FAO St Pats Fans - Groundsharing

[Jerry The Saint]

Trust me, thats not internet posturing or wishful thinking, the rovers support comes from all over the city, and it's probably about 65-35 on a southside/northside basis.

So that's 65 on the southside, 35 on the northside, where do the other 300 come from :confused:

[Roverstillidie]

None of you will probably believe me but Shels have been in for more talks over that stadium than the GAA. And that's a Fact.

Oh we are well aware of their attempt to gazump us!

Queue the shels fans indignation at the mere suggestion that their club arent a model of loveliness....

[pete]

I hear Bohs & Shels will be sharing Dalymount a lot sooner than people think...

[higgins]

We are well aware that Ollie had or has been looking at that option...

Its not a move that would get any sort of backing from Shels. That's not to say it wont happen as Ollie is the boss and what he says goes unfortunately.

How recent was this interest you are talking of?

[higgins]

Well Pete ,,

Why dont you tell us what you heard so?
Im sure Shels and Bohs fans would love to hear it ...

[ThatGuy]

I hear Bohs & Shels will be sharing Dalymount a lot sooner than people think...
You must know a hell of a lot more than the Bohs membership and some committee members then.

I would be in favour of allowing Shelbourne to buy a 50% stake of Dalymount Park though. Ollie would want to do a better job of courting Bohemians over such a move than his behavior in the ground suggests he is capable of though.

[BohDiddley]

You must know a hell of a lot more than the Bohs membership and some committee members then.

I would be in favour of allowing Shelbourne to buy a 50% stake of Dalymount Park though. Ollie would want to do a better job of courting Bohemians over such a move than his behavior in the ground suggests he is capable of though.
I think we should look at that in deeper terms than Ollie's personal behaviour.
Selling 50% of Dalymount obviously makes short and medium-term financial sense, assuming the price is right. But it is giving Shelbourne a lifeline and a foothold in Bohemian turf (disregarding assertions made here that BFC is some kind of homeless nowhere club) and that, in my view, has strong potential as slow suicide.
BFC is the EL club with the strongest claim to loyalty in north Dublin. The others are imposters. We should keep it that way.

[thejollyrodger]

Bohs and shels in the one stadium ?

ugh

[Roverstillidie]

we took em in in the 80's and look at the monster we helped create!!!!

[joeraki]

We are well aware that Ollie had or has been looking at that option...

Its not a move that would get any sort of backing from Shels. That's not to say it wont happen as Ollie is the boss and what he says goes unfortunately.

How recent was this interest you are talking of?
The most recent where meetings when Rovers where in examinership. They have probably been in more recently, I don't know, but could easily find out.

Also Shels moving to a new stadium in Donabate is a load of bull. They where told at one meeting what's the point in them coming out here inquiring about Tallaght stadium if they had plans of their own for a stadium and selling Tolka. They (Shels) gave a bit of a politicians reply to that. Also the SDCC where a bit off put when they dug about a bit and names of people that formed the group (vultures) Mulden popped up

[manic da hoop]

I actually believe thaat there is huge potential for Shels in Fingal. Similarly to Tallaght it is a large part of Dublin that doesn't really have a club to callits own. With the city already bursting at the seams population growth in towns like Swords, Malahide, Donabate, Skerries and Balbriggan is only going to continue for years to come. With regard to exact ground location they just need to find somewhere central and close to a main road that they can aquire cheaply and is capable of getting PP. Tolka, despite great, and indeed costly, efforts has failed them in terms of tapping into a whole new, large fambase.

[anto eile]

Dublin is located on the east coast of Ireland in the province of Leinster. The area formerly held county status until its dissolution as such in 1994, where Section 9 Part 1(a) of the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993 stated that as of 1st January 1994 "the county shall cease to exist"1. At that time, and in response to a European Council report highlighting Ireland as the most centralised country in the European Union, it was decided that a single County Dublin was unmanageable and undemocratic from a Local Government perspective. The county was formally abolished and replaced with Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal, and South Dublin. The Government was fully aware of the magnitude of the legislation that was being passed, most poignantly noted by Deputy Avril Doyle in the Dáil assembly of the 3rd of November 1993, where she declared "The Bill before us today effectively abolishes County Dublin. I am not sure whether Dubliners realise that that is what we are about today, but in effect that is the case"2. At present, many organisations, state agencies and sporting teams continue to operate on a "County Dublin" basis. Subsequently, much confusion exists around the legitimacy of the new counties - though they do have administrative county status, the only protected recognition of a county within the Irish State. The new counties, in place of County Dublin, will appear on all Irish national maps from 2006 onwards. The formal title of what was County Dublin in Irish legislation is now the Greater Dublin Area (GDA). The census of 2002 recorded the total population of the GDA at 1,122,821, accounting for 28% of the national figure.


interesting .. but not much to do with the actual debate!

