Politics and sport

[Shinkicker]

https://twitter.com/reptracker/status/1761006059567661265?t=P8X6YbTFhaXI-GSa2qsKpw&s=19
The attached link apparently shows the ROI U17 women turning their backs while the iserali national anthem was being played. Surely these kids are too young to fully understand what going on politically, to take this stance. If they really felt that strongly about it they shouldn't have took to the pitch at all.
Underage sports should not be allowed to make any political statements.

[culloty82]

A rather sweeping generalisation - some teenagers will be very engaged with politics, climate change and various social issues, just as some adults will deliberately avoid all current affairs. Now one can legitimately ask whether individual squad members should feel pressurised to participate in such gestures, but assuming it was collectively agreed before KO, then you have to admire them for sticking to their principles.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

They can make whatever statement they want really. Authorities will deal with them if they’ve any issues with it. Strange there was much made of the basketball game and nothing about this.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I'd say they being an underage side might have been a factor there.

If they want to take such an action, so be it, as long as they are also prepared for any possible consequences. Deliberately disrespecting an anthem doesn't feel right to me personally, though it's hardly the most provocative thing that could have been done (that would probably have been to refuse to play altogether). I'd always say that if you're ****ed off at Israel, go out and paste them on the field.

[Shinkicker]

A rather sweeping generalisation - some teenagers will be very engaged with politics, climate change and various social issues, just as some adults will deliberately avoid all current affairs. Now one can legitimately ask whether individual squad members should feel pressurised to participate in such gestures, but assuming it was collectively agreed before KO, then you have to admire them for sticking to their principles.
If they really wanted to stick to their principals they would have made a better statement by refusing to play.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think it's that easy. We saw with the basketball that there was a significant financial threat which could in theory have closed down the organisation.

Maybe we should say that's an acceptable price to pay to really make Israel out as pariahs - but ultimately what would it really achieve? Would it achieve any more than this protest? The story seems to be getting a bit of traction on social media so that alone is a plus.

In reality of course it needs UEFA to treat Israel the same way as it's treating Russia, given both are involved in very similar incidents of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I agree in general about using kids for political statements, but then again Israel are so clearly in the wrong here that I think a 17-year-old is capable of realising that some form of protest is reasonable.

[Nesta99]

We are a particularly politicaly aware population and youth engagement with political issues is a lot higher than posted averages elsewhere, NI also, for abvious reasons. It ebbs and wanes of course, massive growth in awareness in US youth politics is recent and not seen since Vietnam anti war protests An awareness doesnt always equate to informed mind! I would hate to think that this protest was suggested or driven by coaching staff, or that it was just following a senior example, though there is no precedence for this. Id echo EP that it hopefully was a collective decision. It heartens me to see young people being politically active, young UN, Students' Unions especially at third level, taking a stand on international issues like this. Ye dont have to agree with the politics but activism is evidence of a healthy democracy or an unhealthy one where change can happen.

[Calcio Jack]

If they really wanted to stick to their principals they would have made a better statement by refusing to play.

All I can say is that when I was 17 I’d of embraced the Israel anthem as an act of solidarity as I would do today - so I find it difficult to believe not even one of the current squad might feel the same - bottom line is that imo sports events shouldn’t be used like that - as a previous poster mentioned if you feel that strongly then don’t participate- older readers would remember how some of us went to play rugby during the apartheid regime and others didn’t

[passinginterest]

https://www.balls.ie/football/ireland-israel-u17-fai-statement-588657

Seems they just turned to face the tricolour for our anthem.

[RealJohn91]

The Israelis trying to smear us again, shame on them.

[pineapple stu]

https://www.balls.ie/football/ireland-israel-u17-fai-statement-588657

Seems they just turned to face the tricolour for our anthem.
Wow. I mean, I wouldn't have blamed them for turning away in the circumstances. But truth is important. And we know from the Wix software scandal last year what the Israelis are like in terms of manipulating social media in favour of their cause.

Utter scumbags.

[Nesta99]

Ah ffs! Its is increasingly scary that this nuclear armed country are seeing enemies everywhere, paranoid to the point of behaviour that is reminisent of some 1930s political leaders. The conduct of which which ultimately resulted in the foundation of the state of Israel, as crude as that was managed. Will the persecution of another people result in parallel creation of a state to home the persecuted.

