Republic of Ireland V Hungary - Tuesday, 4th June 2024 - Friendly

[Razors left peg]

Andy Moran will be training with the seniors too before going to play with the 21s

[Eirambler]

If Cannon gets capped next week then he has to wait until after June 2027 before he can switch.

Article 9.2, A request to change association may be granted only in the following
circumstances: Section C, paragraph V states.

"At least three years have passed since being fielded for his last
match at “A” international level in any kind of football for his
current association, whether in an official competition or non-
official competition;"

Just to give the definitive answer to this because I didn't have time yesterday. 9.2 Section C only applies where:

the player:
i) was fielded in a match in an official competition at “A”
international level in any kind of football for his current
association;

and

iii) at the time of being fielded for his last match in an official
competition in any kind of football for his current association,
he had not turned 21 years old;

i) doesn't apply because these are friendlies and iii) doesn't apply because Cannon has already turned 21 (though this is not really important anyway in this case because i) isn't applicable for these games).

So, Cannon can play either or both games and switch to England in the next window if he wants to. He will only be cap tied to Ireland once he plays a competitive game. Because he has already turned 21 he doesn't have to play three competitive games to be cap tied, a single competitive cap will do it.

Incidentally, I think Cannon is underrated by Irish supporters. We haven't paid too much attention to him because we haven't known whether he'll commit to us or not (and we still don't). But he's known for being a really strong trainer and hard worker, as well as a good player. if we end up with him alongside Ferguson, Idah and in the shorter term Szmodics, we'll be looking in really great shape up front. And of course there are others too.

[GerryNonDePlume]

Brady, Coleman, Stevens, Doherty and O'Dowda in the squad. They'll be 33, 36, 34, 33 and 29 respectively when the next campaign's in full swing. Four are injury prone and the other started about half-a-dozen games in the PL. It was left up to O'Shea whether he called up Duffy or not and of course he calls him up despite the fact he has a drink driving conviction hanging over him while in O'Brien you have a player with a similar profile on the upswing who's coming off a goal against PSG in a French Cup Final. I have no doubt he'd have McClean in the squad as well if he hadn't retired. Couple all of this with the fact O'Shea showed the exact same tactical, strategic and in-game limitations as Kenny in the previous two friendlies and I'm not looking forward to his appointment as permanent manager. It's an absolutely mindboggling squad in certain ways. I know lads like Roughan, Garcia-MacNulty, Lawal and Moran aren't the finished article but after over fifteen years of repeating the same mistakes in the past not gently disposing of players who [should've] aged out in terms of consideration, at some point you've got to start throwing lads in at the deep end. Just look at the tune Michael O'Neill is getting out of the young lads with NI. I watched the Romania game and they played some great stuff with boys who are further down the rung than Roughan and Garcia-MacNulty. I'm shouting against the wind here but succeeding Kenny as an International manager is not the right first step for O'Shea. He needs to do something at club level - any level - first. And that's not putting the cones out with poor performing teams like Reading and Birmingham.

[CSAD]

I wonder would this many players be out injured if Ireland had qualified for the Euros this summer...

We can talk about the quality of player available to us and the lack of a manager until the cows come home but the reality is if the players arent committed to the cause then we are going nowhere fast even if we had the Man City squad at our disposal.

[Razors left peg]

I wonder would this many players be out injured if Ireland had qualified for the Euros this summer...

We can talk about the quality of player available to us and the lack of a manager until the cows come home but the reality is if the players arent committed to the cause then we are going nowhere fast even if we had the Man City squad at our disposal.

I'm actually surprised as many have agreed to turn up as have. A lot would have been on the beach for last few weeks. Speaks well that so many have agreed to turn up for completely meaningless games when we don't even have a manager building for future. I thought Joe Lapria might get cap number 2 and 3 in these games

[Eirambler]

Harrington is an utterly bizzare call. If he wanted another goalkeeper, surely Jack Bonham was the obvious choice?

It's a fairly underwhelming squad but there's a lack of options out there really.

Saw a comment elsewhere online that O'Shea and Harrington share an agent (Stephen Hunt). Could explain it, or also be completely irrelevant. Was it Stan that was rumoured to have called up certain players because of a link to a particular agent?

[tetsujin1979]

I'm pretty sure Jason Byrne and Brian Kerr had the same agent when he was called up
He got one minute at the end of a friendly against Poland, and moved to Cardiff soon after.

[Eirambler]

A few players that Staunton capped had strong links with Pat Devlin, who was involved in the Ireland setup with Staunton at the time. Alan O'Brien in particular, who subsequently got a transfer to Hibs off the back of winning a few Ireland caps and proved to be nowhere near good enough for Hibs, never mind the Ireland team, which had a lot of good players in it at that time.

[John83]

Was Byrne not also the best striker in the LoI at the time, with a great scoring record and experience playing the likes of Juve for a dominant and fully pro Shels team? It was hardly the weirdest cap in the world, especially if Kerr had any romantic notions about promoting the league. I doubt Cardiff gave him a contract on the back of a minute for Ireland. Coincidences are inevitable in a community the size of Irish football, so I'm inclined to dismiss connections like that unless they come with an otherwise inexplicable decision.

