Republic of Ireland V Belgium - Saturday, 23rd March 2024 - Friendly

[ontheotherhand]

It does make sense because Travers' and Bazunu's situations aren't comparable really. Travers is an old school type of keeper. Big lad, good shot stopper, big boot on him. He'll thrive at Championship level whenever he plays there, but his strengths don't suit what 90% of Premier League teams are looking for from a keeper.

Whereas Bazunu is a Premier League keeper in terms of his style of play. He'll take more risks, and will get caught out sometimes - and moreso in the Premier League because the standard is higher - but teams will accept that because of the style of keeper he is. Travers seems like a really decent lad, but his only battle here is with Max O'Leary for the third choice keeper spot in the squad.

Wonder how Ireland will set up.....will distribution be as important moving forward?

I'd still have Kelleher and Bazunu over Travers but if we were looking for a pure shot stopper who could lump it long with the best of them, would Travers be above Bazunu in the pecking order?

This is not a serious question........I mean I really hope it's not a serious possibility......but.......fans do want us to get back to being hard to beat.....

[SkStu]

What is Kellehers career/season xGA performance out of interest? Not challenging any of the perspectives here (outside of what i already have posted), just interested in how he fares over a similar data sample... I do remember seeing some impressive sounding stats after the Chelsea game.

[ltfc_2004]

I am with JRG on this one and give them a game each. Belgium and Switzerland are good teams who on current form should batter Ireland and keep the keepers busy and we will see how they handle the pressure.

Both are good keepers and its just the other 10 players that are the problem !

[pineapple stu]

What is Kellehers career/season xGA performance out of interest? Not challenging any of the perspectives here (outside of what i already have posted), just interested in how he fares over a similar data sample... I do remember seeing some impressive sounding stats after the Chelsea game.
Well you can't have a similar data sample because of course Kelleher has played far fewer games, but fbref.com has him at +1.2 in 7 league games this year (https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_keeper_adv). It only does league games, so no League Cup final


The prevented goal stat went down -1.4 because of the Sunderland game on saturday. Im not sure how anyone could watch that and say he should save those goals.
I have a feeling it doesn't adjust for deflections, which seems a bit silly but would account for the first goal being so low. That's just a hunch though - and it would impact other keepers the same way of course, so at least the overall stat is comparable across keepers.

A flip side of that then is that the goal where he was caught in possession in his own box was given as PSxG of 0.99 because it was an open goal - technically true, but doesn't capture that the keeper had made a howler.

The second Sunderland goal would been a fantastic save, but then keepers do pull off fantastic saves from time to time. Part of the concern expressed is that his footwork isn't great (again see the l'Equipe article based on France's scouting last year), so he can at times not be in the best position to make the save in the first place. A step to the side can make a huge difference in some cases.

[Stuttgart88]

That last paragraph is just pure sophistry. Unless he'd been standing in the wrong position to start with he or any keeper wouldn't have saved it. Again, the fact that you don't just concede that it was a worldie of a goal and instead invoke your favourite French magazine comment or a bit of clever wordsmithery just tells me you're totally lacking objectivity in this discussion.

[elatedscum]

I'll just speak for myself here - I have seen dozens of goalkeepers playing for Ireland over the past 50+ years. Apart from Shay Given - we have two young, talented goalkeepers who are better than any other goalkeeper we have had during that period.


People can nit-pick about Bazunu and / or Kelleher - but remember we had goalies like Mick Kearns, Paddy Roche, Nick Colgan, David Forde, Wayne Henderson, Kieran Westwood etc - all decent lads who generally never let Ireland down - but none with the talent of Bazunu or Kelleher. We should be celebrating that these two goalkeepers are so good and are only going to get better.


This is probably the best thing written.We've got two excellent young keepers.