[ToberonaTornado]

Leave them to it on x or twotter or whatever it's called these days and don't be importing this crap on to foot ie
Although I haven't been the greatest contributor on this forum recently I've always seen this place as a good space that deals with football and nothing else.
The owner happily provides a space on this forum for anyone wanting a scrap

[NeverFeltBetter]

https://www.balls.ie/football/ireland-israel-u17-fai-statement-588657

Seems they just turned to face the tricolour for our anthem.

Ah here, that's irritating to read. Some commentators making claims about the Irish deserve a slap for starting this fire.

[sulywaterfordfc]

https://twitter.com/reptracker/status/1761006059567661265?t=P8X6YbTFhaXI-GSa2qsKpw&s=19
The attached link apparently shows the ROI U17 women turning their backs while the iserali national anthem was being played. Surely these kids are too young to fully understand what going on politically, to take this stance. If they really felt that strongly about it they shouldn't have took to the pitch at all.
Underage sports should not be allowed to make any political statements.

I’m hearing the Irish players turned to face the Irish flag during the Irish national anthem. Apparently it had nothing to do with the opposition.

[Nesta99]

Various reports are bing pulled since clarification. Doesnt take away from the waaayyy over the top reaction by Israelis and their rabid with us or against us horse sh1t. Although already at a pretty low bar, I am growing less and less tolerant of Israel in general drven by their ongoing 'reaction' to every and any criticism, perceived or otherwise. Am I an anti-semite because I think that the country of Israel is busting a fly with a sledgehammer....

[Shinkicker]

I’m hearing the Irish players turned to face the Irish flag during the Irish national anthem. Apparently it had nothing to do with the opposition.
Just saw that, you will see in my original post I said "apparently" just in case there was an alternative solution or in case it had been doctored in some way.

[Knocklyonhoop]

Various reports are bing pulled since clarification. Doesnt take away from the waaayyy over the top reaction by Israelis and their rabid with us or against us horse sh1t. Although already at a pretty low bar, I am growing less and less tolerant of Israel in general drven by their ongoing 'reaction' to every and any criticism, perceived or otherwise. Am I an anti-semite because I think that the country of Israel is busting a fly with a sledgehammer....

the majority of Israelis would indeed accuse you of that

[pineapple stu]

Just saw that, you will see in my original post I said "apparently" just in case there was an alternative solution or in case it had been doctored in some way.
Tets has posted the video of it over in the Ireland forum


Claims from Israel today that the Ireland team turned away while the Israeli anthem was being played.
The game against Israel was streamed on YouTube, see below
The Israeli anthem is played at 2:48, and the Ireland team does not turn around until the Irish anthem is played at 4:18, to face the tricolour
Ireland went on to win 3-0
w10lxFa9hbs

I'm sure the Israeli embassy will be signing up shortly to post rebuttals (as they've tried before)

[TonyD]

Tets has posted the video of it over in the Ireland forum



I'm sure the Israeli embassy will be signing up shortly to post rebuttals (as they've tried before)

I’m sure they will acknowledge they were wrong and apologise, as they’ve done bef.......oh, wait.

[cláirseach]

Just saw that, you will see in my original post I said "apparently" just in case there was an alternative solution or in case it had been doctored in some way.

"You will see.." ahahaha

[pineapple stu]

I’m sure they will acknowledge they were wrong and apologise, as they’ve done bef.......oh, wait.
Actually...

1761033936753279058

Ok, it's just one journalist rather than the Embassy (albeit I think he might have been the one who started the rumour)

And I've no doubt he'll be back accusing someone else of irrational anti-Semitism shortly

Still, if nothing else, this definitely proves the girls didn't turn their backs on the Israelis. And I'd still have supported them if they had

[redobit]

Ah here. This is just complete propaganda. Sure youcould even see in the video some of the Irish girls clapping at the end of the Israel anthem.
They act without impunity, at all levels. It really is getting serious now. They have even stopped listening to the the US.

[TonyD]

I’m sure they will acknowledge they were wrong and apologise, as they’ve done bef.......oh, wait.


