people see 'Dublin City' quite simply as an opportunistic wheeze. I certainly don't understand how someone suddenly decides to support them over existing Dublin teams that are having enough trouble surviving, unless they have personal connections to it.
Just like this mullarky about joint stadiums/club mergers, it's another example of this league and association's astonishing ability to shoot itself in the foot.
I agree wholeheartedly with the final line of the Shams article, that what Dublin needs is not fewer clubs but more fans. But does anybody really think that we need another club?

[Derek]

Is that the real reason? the fact that someone else with no links to a club can choose the "francise club" over your club?

Everything starts somewhere! OK Kildare built up something, but by the same token Dublin City are in the process of building something. OK so they took a spot that was available. Dublin are in the process of building what will be one day a fine football club, so lets say in 20,30 or 40 years when you have given up supporting football and Dublin City now have their own stadium, clubhouse, youth section and all the other trappings that go with a club by your definition will you accept them then?

[Derek]

kildare county built up a club, you have a team.
they have a stadium and a youth set up.

What youth section do Kildare have?
What youth section do Rovers have?

Dublin City have a youth and ladies section, early days but as I have said before everything starts somewhere.


therefore they are, in my mind, and im not alone, parasites.
what do they actually bring to the league that Rovers, Bohs, Shels, Pats and UCD dont?

So it's only Dublin City that you don't like? a few posts ago UCD got a mention as a non club.

I think the real reason you cannot see beyond ther end of your nose is you dislike our chairman for some reason.

You need to snap out of it cause Dublin City are not going away.

[Derek]

Is this for real?
Yes, what youth section. as far as I knew you affiliated with a club from Tallaght.

[Derek]

kildare county built up a club, you have a team.
they have a stadium and a youth set up.

Where is the Rovers stadium?

[manic da hoop]

Good God, I've heard it all now - we actually have someone here who is trying to justify the existance of CHF by comparing their credentials with those of Shamrock Rovers :rolleyes:

[Schumi]

Where is the Rovers stadium?No more than a couple of weeks since you were homeless. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[mypost]

Dublin City took a spot that was available.

They did NOT take a spot that was available, because at the time, there was NO spot available. All, they did was use an alias to re-brand their club. They were Home Farm, they are Home Farm, and they will continue to be known as Home Farm. There are 6 clubs all from Dublin City, one of them being Home Farm. I do not recognise their current "name", and I'm not the only one not to.


Dublin City now have their own stadium, clubhouse, youth section and all the other trappings that go with a club by your definition will you accept them then?

Home Farm are, and always have been a junior club. They should not be playing Senior LOI football. The fact that they do play in the league, is another problem with it.

[pete]

IF CHF were not in Dublin they would never get promoted from the 1st division - they just use continuous pool of surplus players from the Dublin region that are in-between clubs. I don't see any progression in them as a club. I don't knock anyone for supporting them but don't see them growing in club or support.

I don't see any Dublin clubs merging but do feel ground share has to be treated as an option. More so than any other part of the country dublin clubs need much better facilities to attract supporter.

[Derek]

Home Farm are, and always have been a junior club. They should not be playing Senior LOI football. The fact that they do play in the league, is another problem with it.

That is silly talk, Dublin City is Dublin City.
Maybe Homefarm are what you say but Dublin City are not.

You ask anybody with anything to do with Homefarm and they will tell you that Dublin City are nothing to do with them.

See the light and accept that Dublin City are here to stay.

And don't give me that rubbish about the players having nothing better to do. Most of the EL players have played for more than one club. There are very few players who have stayed at one or two clubs in their careers.

[Derek]

IF CHF were not in Dublin they would never get promoted from the 1st division - they just use continuous pool of surplus players from the Dublin region that are in-between clubs.

What do you call players from Drogs and Harps?

Locals?


I don't see any progression in them as a club. I don't knock anyone for supporting them but don't see them growing in club or support.

We do grow in support but as all EL clubs will tell you it is a slow process.
I reeckon that we will have our own home before most people could imagine.
Own home means growth, so if we get our own home will that convince some of you ABDC's(Anything but Dublin City).

[crc]

ABDC's(Anything but Dublin City).I like that! :D

Leaving aside the Dub City argument (which appears to cause too many spiteful attacks for reasoned debate), I don't think that you could possibly merge any of the other 5 Dublin teams. It's a ludicrous idea dreamt up by people who know nothing about League of Ireland football. Each of Bohs, Shels, Rovers, Pats and UCD have a destinct identity which fits a particular niche. Mergers would decrease the total number of fans going to games because the existing fans would be alienated and people who currently don't go would not be enticed by makey-uppy teams.


More so than any other part of the country dublin clubs need much better facilities to attract supporter.This is spot on. Every team in the eL needs better facilities, but particularly the Dublin clubs. This is partly because there is so much else to compete with in Dublin

[Roverstillidie]

Yes, what youth section. as far as I knew you affiliated with a club from Tallaght.

currently barry murphy, trever molloy and lee roche and most of the bench are all graduates of the Rovers youth team. Mooney left during the window. Etc etc. Its about all we have going very well.
We merged our youth set up with Tallaght town about 10 years ago.
I wont even go down the road of listing the Irish internationalists and top quality LOI players who came through the ranks over the years.
You are a nothing club, even your arguements are fake.