I wouldn't put too much weight into the numbers re Bazunu. I think we all need to recognise how basic and limited the numbers are at this stage. Most Premier League teams have their own proprietary systems, where the numbers look very different to the publicly available figures. I watch a lot of baseball - and stats models are a huge part of the game. Even over the last decade, things have moved on to the extent that everything we thought we knew was wrong. And baseball is relatively straight forward, a series of set pieces. The one thing that baseball struggles with is defensive metrics - if a fielder is good - and there’s acknowledgement in the sport that the numbers, while improving, just aren’t that reliable. And really what they’re attempting to understand is a lot easier than anything on a football pitch - and they have a history of analytics for over 30 years - and each team has dozens of data analysts working them. There’s the numbers and then there’s the interpretation of the numbers. I remember seeing a week or two ago that Haaland was 4th or 5th worse in the goals scored - xG, which is the strikers equivalent of what Bazunu is being tested on (people worse than him were Darwin Nunez, Ollie Watkins and Dominic Calvert Lewin). Yet no one would claim for a second that Haaland, Nunez, Watkins and DCL are the worst strikers in the league. Obviously, it’s not exactly like for like given strikers tend to be more influential in creating their own goals scored than keepers do in their own goals conceded) - but it does nonetheless quickly illustrate the limitations in the data.


As for whoever said ‘Kelleher has played a handful of games again this season’ - Kelleher has started 20 games this season. Of all our premier league players, that puts him 4th overall for starts in all comps.


O’Shea 27
Collins 23
Ogbene 22
Kelleher 20
Ferguson 18
Cullen 15
Omobamidele 10
Doherty 9
Egan 7
Coleman 4
Travers 3 (for Bournemouth)

[pineapple stu]

That last paragraph is just pure sophistry. Unless he'd been standing in the wrong position to start with he or any keeper wouldn't have saved it. Again, the fact that you don't just concede that it was a worldie of a goal and instead invoke your favourite French magazine comment or a bit of clever wordsmithery just tells me you're totally lacking objectivity in this discussion.
Sarcasm and bluster are sure-fire ways to show you don't really have a point Stutts.

The second Sunderland goal was a great strike and I don't blame him at all for not saving it. But the reality is, over a large enough data sample, those shots are sometimes saved. That's the point of big data - to get away from the obvious howlers and work out how often he saves the (to use a phrase you've used before on here) the 30/70 shots.

[Razors left peg]

Kelleher has been excellent, playing behind a very good defense, but hes been excellent.

Bazunu is constantly good over the course of a few seasons now, while playing behind an awful defense. Hes been good in an Ireland shirt too and has been rightly our #1 to this point.

1 game each in this window seems fair enough to me. Maybe even the same in the 2 summer games. Then we take stock where both are going into the NL games. If we are in a status quo where Kelleher his back to collecting splinters then Bazunu will be our starter most likely.

Kelleher has done enough these past few weeks that he is good enough to be a 1st choice goalkeeper for someone so I hope he doesnt go back to the bench next season, but its very possible he does.

We are going to be having this debate for the next 10 years most likely. Some posters could do with putting away their biases.

[John83]

I like to see Kellegher play the upcoming friendlies. We have plenty of evidence of what Bazunu can do - even if we can't agree what that is here - and it's of maximum use to an incoming manager to see the qualities of a viable alternative. It might also give Kellegher an additional chance to build his name in preparation for a move that would see him play regularly, which is good for us. There's little enough upside to seeing another Bazunu cap in the friendlies. If these were competitive games, I'd be much more wary of changing things up.

[tetsujin1979]

Belgium to announced their squad tomorrow. If that 10am is CET, then it's 9am here
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[Razors left peg]

I like to see Kellegher play the upcoming friendlies. We have plenty of evidence of what Bazunu can do - even if we can't agree what that is here - and it's of maximum use to an incoming manager to see the qualities of a viable alternative. It might also give Kellegher an additional chance to build his name in preparation for a move that would see him play regularly, which is good for us. There's little enough upside to seeing another Bazunu cap in the friendlies. If these were competitive games, I'd be much more wary of changing things up.

I think that leaving out Bazunu for both games would give a bad message to him tbh. Whatever people think hes been our 1st choice and players want to play. It would be poor form for an interim manager to p1ss off the player by leaving him out completely

[Stuttgart88]

Sarcasm and bluster are sure-fire ways to show you don't really have a point Stutts.