Actually...

1761033936753279058

Ok, it's just one journalist rather than the Embassy (albeit I think he might have been the one who started the rumour)

And I've no doubt he'll be back accusing someone else of irrational anti-Semitism shortly

Still, if nothing else, this definitely proves the girls didn't turn their backs on the Israelis. And I'd still have supported them if they had

Well, I stand corrected. Always a first time I suppose. Though I see he couldn’t quite bring himself to apologise.

[pineapple stu]

Though I see he couldn’t quite bring himself to apologise.
Very good point actually.

[Shinkicker]

"You will see.." ahahaha
??????

[oldfan]

Is playing National Anthems bringing politics into sport in the first instance?

[Nesta99]

In Netanya, on Freedom Square, from sunrise to sunset, every day, kids from 12-18years march waving Israeli flags as footdrill formation display, about 30 of them. It was a little unnerving tbh. What was more thn a little unnerving was when taking a picture of this, one of the Israeli paramiltary police cars pulled up beside me to instruct me to delete any pic and that taking any pic or vids wasnt allowed. Definitely the strangest place I have been following Dundalk FC.

[Buckett]

Should this nonsense not be in the international threads?

[Jolly Red Giant]

All I can say is that when I was 17 I’d of embraced the Israel anthem as an act of solidarity as I would do today - so I find it difficult to believe not even one of the current squad might feel the same - bottom line is that imo sports events shouldn’t be used like that - as a previous poster mentioned if you feel that strongly then don’t participate- older readers would remember how some of us went to play rugby during the apartheid regime and others didn’t
Well I would assume that the girls were engaging in an act of solidarity with the 2.5million people who have been bombarded with shells, bombs and missiles for the past 4 1/2 months which has resulted so far in the deaths of almost 30,000 people (with probably the same amount buried under rubble (about 40% of whom are children) and the Gaza Strip, one of the most densely populated parts of the planet being turning into a wasteland

[Bohtastic]

https://twitter.com/reptracker/status/1761006059567661265?t=P8X6YbTFhaXI-GSa2qsKpw&s=19
Underage sports should not be allowed to make any political statements.

Wow, that is quite the take.
What happens if underage players want to make political statements?
Detention? Lifetime bans or just banned until they're 18?

[Shinkicker]

Wow, that is quite the take.
What happens if underage players want to make political statements?
Detention? Lifetime bans or just banned until they're 18?
No, but you have to remember they'll not all be fully aware of the full facts to make their own mind up as to protest or not. So that would mean some are doing it because the others are, don't want to be left out or pier pressured into doing it. As I said before if they ALL really felt that passionate about the situation they shouldn't have took to the pitch and refused to play the game. Anyway we know now it wasn't a protest.

[wonder88]

Headline front page Irish News yesterday "Tánaiste (M Martin FF) the GAA must do more to encourage Catholics to join the psni".
A couple weeks back junior minister for sport (T Byrne FF) says that the government will not tell sporting organisations what to do in relation to Basketball Ireland.

I think it is time now to stop pretending. We must introduce a ban on anyone saying in public that sport and politics shouldn't mix.

[Neish]

https://twitter.com/reptracker/status/1761006059567661265?t=P8X6YbTFhaXI-GSa2qsKpw&s=19
The attached link apparently shows the ROI U17 women turning their backs while the iserali national anthem was being played. Surely these kids are too young to fully understand what going on politically, to take this stance. If they really felt that strongly about it they shouldn't have took to the pitch at all.
Underage sports should not be allowed to make any political statements.

Seems the teenagers have a better understanding than you.

FAI & UEFA deemed the games was to be played, the players may have face suspensions and fines and team would of faced points deductions or possible banning if they had not played.
Thousands of people their age have been killed by the IDF And Isreli establishment who show no remorse

Its a simple form of protest and why should 16-17 years olds be allowed to protest?

[Neish]

No, but you have to remember they'll not all be fully aware of the full facts to make their own mind up as to protest or not. So that would mean some are doing it because the others are, don't want to be left out or pier pressured into doing it. As I said before if they ALL really felt that passionate about the situation they shouldn't have took to the pitch and refused to play the game. Anyway we know now it wasn't a protest.

