Mason Melia F St Pats b.2007

[JR89]

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Scored the equaliser and picked up the motm award too in St Pat's game against Shams. Keeper slipping definitely helps Melia but still has a lot to do to score and does so with a really good finish.

[liamoo11]

1789025709723156594

Scored the equaliser and picked up the motm award too in St Pat's game against Shams. Keeper slipping definitely helps Melia but still has a lot to do to score and does so with a really good finish.

It's great he has got so much game time for pats. He is even at this age by far their best frontman but still brave of them.to play him. Hopefully they get rewarded with him been a millon euro transfer when he goes at 18

[Olé Olé]

Stephen Kenny in talks to become his next manager at St Pat's which will be very interesting. Hopefully he can aid his development even further.

[JR89]

Reports that Celtic are leading the race to sign Melia. Brighton also reported to be preparing a bid.

[CSAD]

Reports that Celtic are leading the race to sign Melia. Brighton also reported to be preparing a bid.

"Although Brighton are also in a strong position to secure his signature, he may be convinced that he has a clear pathway to the first team at Celtic "


I can't upload it but the meme "when I lied on the internet" comes to mind.

Hopefully Melia isnt as stupid as the rest of the Irish players that signed there and stays well clear.

[JR89]

Thankfully wouldn't be able to join Celtic until he's 18 so won't be stuck playing against pub teams with their B team. Someone like Brighton though could get around the rules by using their sister club in Belgium. City too as they were once linked. Supposedly has been over to Spurs already on trials.

[Razors left peg]

At least the clubs hes being linked with are more realistic now, he was linked with Man City for a while. Even at only 16 I think he'd need to be getting more goals in the LOI if he was to be in with a realistic chance of moving to an elite club and making it to the 1st team.

Its a harsh assessment to say a 16 year old should be doing more, but in the context of what young players who make the break through at top clubs do early I think the standard in the LOI at the moment is of a low enough level that Melia only having 3 goals in 29 games doesnt stand out as being someone who makes it into Man Citys squad. Man United just signed a Danish 16 year old kid from Arsenal and promised him that hes going to be 3rd choice striker this season. Thats the type of player Melia at 16 is measured against with elite clubs.

Im not writing off Melia by any means, but if he goes on to be as good as Kevin Doyle that is a massive success.

[CSAD]

At least the clubs hes being linked with are more realistic now, he was linked with Man City for a while. Even at only 16 I think he'd need to be getting more goals in the LOI if he was to be in with a realistic chance of moving to an elite club and making it to the 1st team.

Its a harsh assessment to say a 16 year old should be doing more, but in the context of what young players who make the break through at top clubs do early I think the standard in the LOI at the moment is of a low enough level that Melia only having 3 goals in 29 games doesnt stand out as being someone who makes it into Man Citys squad. Man United just signed a Danish 16 year old kid from Arsenal and promised him that hes going to be 3rd choice striker this season. Thats the type of player Melia at 16 is measured against with elite clubs.

Im not writing off Melia by any means, but if he goes on to be as good as Kevin Doyle that is a massive success.

Not really, Haaland as a 16 year old for instance, wasn't even scoring goals in the 2nd division in Norway at a similar age... never mind Ferguson who didnt start for Bohemians and only clocked about 100 minutes at a similar age. The standard isn't really relevant, the fact is he's starting regularly in mens football in a demanding position, it take's a lot of mental strength and resilience to be able to do that, not to mention talent. He obviously isnt going to make it into the Man City squad for awhile if/when he arrives but thinking he cant get to that standard because he's only scoring 3 goals in the LOI as a 16 year old is showing a very fair poor understand of how these clubs asses youth players.

The point overall though is even if he was never good enough to make it for City, I am far more confident in them improving him as a player than I am Celtic...which is why if its a choice between the two the choice should be a no brainer.

And for the record, he is still being linked to Man City. it's just Celtic are the most recent team to come into the picture.

Chido is an exception rather than the rule, and no that isn't who he's measured against that's just United trying to copy the Ferguson era like they have a tendency to do.

[CSAD]

Thankfully wouldn't be able to join Celtic until he's 18 so won't be stuck playing against pub teams with their B team. Someone like Brighton though could get around the rules by using their sister club in Belgium. City too as they were once linked. Supposedly has been over to Spurs already on trials.

Thankfully I dont think Melia is as stupid as the likes of Afolabi & Kenny are and I suspect he'll have enough sense to know better.

I remember after the last Euro's the media stating that he's keen on the English route so I'm still fairly sure that's the route he'll take.

[Bungle]

Not really, Haaland as a 16 year old for instance, wasn't even scoring goals in the 2nd division in Norway at a similar age... never mind Ferguson who didnt start for Bohemians and only clocked about 100 minutes at a similar age. The standard isn't really relevant, the fact is he's starting regularly in mens football in a demanding position, it take's a lot of mental strength and resilience to be able to do that, not to mention talent. He obviously isnt going to make it into the Man City squad for awhile if/when he arrives but thinking he cant get to that standard because he's only scoring 3 goals in the LOI as a 16 year old is showing a very fair poor understand of how these clubs asses youth players.

The point overall though is even if he was never good enough to make it for City, I am far more confident in them improving him as a player than I am Celtic...which is why if its a choice between the two the choice should be a no brainer.

And for the record, he is still being linked to Man City. it's just Celtic are the most recent team to come into the picture.

