Premiership Bubble Bursting

[Clifford]

Maybe whiskey nose wants to join the easy option of F CUM as well at this stage...

'FERGIE BANS MUTV'

SIR ALEX FERGUSON is refusing to speak to Manchester United's TV station MUTV after one of their presenters criticised his tactics and formation.

Fergie took exception to comments made by presenter Paul Anthony after United's 0-0 Champions League draw with Villarreal last week and has snubbed the station since.

The United boss refused to speak to the channel before or after the weekend clash at Liverpool in protest at the remarks and the negative tone of the post-match show.

[anto1208]

Good for them, they'll enjoy the craic there I imagine. Good crowds and banter.


how?

i thought this team was set up by the so called utd fans that turned there back on there team !!

so all you will have there is a bunch of whinging manc tw ats sounds like great craic allright


as for the bubble bursting , they need to sort it out now before it goes down the road of europeen football , who wants to watch italian footy no one not even the italians !! :D

[Dublin12]

What should happen is this:
Players earn more money now than ever and ticket prices have risen therefore we should get more entertainment on the pitch,50 minutes each half instead of 45.
1 point for a 0/0 draw
2 points for a score draw
3 points for a win by 1 goal
4 points for a win by 2 goals
5 points for a win by 5 goals.

This would encourage more attacking play and not allow teams like Chelsea to sit back and defend a 1 goal lead.Also it could make the season last longer for alot of teams.

[OwlsFan]

Sounds good except I'd drop the pts by 1 for each category and have no points for a 0-0 or possibly -1 if you don't score. The emphasis must be put on winning and scoring goals in the process.

[Macy]

how?

i thought this team was set up by the so called utd fans that turned there back on there team !!

so all you will have there is a bunch of whinging manc tw ats sounds like great craic allright


as for the bubble bursting , they need to sort it out now before it goes down the road of europeen football , who wants to watch italian footy no one not even the italians !! :D
Turning their back on the premiership, the money obsessed players and the numpties that have started going to all grounds since the early 90's.

They've actually made the hard choice, rather than blindly handing over more and more money every season for poor football, in sanitised stadiums, to make a few individuals rich.

Hardly expect a member of the Klan to agree though, probably to busy bumming his Red "brothers" across the park....

[mypost]

Because of the trouble. There's trouble, or attempts to cause trouble at every United v Liverpool game.

Where's the trouble?? There has been no trouble at that game for as long as I can remember. There have been occasional incidents outside grounds and elsewhere, but that's not football's problem, if people want to scrap, they will. 12pm ko's won't stop them.

[sligoman]

Fergie took exception to comments made by presenter Paul Anthony after United's 0-0 Champions League draw with Villarreal last week and has snubbed the station since.I was at that game and any criticism made towards the team was dead right. United were terrible! :o

[Macy]

Where's the trouble?? There has been no trouble at that game for as long as I can remember. There have been occasional incidents outside grounds and elsewhere, but that's not football's problem, if people want to scrap, they will. 12pm ko's won't stop them.
If United and Liverpools firms fight nothing to do with the match at all, obviously :rolleyes:

There hasn't been much because of the policing, which is helped by early kick offs. No pubs, not where to congregate and less likely to be people being encouraged by dutch courage.

Have you ever been to a United v Liverpool game? Sure as hell haven't been in the city centre's if you think an early kick off can't be justified...

[mypost]

There hasn't been much because of the policing, which is helped by early kick offs. No pubs, not where to congregate and less likely to be people being encouraged by dutch courage.

Have you ever been to a United v Liverpool game? Sure as hell haven't been in the city centre's if you think an early kick off can't be justified.

We'll see how far that policy gets, when 24-hour drinking legislation comes into force in the UK later this year. People will be able to drink whenever they like, so early match ko's will be no deterrent to trouble. Or are you suggesting that hooligans only scrap at certain times of the day?? :confused:

[anto eile]

Since when?? I can't remember hooliganism inside a English stadium featuring Liverpool. Much worse happens on the continent, but their showcase games never kick-off at 12pm. When was the last time, there was violence inside/outside Anfield or OT, when both sides have met? 18 months ago, the sides met at 3pm on a Saturday. Why was our game moved yesterday?? Because of television, not alcohol.