[anto eile]

I hear Bohs & Shels will be sharing Dalymount a lot sooner than people think...

an unsubstantiated rumor on two dublin clubs posted by a corkie.
well.. i have to say.. IM CONVINCED!

[anto eile]

btw Rovers support is very much a pan-dublin thing. i know of loads of Hoops on the northside. (personally i view this north/south dublin "rivalry" to be a load of bullsh!t anyway-i dont subscribe to it)
the aforementined Hoops sc must be nearly 50/50 for north/south siders

[thejollyrodger]

Also Shels moving to a new stadium in Donabate is a load of bull.

Shels didnt get donabate rezoned for nothing :)


This thread is all speculation. I wouldnt be surpised if some dublin clubs shared grounds but I cant see it being Shels or Shams in any configeration

[joeraki]

Shels didnt get donabate rezoned for nothing :)

Councils rezone land not football clubs.

And there we have Mulden again

1996
SDCC, give SRFC x amount of land
SRFC, ps ya dont mind if mates of ours help us out a bit with building it
SDCC, Not at all

2005
FCC, give SFC x amount of land
SFC, ps ya dont mind if mates of our help us out a bit with building it
FCC, Get the **** !

SDCC and FCC are from different parts of Dublin not different planets

[Troy.McClure]

Dont have time to read this thread, but if the government want to have ground sharing, cant they get a GAA club to go in with Pats and Rovers at Inchicore and Tallaght instead of one club having to move? More amenities, more locations, same money?

[Dr.Nightdub]

Dont have time to read this thread, but if the government want to have ground sharing, cant they get a GAA club to go in with Pats and Rovers at Inchicore and Tallaght instead of one club having to move? More amenities, more locations, same money?

As it is, the pitch at Richmond is gonna have to be extended to be licence-compliant. There's no way there's room for a GAA pitch.

[BohDiddley]

Dont have time to read this thread, but if the government want to have ground sharing, cant they get a GAA club to go in with Pats and Rovers at Inchicore and Tallaght instead of one club having to move? More amenities, more locations, same money?
I'd much rather ground-share with the bogballers than with Shelbourne.

[pete]

The most logic ground shares in the country would be football & rugby so grounds used 12 months a year & only maybe 5 months overlap.

[higgins]

So Pete are you going to back up you comment of the Shels Bohs ground share?

[sullanefc]

The most logic ground shares in the country would be football & rugby so grounds used 12 months a year & only maybe 5 months overlap.

Do you think "Munster Rugby" and Cork City could get a grant to build a common stadium in Cork. I think this would work out well for both parties. The Celtic League games and Heineken Cup games that clash with City games could be played in Thomond, and the rest played in Cork. I think most City fans would be happy with that. Anyone else??

On the above point, would Musgrave Park be a suitable venue? Who owns that? And do Dolphin RFC have any claim to it and how often do they play there?

[Troy.McClure]

Do you think "Munster Rugby" and Cork City could get a grant to build a common stadium in Cork. I think this would work out well for both parties. The Celtic League games and Heineken Cup games that clash with City games could be played in Thomond, and the rest played in Cork. I think most City fans would be happy with that. Anyone else??

On the above point, would Musgrave Park be a suitable venue? Who owns that? And do Dolphin RFC have any claim to it and how often do they play there?

Id love that, a few points though.

There's acres of land in Musgrave Park: 3 rugby pitches, some training space, car parks, spare space.
MRFU (Munster Rugby) own the park but Dolphin/Sundays Well have a 100 year lease type thing on it that was renewed a few years agao AFIK
The stadium is a long long way off UEFA Licence standards.