Chido is an exception rather than the rule, and no that isn't who he's measured against that's just United trying to copy the Ferguson era like they have a tendency to do.

I hate the Man City project, but from an Irish perspective, the quality of training at the likes of City, Liverpool or Arsenal and their links to continental clubs would give him a great grounding and learning. Imagine going up against Virgil Van Dijk, the City defenders and Saliba on a daily basis or going out to a club like Salzburg or a good Dutch or Belgian club, which is the path they would take with him I would imagine.

Melia is an exceptional talent. He may end up playing Leinster Senior League in five years or he may be world class in the future. Right now, I'd be judging him against 16 year olds and there aren't too many better. Harry Kane was a very good 16 year old but he was far from the best. His desire and attitude got him to that place. He's a blueprint for any young player who wants to get to the top.

[Razors left peg]

Not really, Haaland as a 16 year old for instance, wasn't even scoring goals in the 2nd division in Norway at a similar age... never mind Ferguson who didnt start for Bohemians and only clocked about 100 minutes at a similar age. The standard isn't really relevant, the fact is he's starting regularly in mens football in a demanding position, it take's a lot of mental strength and resilience to be able to do that, not to mention talent. He obviously isnt going to make it into the Man City squad for awhile if/when he arrives but thinking he cant get to that standard because he's only scoring 3 goals in the LOI as a 16 year old is showing a very fair poor understand of how these clubs asses youth players.

The point overall though is even if he was never good enough to make it for City, I am far more confident in them improving him as a player than I am Celtic...which is why if its a choice between the two the choice should be a no brainer.

And for the record, he is still being linked to Man City. it's just Celtic are the most recent team to come into the picture.

Chido is an exception rather than the rule, and no that isn't who he's measured against that's just United trying to copy the Ferguson era like they have a tendency to do.

Thats a fair argument, but I do still think the standard is somewhat relevant if we are talking about a young kid who there is hope that he is elite. Of course Yamal is absolutely an exception, but if you are going to a top club you are up against the very best of your age in world football. Has Melia got this far on his size?

Interesting few years ahead to see if the LOI pathway works for him. If he was as good as Idah when he gets over to England or wherever thats still a success. The Sam Curtis scenario of playing LOI so young to end up on loan in L1 wouldnt have been really a good pathway for him if we discussed it a year ago. I still think Curtis will be good, and I think he'll have a successful career, but will he ever be as good as Matt Doherty for example? Curtis was another who was linked with Man City

[Acornvilla]

I think how Pat's have been playing is as relevant as anything. He's been a lone striker, very isolated at 16, for much of any game I've seen him. Pat's have strengthened considerably this month, and I think it will mean, he will return to playing a bit less, but for a team with a bit more control and more bodies up front, which will probably help him and his confidence, the role he's been doing is too punishing for someone his age no matter how good he is imo.

[CSAD]

Thats a fair argument, but I do still think the standard is somewhat relevant if we are talking about a young kid who there is hope that he is elite. Of course Yamal is absolutely an exception, but if you are going to a top club you are up against the very best of your age in world football. Has Melia got this far on his size?

Interesting few years ahead to see if the LOI pathway works for him. If he was as good as Idah when he gets over to England or wherever thats still a success. The Sam Curtis scenario of playing LOI so young to end up on loan in L1 wouldnt have been really a good pathway for him if we discussed it a year ago. I still think Curtis will be good, and I think he'll have a successful career, but will he ever be as good as Matt Doherty for example? Curtis was another who was linked with Man City

Surely the likes of Haaland and Ferguson's rise is evidence that it isn't that relevant. Obviously only 2 examples but I dont think playing in the LOI at his age is going to be what stops him becoming elite, if/when he goes over to England we'll see how he applies himself and then we'll have a fair idea of where he'll go in the game. The fact Melia as a 16 year old is standing out against literal grown men and for Ireland's u17s as a u16 player would indicate that his size hasn't been an advantage, if anything this will only benefit him when he goes across the water and trains with other 18 year olds who possibly haven't had this experience yet.


It isn't and I said at the time that Curtis going to Sheffield United was a terrible decision and day by day that's looking more and more like the case, but he wanted to go down the journeyman route so let him lay in that bed! Overall Melia is doing all he can do to attract big clubs, the key now for him fulfilling his potential is making the right next step.

[CSAD]

I hate the Man City project, but from an Irish perspective, the quality of training at the likes of City, Liverpool or Arsenal and their links to continental clubs would give him a great grounding and learning. Imagine going up against Virgil Van Dijk, the City defenders and Saliba on a daily basis or going out to a club like Salzburg or a good Dutch or Belgian club, which is the path they would take with him I would imagine.

Melia is an exceptional talent. He may end up playing Leinster Senior League in five years or he may be world class in the future. Right now, I'd be judging him against 16 year olds and there aren't too many better. Harry Kane was a very good 16 year old but he was far from the best. His desire and attitude got him to that place. He's a blueprint for any young player who wants to get to the top.

That's exactly the point, plus City have been proven to give youngsters a chance when good enough and even youngsters who dont make the grade tend to get decent transfers so if Melia applies himself the right way if he signs for City he should be okay one way or the other.