Another grand and sweeping statement. Only fact you need is Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent civilians in less than 6 months, the 30,000 death mark was passed a few days ago. Only a tiny percentage of these people will have had anything to do with the October 7th attack, or indeed any attack on Israel.

If you don't think that is worth protesting you are one that is ignorant

[Another Bohemia]

Headline front page Irish News yesterday "Tánaiste (M Martin FF) the GAA must do more to encourage Catholics to join the psni".
A couple weeks back junior minister for sport (T Byrne FF) says that the government will not tell sporting organisations what to do in relation to Basketball Ireland.

I think it is time now to stop pretending. We must introduce a ban on anyone saying in public that sport and politics shouldn't mix.

Let's not forget the rampant sport washing that multiple states participate in (Saudi Arabia hosting F1 races, bidding for the world cup, buying a stake in Newcastle. Qatar hosting a world cup which meant a move to a winter schedule instead of a summer one also buying PSG, Abu Dhabi and Man City/City football group). Russia and their extensive doping program for the Olympics, China and their Olympics. Sports and Politics have been linked for a long time and anyone saying otherwise has their heads firmly in the sand.

[Shinkicker]

Another grand and sweeping statement. Only fact you need is Israel has slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent civilians in less than 6 months, the 30,000 death mark was passed a few days ago. Only a tiny percentage of these people will have had anything to do with the October 7th attack, or indeed any attack on Israel.

If you don't think that is worth protesting you are one that is ignorant
I am fully aware of the numbers and the manner in how they were reached. We know now it wasn't a protest by the isish players, but if it was do you really believe a protest by 11 teenagers would stop whats going on, when governments from God only knows how many countries, high profile celebrities as well as millions possibly billions posting on FB & X (twitter) can't get them to stop.
Makes me wonder who the ignorant one is?

Be careful now and don't eat yourself.

[Neish]

I am fully aware of the numbers and the manner in how they were reached. We know now it wasn't a protest by the isish players, but if it was do you really believe a protest by 11 teenagers would stop whats going on, when governments from God only knows how many countries, high profile celebrities as well as millions possibly billions posting on FB & X (twitter) can't get them to stop.
Makes me wonder who the ignorant one is?

Be careful now and don't eat yourself.

Its exactly these sort of protests that brought about the end (or at least the beginin of the end) of South Africa's apartheid, gained civil rights for Catholics in Northern Ireland & African Americans in the USA.

You made a statement that a 16 or 17 year old can't understand political injustice & killing of a massive scale, and arrogantly refuse to back down for that, despite just about every other poster here telling you you're wrong. Seem to think a 16 or 17 year old need some celebs to tell them right from wrong. Well you need to get out more and speak to more young people as you seem to live in a very tight bubble.

[Shinkicker]

Its exactly these sort of protests that brought about the end (or at least the beginin of the end) of South Africa's apartheid, gained civil rights for Catholics in Northern Ireland & African Americans in the USA.

You made a statement that a 16 or 17 year old can't understand political injustice & killing of a massive scale, and arrogantly refuse to back down for that, despite just about every other poster here telling you you're wrong. Seem to think a 16 or 17 year old need some celebs to tell them right from wrong. Well you need to get out more and speak to more young people as you seem to live in a very tight bubble.
I never said they can't understand, I said fully understand. Not all teenagers develop at the same rate, physically and mentally. Therefore they'll not all have the same understanding of any situation. I never said nor implied 16-17 year olds needed celebs to to tell them right from wrong. I implied there are more people with more clout than teenagers making statements about the iserali/Palestine situation which are falling on deaf ears. As for talking to teenagers I have three teenage granddaughters as well as nephews and nieces. I'm gonna say probably only one could tell you the names of the iserali and palistine leaders. They all see the news and what's happening and know it's wrong but the rest are more worried about klopp leaving Liverpool and what is dua lipa wearing. They all know the difference between right and wrong and are living a good healthy, relatively carefree teenage life. Albeit in two or three that will change. Your comment re yourself and other posters telling me that I'm wrong, well thats the type of pier pressure used by oppressors which is forced on to a lot of teenagers that I was talking about in my post.
It must be how you got by in life so far, but it is certainly not how I operate. As for me living in a tight bubble, if that's what you think you are entitled to do so, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Once again, be careful and don't eat yourself.