The second Sunderland goal was a great strike and I don't blame him at all for not saving it. But the reality is, over a large enough data sample, those shots are sometimes saved. That's the point of big data - to get away from the obvious howlers and work out how often he saves the (to use a phrase you've used before on here) the 30/70 shots.My point was pretty clear. And we're not talking about 30/70 shots here. That was not even a 1/99 shot.

"The second Sunderland goal would been a fantastic save, but then keepers do pull off fantastic saves from time to time. Part of the concern expressed is that his footwork isn't great (again see the l'Equipe article based on France's scouting last year), so he can at times not be in the best position to make the save in the first place. A step to the side can make a huge difference in some cases."


Your language was intended to suggest some plausible fault might to some extent be to blame. It just wasn't. Find another example - there are no shortages of them.

[pineapple stu]

I think that leaving out Bazunu for both games would give a bad message to him tbh. Whatever people think hes been our 1st choice and players want to play. It would be poor form for an interim manager to p1ss off the player by leaving him out completely
FWIW, I agree with this. Give them both a game. Maybe squeeze in a half for Travers if needed, though that may be a bit much over the window. They're all still too young for us to have decided on our long-term number 1 yet. (I include Travers in that, though obviously his loan recall has been quite disappointing)


Your language was intended to suggest some plausible fault might to some extent be to blame.
No it wasn't. You just want to attack the poster rather than the post now. (Your comment on l'Equipe being especially petty)

[Stuttgart88]

I really don't, I was only arguing against what you wrote. I actually quite like you given how far back we go!

[Crosby87]

What's the general feeling about the players caring about this one?

Do they even want to be included?

[Jolly Red Giant]

As for whoever said ‘Kelleher has played a handful of games again this season’ - Kelleher has started 20 games this season. Of all our premier league players, that puts him 4th overall for starts in all comps.
7 in the PL
1 in the FA Cup
6 in the League Cup
6 in the Europa League

[Jolly Red Giant]

It is interesting that all the discussion on this thread has been about the two very good young goalkeepers we have.

As has been pointed out - the problem isn't the goalkeepers - it is the other 10 positions on the pitch (well 9 - because of Ferguson).

[elatedscum]

7 in the PL
1 in the FA Cup
6 in the League Cup
6 in the Europa League

Yep. I included all starts in all comps for all players. I think obviously only himself and Evan are in European comps, which would be pretty valuable experience.

[Razors left peg]

What's the general feeling about the players caring about this one?

Do they even want to be included?

I think this is a good question tbh. IF the players are told that some or all of the staff will be staying on with new manager I think it matters more. If all the interim staff are back out the door after these 2 games I wouldnt be surprised if we had a lot of pull outs

[tetsujin1979]

Belgian squad named
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[tetsujin1979]

Ireland squad announced at 12:30
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Press conference on YouTube at 1:45

[JR89]

1768245944745943445

Just a guess ya know but I'd say Szmodics might get a call up.

[backstothewall]

Thought I would post my ideas for a squad before JOSH reveals his. I don't think I've missed any injuries but no guarantees


Bazunu, Kelleher, O’Leary
Coleman, Ebosele, Doherty, Collins, Omobamidele, O’Shea, O’Brien, Scales, Manning, Garcia-McNulty,
Hodge, Cullen, Smallbone, Knight, Moran, Ogbene, Connolly, McAteer, Johnston,
Szmodics, Ferguson, Idah, Cannon, Parrott, Obafemi,

[jbyrne]

Republic of Ireland Squad - Belgium & Switzerland

Goalkeepers: Gavin Bazunu (Southampton), Caoimhin Kelleher (Liverpool), Mark Travers (AFC Bournemouth)

Defenders: Seamus Coleman (Everton), Matt Doherty (Wolverhampton Wanderers), Nathan Collins (Brentford), Andrew Omobamidele (Nottingham Forest), Dara O'Shea (Burnley), Liam Scales (Celtic), Jake O'Brien (Lyon), Robbie Brady (Preston North End), Festy Ebosele (Udinese).