As Dolphin and the Well both play there, the main pitch is used nearly every week in the domestic season, + some Munster games + the odd school game. If City were to move there I recon that one rugby team would have to move out, and I cant see this happening or else a new, low capacity ground would have to be built on one of the other 2 grounds but this is also unlikely as the remaining 2 pitches are for Dolphin and the Well and are used for training and underage games. The idea of a merger between Dolphin and the Well was rejected about 3 years ago so that prob wont happen.

Anyway this is off topic (kinda). But the idea of municipal ground sharig between different sports, which seems to happen everywhere else in the world except the UK, should be explored before merging teams.

[sullanefc]

Id love that, a few points though.

There's acres of land in Musgrave Park: 3 rugby pitches, some training space, car parks, spare space.
MRFU (Munster Rugby) own the park but Dolphin/Sundays Well have a 100 year lease type thing on it that was renewed a few years agao AFIK
The stadium is a long long way off UEFA Licence standards.

As Dolphin and the Well both play there, the main pitch is used nearly every week in the domestic season, + some Munster games + the odd school game. If City were to move there I recon that one rugby team would have to move out, and I cant see this happening or else a new, low capacity ground would have to be built on one of the other 2 grounds but this is also unlikely as the remaining 2 pitches are for Dolphin and the Well and are used for training and underage games. The idea of a merger between Dolphin and the Well was rejected about 3 years ago so that prob wont happen.

Anyway this is off topic (kinda). But the idea of municipal ground sharig between different sports, which seems to happen everywhere else in the world except the UK, should be explored before merging teams.

I see why it wouldn't work now. Unless, the Munster FA were to come on board, and allow Dolphin and the Well to use Turners Cross if Cork City were allowed to play in a new done up Musgrave Park. Can't see that happening though.
I think that a common stadium for both Munster and Cork City would be the way to go. And Limerick FC could come to an agreement to share Thomond??? :o

[kdjaC]

In the PL mag free with the Star Paul Lennon agress that the teams should groundshare.



Pragues model for Dublin

How Dublin and irish domestic football could with either of pragues 2 main grounds. While Sparta Pragues Sparta Stadium and Slavias Strahov Stadium are too small for the national team. They hold 20k and 19k respectively making it ideal for club football.

Altho Shels Shams Bohs and Pats could only dream of half filling those capactice on an occasional basis for big EL games both grounds would ideal for FAI final.

On Wed night little more than 15k watched spart and ajax play out a 1-1 in CL with a crap atmosphere. But replace the attendence with 15k passionate Derry/Bohs/Cork/Longford/Hoops and blue riband finale would be transformed from its current standing Lansdowne which is simply to vast for the crowd that attends.

Surely its time foe the four in Dublin to consider constructin joint sides of the liffey- Dalymount or tallaght

*article rewritten slightly to make some words smaller as my fingers hurt :(

Wonder where he got that informed opinion from?

Hi Paul...


kdjac

[wws]

this is a complete non runner on so many levels - its simply a way of terminating grant funding without having to justify or answer to anyone

well done FAI

great work again :rolleyes:

[Slash/ED]

so why exactly are shels planning on leaving a centrally located ground to move 20 miles up the coast? the scenery?

because your success on the pitch has not been mirrored on the terraces. Rovers at their lowest ever ebb consitantly get more in the door, and pats aint having a great time either, but more punters in.

oily wants a greenfield site and not have to compete with the bores and chf for local fans. hardly a secret!

Typical Rovers utter lies.

We don't get 'as many' as Rovers or Pats, we get more, check the attendence thread. I think we've a higher average than Bohs this season too but I haven't checked in a while.

[chippie0001]

Typical Rovers utter lies.

We don't get 'as many' as Rovers or Pats, we get more, check the attendence thread. I think we've a higher average than Bohs this season too but I haven't checked in a while.

Yeah but on you own MB its admited that they are not official attendances but guess's, where as the clubs clubs are official. Nothing wrong with guess work but we all know how wrong they can be.

[Slash/ED]

Yeah but on you own MB its admited that they are not official attendances but guess's, where as the clubs clubs are official. Nothing wrong with guess work but we all know how wrong they can be.

What in the name of god are you on about?

Post the link to that thread.

The numbers are offical, coming from Bohs fans favourite Fintan Cassidy who works on the stiles.

They'd be pretty exact for guesses don't you think!?

[chippie0001]

What in the name of god are you on about?

Post the link to that thread.

The numbers are offical, coming from Bohs fans favourite Fintan Cassidy who works on the stiles.