[Razors left peg]

Surely the likes of Haaland and Ferguson's rise is evidence that it isn't that relevant. Obviously only 2 examples but I dont think playing in the LOI at his age is going to be what stops him becoming elite, if/when he goes over to England we'll see how he applies himself and then we'll have a fair idea of where he'll go in the game. The fact Melia as a 16 year old is standing out against literal grown men and for Ireland's u17s as a u16 player would indicate that his size hasn't been an advantage, if anything this will only benefit him when he goes across the water and trains with other 18 year olds who possibly haven't had this experience yet.


It isn't and I said at the time that Curtis going to Sheffield United was a terrible decision and day by day that's looking more and more like the case, but he wanted to go down the journeyman route so let him lay in that bed! Overall Melia is doing all he can do to attract big clubs, the key now for him fulfilling his potential is making the right next step.

At Melias age Ferguson was over at Brighton and scoring goals for their U21 team so he not really a similar comparison. Ive said Haaland was a good point, but hes also a bit different because as he got older he grew quite a bit and even in mens football he looks like hes just a bigger guy, and quite often it looks like he is a man playing against boys.

To be clear, I am not saying that Melia wont be a good player, Im just saying that chances are he isnt going to be elite. And thats not a major criticism, we as a country have probably produced 5 or 6 truly world class players in our history. My personal opinion is that if he was going to be that very top level we'd be seeing more quality from him in a poor LOI, even at such a young age.

[CSAD]

At Melias age Ferguson was over at Brighton and scoring goals for their U21 team so he not really a similar comparison. Ive said Haaland was a good point, but hes also a bit different because as he got older he grew quite a bit and even in mens football he looks like hes just a bigger guy, and quite often it looks like he is a man playing against boys.

To be clear, I am not saying that Melia wont be a good player, Im just saying that chances are he isnt going to be elite. And thats not a major criticism, we as a country have probably produced 5 or 6 truly world class players in our history. My personal opinion is that if he was going to be that very top level we'd be seeing more quality from him in a poor LOI, even at such a young age.


He scored the same number of goals against u21 players as Melia scored against men this season...if anything the comparison favours Melia. You are now falling into the world of subjectivity which is a dangerous area to be when it comes to an objective observation.

And as I've just highlighted from Haaland and Ferguson, that isn't always the case. I dont know what more you were expecting, if you were expecting a 16 to rip up the LOI at his age and that was the bar you've set then you were always going to be disappointed...no player has ever done that.

Not every 16 year old has to be as good as Yamal to be elite prospect.

[Razors left peg]

He scored the same number of goals against u21 players as Melia scored against men this season...if anything the comparison favours Melia. You are now falling into the world of subjectivity which is a dangerous area to be when it comes to an objective observation.

And as I've just highlighted from Haaland and Ferguson, that isn't always the case. I dont know what more you were expecting, if you were expecting a 16 to rip up the LOI at his age and that was the bar you've set then you were always going to be disappointed...no player has ever done that.

Not every 16 year old has to be as good as Yamal to be elite prospect.

It's simply an opinion, we all have them. We'll circle back in a few years and see. I hope I'm wrong and he goes on to be our greatest ever striker... all I'm saying right now is I don't see it

[CSAD]

It's simply an opinion, we all have them. We'll circle back in a few years and see. I hope I'm wrong and he goes on to be our greatest ever striker... all I'm saying right now is I don't see it

Largely because you've set a totally unrealistic high bar for him to hit.

[Razors left peg]

Largely because you've set a totally unrealistic high bar for him to hit.

I'm not the one linking him with the likes of Man City. My personal opinion is that he hasn't shown enough to make me think that he's good enough to make it at an elite club. That's the standard we are talking about. If you want to argue that it's too early to tell , that's grand and it's a fair argument even if I disagree with it. Neither of us can prove we are right one way or another so there no need to react like I've insulted your favorite puppy

[CSAD]

I'm not the one linking him with the likes of Man City. My personal opinion is that he hasn't shown enough to make me think that he's good enough to make it at an elite club. That's the standard we are talking about. If you want to argue that it's too early to tell , that's grand and it's a fair argument even if I disagree with it. Neither of us can prove we are right one way or another so there no need to react like I've insulted your favorite puppy

What exactly are you expecting a 16 year old to show to make you think he could make it at an elite club, because what you appear to be looking from him you rarely see from any 16 year old in the world. It's far, far too early to making assessments on a player to be quite honest, the expectations you've set for a 16 year old to set in order to make it at an elite club just shows a real ignorance on how player development works which is why I've reacted the way I have rather than you "insulting my favourite puppy".

Because based on you're criteria the likes of Haaland, Nunez, Kane, Vlahovic, Sesko, Ferguson, Hojlund (These are just CF's that come to my mind, I could name far more I'm sure) wouldnt have shown enough to make it at an elite club and yet...most of them have and the ones that havent have shown potential to make it there since they are 16...

[Razors left peg]

What exactly are you expecting a 16 year old to show to make you think he could make it at an elite club, because what you appear to be looking from him you rarely see from any 16 year old in the world. It's far, far too early to making assessments on a player to be quite honest, the expectations you've set for a 16 year old to set in order to make it at an elite club just shows a real ignorance on how player development works which is why I've reacted the way I have rather than you "insulting my favourite puppy".

Because based on you're criteria the likes of Haaland, Nunez, Kane, Vlahovic, Sesko, Ferguson, Hojlund (These are just CF's that come to my mind, I could name far more I'm sure) wouldnt have shown enough to make it at an elite club and yet...most of them have and the ones that havent have shown potential to make it there since they are 16...