I hope when the 24-hour drinking regulations come into force in the UK, these ghastly kick-off times will be phased out, as fans will be able to get p'eyed just as much at 9am, as at 9pm.
violence around grounds is rampant in england, sky dont report it as it would damage their product. believe me the hooliganism is nearly as bad as ever

[Lionel Ritchie]

Where's the trouble?? There has been no trouble at that game for as long as I can remember. There have been occasional incidents outside grounds and elsewhere, but that's not football's problem, if people want to scrap, they will. 12pm ko's won't stop them.

sticking your head in the sand now mypost. the trouble is real and the threat of it getting worse is very real.

[Lionel Ritchie]

had just typed a reply to D12s points idea when feckin machine crashed as I tried to post. So in one sentence -why not just make the goals a wee bit bigger?

varying points for higher scores is a bit american for my liking. Rarity of goals by and large good thing. Shay Given not short. :D

[Ash]

from www.football365.com



Premier League to discuss crowd falls
Tuesday September 20 2005

Premier League chiefs are to study whether rising ticket prices and television
coverage have contributed to an apparent slump in top-flight attendances at
a special meeting next month.

The league's attendance working group, which is headed by chief executive
Richard Scudamore, will deal with the concerns of several club chairmen who
are seeing a dwindling number of fans coming through the turnstiles.

Blackburn chairman John Williams, a member of the working group, saw just
20,725 fans turn up for Sunday's home match with Newcastle, 9,000 fewer
than last season.

Williams told PA Sport: "We in the Premier League have had 10 great years, a
fantastic success story, but we are certainly going through the doldrums
now.

"We have to do something now because by the time you see the bandwagon
it's too late.

"Richard Scudamore is going to reconstitute the working group and it's time to
sit down and go through a whole plethora of things that might be done.

"The wheels have not come off but the product does need a good service -
it needs tweaking rather than major surgery.''

Williams believes a combination of factors including saturation television
coverage, tickets prices, negative tactics and predictable results are behind
the fall in attendances.

Sports minister Richard Caborn said he too was concerned by the fall in
numbers.

Caborn told PA Sport: "I'm pleased the Premier League have taken this
initiative, and the working party are going to have to look at whether clubs
are pricing fans out of going matches.

"One also has to question how much football there is on television and
whether it's undermining attendances. I believe there is clear evidence that is
the case.''

Caborn added that football now had greater competition for fans from other
sports, particularly in the first two months of the season from cricket and
both rugby codes.

The working party will report any proposals to the next meeting of Premier
League chairmen in November.

The Premier League remain bullish about their product however and point out
that there were worries about attendances at this point last season but that
overall the clubs operated at a 94.2% occupancy rate compared to 93.7% in
the 2002-03 season, and considerably higher than in Spain and Germany
despite prices in those countries being significantly lower.

A spokesman said: "It's very early in the season to take any sort of
meaningful analysis from these statistics.''

[superfrank]

Oh come on!! I think they are ignoring the obvious problem here. I saw it on Sky News the other day. It's £26.40 (roughly €45) to get an adult and child into a Real Madrid match, it's £21.40 (€30-€35) to get an adult and child into AS Roma and £12.40 (€20) to get an adult and child into Bayern. Yet it's £90 (€130-€140) to get the same deal at Chelsea.

[elroy]

As a side, I think the last two years have being the best the EL has produced in a long time and alot of that is due to summer soccer and the declining attraction of the EPL as well as the success of Shels and Cork in europe. Such success makes people who would not bother about Irish soccer stand up and take notice.

As for the premiership, i think the bubble has burst which was inevitable, it happened in italy a few years ago, look at the state of some of their 'top' clubs eg lazio, parma. The wages the players are being paid are unsustainable and it would be no harm if these dropped down to a more realisitic level. Also the emergence of Abrahamovic has meant that chelsea are now in a league of their own and can afford to play in front of smaller crowds each week, while a large portion of the league are out there to survive in the league, knowing otherwise financial ruin awaits. IMO this is the singlest biggest factor for the negative football throughout the league. WBA went to Chelsea a few wks back and fielded a weakened team to prepare for their BIG game against Birmingham at the wkd, says alot really!
Football needs to be given back to the fans over there, doubt it will happen.

I also think the saturation of european games is diminishing the entertainment of the CL and the Uefa cup as well, the knockout stages of the CL are well worth watching but the group games Im not so sure.