They'd be pretty exact for guesses don't you think!?

Below is the quote and the link from Fintan as you say:

There's no club policy on official attendances - I used to check them out off my own bat from the stile readings. but stopped because it's too much bother and I couldn't be arsed any more.

I'd post them here in match threads and Jammer would list them on foot.ie

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=4267

[Slash/ED]

And in Bohs speak that becomes "They're complete guesses?"

He's stopped now, but the figures up to this point we're all the proper figures.

[chippie0001]

And in Bohs speak that becomes "They're complete guesses?"

He's stopped now, but the figures up to this point we're all the proper figures.
If you read it it does not say when he stopped. I never said complete I said guesses and well if they are not actual accurate figure well they must be a guess. Is that unreasonable?

[Slash/ED]

I know when he stopped, it was when he stopped posting the figures. The UCD match and one other, the Drogheda one I think, are the only two league games without offical figures for Shels this season. He used to PM me and I'd put them on here, so all figures were offical bar UCD and Drogheda which he just didn't get.

Eitherway, by this stage of the season, the average would not change dramatically and it proves the original poster was talking b*ll*cks.

[Jerry The Saint]

The numbers are offical, coming from Bohs fans favourite Fintan Cassidy who works on the stiles.

They'd be pretty exact for guesses don't you think!?

I think the Shelbourne figures are 100% accurate. After all, if there was any doubt they would only have to count the number of tickets to get the exact figure.................

What do you mean they don't sell tickets :confused: Well never mind, I think we can all trust Shelbourne :eek:

[wws]

i'm sick of this absolute bs from shels re attendances - any fool can watch el weekly and see the facts - pats have been consistently getting over 1000 all season - even down the bottom of the league table - can anyone watching last nights 1 man and a dog fest at tolka claim the same for shels??? Dont make me laugh - its been sub 1000 all the way bar the visits of the other main dublin clubs

absolute bulls.hit



and its getting tiresome at this stage listnening to ppl from tolka talk up their non exsistent crowds

heres a guess to add to the bulls.t guestimate thread -- paying punters at Shels v Waterford? less than 500.

[TheOwl]

i'm sick of this absolute bs from shels re attendances - any fool can watch el weekly and see the facts - pats have been consistently getting over 1000 all season - even down the bottom of the league table - can anyone watching last nights 1 man and a dog fest at tolka claim the same for shels??? Dont make me laugh - its been sub 1000 all the way bar the visits of the other main dublin clubs

absolute bulls.hit



and its getting tiresome at this stage listnening to ppl from tolka talk up their non exsistent crowds

heres a guess to add to the bulls.t guestimate thread -- paying punters at Shels v Waterford? less than 500.

So we will overstate our crowds and pay the extra tax just to make ourselves look "good"?

Wow you have our number alright!

[Slash/ED]

Don't even bother with the wum WWS, he's Joey Ndos best mate don't you know

[Roverstillidie]

I know when he stopped, it was when he stopped posting the figures. The UCD match and one other, the Drogheda one I think, are the only two league games without offical figures for Shels this season. He used to PM me and I'd put them on here, so all figures were offical bar UCD and Drogheda which he just didn't get.

Eitherway, by this stage of the season, the average would not change dramatically and it proves the original poster was talking b*ll*cks.

by that i assume you mean me?

so are you happy with shels crowds? are you happy with them relative to the other big 3 in dublin?
Rovers Bohs and Pats are having poor seasons. Shels are in the middle of their most successful period ever . All 4 have had relatively consistant crowds. Rovers and Bohs appear to get a minimum of c1,500 at games, pats 1,000 and shels 800. Derby crowds and away fans swell this, but thats the bedrock.
Ultimatlely shelbournes 'hardcore' support has not in anyway increased with their success. Unlike Rovers, Pats and Bohs when they were winning in the 90's.
You brought a pitiful crowd to Dalymount 2 weeks ago. Its half a mile from your home ground and there were 300 of you. The champions playing your fiercest rivals. 300.
Im aware Rovers crowds arent what they should be, but if we were established in Tallaght, winning things and had a €35k a week wage bill, and still couldnt pull 1,000 for non derby games I would ask qustions. My reply would not see me pulling dubious unofficial stats of a website.

[Slash/ED]

No you said they all got better. You were talking out of your arse.

