Games weekend 3rd to 7th May 2024

[2 Year Contract]

pats issue is their plan A is so bad, id be worried what a possible plan B looks like.
It worked very well first 20, drop long balls over the head of the young Sligo RB Reynolds for Mulraney to run onto and deliver crosses. He ran him ragged for that opening 20 but Pats didn’t take any of the chances created and once Sligo took the lead and figured out that that was pats only plan of attack, they nullified it easily

[Nesta99]

Cant wait for Rover's to get their asses handed to them by a Gibralter/San Marino side and then hear the fans on here claim they played a "top class side" as a way to excuse their pathetic performance :p

Your persistance in winding up on this is laudable, getting the digs in nice and early! But the excuses havent shifted to quality of opposition since Europe 2020 really - its still about getting Jack back an having a first 11 to pick from...

[2 Year Contract]

Honestly!??
Jeez how long was Liam Buckley there at inchicore? I could have sworn that there's been a bit of a revolving door at pat's just in the last 10 years alone,but if you have stats to back up you're claim then I've no reason to doubt it.

Pat Dolan 1999-03
Eamon Collins 2003-04
John McDonnell 2004-08
Jeff Kenna 2009
Pete Mahon 2009-11
Liam Buckley 2012-18
Harry Kenny 2019
Stephen O'Donnell 2019-21
Tim Clancy 2022-23
Jon Daly 2023-

The only ones moved on after less than a year were Jeff Kenna who nearly relegated the club for the first time in its history and Harry Kenny who brought in a throughly putrid brand of football throughout as well as overseeing a big drop in off field professionalism in the squad he’d assembled

[Nesta99]

Hopefully you’re not a betting man anyways as this is a load of utter spoof. Pats have had 10 permanent managers in the 21st century which alongside shamrock rovers is the least amount of managers that any current premier division side have had in that time. I haven’t had a look at all first division clubs but the majority of those seem to be a lot higher too

21st century is almost a quarter of a century old so your stats are correct but fail to acknowledge the potential of having 7 managers since 2018 including Buckley if Daly gets the boot, so PC would win his bet if he was more careful on the timespan. 7 in 7 years consitutues a revolving door of managerial appointments imo. Harry Kenny should be given a second chance eh PC!

[2 Year Contract]

21st century is almost a quarter of a century old so your stats are correct but fail to acknowledge the potential of having 7 managers since 2018 including Buckley if Daly gets the boot, so PC would win his bet if he was more careful on the timespan. 7 in 7 years consitutues a revolving door of managerial appointments imo. Harry Kenny should be given a second chance eh PC!

I didn’t bring the 21st century shout into the thread, I merely pointed out that the point was wrong for that timeframe (and the opposite was actually true for it).

Seen as the overall point was supposedly that pats making frequent managerial changes is the reason they haven’t challenged for the league in ‘donkeys years’, Pats have currently had 5 permanent managers since they last won the league 11 years ago and in that time aside from the Dundalk/Rovers dominance of the league have arguably challenged for the title just as much as anyone else, that being the 2021 2nd place finish as well as going into their final home game of last season still with a mathematical chance of winning the title (granted unlikely as it was to happen), as well as winning 3 FAI Cups which is matched only by Dundalk in that timeframe.

Essentially my point is, outside of rovers, who are the clubs that have been more successful than Pats have trophies wise in the last 7 years that have also made less managerial changes than pats have in that time? Dundalk have won more trophies in the last 7 years but with more managerial changes

[sulywaterfordfc]

Only 4 goals scored in in the 5 Premier games tonight. Will fans keep coming out in big numbers to see games like these? Are coaches being conservative or is it a lack of attacking quality?

There has been a serious lack of quality attacking options in the league for a few years now and it’s been getting increasingly more limited.

[placid casual]

21st century is almost a quarter of a century old so your stats are correct but fail to acknowledge the potential of having 7 managers since 2018 including Buckley if Daly gets the boot, so PC would win his bet if he was more careful on the timespan. 7 in 7 years consitutues a revolving door of managerial appointments imo. Harry Kenny should be given a second chance eh PC!

Maybe my timespan wasn't relevant,but you can at least understand the point I was trying to make.
And I won't have a word said against H.:) A LOI LEGEND!!!!