[wws]

the group games are still a spectacular mass tv appeal - cross continent - the bookies are taking record amounts on CL trading which has bypassed individual leagues - interest is massive and the CL format at present is ideal for all concerned

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=elroy]

Also the emergence of Abrahamovic has meant that chelsea are now in a league of their own and can afford to play in front of smaller crowds each week, while a large portion of the league are out there to survive in the league, knowing otherwise financial ruin awaits. IMO this is the singlest biggest factor for the negative football throughout the league. WBA went to Chelsea a few wks back and fielded a weakened team to prepare for their BIG game against Birmingham at the wkd, says alot really!
Football needs to be given back to the fans over there, doubt it will happen.

QUOTE]

this is very true , befroe he came along the money was drying up wages and transfer fee's were on the way down , but chelsea have made it impossible to compete with soo every club will have to have a rich owner to buy the "best " and we'll be left with a bunch of over paid pansy's too affraid to tackle in case they hurt there earning potential !!.


but its still by far the best league there was a players vote recently there were asked to vote for the top 55 players 19 of which play in the prem , thats about 35 % of the worlds best players play in the prem L

[Macy]

this is very true , befroe he came along the money was drying up wages and transfer fee's were on the way down , but chelsea have made it impossible to compete with soo every club will have to have a rich owner to buy the "best " and we'll be left with a bunch of over paid pansy's too affraid to tackle in case they hurt there earning potential !!.
Started by Jack Walker and Blackburn, lets not forget, in the UK at least. (There's many examples on the continent - Parma and Monaco the main examples).

[wws]

Started by Jack Walker and Blackburn, lets not forget, in the UK at least. (There's many examples on the continent - Parma and Monaco the main examples).



what do you mean by Monaco???

they are not bankrolled by anyone - they have massive debts in fact - at the time of their champions league run they did it on a shoestring with loan players cause they couldn't buy anyone

[aIr BaNd!]

Well at least Jack Walker was from Blackburn and supported his hometown team all his life.This russian has so much money that his really playing football fantasy in real life.Not worried about the game in england,only concerned about Cork City and the Eircom league.

[anto1208]

Well at least Jack Walker was from Blackburn and supported his hometown team all his life.This russian has so much money that his really playing football fantasy in real life.Not worried about the game in england,only concerned about Cork City and the Eircom league.

what about the national side ? who allmost all play in the prem league .

im allways amased at people ( not you ) on this forum that delight in the decline of the prem league or english football on a whole , do they honestly think players like keane and duff would be as good if they had stayed in ireland ?

[Peadar]

Started by Jack Walker and Blackburn

Did Rovers not establish the Jack Walker Trust whereby all money contributed by him to the club would be repaid?

Chelsea are in a situation where they would collapse if it weren't for the deep pockets of the red one. They're a long way off being financially stable.


do they honestly think players like keane and duff would be as good if they had stayed in ireland ?

It's people like you who amaze me for thinking that the English leagues are the only ones open to Irish players. Some may argue that our players have never developed into top class players because they've been restricted by the limitations of British coaching techniques.

[anto1208]

It's people like you who amaze me for thinking that the English leagues are the only ones open to Irish players. Some may argue that our players have never developed into top class players because they've been restricted by the limitations of British coaching techniques.

its not my opinion its fact , look at the national team and look where they play , ive never heard of a youngster picked up by a spanish or italian side so more or less it is the only league open to them bar the few kids in scotland .

so if it was nt for english soccer they would be playing in ireland they would never have developed into the players they are now . imagine if we had to pick a team from the eircom league, jokes of players like crowe would get call ups !!!

[pete]

How are attendances in the lower leagues in England doing? Will the Premiership ever introduce percentage based total wage bill cap?

[Peadar]

so if it was nt for english soccer they would be playing in ireland they would never have developed into the players they are now

We'd have less players going abroad but the better players would be picked up by the bigger and better clubs in Europe. If you believe all that you've written there then I fear for you. I really do.

For all the players who leave Ireland to play football in England, we have no more than 3 at the moment who are International quality. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Roy Keane, Damien Duff and Shay Given wouldn't have made it in Europe. They owe little or nothing to English football.

[aIr BaNd!]

Anto1208.

Not knocking english football,just stating a few facts thats all.Total greed has taken over english football and the real supporters are being squeezed out of the game.People in lreland don't see that as they are blinkered by sky sports/media saturation coverage of english premiership.
The real football fans in english have taken action by staying away from games.People wake up and see that rich are getting richer and the ordinary supporters is a past identity of yesterday.Just look at what clubs premiership clubs are charging in admission prices to games.english premiership now only a boring one horse race.