Midfielders: Josh Cullen (Burnley), Jason Knight (Bristol City), Will Smallbone (Southampton). Jamie McGrath (Aberdeen), Callum O’Dowda (Cardiff City), Mark Sykes (Bristol City), Finn Azaz (Middlesbrough), Mikey Johnston (West Bromwich Albion).

Forwards: Evan Ferguson (Brighton and Hove Albion), Adam Idah (Celtic), Michael Obafemi (Millwall, on loan from Burnley), Sammie Szmodics (Blackburn Rovers), Chiedozie Ogbene (Luton Town), Troy Parrott (Excelsior, on loan from Tottenham Hotspur).

[Eirambler]

Good squad, fair play to O'Shea bringing Azaz in rather than Moran, which was the obvious call last time around as well.

Szmodics and O'Brien deserve their call ups also.

No McAteer - wonder if there's an issue or he just wasn't picked?

Just looking at the club names alone tells you where we are in terms of midfielders at the moment. Whereas the defence is a list of clubs across European top divisions, plus a somewhat out of place looking Robbie Brady - who is presumably in there as a marginally less worse option than Manning.

And I stand by my view from a few days ago that plenty of mid rank countries around Europe would be delighted to be able to pick the six strikers we've named there.

[texidub]

Would like to see O'Brien get a game. Kinda surprised at Robbie Brady's inclusion - is he playing well these days?

The prospect of Szmodics and Ferguson up front is very exciting... Johnston feeding the pair on one side and Ogbene causing trouble on the other.

[tetsujin1979]

Squad details
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[ifk101]

Couple of interesting calls there. Brady for Manning, and no Alan Browne? Azaz hasn't been a starter for Middlesbrough recently so arguably fortunate to be included.

[Jd2793]

Couple of interesting calls there. Brady for Manning, and no Alan Browne? Azaz hasn't been a starter for Middlesbrough recently so arguably fortunate to be included.

browne injured. manning not fancied by another manager? maybe kenny knew a bit more than the rest of us (me included)

the midfield is so so poor. really need 2 or 3 players to spring up from anywhere

[ifk101]

Didn't know Browne was injured. Manning is just not a good defender, but has qualities going forward. Presumably he wanted another experienced head in there with the choice of Brady.

[Eirambler]

As well as a lack of quality, there's a real lack of depth in midfield as well. Neither Browne or Molumby are world beaters, but the centre of midfield looks light numbers wise with them missing. Hendrick as well of course but he may well be finished with Ireland. Maybe surprising that Jack Taylor hasn't made the cut given the injuries to others. Maybe someone like Lawal might be called up as cover after the Under 21 qualifier.

[Jd2793]

id be all for a back 4 of
coleman - collins - omobamidele - oshea

we are weak at lb and oshea is more than capable.

[SkStu]

Delighted with that squad to be honest (Brady a strange one maybe) and can't but be happy with O'Brien, Szmodics and Azaz finally getting the call ups they deserve. All 3 of them add another element to the squad and its potency. Will be an interesting camp and hopefully a few green shoots.

[pineapple stu]

I actually quite like you given how far back we go!
I was going to let the argument die down, but I guess this has to be acknowledged with a :) !

I guess I just get frustrated at how you (but not only you) get very uppity at the least questioning of Bazunu. I don't understand how he's so above criticism. I think there's more than an element of truth to Snapshot's post comparing him and Travers.


Couple of interesting calls there. Brady for Manning, and no Alan Browne? Azaz hasn't been a starter for Middlesbrough recently so arguably fortunate to be included.
Could say the same about Omobamidele and Obafemi in terms of not really playing lately (or at least having had long spells on the bench, though they've been playing a bit the last month or so); I think we have better options there. Keane the obvious one up front, and plenty of options at centre-back, even if Egan and Duffy are injured.

Manning as you say isn't without his critics (defensively) at Southampton and has been dropped once or twice, but I still think he has to be in there if we're going to address the wing-back issue. To still have Brady/Coleman/O'Dowda as our options is a worry. (Wouldn't fancy Scales there either, though that's a legacy from seeing him there at UCD and seeing he was much better in the centre). No MacNulty either - maybe not a massive surprise, but worth flagging as he has to be in the mix you'd have thought.