Jeez you're fairly intent on keeping this argument going aren't ya! Ive expressed an opinion on a player playing on a team that has struggled past a team from Leichenstein in Europe, playing in a league where one of the best teams was beaten in europe by a Gibraltar team. The standard in the league of Ireland right now is incredibly poor, even if I still love watching it. From what Ive seen in those games Ive watched of Melia I just dont think hes very good. Hes not an exceptional finisher, not lightening fast and not very tricky. Hes a big lad and hes doing ok in a standard that isnt very good. When I have watched him for the Ireland underage teams, again I think hes done ok, but hes not a standout like Duff would have been back in the day for example.

Just because he is playing in a league with men isnt an indication that hes doing brilliant. If the men in that league are not very good and he also doesnt look very good, then I think its ok for me to look at him and say I have doubts. We've all watched younger players from different levels and sometimes you can pick out a player that you think will go a long way. When I see Melia, right now I dont see elite level talent..... and again for the slow kids down the back, its an opinion that Im happy to be wrong about, but its an opinion the same as yours and neither of us will know if we are right for a number of years.

[SkStu]

He's a 16 year old playing professional football to a decent standard (lets say its already generally L1 or SPL equivalent given thats where most of our league players end up moving to) and he is scoring goals. If he was doing that in L1 or SPL at this age we'd be absolutely creaming ourselves and rightly so. There is no reason we shouldn't be extremely optimistic and excited by him!!

[Razors left peg]

He's a 16 year old playing professional football to a decent standard (lets say its already generally L1 or SPL equivalent given thats where most of our league players end up moving to) and he is scoring goals. If he was doing that in L1 or SPL at this age we'd be absolutely creaming ourselves and rightly so. There is no reason we shouldn't be extremely optimistic and excited by him!!

Ah its not L1 or SPL equivalent Stu. Some of the best players in the league have gone over to L1 in recent years and really struggled. Some players will come out of the league and do well but the over all standard wouldbt even be L2 in England I think. I doubt Brunos Magpies would be beating a team in L2

[SkStu]

Sure, it’s debatable. PineappleStu (I think it was) shared something in the last couple of years that compared the relative strength of teams to other leagues and iirc most teams were L1 territory.

Leaving that to one side though and back to Melia, he’s a 16 year old already scoring goals in a professional league and is being scouted by a system as competent as Brightons when it comes to unearthing young talent from weaker leagues. Right now, thats doing pretty excellently. That’s pretty elite for a 16 year old. He’s achieved a lot already and there’s a lot more to come according to the scouts.

[Razors left peg]

Sure, it’s debatable. PineappleStu (I think it was) shared something in the last couple of years that compared the relative strength of teams to other leagues and iirc most teams were L1 territory.

Leaving that to one side though and back to Melia, he’s a 16 year old already scoring goals in a professional league and is being scouted by a system as competent as Brightons when it comes to unearthing young talent from weaker leagues. Right now, thats doing pretty excellently. That’s pretty elite for a 16 year old. He’s achieved a lot already and there’s a lot more to come according to the scouts.

I hope you're right. I hope he's as good or better than Evan Ferguson, I just have doubts

[pineapple stu]

Sure, it’s debatable. PineappleStu (I think it was) shared something in the last couple of years that compared the relative strength of teams to other leagues and iirc most teams were L1 territory.
I think it was JR89 shared it originally; I just referenced it a bit as I thought it was a good source. It said most LoI teams were League 2 or Scottish Championship level.

[CSAD]

Jeez you're fairly intent on keeping this argument going aren't ya! Ive expressed an opinion on a player playing on a team that has struggled past a team from Leichenstein in Europe, playing in a league where one of the best teams was beaten in europe by a Gibraltar team. The standard in the league of Ireland right now is incredibly poor, even if I still love watching it. From what Ive seen in those games Ive watched of Melia I just dont think hes very good. Hes not an exceptional finisher, not lightening fast and not very tricky. He's a big lad and hes doing ok in a standard that isnt very good. When I have watched him for the Ireland underage teams, again I think hes done ok, but hes not a standout like Duff would have been back in the day for example.

Just because he is playing in a league with men isnt an indication that hes doing brilliant. If the men in that league are not very good and he also doesnt look very good, then I think its ok for me to look at him and say I have doubts. We've all watched younger players from different levels and sometimes you can pick out a player that you think will go a long way. When I see Melia, right now I dont see elite level talent..... and again for the slow kids down the back, its an opinion that Im happy to be wrong about, but its an opinion the same as yours and neither of us will know if we are right for a number of years.

And as I've highlighted, if that's the criteria you've set then the likes of Haaland & Ferguson didn't have the ability to become elite either...well it would be hard for Melia to replicate Duff considering Duff didn't play for Ireland competitively at underage level until u20 level when he made his debut as an 18 year old...2 years older than Melia is now. Also no disrespect but using 1 off European results as an indication of where the league is at his a very poor example, just shows it's more important that you're right then being accurate which just damages you're arguments credibility. Yes the league isnt the highest standard, we know this, but it's still impressive for a 16 year old to be playing regularly at that level in such a demanding position. Expecting him to be pulling trees out at that age at senior level is totally unrealistic, like some others have said there is far too much development ahead for someone like Melia to come to any conclusion that he could be elite.