On second thought, Byrne moved to Cardiff in 2007. The minute he got from Kerr was in April 2004. Grassy knoll territory.

[pineapple stu]

Crowe got a cap the previous year though. Between 03 and 04 they scored 84 league goals between them. I wouldn't get overly conspiratorial about a friendly cap apiece tbh

[tetsujin1979]

Sorry, didn't realise it was that much of a gap, I thought the move came soon after his debut

[JR89]

1797220980101681601

Mother of Christ.

[Olé Olé]

Concerning. He's showing these sort of leanings in picking Brady in the friendlies, calling up Stevens and Duffy, not playing O'Brien in the friendlies.

[pineapple stu]

Why would an interim manager do that? I know McClean was retired by Kenny to an extent (and partly by his decision to drop to the fourth tier) rather than chose to retire, but if McClean is to come back, that's surely a matter for the incoming manager, not an interim?

(Unless of course O'Shea is getting vibes he's going to get the gig full time...)

[John83]

I'm usually resistant to the age hysteria here (which often puts me in mind of Logan's Run) but this is just deeply uninspiring. McClean's whole schtick is running himself ragged. That doesn't age well, and if he went down an extra division for largely financial reasons, he's still maybe a league 1 winger these days. The squad isn't lacking in experience to the degree it was, and I don't really see the point of this.

We seem to be sleepwalking into replacing a bad manager with his green assistant. I fear a lucky result or a spirited defeat in the friendlies is going to be pretext for the search committee just giving up and taking the path of least resistance.

[Fixer82]

Honestly, I think this is just a slow news day story.
O’Shea playing it perfectly. He’s not insulting his former teammate by dismissing him but also he’s not calling him up.
There’s nothing to this.

[tetsujin1979]

Hungary squad for the euros was named a few weeks ago. Four players(Martin Ádám, Dániel Gazdag, Bendeguz Bolla and Callum Styles) have not joined the squad yet, so will not face Ireland
https://en.mlsz.hu/hir/experience-and-familiarity-characterise-hungarys-euro-2024-squad

[Predator]

Concerning. He's showing these sort of leanings in picking Brady in the friendlies, calling up Stevens and Duffy, not playing O'Brien in the friendlies.
Brady (and 35-year-old Coleman) were among the best players in the last window. He's also one of the few players in the squad who can put a decent ball into the box, something that has been a weakness in recent years. It might just be that the older players are still the best players available.

I would doubt McClean will return. He called it a day on his own terms and even got a send-off game (even if he complained about it!)

[elatedscum]

Lawal replaces Omobamidele who picked up an injury in training

[Predator]

Had noticed Omobamidele was missing from the combined MNT and WNT photo all right.

[CSAD]

Wonder would Omobamidele been "injured" if there was a Euros coming up for Ireland...again commitment levels are showing.

[pineapple stu]

Lawal replaces Omobamidele who picked up an injury in training
There's been a lot of comments here that Lawal is a centre-mid and really not a centre-back, and criticism of Crawford for playing him there at 21s. I haven't seen him play so I don't really know - though his ratings in the weekly ratings thread did improve markedly when I think he was moved to centre-mid at club level - but is it a bit concerning he's being called up to replace a centre-back? Or is that reading too much into things as it seems he was going to be called up for the second half of the week anyway?

[Predator]

In the context of the debate around integrating younger players into the squad/starting XI, an interesting exercise is to compare the current senior and U21 squads. Who would win if they played a match? Are there any players who would be good enough to displace an existing senior player, based on form, level they are at and so on?

Senior MNT
GKs: C. Kelleher, M. Travers, M. O'Leary, D. Harrington
DFs: S. Coleman, S. Duffy. R. Brady, M. Doherty, E. Stevens, D. O'Shea, L. Scales, J. O'Brien, B. Lawal
MFs: J. Cullen, C. O'Dowda, J. Knight, J. McGrath, M. Johnston, W. Smallbone, M. Sykes, F. Azaz
FWs: A. Idah, T. Parrott, M. Obafemi, S. Szmodics, T. Cannon

U21 MNT
GKs: T. Brooks, K. Cahill, J. Keeley
DFs: J. Abankwah, S. Curtis, A. Garcia MacNulty, A. Murphy, C. O'Brien, C. O'Riordain, S. Roughan
MFs: B. Adeeko, M. Healy, J. Hodge, A. Moran, C. Noonan, R. Vata
FWs: S. Armstrong, A. Emakhu, C. Kavanagh, J. Kenny, M. O'Mahony, O. O'Neill, A. Oko-Flex, T. Springett

[CraftyToePoke]

O'Shea wants clarity

Asked if he expected clarity over the managerial situation after this window, O’Shea replied, “Yeah, let’s hope so. I think everyone, including myself, the staff, the players, everyone would like clarity on it.

The balls on Canham

Marc [Canham, FAI director of football] was in and around it [camp] for a couple of days,”

----------------

Etc : https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/everyone-would-like-clarity-on-it-interim-boss-john-oshea-expects-decision-on-his-position-after-friendlies/a461992768.html

[JR89]

There's been a lot of comments here that Lawal is a centre-mid and really not a centre-back, and criticism of Crawford for playing him there at 21s. I haven't seen him play so I don't really know - though his ratings in the weekly ratings thread did improve markedly when I think he was moved to centre-mid at club level - but is it a bit concerning he's being called up to replace a centre-back? Or is that reading too much into things as it seems he was going to be called up for the second half of the week anyway?