[Jd2793]

never doubted caulfields ability to get results but is the lack of goals any concern for galway fans? things can turn quickly when the margins are as small as they are. no question about work rate or effort under him but 8 goals in 14 is rough enough. they wont finish in the bottom 2 but those numbers are fit for any relegated side since the league went to 10 teams...

[yurt]

From my perspective anyway I've never been less concerned about a Galway side in the almost 2 decades I've been supporting the club.

During the first round of games I would have agreed with you that we are a bit toothless up front and that if we don't create any chances were not going to win enough games to keep us from going down.

But now after 15 games it's a big enough sample size to come to the conclusion that if we're this solid at the back were going to find it difficult to lose any games.

A team will always get a half chance due to an opposition mistake and if we can take one of those odds now look like we'll win the game.

Last time we were in the premier we scored a boat load of goals under Shane Keegan but we conceeded even more with how our defense was set up.

If the tradeoff for a title winning standard defense is a relegation standard attack I think it's worth it.

[da bishop]

Very poor fare at the MF,saved only by a a bit more box action in the second half,questionable decision going against Treaty with what looked like nailed on pen,later a harsh red card.even Athlones red looked harsh tbf.Despite that it doesnt mask the fact no wins in ten.no goal in ages,very poor football for most of the game,Patchwell was never popular with fans down here and this performace will hardly endear him to the Treaty mass,s.His performance will however only smokescreen our mgt recent efforts with this team.

[brendy_éire]

Slightly more entertaining game than expected at the Brandywell last night.

Not too many clear cut chances created, and it took a Shels defensive balls-up to get our goal.
Really frustrating to concede so late on. Probably shouldn't have been allowed get the cross in, but it was well worked goal TBF.

Security-wise, blocks K/L/M had no home fans. Shels fans were in M, so K and L were essentially seat kills. Going forward, leaves the possibility for a large away section, 500+. Can't see any team needing that much though.
No additional searching going in it seems, but excluding those blocks probably sorts out half the issues anyway. Heard of two arrests. One was for a fan who was standing at the back of the stand, in the walkway at the closed block K, and refusing to move. Stewards removed him, and handed him over to the PSNI. Yes, it's technically a criminal offence, as it's an emergency egress route, but that's unprecedented.
If the club is taking a hardline on security though, no complaints from me. Things need to change.

One positive, IMO, from having the away fans where they were is the craic you can have with them. Plenty of good natured chants going back and forth between ourselves and the Shels fans. Panto-esque at times, enjoyable stuff.

[JC_GUFC]

never doubted caulfields ability to get results but is the lack of goals any concern for galway fans? things can turn quickly when the margins are as small as they are. no question about work rate or effort under him but 8 goals in 14 is rough enough. they wont finish in the bottom 2 but those numbers are fit for any relegated side since the league went to 10 teams...

The way I look at it, if you're leaking goals that's much harder to fix.
7 of our 8 goals this season have come from open play, so obviously being more efficient from set pieces is something that will hopefully change as the season goes on.

We have a run of "easy" games coming up now so there will be a bit more expectation around our games against Sligo, Drogs and Dundalk. We're obviously going to have to approach a home game against Sligo differently to how we've been going into the last few matches. This may be exactly the type of match we end up struggling in though, when we're the side dominating possession and having to make the play.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Do ye play different at home to away? Assumed Caulfield set up the same regardless. Think it was 65/35 possession in the showgrounds.

[Burnsie]

10 match ban for Dundalk keeper Shelvey for abusing a match official

[2 Year Contract]

10 match ban for Dundalk keeper Shelvey for abusing a match official
Statement says he was in breach of the FAI regulations on Racism/Discrimination. Would be interesting to hear what he said but I’d imagine we’ll never find out

[placid casual]

Should he not be fired by Dundalk?
That's a serious indiscretion.
Don't know who the officials were in the game,but was one of the linesperson the female official who's name escapes me? Can't think of an official who's race might be called into question.

[2 Year Contract]

Should he not be fired by Dundalk?
That's a serious indiscretion.
Don't know who the officials were in the game,but was one of the linesperson the female official whose name escapes me? Can't think of an official whose race might be called into question.

From LOI Connect…

Referee: Robert Harvey
1st assistant referee: Dermot Broughton
2nd assistant referee: Darren Corcoran
Fourth official: Oliver Moran

[Kiki Balboa]

Irish c**t is the rumour...

For the record, the linesman terrible descion is the only reason why Drogheda won that game. It was a clear handball.