You're going to learn more playing against men some of whom have played well over 100 professional appearances than against literal kids, some of which may have 0 professional appearances. We've seen time and time again that one big issue for our young players have been the lack of professional experience, some of which must wait until their 20s to get it and then its a shock to the system and they fall by the way side.

Looking at the way you're posting it almost feels like you've made a predetermined opinion of Melia's potential based on where he's playing and I get the feeling that's what's dragging him down in you're estimations as based on what we've seen from him idk how you could look at that and be so pessimistic of his chances of succeeding in the game.

[Razors left peg]

Looking at the way you're posting it almost feels like you've made a predetermined opinion of Melia's potential based on where he's playing and I get the feeling that's what's dragging him down in you're estimations as based on what we've seen from him idk how you could look at that and be so pessimistic of his chances of succeeding in the game.

Duff may not have been the best example, I always thought he was 17 at that U20 WC, but however the part I just quoted isnt true. If it was I wouldnt have LOITV subscription and watch games every week. I was raised on LOI, brought to games when Galway United were still Galway Rovers. The LOI and Ireland games are literally the only things I miss living so far from home, so no I havent made a predetermined opinion on him because of where he plays.

I watched Melia in the U17 Euros last year and didnt think he was a standout. He was only 15 so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I watched the same u17 in the elite qualifiers this year when they were massively out matched by Portugal, Germany and Croatia and again he wasnt a standout there. I've watched him play numerous times play for Pats and again hes done ok, not special or spectacular. I have never said he wont go on to be a professional footballer, but I have said that if hes ever as good as Kevin Doyle or Adam Idah that would be a massive success. I have also said that I hope Im wrong and he goes on to be our best ever player.

I've had plenty of opinions on this site over the years, some Ive been right about and plenty Ive been wrong about. Thats ok, they are opinions. You have your own opinions, some Ive agreed with and some I havent and thats the point of this place. Getting yourself so worked up about a player that neither of us will know for a few years how he turns out probably isnt great for ya. The gas thing is that Im usually the one being accused of being too overly optimistic about things on here so its funny to be on the other side of it for a change :D

[SkStu]

I think it was JR89 shared it originally; I just referenced it a bit as I thought it was a good source. It said most LoI teams were League 2 or Scottish Championship level.

Would like to see that again purely out of interest. I thought there were a few teams (premier division) that showed up in L1/SPL? [I was wrong by saying "most" in my original post for sure]

[Razors left peg]

Would like to see that again purely out of interest. I thought there were a few teams (premier division) that showed up in L1/SPL? [I was wrong by saying "most" in my original post for sure]

It may have been true a few years ago, I dont know when he did the comparison, but right now the standard across the league is a poor as its been in a while. Interesting that its coinciding with the league being more popular now than its ever been in my lifetime.

[CSAD]

Duff may not have been the best example, I always thought he was 17 at that U20 WC, but however the part I just quoted isnt true. If it was I wouldnt have LOITV subscription and watch games every week. I was raised on LOI, brought to games when Galway United were still Galway Rovers. The LOI and Ireland games are literally the only things I miss living so far from home, so no I havent made a predetermined opinion on him because of where he plays.

I watched Melia in the U17 Euros last year and didnt think he was a standout. He was only 15 so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I watched the same u17 in the elite qualifiers this year when they were massively out matched by Portugal, Germany and Croatia and again he wasnt a standout there. I've watched him play numerous times play for Pats and again hes done ok, not special or spectacular. I have never said he wont go on to be a professional footballer, but I have said that if hes ever as good as Kevin Doyle or Adam Idah that would be a massive success. I have also said that I hope Im wrong and he goes on to be our best ever player.

I've had plenty of opinions on this site over the years, some Ive been right about and plenty Ive been wrong about. Thats ok, they are opinions. You have your own opinions, some Ive agreed with and some I havent and thats the point of this place. Getting yourself so worked up about a player that neither of us will know for a few years how he turns out probably isnt great for ya. The gas thing is that Im usually the one being accused of being too overly optimistic about things on here so its funny to be on the other side of it for a change :D

Nope, made his Ireland u20 debut in June 1997 against Ghana which would make him 18 years old. You may love the LOI but reading through you're comments on this topic the conclusion seems to be that Melia will have to be in England before he could be considered to be in the conversation for being an elite prospect, judging at least by what you've said about Ferguson.

Well he scored 6 goals in 10 games as a 15 year old at u17 level, idk what more you were expecting...doing okay as a 16 year old at senior level is very good at this stage, expecting him to be "spectacular" at his age against adults would be setting the bar insanely high. At his age what's important is not looking out of you're depth which he clearly doesnt. You might have a point if he was 18-19 at this point but as a 16 year old he's doing very well.

Also to settle any worries you have, no I'm not worked so dont worry ;)

[pineapple stu]

Would like to see that again purely out of interest. I thought there were a few teams (premier division) that showed up in L1/SPL? [I was wrong by saying "most" in my original post for sure]

Yep - it's here. https://twitter.com/AndyForrester1/s...47884751867905

It actually ranks the LoI as between English fourth tier and Scottish second. But yeah, it's not as simple as that as there's a wide spread of teams. Rovers/Dundalk it has as League One level - but arguably neither are what they were a couple of years ago as RLP suggests

[Eirambler]

I don't know where people are getting the notion that the domestic league is similar to League 1 or the SPL, surely just watching a few games this season would be enough to see that it isn't. And the trail of hyped up former league players coming back recently with their tails planted firmly between their legs tells it's own story. These were the lads that were considered too good for domestic football, and then subsequently not good enough for Scottish or English football.