Had a similar thinking at first when it was announced he's replacing Omobamidele. But it's only for the Hungary match and then he goes back to the U21s. Probably just out of convenience that he was picked as he's already with the squad.

If nobody replaces him in the senior squad for the Portugal game you wonder what was the point in even announcing he's replacing Omobamidele. He was already with the squad until the Hungary game. I'm sure it's great to officially get his first call up but just means he'll join up with the U21s on Wednesday rather than tomorrow.

Doubt we'll see him make the match day squad and Coleman will cover CB to give him five CBs. I'd say there's more chance of Enda Stevens playing CB than Lawal.

[elatedscum]

There's been a lot of comments here that Lawal is a centre-mid and really not a centre-back, and criticism of Crawford for playing him there at 21s. I haven't seen him play so I don't really know - though his ratings in the weekly ratings thread did improve markedly when I think he was moved to centre-mid at club level - but is it a bit concerning he's being called up to replace a centre-back? Or is that reading too much into things as it seems he was going to be called up for the second half of the week anyway?

He looks excellent at League 1 in both positions. I think it’s kind of like a young Paul McGrath or a young Declan Rice, not that I’m comparing him ability wise to either, just that he looks excellent playing both but not the finished article in either position. Probably reckon that long term, he’ll end up being a midfielder, just because he has the ability to drive past players with ease and the footballing brain and range of passing are good enough to make it there - but it could easily go the other way, he has all the attributes to be a top centre half too.

Once again, not comparing, but Virgil Van Dijk could have been an excellent midfielder, his calmness on the ball, his pace, aerial prowess, his passing range, ability to go past players, out muscle them, his awareness of his surroundings. In another world, he’s Yaya Toure or whatever - but instead he’s the best centre half in the world. Equally Yaya Toure was a centre back for Barcelona (winning the champions league final) before becoming a world class midfielder.

There’s a certain class of player that just has everything to play both positions without any obvious weaknesses to their game

[SkStu]

In the context of the debate around integrating younger players into the squad/starting XI, an interesting exercise is to compare the current senior and U21 squads. Who would win if they played a match? Are there any players who would be good enough to displace an existing senior player, based on form, level they are at and so on?

Senior MNT
GKs: C. Kelleher, M. Travers, M. O'Leary, D. Harrington
DFs: S. Coleman, S. Duffy. R. Brady, M. Doherty, E. Stevens, D. O'Shea, L. Scales, J. O'Brien, B. Lawal
MFs: J. Cullen, C. O'Dowda, J. Knight, J. McGrath, M. Johnston, W. Smallbone, M. Sykes, F. Azaz
FWs: A. Idah, T. Parrott, M. Obafemi, S. Szmodics, T. Cannon

U21 MNT
GKs: T. Brooks, K. Cahill, J. Keeley
DFs: J. Abankwah, S. Curtis, A. Garcia MacNulty, A. Murphy, C. O'Brien, C. O'Riordain, S. Roughan
MFs: B. Adeeko, M. Healy, J. Hodge, A. Moran, C. Noonan, R. Vata
FWs: S. Armstrong, A. Emakhu, C. Kavanagh, J. Kenny, M. O'Mahony, O. O'Neill, A. Oko-Flex, T. Springett

Ignoring Harrington... I would say only Moran for McGrath. Possibly Garcia-MacNulty for Stevens. I recognize both squads are missing a few of the usual suspects but it does show up a lack of depth if you ask me. Really hoping Murphy and O'Riordan push on next season at club level.

[John83]

In the context of the debate around integrating younger players into the squad/starting XI, an interesting exercise is to compare the current senior and U21 squads. Who would win if they played a match?
If that's ever close, we should be competing to win an U21 continental or world title. It's literally men against boys.

[Razors left peg]

There's been a lot of comments here that Lawal is a centre-mid and really not a centre-back, and criticism of Crawford for playing him there at 21s. I haven't seen him play so I don't really know - though his ratings in the weekly ratings thread did improve markedly when I think he was moved to centre-mid at club level - but is it a bit concerning he's being called up to replace a centre-back? Or is that reading too much into things as it seems he was going to be called up for the second half of the week anyway?


Not even seen him for our U21s? Hes played 5 times. Also 5 U19s games.

[Razors left peg]

He looks excellent at League 1 in both positions. I think it’s kind of like a young Paul McGrath or a young Declan Rice, not that I’m comparing him ability wise to either, just that he looks excellent playing both but not the finished article in either position. Probably reckon that long term, he’ll end up being a midfielder, just because he has the ability to drive past players with ease and the footballing brain and range of passing are good enough to make it there - but it could easily go the other way, he has all the attributes to be a top centre half too.

Once again, not comparing, but Virgil Van Dijk could have been an excellent midfielder, his calmness on the ball, his pace, aerial prowess, his passing range, ability to go past players, out muscle them, his awareness of his surroundings. In another world, he’s Yaya Toure or whatever - but instead he’s the best centre half in the world. Equally Yaya Toure was a centre back for Barcelona (winning the champions league final) before becoming a world class midfielder.