[EalingGreen]

Sports and Politics have been linked for a long time and anyone saying otherwise has their heads firmly in the sand.It is inevitable that no matter what security precautions Sport takes to keep Politics out, the latter will often find a way of sneaking in, by an unlocked back door, if necessary.

But that is a whole lot different from Sport throwing open the front door and inviting Politics in a with a cheery "Welcome to our home, slip off your shoes and make yourself comfortable! Would you like a nice cup of tea, or maybe something stronger?"

[John83]

Once again, be careful and don't eat yourself.
I don't mod this particular subforum, but cop on to yourself or this rubbish will get you a ban.

[Nesta99]

Should this nonsense not be in the international threads?

Sport and politics being intertwined are as old as well sport and politics. Orwell is quoted ad nauseum by detractors of the value of sport with 'Sport is war minus the shooting'. The full quote is "Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting". I doubt many that use the quote have read the full essay (https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/the-sporting-spirit/) Undoubtedly an interesting read and lends to the old adage of 'the more things change the more they stay the same'.

I think this dicussion has a place in any forum, and discussion on this should be encouraged irrespective of being outside the strict topic of the forum. Its always an interesting topic and finds it's ways in to relevance - sponsorship, competitions we compete in featuring sides from countries that should arguably be excluded, our sport being complicit in sportwashing ond so on.

I thought I said it previously in the thread but cant see it but I dont think youth is a reason not to hear, and act upon their concerns. The issue would be if they were pushed in to protest, for example, by others agenda. Its why there is a serious duty of care for senior coaches and sport particpants to behave appropriately. etc etc.

Here is another 'interesting' quote/opinion on all of this stuff.....

“Sports, politics, and religion are the three passions of the badly educated. They are the Midwest's open sores. Ugly to see, a source of constant discontent, they sap the body's strength. Appalling quantities of money, time, and energy are wasted on them. The rural mind is narrow, passionate, and reckless on these matters. Greed, however shortsighted and direct, will not alone account for it. I have known men, for instance, who for years have voted squarely against their interests. Nor have I ever noticed that their surly Christian views prevented them from urging forward the smithereening, say, of Russia, China, Cuba, or Korea. And they tend to back their country like they back their local team: they have a fanatical desire to win; yelling is their forte; and if things go badly, they are inclined to sack the coach.”
William H. Gass

[Shinkicker]

I don't mod this particular subforum, but cop on to yourself or this rubbish will get you a ban.
It's part of an old saying "he's so stupid the only thing he know is not to eat himself" it was the shortened to "don't eat yourself" and if the same guy did the same thing again it was "careful now... Yada Yada Yada.
If it offends you I apologise.

[Bohtastic]

No, but you have to remember they'll not all be fully aware of the full facts to make their own mind up as to protest or not. So that would mean some are doing it because the others are, don't want to be left out or pier pressured into doing it. As I said before if they ALL really felt that passionate about the situation they shouldn't have took to the pitch and refused to play the game. Anyway we know now it wasn't a protest.


Shinkicker to the U17 players...
"So little girls, are you sure that you've done sufficient research on this issue? Sit down and tell me what you know..."
I'm imagining you stroking a handlebar moustache.

[Shinkicker]

I'm imagining you stroking a handlebar moustache.
You dreaming more like it.

[Neish]

I never said they can't understand, I said fully understand. Not all teenagers develop at the same rate, physically and mentally. Therefore they'll not all have the same understanding of any situation. I never said nor implied 16-17 year olds needed celebs to to tell them right from wrong. I implied there are more people with more clout than teenagers making statements about the iserali/Palestine situation which are falling on deaf ears. As for talking to teenagers I have three teenage granddaughters as well as nephews and nieces. I'm gonna say probably only one could tell you the names of the iserali and palistine leaders. They all see the news and what's happening and know it's wrong but the rest are more worried about klopp leaving Liverpool and what is dua lipa wearing. They all know the difference between right and wrong and are living a good healthy, relatively carefree teenage life. Albeit in two or three that will change. Your comment re yourself and other posters telling me that I'm wrong, well thats the type of pier pressure used by oppressors which is forced on to a lot of teenagers that I was talking about in my post.
It must be how you got by in life so far, but it is certainly not how I operate. As for me living in a tight bubble, if that's what you think you are entitled to do so, but you couldn't be more wrong.