Great to see Sammy in, and O'Brien too. And even Azaz, though as SkStu has noted he hasn't had a huge impact at Boro and has been dropped the past few games.

And still startlingly light in the obvious areas.

[joey B]

id be all for a back 4 of
coleman - collins - omobamidele - oshea

we are weak at lb and oshea is more than capable.


Coleman would be a bit of a risk,very little football recently,Doherty is in the same boat but probably played a bit more,Ebosele has played the most but I don’t see him getting the nod,Doku against any of them is worrying though!

[pineapple stu]

Should add - I wonder did the new manager (who's supposedly been agreed) have any input?

[Eirambler]

we are weak at lb and oshea is more than capable.

This has been my view for a while. Admittedly he's not a natural left back, or even left footed, but he's quick for a centre back, has played the position before at a high level and is more defensively solid than any other option we could put there.

[JR89]

Coleman would be a bit of a risk,very little football recently,Doherty is in the same boat but probably played a bit more,Ebosele has played the most but I don’t see him getting the nod,Doku against any of them is worrying though!

Doubt we'll see a flat back four. Five CBs and no LBs named screams 3-5-2.

[Jd2793]

Doubt we'll see a flat back four. Five CBs and no LBs named screams 3-5-2.

yeah fair enough. hopefully see ebosele get minutes at rwb. if its 3-5-2 think ogbene should be our starting rwb too. none of this playing him up top carry on.

[Eirambler]

We don't have any left backs to name to be honest. Manning looks like a fish up a tree playing there, Stevens is done. O'Dowda, Brady, Scales and possibly O'Shea are as close to left backs as we have, so I don't think the selection really tells us a whole lot about formation.

[Eirambler]

McAteer out injured according to O'Shea, so it sounds like he's fully eligible now other than that.

[Razors left peg]

We don't have any left backs to name to be honest. Manning looks like a fish up a tree playing there, Stevens is done. O'Dowda, Brady, Scales and possibly O'Shea are as close to left backs as we have, so I don't think the selection really tells us a whole lot about formation.

Wasn't Kenny the devil for not picking Manning for the longest time.

Good squad. Brady is nonsense, but overall good

[Razors left peg]

Should add - I wonder did the new manager (who's supposedly been agreed) have any input?

1768273779220697190

Apparently not

[ltfc_2004]

He picked the squad that was available to him, no real shocks and Brady probably bring a bit of experience with him.

[Eirambler]

Wasn't Kenny the devil for not picking Manning for the longest time.

Good squad. Brady is nonsense, but overall good

Not from me anyway, for all Kenny's faults (and there were many), not picking Manning wasn't one of them. I'd be more critical of him not trying something a bit more out of the box at left back than I would be of anything to do with Manning.

He's a nice, tidy footballer, but an international quality left back he absolutely isn't.

[Jd2793]

Not from me anyway, for all Kenny's faults (and there were many), not picking Manning wasn't one of them. I'd be more critical of him not trying something a bit more out of the box at left back than I would be of anything to do with Manning.

He's a nice, tidy footballer, but an international quality left back he absolutely isn't.


yeah i was critical of him at the time for not picking manning but eventually he did pick him. a new manager not picking him vindicates kenny tbf. mikey johnston looks like another good shout on player ability from SK, pity about the rest of the management stuff he struggled with

[Crosby87]

What if they win 12-1?

Do they tell the mystery permanent manager to remain a mystery, permanently?

[elatedscum]

Manning missing out through injury. JOS said he has a chance to make the second half of the camp.

[Crosby87]

He's only half hurt

[backstothewall]

If Manning is injured I can see the sense in calling up Brady. Who else could be expected to start vs Belgium? But it further reinforces the point that we need to be giving opportunities to a younger option.

What do we do if/when Manning is injured again in a years time?

The way things have worked out I would have gone with Garcia-MacNulty, but I wouldn't argue with any of the 3 left backs in the u21 squad being in the senior squad.