You could only say he just did not have the bottle to make the correct call, especially because it was in his line of view and from a set piece.

[joey B]

Should he not be fired by Dundalk?
That's a serious indiscretion.
Don't know who the officials were in the game,but was one of the linesperson the female official who's name escapes me? Can't think of an official who's race might be called into question.


Dundalk fan on Twitter reckons he called Harvey an “Irish c**t” which if true is extra stupid and he should probably be released…

[Yossarian]

The way the suspension is being termed by the League makes it look like it’s racist abuse. Odd considering all parties involved are all white. I’m guessing he called Harvey an “Irish C…” which may be discriminatory but isn’t racist. Stupid thing for him to say but ten matches is a bit much for it.

[Kiki Balboa]

So, let me get this right, if another player now calls Shelvey ( or any other British player) an English Pr*ck , he should now be sent off and suspended for 10 games?

Should games be stopped and fans giving life time bans if it comes from the stands?

I mean, this is now the standard for racism now.

[Another Bohemia]

So, let me get this right, if another player now calls Shelvey ( or any other British player) an English Pr*ck , he should now be sent off and suspended for 10 games?

Should games be stopped and fans giving life time bans if it comes from the stands?

I mean, this is now the standard for racism now.

Wasn't there trouble for clubs over fans calling Alan Mannus an orange ba****d? If so you could say that the FAI has made this kind of thing clear for quite a while now. I know for example that the announcement prior to any Bohs match also mentions sectarian abuse next to racism so maybe they are classing it under that.

[placid casual]

And to be fair, Harvey is one awful c**t.

[RealJohn91]

Something else that a player who joined an Irish club owned by an Irish person managed by an Irish manager playing with Irish players jumped to that as an insult. Probably not the type of character you want around your club.

[pineapple stu]

The way the suspension is being termed by the League makes it look like it’s racist abuse. Odd considering all parties involved are all white. I’m guessing he called Harvey an “Irish C…” which may be discriminatory but isn’t racist. Stupid thing for him to say but ten matches is a bit much for it.
Ah to be fair, racism isn't just about skin colour. "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" is entirely racist for example.

That said, this sounds more like a frustrated rant than any real racism and yeah, I think a 10-game ban is a bit much based on what's been said here. Should get the standard ban for the red card for abusing officials IMO.

[2 Year Contract]

The only purpose of bringing someone’s nationality into an insult is to insult their nationality. There is no other reason to do it. Rob Harvey is a c**t, but not because of the fact that he’s Irish. I know if Shelvey was playing for my club I’d want to see him sent out the door after that, as I see a lot of Dundalk fans are calling for on twitter

[seand]

So, let me get this right, if another player now calls Shelvey ( or any other British player) an English Pr*ck , he should now be sent off and suspended for 10 games?

Should games be stopped and fans giving life time bans if it comes from the stands?

I mean, this is now the standard for racism now.

Yes and yes. Please. Welcome to the 21st Century.

[seand]

Ah to be fair, racism isn't just about skin colour. "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" is entirely racist for example.

That said, this sounds more like a frustrated rant than any real racism and yeah, I think a 10-game ban is a bit much based on what's been said here. Should get the standard ban for the red card for abusing officials IMO.

What exactly is real racism/discrimination then, if not deliberately using racist/discriminatory language to insult someone?

[pineapple stu]

What exactly is real racism/discrimination then, if not deliberately using racist/discriminatory language to insult someone?
This sounds to me like a frustrated rant where he wants to seize on any differentiator to amplify the rant. He could equally have called the lino a fat **** or a ginger **** or something like that.

You can't go abusing officials like that and he deserves the red and a ban.

But it's only an insult in the end of the day. Do you not think it's substantially different to saying "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" or "White only area" or "Catholics can't work in State jobs"? That's real racism for me

[bluemovie]

So, let me get this right, if another player now calls Shelvey ( or any other British player) an English Pr*ck , he should now be sent off and suspended for 10 games?

Should games be stopped and fans giving life time bans if it comes from the stands?

I mean, this is now the standard for racism now.

Apart from the racist/discriminatory abuse, it's also a matter of respect for officials. If a player calls another player a cheat, it's unlikely there'll be a punishment. If they call the referee a cheat, they'll be sent off. So in your example, I'd expect to see the player given a hefty suspension, but less than if they said it to a referee as Shelvey did and as Dundalk, to their credit, have accepted.