[anto1208]

We'd have less players going abroad but the better players would be picked up by the bigger and better clubs in Europe. If you believe all that you've written there then I fear for you. I really do.

For all the players who leave Ireland to play football in England, we have no more than 3 at the moment who are International quality. Don't fool yourself into thinking that Roy Keane, Damien Duff and Shay Given wouldn't have made it in Europe. They owe little or nothing to English football.


its this constant brit bashing again !!they owe nothing to english football are you serious? they owe everything ,all these players were picked up by english clubs trained and developed . i would agree with you if even one italian spanish german etc club had one irish kid on there books at the moment , fact is they dont see ireland as being able to produce players for them , thats why they dont sign any irish kids .

if forest or an other english club hadnt taken a chance with keane chances are he'd still be in cork

[anto1208]

Anto1208.

Not knocking english football,just stating a few facts thats all.Total greed has taken over english football and the real supporters are being squeezed out of the game.People in lreland don't see that as they are blinkered by sky sports/media saturation coverage of english premiership.
The real football fans in english have taken action by staying away from games.People wake up and see that rich are getting richer and the ordinary supporters is a past identity of yesterday.Just look at what clubs premiership clubs are charging in admission prices to games.english premiership now only a boring one horse race.

true for some clubs but not all , my season ticket costs 450 so it works out at under £25 per game thats nothing most of ye will think nothing of spending £25 on booze at the weekend if not double that amount .but we are one of the best priced and there for best supported teams ( our attendences are on the up ) i can understand why chelsea fans are staying away with things like full price kids and dissabled tickets .

[wws]

if forest or an other english club hadnt taken a chance with keane chances are he'd still be in cork


in keanes case i think you are wrong - he demonstrated the will to move on up to the highest possible level even before he had secured a move to an english team - he was on some old fai excellecnce course when he was a kid - he was the youngest on it and was homesick - i remmeber them goin on about it in a documentary on him once


facts are keane was a talent - if it wasnt forest it would have been someone else - the cream always rises to the top

i take your point it wouldnt have been a continental club that signed him tho - as they have zero links with the irish youth scene - and for historical reasons no need to have any links with it

[tetsujin1979]

I would agree with you if even one italian spanish german etc club had one irish kid on there books at the moment
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Barcelona have an Irish kid on their books. Or at least they had in the very recent past.

[jockser]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Barcelona have an Irish kid on their books. Or at least they had in the very recent past.
His name is Jockser or something :cool:

[Éanna]

do they honestly think players like keane and duff would be as good if they had stayed in ireland ?
They'd be even better if they played in a technically better league like Spain or Italy. The best scenario would be that Irish players would be able to begin their careers in Ireland, developing better as people, and then securing moves to the best leagues in Europe (including England). This would improve football in Ireland and would also guarantee the national team's security.

[jebus]

I really don't see what the Premier League commitee has to discuss. Its fairly obvious to everyone I'd imagine why the attendences have fallen in England because they're are at least a few fairly obvious reasons, over-pricing being on of the main ones, but for me the absolute main one has to be

The Style of Football Being Played Seriously I haven't watched one decent Premiership game this season, and God help Sky if they continue with their 'Óne United game a Week' policy. Look at the top teams at the moment, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United, outside of Arsenal not one of these clubs has even attempted to produce good flowing football in the last year or two, and even Arsenal are toning it down because they realise playing all out attack won't win them anything major anymore.

Chelsea under Mourinho have been tactically spot on, they suffocate a team and don't give goals away, fair play to them, they won the Premiership for the first time in fifty years and will probably go on and win another this season and another the next season, but they just aren't exciting to watch, even when you put them in a grudge match with Arsenal or United, it just lacks passion.

Arsenal tried keeping the flowing football going up until they realised they couldn't catch Chelsea this way, and that as long as they did so United would hack them off the park ala the Battle of the Buffet, the Battle of Old Trafford, so they changed it. And again it worked well. They defended well against United in the FA Cup final and took home the cup, just as well they won that because by the looks of the lack of funding coming Wenger's way for the team it'll be the last thing they win for a while.