There’s a certain class of player that just has everything to play both positions without any obvious weaknesses to their game

When you seen Lawal on the pitch even for Fleetwood he stands out a mile for his sheer size. I have massive hopes that he could be the player we've been crying out for in midfield. As you said, his ability to carry the ball forward from midfield is something we really dont have. Good passer of the ball too.

Delighted to see him get called up. Wouldnt be one to start just yet, but it wont be long if he starts next season well. Good complication video below for those who havent seen much of him...


1795737446430527867

[pineapple stu]

Not even seen him for our U21s? Hes played 5 times. Also 5 U19s games.
Maybe once against San Marino now that you mention it. Not really a game too judge a defender though. Little enough interest in the underage games tbh; will keep an eye on the more knowledgeable posters' comments here on them, but that's about it. Let them break through at (decent) club level and then see if they're worth a senior call-up

[CraftyToePoke]

Maybe once against San Marino now that you mention it. Not really a game too judge a defender though. Little enough interest in the underage games tbh; will keep an eye on the more knowledgeable posters' comments here on them, but that's about it. Let them break through at (decent) club level and then see if they're worth a senior call-up


I guess I'm a bit world weary when it comes to hearing how great our options coming through are. Emakhu and Armstrong are too early in their careers yet to judge - six league goals between them in about 120 games (including LoI and even LoI First Division for Emakhu) isn't exactly setting the world alight, though I know they're only 20. It's not clear if Fraser wants to play for us. O'Mahony is a long way off doing anything, and Cannon may yet be a flash in the pan - it's certainly not clear what his ceiling is. Only Ferguson is worth getting genuinely excited over right now I think. Parrott at last looks like someone has put 4000 volts through him; hopefully it'll continue.

I'd take England's Jonathan Rowe over all of them bar Ferguson to be honest - he's easily outshone Idah in his first season at Norwich for example, and was unfortunate for it to end with injury. Bynoe-Gittens played in the Champions League final (I think he's more a winger than a striker, though these days that's arguably all part of the front three), as did Moukoko of Germany. Denmark's Chido Obi (at Arsenal) is arguably the most exciting attacking prospect in the world right now, way ahead of any of our lot.

And then as Eirambler says, along comes someone like Szmodics and makes the in-depth analysis of underage teams a bit redundant!

So you don't watch them or have that much overall interest but you'll engage as you did above & say O'Mahony is a long way from doing anything etc ?

[elatedscum]

If you’re looking for a highlights vid, this is pretty good cause it’s about 50/50 centre midfielder / centre back. The usual caveats about highlights vids apply

https://youtu.be/f7uUVrdosgw?si=69yhH48N9_FkrfBa

[elatedscum]

If that's ever close, we should be competing to win an U21 continental or world title. It's literally men against boys.

I think the interesting question is at what point does it turn. If you look at the Stephen Kenny u21s side and later, I think they're the better team (so born 1998 and after). But I think if you go the next group on, so 2000 and later, you pick the older team.

So 1998 and younger:

1998 and younger


Kelleher


O’Shea
Collins
O’Brien/Omobamidele/Scales
Garcia McNulty


Molumby/Hodge/Lawal
Smallbone
Knight/Azaz/Sykes


Ebosele/Farrugia/Armstrong
Ferguson/Idah/Parrott/Obafemi/Cannon
Johnston/Connolly


vs

1997 and older:


O’Leary


Doherty/Coleman
Egan
Duffy
Brady/Manning


Cullen
Browne
McGrath


Ogbene
Szmodics
O’Dowda/Robinson


----------

Whereas I'd take the older team when you go down to 2000+

1999 and older:


Kelleher


Doherty/Coleman
O’Shea
Egan/Duffy/Scales
Manning/Brady


Cullen
Molumby/Browne
McGrath


Ogbene
Szmodics
Johnston

vs

2000 and younger:


Bazunu


Lyons/O’Connor/Curtis
Collins
O’Brien/Omobamidele
Garcia McNulty


Hodge/Lawal/Coventry/Connell/Kilkenny
Smallbone
Knight/Azaz


Ebosele/Armstrong
Ferguson/Idah/Parrott/Obafemi/Cannon
Connolly

[pineapple stu]

So you don't watch them or have that much overall interest but you'll engage as you did above & say O'Mahony is a long way from doing anything etc ?
Yes, O'Mahony is a long way off doing anything yet. We've seen plenty of players make a few sub appearances (or even more substantial contributions) in the PL but fade away. Absolutely fair dues to him getting a couple of PL games at 19 but in terms of someone we should be getting actively excited about; someone about whom you could reasonably say "very few countries in the world if any have a list of strikers eligible for 21s that's as exciting as what we have"? Not yet. He's done what Joe Hodge and Conor Coventry have done before him for example (and they were talked up here at the time too)

All in my view obviously; if you have a view to the contrary you're free to make it

[elatedscum]

Yes, O'Mahony is a long way off doing anything yet. We've seen plenty of players make a few sub appearances (or even more substantial contributions) in the PL but fade away. Absolutely fair dues to him getting a couple of PL games at 19 but in terms of someone we should be getting actively excited about; someone about whom you could reasonably say "very few countries in the world if any have a list of strikers eligible for 21s that's as exciting as what we have"? Not yet. He's done what Joe Hodge and Conor Coventry have done before him for example (and they were talked up here at the time too)

All in my view obviously; if you have a view to the contrary you're free to make it




Yeah but Mark is like 6th or 7th in a list - and yet he’s a teenager who’s started in the premier league. And he’d get into the majority of u21 international squads - where you’ve normally got 3 centre forwards.