[Nesta99]

This wouldn't happen in in sunday football in england, you are not in England. Shut up you Irish Cnut! I dunno, zero tolerance is necessary. Idiotic suff by Shelvey. Ginger halfwit......

[sbgawa]

Calling Harvey an irish can't is a factual statement on two counts. The world these days i dispair.
Maybe Harvey identifies as an Irish ****?? Has anyone considered that as an option?

[Calcio Jack]

Calling Harvey an irish can't is a factual statement on two counts. The world these days i dispair.
Maybe Harvey identifies as an Irish ****?? Has anyone considered that as an option?

If you are seriously standing over ; that calling Harvey an Irish Cnut is a factual statement then my view is that you should be suspended from this forum for the same time period as Shelvey’s ban.

[Nesta99]

The owrds were said, they make little sense in the context of someone playing for and Irish club in League of Ireland. If his suspension was say 3 games, Dundalk should add games for his pure stupidity and lack of insight.

We all have wintessed worse, thats not to say it is ever acceptable. Maybe id call for a softer ban for Dundlk ye could be all for the 10 match ban for another clubs' players.

Dundalk have done the right thing by accepting the ban and will educate the playe etc.

It does bring in to question former slaps on the wrist for similar indescretions and it sets a precedence going forward.

Who was the Pats player and bunch of years ago that was in trouble for passing comment to a black player just out of interest?

Supposedly Shelvey was warned initially at the time but didnt back down Comparison was made of refereeing from other leagues that opened the door for a stupid slanging match.

We do need to keep standards on this high but and there is always a but, previoua conduct should f etcctor in.

How about for such incidents 3 match ban with 7 susoended if the player engages in a discrimintion awareness course

Munro back in which would please plenty.

I expect the FAI to clamp down on anything and everything in relation to bigitry

[sbgawa]

If you are seriously standing over ; that calling Harvey an Irish Cnut is a factual statement then my view is that you should be suspended from this forum for the same time period as Shelvey’s ban.


Calm down will you for Gods sake.
There isnt a week goes by on this forum or others where Harvey isnt called some insult or other including earlier in this thread and he is Irish,
I think a ten game ban is a massive over reaction, fine if the ref was black and he called him the n word or something but 10 for an insulting jibe between two lads from ireland and England is OTT.
It is however typical of the way the world has gone.
Nestas suggestion of a 3 game ban and suspended balance would have been good enough while also making the point he was an eejit.

[2 Year Contract]

Who was the Pats player and bunch of years ago that was in trouble for passing comment to a black player just out of interest?

I don’t recall any Pats player being in trouble for racist comments in the last 15-20 years anyways so not sure who you’re talking about. I do recall Jason McGuinness being at Bohs and racially abusing Sligo's Romould Boco. Then Sligo later signed McGuinness only after checking with Boco if he was ok with the signing.

Other incidents involving Pats players was, 2 black players being racially abused by CSKA Sofia fans in Tallaght in 2022 and the second half of a game in the Showgrounds being delayed by the ref after David Odumosu was racially abused by a Sligo fan from behind the goals when going out for the second half, again in 2022

[Kiki Balboa]

Other incidents involving Pats players was, 2 black players being racially abused by CSKA Sofia fans in Tallaght in 2022 and the second half of a game in the Showgrounds being delayed by the ref after David Odumosu was racially abused by a Sligo fan from behind the goals when going out for the second half, again in 2022

I think what doesn't sit right with me is that Shelvey is getting a bigger punishment/attention for this incident than the others. It appears as if racism against non-Irish individuals is merely met with performative consequences, such as rhetorical statements, while actual punishment is reserved for those who make (more minor to me) missteps when interacting with an Irish person - like a weird power play.

For the record, Shelvey should be getting a suspension. You simply can not go up to the ref and calling him a c**t. No matter what, you should face sanctions for that.

But reading through a lot of the comments, it reads far that this is getting back at an English lad more than anything. If the comments came from a player of another nationality, would there be this furore? The whole thing has a weird nationalist bent on it for me.

10 games is nearly a 1/3 of a season, and for a player that is trying to rebuild his career here, that is a hell of a sanction. (Not that he is a loss to Dundalk either though)

[2 Year Contract]

I think what doesn't sit right with me is that Shelvey is getting a bigger punishment/attention for this incident than the others. It appears as if racism against non-Irish individuals is merely met with performative consequences, such as rhetorical statements, while actual punishment is reserved for those who make (more minor to me) missteps when interacting with an Irish person - like a weird power play.