The top few teams in Ireland would stay up in League 2 I'd say. The rest wouldn't. As for Melia, I'm closer to RLP's position at the moment. I'm not seeing anything generational there. That's not to say that he's a bad player or anything, he obviously isn't. But I haven't seen anything so far to suggest that he's going to be any better that the strikers we already have. And realistically if he stays in Ireland until 18 he's going to have to spend a year or two playing catch up in England even if he does have the talent, as we're seeing now with Curtis.

[CSAD]

I don't know where people are getting the notion that the domestic league is similar to League 1 or the SPL, surely just watching a few games this season would be enough to see that it isn't. And the trail of hyped up former league players coming back recently with their tails planted firmly between their legs tells it's own story. These were the lads that were considered too good for domestic football, and then subsequently not good enough for Scottish or English football.

The top few teams in Ireland would stay up in League 2 I'd say. The rest wouldn't. As for Melia, I'm closer to RLP's position at the moment. I'm not seeing anything generational there. That's not to say that he's a bad player or anything, he obviously isn't. But I haven't seen anything so far to suggest that he's going to be any better that the strikers we already have. And realistically if he stays in Ireland until 18 he's going to have to spend a year or two playing catch up in England even if he does have the talent, as we're seeing now with Curtis.

All you've done is shown a incredibly poor understanding on how players develop. I mean if we look at Hojlund, Ferguson, Sesko (the 3 young CF's everyone seems to talk about) and see where they were at 16-17 years old.

Hojlund - 4 starts in 5 u19 Danish league football, 0 goals.
Sesko - 1 goal and 1 start in 15 games in the Austrian 2nd division.
Ferguson - Played 11 games at PL2 level, started 7 and scored 3 goals.

I dont know criteria you are using to determine if someone is generational or not but based on whatever that criteria is would you seriously consider any of the above at generational based on their stats at a similar age.

Overall you just like RLP seem to setting Melia a much higher bar than the 3 I've mentioned.

[Eirambler]

Like others, it's just an opinion. He's played more games than any of those examples for one thing, and the goals aren't coming with any regularity. I'm not saying that he can't go on and have a good career, of course that's a possibility, but there's nothing I'm seeing at the moment that suggests he's showing any more about himself than many others who have come before him.

[Razors left peg]

All you've done is shown a incredibly poor understanding on how players develop. I mean if we look at Hojlund, Ferguson, Sesko (the 3 young CF's everyone seems to talk about) and see where they were at 16-17 years old.

Hojlund - 4 starts in 5 u19 Danish league football, 0 goals.
Sesko - 1 goal and 1 start in 15 games in the Austrian 2nd division.
Ferguson - Played 11 games at PL2 level, started 7 and scored 3 goals.

I dont know criteria you are using to determine if someone is generational or not but based on whatever that criteria is would you seriously consider any of the above at generational based on their stats at a similar age.

Overall you just like RLP seem to setting Melia a much higher bar than the 3 I've mentioned.

All you're doing is showing an arrogance to think you know better than everyone else and no one else is allowed to have an opinion that's different to yours. Even the very best in football get opinions on young players wrong, Mourinho didn't think Salah or DeBryune were good enough for Chelsea for example, and he had the benefit of watching them every day.

Neither myself or Eirambler are saying he's crap, but I do like the way Eirambler put it, I don't see generational talent. We might be right, I think we'd both hope we are wrong but your opinion is no more valid than others on this. As of right now we have a kid playing with men who is doing ok. When I was 15 I remember playing a couple of games with my Dad's team and I was better than a lot of the men on that team, it meant nothing cos the level was crap and I wasn't very good at better levels in my own age group. Melia is doing fine in a poor standard, hopefully he rises above it and goes onto better things.

Recently Shamrock Rovers have had Ferizaj and Razi in their team at very young ages, I remember Ferizaj playing well in European games in particular. Both right now are in underage teams in Italy and we hope they kick on. Just because they did ok in a LOI team when young means nothing. I do think Melia looks better than they did, albeit in different position, but it's still no guarantee he will be good when the step up comes, and right now he only looks good, not special

[CSAD]

Like others, it's just an opinion. He's played more games than any of those examples for one thing, and the goals aren't coming with any regularity. I'm not saying that he can't go on and have a good career, of course that's a possibility, but there's nothing I'm seeing at the moment that suggests he's showing any more about himself than many others who have come before him.

So essentially, you are handicapping Melia because he choose to challenge himself against men every week as opposed to playing against kids...also worth pointing out the options I mentioned didn't score goals with any regularity either at this age.

And as I pointed out, based on the stats I mentioned you could have made the exact same argument for Hojlund, Ferguson and Sesko...

And you still didn't answer the question, what exactly would you be expecting from Melia at this age that would make him an elite prospect?

[CSAD]

All you're doing is showing an arrogance to think you know better than everyone else and no one else is allowed to have an opinion that's different to yours. Even the very best in football get opinions on young players wrong, Mourinho didn't think Salah or DeBryune were good enough for Chelsea for example, and he had the benefit of watching them every day.