Evan Ferguson - total phenom. Injury riddled season which sapped his confidence, but apart from pace, he’s pretty much the complete striker. Excellent intelligent build up play, scores with both feet, with his head. In the very top tier of teenage strikers in the world
Troy Parrott - a very good loan under the belt where he scored 17 for Excelsior. Many of us would remember that preseason at age 17 against Juve, Real Madrid and United, where he was exceptional. Finally looks like realising the potential after a few tough loans in the championship. Similarly not the fastest but a technically better footballer than Ferguson.
Tom Cannon - bought for £7.5m + sell on fee by Leicester a year ago, on the back of an excellent loan at Preston, where he outplayed Parrott. Fast, direct, strong and a good finisher, also good movement and good strikers instincts.
Sinclair Armstrong - not the most prolific. He’s been the 21s first choice striker this campaign. But he’s absolute unit. He’s so strong, fast, powerful, and he’s an absolute nightmare to defend against. He’s caused so much grief to some really good defences (Italy u21s in particular). The physical attributes are Nunez-esque, he just powers past defenders at pace with such ease.
Emakhu - might end up being a winger, but he’s played up front as part of Crawford’s 5-3-2 most of the campaign. Arguably been the 21s best player so far this campaign, quick reactions, presses well, fast, decent link up play, good movement, a quick change of direction and a good finisher. Wouldn’t be too worried about the goalscoring record at Millwall. He hasn’t been playing up front for them, they’ve played him out wide and even in midfield. He also hasn't really gotten the consistent minutes. Besides, Millwall score **** all, I’d say they’re one of the lowest scoring teams in the championship. He’s only 20 and he’s a breakout season away from being someone that everyone is really excited about.
Mark O’Mahony - absolutely prolific at underage level for Ireland. He signed for Brighton last season from Cork and in less than a year he was making match day squads, and in his first full season at the club, he’d made first premier league start. He does have a huge way to go, but he’s 3 years younger than Troy and the progress he’s made so far has been excellent. No certainties but there’s a reason he’s scored all those goals at youth level
Nathan Fraser - similarly another teenager with premier league experience, he’s got a lot of similar attributes to Tom Cannon but he’s a couple of years younger. He was excellent against Brentford in the cup - and there’s real potential there. He hasn’t quite made it stick at Wolves but he was 18/19 year old playing in what was then a top half team. It’s not an easy breakthrough to make. Sure maybe he'll defect to England - but as we've seen with Tom Cannon - I wouldn't worried about that until it happens.
As a bonus, I’ll throw in Johnny Kenny. You could easily write him off but he does have the best goals to minutes ratio in the League of Ireland this season, which at age 20, is pretty impressive. Long way to go to being seriously thought about at senior level but he’s finally beginning to look like a good player again after regressing at Celtic. Even if he's unlikely to make the grade, as an 8th player in a position where you need 3 options in a squad, it’s not bad at all.



Genuinely the depth of attacking talent there is impressive. I really think it stands up 1-8 against most other countries (specifically for centre forwards - Evan will be better than almost all #1s, Troy will be better than most #2s and so on, all the way down). I get the Jonathan Rowe appreciation, but he’s a winger and I was very specifically and intentionally talking about strikers, centre forwards, not wingers - as best as one can make that distinction.


I remember not so long ago, watching an u21s team, where the most exciting striker was Reece Grego Cox. He was our first choice. His backup was Joe Quigley. Both were playing in the Conference (and they still are). We’ve come a long long long way since then… And the issue we've seen over the last number of years at senior level have more to do with the issues we had developing players during that period (players born between 1993 and 1997) than it has to do with anything else...

[Razors left peg]

Yeah but Mark is like 6th or 7th in a list - and yet he’s a teenager who’s started in the premier league. And he’d get into the majority of u21 international squads - where you’ve normally got 3 centre forwards.