[Derek]

You are a nothing club, even your arguements are fake.

I not disputing the fact that rovers are what they are but even they started somewhere. Whats fake about what I have said?

Dublin City have setup an affilation with a schoolboy club and hopefully this will lead to similar things as all of the other long established clubs, the part I don't understand in all of your arguments is the fact the you think we should not exist, it all seems very bitter. In all of your remarks it seems to come back to nothing this and nothing that. As I have said before everthing starts somewhere. You can't just create club history it has to be gained through years of effort. In time thats what Dublin City will do.

[Roverstillidie]

i dont think dublin city shouldnt exist. just that they arent in the EL on merit.
you havent made it through 'years of effort'.
years of effort means rising through junior then senior football all the while building facilities. ie what a host of clubs up and down the country are trying to do but wont get into the EL because of parasites like seery.
You just tagged on to home farm and rented their ground.
its a franchise, no matter what your ambitions.

[Derek]

i dont think dublin city shouldnt exist. just that they arent in the EL on merit.
you havent made it through 'years of effort'.
years of effort means rising through junior then senior football all the while building facilities.

Is the problem the starting position? ie straight into the EL. Well whats the difference? It's just that Dublin City started a little bit further up the ladder than some other clubs. Now they are putting in place the other stuff that most teams would have built up from years of existence.

And I also disagree with the slur on our Chairman, if you knew him and what his is about you would change your mind. I know you will still disagree but maybe we have to agree to disagree.

[Roverstillidie]

Fair enough Derek, i think it is a profound difference, but as you say its a zero sum argument.
i just dont get the dublin city thing from either a football or business sense.
Just out of interest are you a converted HF fan or did you start following DC?

[BohDiddley]

... I don't think that you could possibly merge any of the other 5 Dublin teams. It's a ludicrous idea dreamt up by people who know nothing about League of Ireland football.
Spot on.
But none of these 'reformers' are going to propose that explicitly. Instead, it seems there is a sly carrot and stick strategy to force clubs to groundshare, which in the long term will tend towards fewer clubs in Dublin, via mergers and/or clubs going belly up.
I'd like to see examples of successful groundshares from leagues with a similar population and similar attendances. If there are no supporting case studies, then taking this direction is sheer lunacy other than for property developers and the enemies of football who occupy positions of power in the sports establishment.

[mypost]

That is silly talk, Dublin City is Dublin City.
Maybe Homefarm are what you say but Dublin City are not.

You ask anybody with anything to do with Homefarm and they will tell you that Dublin City are nothing to do with them.

See the light and accept that Dublin City are here to stay.

Whether they admit it or not, Home Farm under their commercial title, are still the same club, with the same fan base, have the same ground, same colours, same ethos, and same ambition as before, so they are in my eyes, the same club.

There are 6 NL clubs in Dublin, of which Home Farm are one of them. The disturbing thing I find, is that foreign tourists who buy one of their shirts, knowing no better, would be under the impression that much like other cities in Europe, that Dublin is represented by only one football club. That is not the case, and "Dublin City", (unlike Cork City, Derry City, or Galway United do in other parts of the country), do not represent me, or my identity as a Dubliner. They can label themselves "Dublin City", "Carrolls Gift Stores", or "Ragball Rovers" if they like, they can take Home Farm out of Dublin City if they want, but they can't take Dublin City out of Home Farm, and that's how I will recognise them under the original name only, Home Farm.

[anto eile]

What do you call players from Drogs and Harps?

Locals?



We do grow in support but as all EL clubs will tell you it is a slow process.
I reeckon that we will have our own home before most people could imagine..

harps is mostly a squad of locals, so yeah

dublin farm have never once even mentioned anything resembling developing a ground.

[anto eile]

As I have said before everthing starts somewhere. You can't just create club history it has to be gained through years of effort. In time thats what Dublin City will do.


i agree with you,and you should have started at the bottom rung of the leinster football league.not going straight into the EL.

the only argument against that is an admission that you are a continuation of home farm.
you are not a football club. you are a franchise

[bigmac]

- they just use continuous pool of surplus players from the Dublin region that are in-between clubs. I don't see any progression in them as a club. I don't knock anyone for supporting them but don't see them growing in club or support.