Ferguson panicked at United when everyone started to realise that he's number has been called and its time to retire and has basically just tried to copy Mourinho's tactics at Chelsea, problem is, United aren't good enough as a team to play it as well as Chelsea do. Would anyone from the United team other than Rooney, Van Nistelrooy and Ferdinand be certs to get in the Chelsea first XI? And no I''m not forgetting Ronaldo.

And at Liverpool, well lets face it, their team is ****e and Benitez probably has to play negative tactics regardless.

But its no surprise that Blackeye Rovers can only fill out 63% of their stadium these days, or that they sit bottom of the attendence league (click here for the atendence league stats (http://stats.football.co.uk/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html) ) The Premiership has pimped itself out to so many companies since it began that it can't be any surprise that these casual fans are leaving them now. They were never going to stick around when football lost its gloss with the tabloids, especially when the English national team is underperforming whilst the English rugby team are the World Champions and the Cricketers just defeated Australia in the best Ashes series I've ever seen anyway. Personally I'd rather watch the Championship (come on nthe Owls!) or La Liga any day of the week at this stage than have to sit through another Utd - Everton, Liverpool - Utd or Utd - Villa (see Sky has been shown an unusual amount of Utd games) again.

[RedX]

My opinion of the drop in attentendances in the Premiership is this..

I have been reading articles regarding ticket prices and all that rubbish but that IMO is all a cover up to the more wide problem which is people being completely bored like others have stated above..some of it is down to watching morons like Rio Ferdinand demand extra money on an already unbeleivable wage he receives..some is down to the prices of tickets and some down to so much Sky coverage...but i think the main problem is that people are bored seeing the same teams always now being focused on constantly..John Terry this,Frank Lampard that,will it ever end..all that matters is Champions League..no one cares when the Carling Cup and FA Cup come along anymore because they are not that important to the Man U's and Chelseas..but they are to the rest of the clubs and especially the lower league clubs..the days of upsets in cups seem to be leaving..big clubs treating small clubs like nothings by fielding 2nd string sides and even if they lose they say sure we are concentrating on bigger things..the romance of football in England is out the window..gone..Sky is destroying the game there..there should have been a wage cap of nothing more than 20,000 put on years ago..i support Ipswich in England and i always remember the times when Ipswich beat one of the top teams in the league or cup..it was great for me to slag guys that were slagging me for yrs..now if Ipswich beat a top team in the cup the reply is "its a nothing cup anyway"..the craic is gone...i used to go over to watch Ipswich when i could while also being a huge Cork City fan...but now there is only one team for me and its not Ipswich..i would not spend 20 euro to cross the road to see them anymore..and our best players want to go over and sample that..what a fcuking shame...

[mypost]

Kick-off times are affecting attendances. You saw it last season, when Cardiff was less than half-full for one of the FA Cup semi-finals. What bad blood exists between the fans that forced an Arsenal v Blackburn cup tie to be played at 12.45? :confused:

Far from the police deciding kick-off times, the times are actually written into the tv contract. There must be a Saturday lunchtime game, there must be one at 5.15, there must be a 1.30pm game on Sundays, you can't play on Sunday at 4.00, it must ko at 4.05 instead, and there must be 2 PPV games shown every weekend, to facilitate tv. Some weeks you play at 3pm, then you have 3 ko's in the morning/evening, then back to 3, and sometimes out to 8pm. More of the same applies in Scotland. It's bonkers!

Such mad times, affect atmospheres. Grounds in the Premiership resemble more like libraries these days, than sports arenas. In Germany for example, all 7 league games ko at the same time on Saturdays, at 3.30pm. The remaining 2 games of the weekend, ko at 5.30pm on Sundays. There is no messing around with ko times. When I went to a Bayern league game in Germany recently, both sets of fans mingled with each other before the game, and created a cauldron of noise throughout the game, that you simply don't get in England these days. At the end of the match, all 65,000+ fans calmly left the stadium at the same time, (no holding back of away fans), and met up with each other outside again. There wasn't the remotest hint of trouble at any time. It was a pleasant change, when you see how things are done in England, and occasionally, at games here.

Have you seen Sunderland's crowds on the box? They may have one of the most passionate sets of fans in England, yet there are vast rows of empty seats at their ground. People don't have the money to travel all over the country, every few days. If Chelsea play Newcastle on a Wednesday night, a Newcastle fan has to book two days holiday to travel down and pay about €200 overall (and that's just for himself) for the round trip, only to probably see his side collapse. Why bother? It's not worth the money anymore.