Evan Ferguson - total phenom. Injury riddled season which sapped his confidence, but apart from pace, he’s pretty much the complete striker. Excellent intelligent build up play, scores with both feet, with his head. In the very top tier of teenage strikers in the world
Troy Parrott - a very good loan under the belt where he scored 17 for Excelsior. Many of us would remember that preseason at age 17 against Juve, Real Madrid and United, where he was exceptional. Finally looks like realising the potential after a few tough loans in the championship. Similarly not the fastest but a technically better footballer than Ferguson.
Tom Cannon - bought for £7.5m + sell on fee by Leicester a year ago, on the back of an excellent loan at Preston, where he outplayed Parrott. Fast, direct, strong and a good finisher, also good movement and good strikers instincts.
Sinclair Armstrong - not the most prolific. He’s been the 21s first choice striker this campaign. But he’s absolute unit. He’s so strong, fast, powerful, and he’s an absolute nightmare to defend against. He’s caused so much grief to some really good defences (Italy u21s in particular). The physical attributes are Nunez-esque, he just powers past defenders at pace with such ease.
Emakhu - might end up being a winger, but he’s played up front as part of Crawford’s 5-3-2 most of the campaign. Arguably been the 21s best player so far this campaign, quick reactions, presses well, fast, decent link up play, good movement, a quick change of direction and a good finisher. Wouldn’t be too worried about the goalscoring record at Millwall. He hasn’t been playing up front for them, they’ve played him out wide and even in midfield. He also hasn't really gotten the consistent minutes. Besides, Millwall score **** all, I’d say they’re one of the lowest scoring teams in the championship. He’s only 20 and he’s a breakout season away from being someone that everyone is really excited about.
Mark O’Mahony - absolutely prolific at underage level for Ireland. He signed for Brighton last season from Cork and in less than a year he was making match day squads, and in his first full season at the club, he’d made first premier league start. He does have a huge way to go, but he’s 3 years younger than Troy and the progress he’s made so far has been excellent. No certainties but there’s a reason he’s scored all those goals at youth level
Nathan Fraser - similarly another teenager with premier league experience, he’s got a lot of similar attributes to Tom Cannon but he’s a couple of years younger. He was excellent against Brentford in the cup - and there’s real potential there. He hasn’t quite made it stick at Wolves but he was 18/19 year old playing in what was then a top half team. It’s not an easy breakthrough to make. Sure maybe he'll defect to England - but as we've seen with Tom Cannon - I wouldn't worried about that until it happens.
As a bonus, I’ll throw in Johnny Kenny. You could easily write him off but he does have the best goals to minutes ratio in the League of Ireland this season, which at age 20, is pretty impressive. Long way to go to being seriously thought about at senior level but he’s finally beginning to look like a good player again after regressing at Celtic. Even if he's unlikely to make the grade, as an 8th player in a position where you need 3 options in a squad, it’s not bad at all.



Genuinely the depth of attacking talent there is impressive. I really think it stands up 1-8 against most other countries (specifically for centre forwards - Evan will be better than almost all #1s, Troy will be better than most #2s and so on, all the way down). I get the Jonathan Rowe appreciation, but he’s a winger and I was very specifically and intentionally talking about strikers, centre forwards, not wingers - as best as one can make that distinction.


I remember not so long ago, watching an u21s team, where the most exciting striker was Reece Grego Cox. He was our first choice. His backup was Joe Quigley. Both were playing in the Conference (and they still are). We’ve come a long long long way since then… And the issue we've seen over the last number of years at senior level have more to do with the issues we had developing players during that period (players born between 1993 and 1997) than it has to do with anything else...

That's a super post, and shows there's genuine hope for a bright future

[CraftyToePoke]

Yeah but Mark is like 6th or 7th in a list - and yet he’s a teenager who’s started in the premier league. And he’d get into the majority of u21 international squads - where you’ve normally got 3 centre forwards.

Nice post. Informative and knowledgeable. The kind of contribution that encourages visits to the forum.

& in stark contrast to the poster you're replying to who basically nests daily on most topics but turns out he doesn't watch them & actually has minimal interest in the 21s.

[pineapple stu]

It's all a bit aspirational though, isn't it?

I mean, I wouldn't worry about Fraser until he accepts a call-up to be honest. Millwall don't score many goals, but that's not the attacker's fault? Armstrong may give grief to defences but in the San Marino game I watched, he hadn't a notion where the net was. (He was credited with a goal which to be honest he more tried to keep out). O'Mahony is prolific at underage level - but we've seen before it's a big step up to the senior game. And Johnny Kenny? Come on. You think players who can't make it in the Scottish second tier aren't dime a dozen?

That's not too write the guys off - though law of averages says they won't all make it at the required level for international football - but to give some perspective, particularly in the context of us being as well stacked in this area as any other country in the world, which is a big claim. Have we guys coming through worth keeping an eye on? Absolutely. But that's not what the claim was.

I'm sure Crafty, you'll agree I don't need to be watching every underage game, notepad in hand and anorak on, to suggest that 19 year olds playing the Champions League final are slightly ahead of our lot?

We're not long removed from claims Connolly and Obafemi and Afolabi and others were all 45 goal international forwards in the making, or that Conor Coventry and Joe Hodge were unbelievable omissions from the national squad. I'll settle for a bit of caution when it comes to big statements I think.

[CSAD]

Yeah but Mark is like 6th or 7th in a list - and yet he’s a teenager who’s started in the premier league. And he’d get into the majority of u21 international squads - where you’ve normally got 3 centre forwards.