Neither myself or Eirambler are saying he's crap, but I do like the way Eirambler put it, I don't see generational talent. We might be right, I think we'd both hope we are wrong but your opinion is no more valid than others on this. As of right now we have a kid playing with men who is doing ok. When I was 15 I remember playing a couple of games with my Dad's team and I was better than a lot of the men on that team, it meant nothing cos the level was crap and I wasn't very good at better levels in my own age group. Melia is doing fine in a poor standard, hopefully he rises above it and goes onto better things.

Recently Shamrock Rovers have had Ferizaj and Razi in their team at very young ages, I remember Ferizaj playing well in European games in particular. Both right now are in underage teams in Italy and we hope they kick on. Just because they did ok in a LOI team when young means nothing. I do think Melia looks better than they did, albeit in different position, but it's still no guarantee he will be good when the step up comes, and right now he only looks good, not special

Nope, I think you are just deciding to ignore facts & logic as they don't support you're argument and now you're starting to get frustrated at this fact.

And like I've said, I've literally pointed out the 3 young ST's that people seem to talk about online and pointed out how in all 3 cases none would have shown anything that would suggest they are generational talents. Using the standard as an excuse is just you clutching at straws at this point, it just shows its more important that you are right rather than being objective on the fact. The fact is those players weren't playing regularly at LOI level, they played 9 games and 3 games respectfully.

No player at 16 is going to look special playing senior football if the criteria you are setting is for them to dominate....that simply is never going to happen.

Just out of curiosity, what would you expect from a special player at 16 playing at senior that would fit the criteria of a generational talent.

[Razors left peg]

Robbie Keane had just turned 17 when he scored twice on his debut for Wolves, not much different to Melia who will be 17 in September. What do I expect from a young player to think he's special? I'm not sure but the great ones usually stand out and right now I'm not sure Melia does.

[pineapple stu]

One thing you have to know when debating with CSAD is that he's always right. It makes things a lot easier to go with that starting point.

I thought 16-year-old Lamine Yamal looked special playing senior football at the Euros in the summer btw. Spain have had a number of players like that lately - Ansu Fati, Gavi, Pedri. Wayne Rooney was 16 when scoring from 30 yards to end Arsenal's long unbeaten run. 16-year-old Cesc Fabregas was a regular for Arsenal not long after. Jude Bellingham was a regular for Birmingham at 16.

Melia's doing fine but he has 5 goals in 42 games in a poor league. It's not exactly earth-shattering. But best of luck to him obviously; one to keep an eye on.

[CSAD]

Robbie Keane had just turned 17 when he scored twice on his debut for Wolves, not much different to Melia who will be 17 in September. What do I expect from a young player to think he's special? I'm not sure but the great ones usually stand out and right now I'm not sure Melia does.

Oh god, having to go back to 1998. I think that all but confirms the evidence behind you're argument isn't very strong.

I think I've already pointed out the evidence to you in regards to the 3 strikers I mentioned that at a similar age they didn't stand out. Any young player that does stand out at a young age usually stands out because they are playing with other kids which isn't the case with Melia.

[CSAD]

One thing you have to know when debating with CSAD is that he's always right. It makes things a lot easier to go with that starting point.

I thought 16-year-old Lamine Yamal looked special playing senior football at the Euros in the summer btw. Spain have had a number of players like that lately - Ansu Fati, Gavi, Pedri. Wayne Rooney was 16 when scoring from 30 yards to end Arsenal's long unbeaten run. 16-year-old Cesc Fabregas was a regular for Arsenal not long after. Jude Bellingham was a regular for Birmingham at 16.

Melia's doing fine but he has 5 goals in 42 games in a poor league. It's not exactly earth-shattering. But best of luck to him obviously; one to keep an eye on.

Because usually I am right, I use facts/logic and evidence to back up my arguments which usually means I'm right.

Nice one, 6 players listed and only 1 play's in Melia's position and even then you had to go back over 20 years to find him! Btw Fabregas hadn't played a minute in the PL at 16 for Arsenal ya clown ;)

But the point is the 3 strikers I mentioned earlier, actually good examples as they play in a similar time and each are similar in terms of build and style of play, weren't earth shattering either...the overall point is judging a 16 year old's potential at this age is almost pointless as there is so much development ahead. Most 16 year olds dont play 42 games at senior level at 16, regardless of the standard....that's what's impressive.

[Olé Olé]

Trying to figure out some of the points Melia's doubters and detractors are making.

Standard of the league - How many 16 year old strikers are there in League Two, National League or Scottish Championship?

Physical or technical qualities - What impact will puberty and more coaching have?

He's being tracked for his potential. Not for what he is doing now. And the fact that he can hold his own in this league at this age appears to indicate that he has some potential - to people actually paid to identify potential...

[Eirambler]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?

[Supreme feet]

The reasons to be optimistic about Melia are that he's scored lots of goals for Ireland at underage level, he's been trusted to play senior men's football at 16 by successive managers at Pat's, and he's being linked strongly with EPL clubs. If he was, to the trained footballing eye, a bit of a one-paced plodder and a poor finisher, this wouldn't be the case. He could kick on next year and score 15+, then 20+ the year after, then go abroad, make an immediate impact, and become a senior international before his 21st birthday.

He could also become the next Eamon Zayed.