For the record, Shelvey should be getting a suspension. You simply can not go up to the ref and calling him a c**t. No matter what, you should face sanctions for that.

But reading through a lot of the comments, it reads far that this is getting back at an English lad more than anything. If the comments came from a player of another nationality, would there be this furore? The whole thing has a weird nationalist bent on it for me.

10 games is nearly a 1/3 of a season, and for a player that is trying to rebuild his career here, that is a hell of a sanction. (Not that he is a loss to Dundalk either though)

The two incidents quoted are different however as they’re fan related and in both cases the fan(s) wasn’t identified. A couple of months ago a 9 year old in Richmond said a racist comment to a shels coach and was caught and identified by fans around him and he’s not let back in the ground, while the club also spoke to his parents regarding educating him on the matter.

The McGuinness incident, drew a 5 game ban: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/mcguinness-apologises-for-racial-abuse-1.1227012 Although it did happen 15 years ago so the sanction has very likely changed since then. Based on the statement, it seems that 10 games is the punishment for this now and Shelvey is just the first to receive the ban

[Kiki Balboa]

The two incidents quoted are different however as they’re fan related and in both cases the fan(s) wasn’t identified. A couple of months ago a 9 year old in Richmond said a racist comment to a shels coach and was caught and identified by fans around him and he’s not let back in the ground, while the club also spoke to his parents regarding educating him on the matter.

The McGuinness incident, drew a 5 game ban: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/mcguinness-apologises-for-racial-abuse-1.1227012 Although it did happen 15 years ago so the sanction has very likely changed since then. Based on the statement, it seems that 10 games is the punishment for this now and Shelvey is just the first to receive the ban

Those are fair points. I forgot about that Shels/Pats incident.

[sbgawa]

I suppose the problem is its hard to set rules and leave room for ambiguity but I still think 10 games for an English guy calling a guy irish with an insult attached is not the same as the racism that we would acknowledge as wrong or wronger if u get my meaning.

[Straightstory]

So, if you call someone a 'c**t' it's just a bit of banter. But an 'Irish c**t' deserves a ten match suspension. If this happened in England where an Irish player was abused, it would be a totally different situation. The player would feel isolated and singled out. But this happened in Ireland, for goodness sake - where basically almost all the players and all the spectators are Irish. The grovelling response from Dundalk is pathetic - but also hilarious:
"Going forward, Dundalk FC will work with George to develop his understanding of these issues."

I'd love to be a fly on the wall as George undergoes his 're-education'. How did the world that George Orwell predicted actually come to pass? We live in crazy times.

[Olé Olé]

I think what doesn't sit right with me is that Shelvey is getting a bigger punishment/attention for this incident than the others. It appears as if racism against non-Irish individuals is merely met with performative consequences, such as rhetorical statements, while actual punishment is reserved for those who make (more minor to me) missteps when interacting with an Irish person - like a weird power play.

For the record, Shelvey should be getting a suspension. You simply can not go up to the ref and calling him a c**t. No matter what, you should face sanctions for that.

But reading through a lot of the comments, it reads far that this is getting back at an English lad more than anything. If the comments came from a player of another nationality, would there be this furore? The whole thing has a weird nationalist bent on it for me.

10 games is nearly a 1/3 of a season, and for a player that is trying to rebuild his career here, that is a hell of a sanction. (Not that he is a loss to Dundalk either though)

Do you really think that someone from another country would instinctively string the words "Irish" and "c***" together? This is about him being English in more than one way. He's getting nailed because he is English. But he also said it because he is English.

In the same way, the abuse James McClean receives in England is largely ignored. Because he is Irish. And he gets that specific type of abuse. Because he is Irish.

Not sure whether Harvey has posted picture in a balaclava recently or whether he has any strong views on the British Monarchy...

[bluemovie]

So, if you call someone a 'c**t' it's just a bit of banter. But an 'Irish c**t' deserves a ten match suspension. If this happened in England where an Irish player was abused, it would be a totally different situation. The player would feel isolated and singled out. But this happened in Ireland, for goodness sake - where basically almost all the players and all the spectators are Irish. The grovelling response from Dundalk is pathetic - but also hilarious:
"Going forward, Dundalk FC will work with George to develop his understanding of these issues."

I'd love to be a fly on the wall as George undergoes his 're-education'. How did the world that George Orwell predicted actually come to pass? We live in crazy times.