Evan Ferguson - total phenom. Injury riddled season which sapped his confidence, but apart from pace, he’s pretty much the complete striker. Excellent intelligent build up play, scores with both feet, with his head. In the very top tier of teenage strikers in the world
Troy Parrott - a very good loan under the belt where he scored 17 for Excelsior. Many of us would remember that preseason at age 17 against Juve, Real Madrid and United, where he was exceptional. Finally looks like realising the potential after a few tough loans in the championship. Similarly not the fastest but a technically better footballer than Ferguson.
Tom Cannon - bought for £7.5m + sell on fee by Leicester a year ago, on the back of an excellent loan at Preston, where he outplayed Parrott. Fast, direct, strong and a good finisher, also good movement and good strikers instincts.
Sinclair Armstrong - not the most prolific. He’s been the 21s first choice striker this campaign. But he’s absolute unit. He’s so strong, fast, powerful, and he’s an absolute nightmare to defend against. He’s caused so much grief to some really good defences (Italy u21s in particular). The physical attributes are Nunez-esque, he just powers past defenders at pace with such ease.
Emakhu - might end up being a winger, but he’s played up front as part of Crawford’s 5-3-2 most of the campaign. Arguably been the 21s best player so far this campaign, quick reactions, presses well, fast, decent link up play, good movement, a quick change of direction and a good finisher. Wouldn’t be too worried about the goalscoring record at Millwall. He hasn’t been playing up front for them, they’ve played him out wide and even in midfield. He also hasn't really gotten the consistent minutes. Besides, Millwall score **** all, I’d say they’re one of the lowest scoring teams in the championship. He’s only 20 and he’s a breakout season away from being someone that everyone is really excited about.
Mark O’Mahony - absolutely prolific at underage level for Ireland. He signed for Brighton last season from Cork and in less than a year he was making match day squads, and in his first full season at the club, he’d made first premier league start. He does have a huge way to go, but he’s 3 years younger than Troy and the progress he’s made so far has been excellent. No certainties but there’s a reason he’s scored all those goals at youth level
Nathan Fraser - similarly another teenager with premier league experience, he’s got a lot of similar attributes to Tom Cannon but he’s a couple of years younger. He was excellent against Brentford in the cup - and there’s real potential there. He hasn’t quite made it stick at Wolves but he was 18/19 year old playing in what was then a top half team. It’s not an easy breakthrough to make. Sure maybe he'll defect to England - but as we've seen with Tom Cannon - I wouldn't worried about that until it happens.
As a bonus, I’ll throw in Johnny Kenny. You could easily write him off but he does have the best goals to minutes ratio in the League of Ireland this season, which at age 20, is pretty impressive. Long way to go to being seriously thought about at senior level but he’s finally beginning to look like a good player again after regressing at Celtic. Even if he's unlikely to make the grade, as an 8th player in a position where you need 3 options in a squad, it’s not bad at all.



Genuinely the depth of attacking talent there is impressive. I really think it stands up 1-8 against most other countries (specifically for centre forwards - Evan will be better than almost all #1s, Troy will be better than most #2s and so on, all the way down). I get the Jonathan Rowe appreciation, but he’s a winger and I was very specifically and intentionally talking about strikers, centre forwards, not wingers - as best as one can make that distinction.


I remember not so long ago, watching an u21s team, where the most exciting striker was Reece Grego Cox. He was our first choice. His backup was Joe Quigley. Both were playing in the Conference (and they still are). We’ve come a long long long way since then… And the issue we've seen over the last number of years at senior level have more to do with the issues we had developing players during that period (players born between 1993 and 1997) than it has to do with anything else...


Nail on the head and what I've been saying for so long. Remember watching Euro 2016 + WC 2018 qualifiers and the likes of Richie Sadlier & Liam Brady were on air consistently banging the drum about "we've nothing coming through" and we consistently had one of the oldest squads in Europe, well the last 3-4 years have been a direct result of that with having little to no players coming through from the 1993-1997 age group. You can see we are starting to come out of it now and hopefully when we do eventually come out of it we stay out of it which I am confident we will as we have a nice steady flow of players coming through in pretty much every age group, some groups better than others ofcourse, so I am confident once we find our feet things will only improve.

[Exgrad]

We're not long removed from claims Connolly and Obafemi and Afolabi and others were all 45 goal international forwards in the making, or that Conor Coventry and Joe Hodge were unbelievable omissions from the national squad. I'll settle for a bit of caution when it comes to big statements I think.

Id be amazed if anyone thought Afolabi was going to be a 45 goal international, he had been released by Southampton.. And was anyone crying over Coventry not making squads? I know a few shouting for Hodge, but that was the usual nonsense with a promising dual nationality player. Connolly the only one who people were really excited about, and not without reason.

[tetsujin1979]

Match day squad announced. Travers omitted for some reason
1797929800885026984

[Predator]

If that's ever close, we should be competing to win an U21 continental or world title. It's literally men against boys.I agree. There's a huge step up to senior football, which shouldn't be underestimated. Even top class talents need time to get to grips with it, physically and mentally. As much as new generations naturally need to be brought through, it bemuses me to see people being so quick to write off our best and most experienced players so glibly. In recent years, for example, some our fans would have us believe that, while Seamus Coleman was deemed good enough for Everton in the Premier League, he was no longer good enough for Ireland, as if we have the luxury of overlooking such players. Even heavyweights like Portugal and Italy have relied on their elder, tried and tested players. Pepe is 41, Ronaldo is 39, yet are still key for Portugal heading to Euro 2024. Italy won a European Championship three years ago with aging Chiellini and Bonucci at the back. Looking back at our own history, Staunton was 33 at the 2002 World Cup, Quinn was 35. Stan captained the team, Quinn caused havoc vs Germany and Spain. All of that is to say that I don't think there is much unusual or concerning about O'Shea calling up such players - it's about striking balance.