Let's imagine for a minute that DC fold tomorrow, ostensibly to allow another non-Dublin team into the EL. The fact still remains that there are enough players in the Dublin area to support this many EL teams. Unless non-Dublin area teams go professional it is extremely difficult to attract these players out from the capital as amateur players, hence it seems that it is the large number of players in the region that keeps the numbers of clubs up. I have sympathy for DC, it's going to be very difficult to attract fans to a team in Dublin given the competition from bigger clubs.
Incidentally, are all those anti DC people saying that there should be no first division team in Dublin? I know that many people's ideal situation is that UCD should be a first division team, but at the end of the day, if a team can get promoted and then stay in the premier then they deserve to be there. As for taking a place away from other clubs that have worked their way up through the ranks, the same argument can be much more readily levelled at the teams that finish bottom of the first division. Surely a team like DC that can challenge for promotion deserve their place just as much as a "regional" team that struggles?

[Roverstillidie]

the issue for me is not about dublin clubs or non-dublin clubs in the 1st division.
its about shortcuts into the EL. ie a franchise set-up whereby a club can bypass all the sweat and blood of founding a club, bringing it through the ranks, such as kildare. as a football fan i believe this should be stopped.

why did the fai not have a 'tender' process for the hf place?

i would have no problem with a cherry orchard or workmens dub laoighire coming through. i would prefer tullamore or castlebar, but the issue is the shortcut into the EL and complete lack of a 'club' at dublin city.

fair play to seery for vision, but he could have done this in cork and been a success. or bought a real club. it was doomed as a business plan and flawed as a football one.

[bigmac]

I see your point but give them another 5 or 10 years to have a real go at establishing themselves. The fact that Seery went for a club in Dublin is an extension of the fact that most Dublin players would rather stay in Dublin, even if it meant a step downwards in size or quality of club. Why would Seery invest his time and effort away from Dublin? Look at the problems that clubs with monopolies in their own areas are having attracting crowds and sponsors. Seery's one of those guys that I think could really benefit the league in terms of actually promoting EL football.
I don't really subscribe to the antipathy towards a so-called franchise either. If a club is operated as a business and has shareholders, then it is possible to buy it out. I think that Seery saw DC as the only way he could get a chance to implement whatever vision he has for football in Dublin.
Obviously people would prefer an established club (regional if possible) to take a league slot but where are all these clubs when election time comes up each year? As far as I'm aware there aren't any clubs around clamouring to play EL football (open to correction if the clubs you've listed have applied to join the league), in which case DC didn't unfairly take a place from anyone, rather they took a place that nobody else wanted.

[monkey magic]

As far as I'm aware there aren't any clubs around clamouring to play EL football (open to correction if the clubs you've listed have applied to join the league), in which case DC didn't unfairly take a place from anyone, rather they took a place that nobody else wanted.


as far as i know there have been two clubs from the mullingar area (mullingar athletic and mullingar town) attempting to join the league for a few years now? realistically its gonna take a good reason for the board to replace an existing club with a new one... but the dublin city fiasco was a rare chance for the league of ireland to allow a truly new club in.

[Derek]

Just out of interest are you a converted HF fan or did you start following DC?

TO be honest with you I don't like Homefarm. In fact to be realy honest I didn't know that Dublin City came from the remains of Homefarm. I followed Man Utd for years and didn't give a hoot about EL. I tried going to a few games EL games, all the Dublin clubs but never found anything that I wanted to be part of, until about 20 months ago(ish) I went to see Dublin City V Bohs in Tolka park(Dublin won). I enjoyed the whole underdog thing and the fact that they had only a couple of handfuls of supporters. I felt like I was getting in on something exciting and my kids enjoyed the experience so that was it, I was hooked and have only missed I would say about three/four Dublin City games since then(home and away).

I am now fully aware of the Homefarm thing and to be honest apart from using their ground Dublin City have nothing to do with Homefarm anymore. Infact I coach under 9A football for St Pauls Artane F.C. (who by the way are now the schoolboy affiliate to Dublin City) and it gives me nothing but extreme pleasure when the kids go out and beat Homefarm like they did last Saturday, 4:1 to St Pauls.

So to round this off I never knew about the Homefarm thing until it was too late, to be honest I would say that it doesn't matter which team in the EL you pick, the important thing is that we as fans encourage more barstoolers to pick a team and go and experience the live stuff even if it happens to be Dublin City FC.

One more thing from the fans of Dublin City that I know most of them have or had nothing to do with Homefarm. Most are converts like myself.

[BohDiddley]

I enjoyed the whole underdog thing and the fact that they had only a couple of handfuls of supporters.
You didn't have to invent a new EL club to enjoy those qualities. Is following Bohs, Rovers or Pats not masochistic enough for you? :eek:

[bigmac]

I tried going to a few games EL games, all the Dublin clubs but never found anything that I wanted to be part of, until about 20 months ago(ish) I went to see Dublin City V Bohs in Tolka park(Dublin won).


Fair play for being a prodigal son of Irish football Derek, but for me the question is why weren't the other clubs able to pull him into the fold as a supporter? Out of interest, what do you think could have been done by other clubs to have enticed you into supporting them? I assume you'd been to Dalymount and Tolka before throwing your hat into the DC ring, but why did you end up leaving those places without supporting Shels, Bohs or Rovers? (I'm assuming that you're based on the North side so ruling out UCD or St. Pats)