[wws]

i give up, these goons would have us believe that there is 1000 punters "hidden from view" of the tv cameras - given they officially close half their ground its laughable - like I said sub 500 crowds are the shels bedrock

pats the only team in dublin that can put its hand up and say we have got over 1000 for every home game this year - and thats the official figure - we've fck all to hide unlike shels - we announce the figure at the game - the figure which is in the return to the el office as opposed to some BS that the bloke in a turnstiles whispers to his mates- and its nowt to do with tax you fool - its the image problem that ollie has with releasing accurate attendances figures - they're so sh.t its embareesing for shels to admit the reality

[Roverstillidie]

No you said they all got better. You were talking out of your arse.

find that quote from me.
and ignore the substantive argument while you do.

[pete]

The only accurate way to judge crowds is to only include home support. This will show Dublin crowds down a huge amount in recent years which must be very concerning.

[wws]

as an aside to this two of the teams in the Champions league group stages regularly play in front of less than 1,500 ppl

its irrelevant in my opinion - Irish football can improve in many areas but crowds will NEVER change

what we got is what it is - only those challenging for leagues will get temporary upswings - witness the cork bandwagon...

[Macy]

So we will overstate our crowds and pay the extra tax just to make ourselves look "good"?

Wow you have our number alright!
Sporting tickets/entry are exempted from VAT in Ireland, afaik. No other tax due on it, so tax is an irrelevance when it comes to attendance figures. Nice try though.

[chippie0001]

i give up, these goons would have us believe that there is 1000 punters "hidden from view" of the tv cameras - given they officially close half their ground its laughable - like I said sub 500 crowds are the shels bedrock

pats the only team in dublin that can put its hand up and say we have got over 1000 for every home game this year - and thats the official figure - we've fck all to hide unlike shels - we announce the figure at the game - the figure which is in the return to the el office as opposed to some BS that the bloke in a turnstiles whispers to his mates- and its nowt to do with tax you fool - its the image problem that ollie has with releasing accurate attendances figures - they're so sh.t its embareesing for shels to admit the reality

We have over 1,000 at every league game this season, 1100 being the lowest so far. Those are official attandances too.

Pathetic that we are argueing about getting over 1000 people but I agree with WWS, crowds will not come out long term unless something very dramatic happens. :confused:

[chippie0001]

Sporting tickets/entry are exempted from VAT in Ireland, afaik. No other tax due on it, so tax is an irrelevance when it comes to attendance figures. Nice try though.
You are right there is no VAT on the tickets. So unless Accolade makes a profit on football, they pay no tax even if they get 100,000 a week in the gate.

[anto eile]

You are right there is no VAT on the tickets. So unless Accolade makes a profit on football, they pay no tax even if they get 100,000 a week in the gate.

they have to pay tax on wages though. incidentally their lowest paid player earns E250 a week-thats one of the young players in his first year in the first team.
with wages negotiated at net rate shels must be paying considerable amounts of tax and prsi.thats assuming ollie didnt carry out his threat to the revenue of never paying tax again
anyway point is shels do/should pay tax, if only on players wages (which is still equivalent to the entire yearly budgets of other clubs)

[manic da hoop]

[QUOTE=anto eile]they have to pay tax on wages though. incidentally their lowest paid player earns E250 a week-thats one of the young players in his first year in the first team.
[QUOTE]

No club in this league payes taxes on their players' wager except one - the club that gor deducted eight points for financial irregularities! You couldn't make it up :rolleyes:

[ThatGuy]

So we will overstate our crowds and pay the extra tax just to make ourselves look "good"?

Wow you have our number alright!
I don't see why exaggerating crowds and paying extra tax go hand in hand.

You can fiddle the attendance figures any way you want and still avoid paying any extra tax, simply by claiming that a large proportion of the crowd are on student/child/oap rates, or even on freebies.

And also, Ollie Byrne has stated in the national press that Shelbourne will not pay tax because of the Rovers situation.

[Macy]

No club in this league payes taxes on their players' wager except one - the club that gor deducted eight points for financial irregularities! You couldn't make it up :rolleyes:
Are you sure about that? Would've thought the likes of Harps would be pretty well run, and I remember they said they issue pay slips etc...

What did come out of your examinership is the huge amount of wages being paid as expenses, so PAYE exempt. If or when the revenue investigate that, most clubs will be fooked.