[JR89]

Match day squad announced. Travers omitted for some reason
1797929800885026984

Did he join back up with the squad after his wedding?

[tetsujin1979]

Did he join back up with the squad after his wedding?
That's right, it was part of the squad announcement that he'd be late joining up

[John83]

Id be amazed if anyone thought Afolabi was going to be a 45 goal international, he had been released by Southampton.. And was anyone carying over Coventry not making squads? I know a few shouting for Hodge, but that was the usual nonsense with a promsiing dual nationality player. Connolly the only one who people were really excited about, and not without reason.
I distinctly remember a poster arguing that 3 of our teenaged strikers - Connolly and Parrott were two, I think, but I'm not sure of the third - argue that they were all going to score 45 goals for us. I remember it because I thought it was both quite a specific number and one of the more delusional things I'd read all year. Unfortunately, the search function seems to ignore numbers in search strings and it could have been on any number of threads. Let's not pretend people haven't been hyping players here as long as the site has been open. Some are more measured than others. A wait and see attitude with teens is broadly pretty sensible. Even the best of them can wither on the vine. It's understandable that that grates from time to time, but so too does the hype.

[JR89]

That's right, it was part of the squad announcement that he'd be late joining up

Would assume Cullen being a nailed on starter he would have returned asap after his wedding. So wonder if Travers was told no rush as he's gonna be second choice this window.

[JR89]

I distinctly remember a poster arguing that 3 of our teenaged strikers - Connolly and Parrott were two, I think, but I'm not sure of the third - argue that they were all going to score 45 goals for us. I remember it because I thought it was both quite a specific number and one of the more delusional things I'd read all year. Unfortunately, the search function seems to ignore numbers in search strings and it could have been on any number of threads. Let's not pretend people haven't been hyping players here as long as the site has been open. Some are more measured than others. A wait and see attitude with teens is broadly pretty sensible. Even the best of them can wither on the vine. It's understandable that that grates from time to time, but so too does the hype.

Do you mean 45 goals each or combined they could score 45 goals for us. Because I do remember something before were someone was talking about Parrott, and two others how combined they could get 45 goals between them.

[Eirambler]

Surprised Travers hasn't made it, I mean if Cullen made it back from the wedding in time there's no excuse for Travers really... :)

A very good post above regarding our developing strikers, would agree with almost all of it other than I would be cooler on Fraser's prospects regardless of which country he chooses and I think Kenny has a virtually 0% chance of ever being an established senior international for us. Also worth remembering that Idah as a 2001 born player is less than a year older than the oldest player on that list.

Just on Lawal, there was a suggestion among Celtic supporters that Rodgers was unimpressed with their youth coaches trying to turn him into a centre back and very much sees him as a central midfielder. Could be nonsense but hopefully not, it's as clear as day to me that that's his natural position.

[pineapple stu]

I distinctly remember a poster arguing that 3 of our teenaged strikers - Connolly and Parrott were two, I think, but I'm not sure of the third - argue that they were all going to score 45 goals for us. I remember it because I thought it was both quite a specific number and one of the more delusional things I'd read all year. Unfortunately, the search function seems to ignore numbers in search strings and it could have been on any number of threads. Let's not pretend people haven't been hyping players here as long as the site has been open. Some are more measured than others. A wait and see attitude with teens is broadly pretty sensible. Even the best of them can wither on the vine. It's understandable that that grates from time to time, but so too does the hype.
I think it was more than 3 players, but I can't find it searching either (even though I remember who the poster was). And it was 45 goals each alright. Doesn't matter anyway. Here's a thread from 2018 (https://foot.ie/threads/229379-First-teenage-striker-to-score-in-the-Premier-League?highlight=afolabi) which I think shows the danger of getting too far ahead of things.

For what it's worth, if you look at the top scorers in the PL2 in 2018/19 (five years ago), they're a very mixed bunch -

Aaron Connolly (top scorer) - increasingly looks like he hasn't the aptitude to make it at the top level
Liam Cullen - solid Championship player with Swansea. 1 cap for Wales, and in the June squads
Eddie Nketiah - increasingly involved at Arsenal, though likely to be moving on in the summer. 1 cap for England.
Bassala Sambou - seems to be unattached; hasn't played since April last year, when he was with Oldham in the fifth tier
Jack Roles - a squad player at Crawley
Rafael Camacho - also unattached since 2023, when he was a squad player at Aris in Greece
Cameron Cresswell - was at Waterford last year. Not sure where he is now
Viktor Gyokeres - banging in the goals the last three years - 40 for Coventry in two seasons and 45 for Sporting Lisbon this season. 20 caps for Sweden
Xande Silva - MLS with Atlanta United
Joe Powell - Burton Albion
Nabili Zoubdi - Atletico Madrid reserves in the Spanish third tier.

Other years will likely be similar (I just picked that one cos it was 5 years ago and that's a round number). The reality is that's the odds even the better PL2 players are up against.