Kaylem Harnett is doing very well for Wexford at 17. Did well for the Irish U17s in the Euros too. It doesn't mean he's going to amount to anything. Same with Romeo Akachukwu, Ike Orazi and Naj Razi. It'd be great if they all came through to senior level, but we've been here before - for every highly-rated young player who comes through to deliver on their promise, there are more like Richie Partridge, Graham Barrett, Shaun Thornton, Conor Clifford, Conor Henderson, Owen Garvan, Aaron Connolly, etc, to give just a few examples, who all looked outstanding at underage level and even senior, in some cases. Development isn't always linear and we can't assume anything.

Also, while we can't write off someone so young, we can't assume that a 16 year-old player is going to be great because 'x, y and z-players were mediocre at 16 and turned out to be world-class.' There are thousands of mediocre journeyman plodders in the world who were also starting regularly and 'doing okay', at a comparative level to LOI, in their teens.

[Olé Olé]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?

There's a bit of a range here. RLP has stated some opinions that go a bit further than he "has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent."

[CSAD]

CSAD - given that the argument being put forward here is simply that Melia has shown nothing at this point to suggest that he is a generational talent, why don't you provide some counter evidence to suggest that he is, in fact, a generational talent and then we can take it from there?


Well first and foremost, what has he NOT done that is stopping him from being generational?

Well nothing because it's very rare that you spot a generational striker at 16 years of age, genius. The issue with the point you are making is you are already writing off a 16 year old from being generational...when you look at the players that have been pointed out by Pineapple & RLP the fact they must go back to 1998 and 2002 to find a striker who was playing regularly at a high level at 16 years of age just shows how rare it actually is and how its impressive that Melia is doing it now.

So ill ask the question again, what is Melia NOT doing that's stopping him being a potentially generational level already?

[CSAD]

The reasons to be optimistic about Melia are that he's scored lots of goals for Ireland at underage level, he's been trusted to play senior men's football at 16 by successive managers at Pat's, and he's being linked strongly with EPL clubs. If he was, to the trained footballing eye, a bit of a one-paced plodder and a poor finisher, this wouldn't be the case. He could kick on next year and score 15+, then 20+ the year after, then go abroad, make an immediate impact, and become a senior international before his 21st birthday.

He could also become the next Eamon Zayed.

Kaylem Harnett is doing very well for Wexford at 17. Did well for the Irish U17s in the Euros too. It doesn't mean he's going to amount to anything. Same with Romeo Akachukwu, Ike Orazi and Naj Razi. It'd be great if they all came through to senior level, but we've been here before - for every highly-rated young player who comes through to deliver on their promise, there are more like Richie Partridge, Graham Barrett, Shaun Thornton, Conor Clifford, Conor Henderson, Owen Garvan, Aaron Connolly, etc, to give just a few examples, who all looked outstanding at underage level and even senior, in some cases. Development isn't always linear and we can't assume anything.

Also, while we can't write off someone so young, we can't assume that a 16 year-old player is going to be great because 'x, y and z-players were mediocre at 16 and turned out to be world-class.' There are thousands of mediocre journeyman plodders in the world who were also starting regularly and 'doing okay', at a comparative level to LOI, in their teens.

But again you are just proving my point, when you try find comparable players the detractors need to pick a player that is either A. Playing in another position or B. Must go back over 20 years to find a player who IS playing in the same position. It's clutching at straws and just further proves how impressive it is Melia is holding down a starting position at 16.

The point is its very rare that even a generational player can be picked out at 16 years of age, because of what Yamal has done this season people seem to think its normal for a 16 year old to look top class at that age but it isn't. But then you forget about the amount of players who DO make it playing at this level as teenagers, the overall point is compare to other top strikers around today Melia is doing just as good if not better than most at a similar age, not just the 3 strikers I mention but even players like Haaland.

[Supreme feet]

To say 'Mason Melia is going to be elite level and a generational talent' is an extraordinary claim. To quote Christopher Hitchens, 'an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence.'

Melia has a lot going for him, but he certainly hasn't done anything extraordinary, at this point. If what RLP is saying is true, that he's not very quick and doesn't seem to be a clinical finisher, then you'd have to worry about his ceiling. I'd like to hear opinions from Pats fans who watch him every week. I thought he was okay for the U17s, but Orazi was much more of an attacking threat.

[Eirambler]

Well first and foremost, what has he NOT done that is stopping him from being generational?

Well nothing because it's very rare that you spot a generational striker at 16 years of age, genius. The issue with the point you are making is you are already writing off a 16 year old from being generational...when you look at the players that have been pointed out by Pineapple & RLP the fact they must go back to 1998 and 2002 to find a striker who was playing regularly at a high level at 16 years of age just shows how rare it actually is and how its impressive that Melia is doing it now.

So ill ask the question again, what is Melia NOT doing that's stopping him being a potentially generational level already?

Ok, so just to be clear about where we stand. I don't think he's shown anything to suggest he's a generational talent. You've taken an issue with this, so I've asked you to provide examples of where he has shown that level of potential. And you haven't provided any.

Melia is playing first team football in Ireland because he wants to move to the UK and can't until he's 18. If that wasn't the case he'd be playing underage football in England at this point like countless others before him. There's nothing different about him to Idah, Parrott, Connolly and many others, other than that international transfer rules post Brexit have delayed his preferred career route.