I wouldn't be using Orwell to play down racism. He was fervently against racism and fascism. Re-read Nineteen Eighty-Four maybe because the dystopian future he wrote about is actually against dehumanising language, not supporting it.

[Calcio Jack]

Calm down will you for Gods sake.
There isnt a week goes by on this forum or others where Harvey isnt called some insult or other including earlier in this thread and he is Irish,
I think a ten game ban is a massive over reaction, fine if the ref was black and he called him the n word or something but 10 for an insulting jibe between two lads from ireland and England is OTT.
It is however typical of the way the world has gone.
Nestas suggestion of a 3 game ban and suspended balance would have been good enough while also making the point he was an eejit.

Firstly we get the typical mansplaining of “.. calm down for gods sake…” to attempt to deflect and create a false narrative ; so spare us that in future.

Whether one agrees with severity etc of the ban ( for what it’s worth personally I also agree it is too harsh) isn’t the point of my comment….

I’m simply saying that to agree what Shelvey said is factual and therefore legitimate means you therefore appear to be endorsing his behaviour and imo to think that way and post that view deserves to be sanctioned…. What Shelvey said was incorrect and disgusting and he deserved to be punished and anyone supporting it ( despite Shelvey himself apologising) needs to imo consider reappraising their view.

[Nesta99]

The McClean abuse is more to do with the poppy brigae and the pressue for all to wear oe in November. McCleans refusal to do so started the abuse to him and he happens to be Irish. There are plenty of Irish, pundits and players that have no issue with symbolism involved and dont get targeted with anti irish abuse. McClean is entitled to his views and shoildnt be targeted for them. It not ignored because he is Irish per se but because the situation was widespread and could be resolved by McClean himself eg he was offered a green popy shirt which was for remembering Irish servicemen of the 1st and 2nd World Wars as a compromise, as marginal the differences is.

It doesnt make much difference in a whataboutery way, its wrong, but over the years I have heard far more anglophobic abuse of players than any other group in LoI and seemed to be accepted when colour wast the root of the abuse. Brit bashing Derry City fans wouldnt be uncommon as a wind up on the terraces.

As long as things are consistant now that this precenent is set so be it now.

[Nesta99]

I don’t recall any Pats player being in trouble for racist comments in the last 15-20 years anyways so not sure who you’re talking about. I do recall Jason McGuinness being at Bohs and racially abusing Sligo's Romould Boco. Then Sligo later signed McGuinness only after checking with Boco if he was ok with the signing.

Other incidents involving Pats players was, 2 black players being racially abused by CSKA Sofia fans in Tallaght in 2022 and the second half of a game in the Showgrounds being delayed by the ref after David Odumosu was racially abused by a Sligo fan from behind the goals when going out for the second half, again in 2022

Yup this is what I was thinking of, apologies for the error.
I also recall quite a lot of abuse directed and Zayed after he declared for Libya during his time at Derry. In fear of sounding like im in some way condoning things a lot of the abuse was when he was with Rovers and Bohs fans the culprits - it would have had less to do with racism and more to do with that he was a Rovers player - if he had been a bit tubby, lanky, redhead, bald etc the abuse would have taken some form.

for the record, I think the worst abuse I witnessed and maybe it was because it was a first for me, not being old enough to go to away games then, was of Curtis Flemming in Oriel when he was at St Pats. I recall one particular individual, now deceased, practically running the line beside Flemming. When watching an Ireland game on TV in Oriel Park years later, the same guy was retelling and bragging about the abuse he gave Flemming and whenever Flemming touched the ball yer man was up shouting 'C'mon Curtis' and talking up his LoI roots....

Racism is rasicism, bigoty bigotry, im not sure there should be degress or levels - it happened or it didnt, non of this lower end of the scale you hear when bans are issued, mainly EFL standard type statements. But tbh I dont think many of culprits actually realise what they are at, its a bit of craic, in the moment, would shake the players hand after the game etc etc. Lack of insight isnt an excuse and education is needed but a lot of these morons would atually see what they were doing if it was pointed out. Its not like in areas of Spain where it is deeply rooted and done with intention. Anyway I digress....Shelvey deserves his ban as much for being an idiot as for his comment albeit Harvey was just short of telling Shelvey to go back to Engalnd if he didnt rate it here, it was certainly inferred imo and it elicited the response in question.