Once again, be careful and don't eat yourself.


Not teenagers develop at the same rate mentally nor physically, but these girls have an understanding and obliviously did mature quicker than many there age. And yes you did imply 16-17 need celebs to tell them what to think. If you read the majority of replies thats what most got from your comments

And again I ask you why a teenager can't fully understand the situation? The internet has plenty of information for them to research

[Nesta99]

You dreaming more like it.



I'm imagining you stroking a handlebar moustache.

Ugh close thread!

[Shinkicker]

Not teenagers develop at the same rate mentally nor physically, but these girls have an understanding and obliviously did mature quicker than many there age. And yes you did imply 16-17 need celebs to tell them what to think. If you read the majority of replies thats what most got from your comments

And again I ask you why a teenager can't fully understand the situation? The internet has plenty of information for them to research
I didn't say that teenagers need politicians or celebs to tell them what to say, I did imply that politicians and celebs with more clout can't get thing stopped. If you read it differently, well that's why you are the leader of your world.
I am also content that in your world you believe every u17 player is well versed on world politics and events.
Below is part of one of your posts, I haven't cut it, it was a stand alone paragraph.
Can you clarify?

Its a simple form of protest and why should 16-17 years olds be allowed to protest?

I would finish this with my normal phrase, but i wont for two reasons
1. It upset john83, for which I apologised
2. I've never had to use it three times on anybody

[Neish]

I didn't say that teenagers need politicians or celebs to tell them what to say, I did imply that politicians and celebs with more clout can't get thing stopped. If you read it differently, well that's why you are the leader of your world.
I am also content that in your world you believe every u17 player is well versed on world politics and events.
Below is part of one of your posts, I haven't cut it, it was a stand alone paragraph.
Can you clarify?

Its a simple form of protest and why should 16-17 years olds be allowed to protest?

I would finish this with my normal phrase, but i wont for two reasons
1. It upset john83, for which I apologised
2. I've never had to use it three times on anybody

I never said every u17 player is well versed in the full history and current affairs of the Israel & Palestine ,you don't need to be aware of every little bit of data on the issue to see killing 30,000 in response to approx 1,300 is wrong.

Its now been reported that the girls simple turned to face their nation flag, which just shows how fragile the current Israeli establishment are, seeing every little comment or action as antisemitism. Trying to shutdown all criticism no matter how just , which is straight from the play book of every totalitarian state

The quote you used from me is obviously a typo was meant to read "Its a simple form of protest and why shouldn't 16-17 years olds be allowed to protest?" I would of thought reading my previous comment anyone with a bit of common sense would of realised that

As for you're normal phrase, I never heard it in my 43 years living on the planet and I just tried googling it, got no results for the phrase. So its not as common as you think

[Shinkicker]

I never said every u17 player is well versed in the full history and current affairs of the Israel & Palestine . I said these girls were and you don't need to be aware of every little bit of data on the issue to see killing 30,000 in response to approx 1,300 is wrong.

The quote you used from me is obviously a typo was meant to read "Its a simple form of protest and why shouldn't 16-17 years olds be allowed to protest?" I would of thought reading my previous comment anyone with a bit of common sense would of realised that

As for you're normal phrase, I never heard it in my 43 years living on the planet and I just tried googling it, got no results for the phrase. So its not as common as you think
I'm glad you accepted your mistake, it just proves you are not as perfect as you thought you were. If you've never heard the phrase before it's probably just doesn't exist in your world. This makes me wonder,
Now who is living in a tight bubble?
you don't need to be aware of every little bit of data on the issue to see killing 30,000 in response to approx 1,300 is wrong
are you saying it was OK to kill the 1300? Or the iseralies should only have killed 1300?
Because I believe the first death regardless as the which side it was on was one too many.