Swiss v Israel....score

[Stuttgart88]

Ha Ha, there's a few of us thinking the same things at the same time, but who can type the quickest!

[onenilgameover]

Fascinating group.
Glad its keeping your interest up then Stuttgart88... :rolleyes:

Fair play to the Israeli's

[Colbert Report]

the English word is "spoiler"

[elroy]

Nowhere out here in the Canaries showed it, not even the Irish bars, draw is def the best result, a win would have given the team a clear advantage over us. especially if it was Israel as they have only the faroes left to play.
I really think the key game for us is against the Swiss, We MUST beat them, a draw will be ok on wed but we must beat the swiss, we´re due a good win over them anyway.

[Levantine]

The rules on the FIFA website make no mention of away goals, so yes.

Actually, if there is no consideration of away goals, then the whole consideration of head to head goal difference is irrelevant. According to FIFA's regulations (http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19085.pdf) , the next consideration in line is "greater number of goals scored in the group matches between the teams concerned", where Israel is currently in lead with 7 goals.
Which interestingly gives the power to the rest of the squads to push each other ahead by getting multi-goals draws. :eek:

Anyway... this group refuses to be resolved. It was a bit sad to see Israel letting go on offence at the last 15 minutes. It could have been a win - the Swiss really sucked...

[Stuttgart88]

It's irrelevant now & has been since each "top" team drew with each other once. But say team A beat team B 2-0 & then B beat A 3-0, B would go through if they were tied on points.

It is still very possible for total group goal difference to decide the final order.

[Levantine]

I don't think such a scenario is possible, since all top teams have already drawn at least once with the rest. I agree that it's very likely that not all 4 will be tied at the end, but in that case I suspect that simple point would be enough to decide the top 2, and goal difference would be an academic issue.

In the mean time, the faroes fail to surprise... 0-2 down in France.

[Volcán Masaya]

Check this out...... http://www.worldcup.somee.com/default.aspx

[OwlsFan]

I repeat what I said earlier. if we beat the Swiss and Cyprus we're guaranteed a play off position becuase we will have more points than Israel and at worst the same as the Swiss and since in such circumstances we will have taken more points off them, we finish ahead of them. This is clear from Article 7.7 (no doubt). Same applies if we beat France and Cyprus.

[Slash/ED]

And if we can't beat Switzerland and Cyprus we don't deserve to goto Germany anyway.

[Colbert Report]

That's like saying if you blew a one nil away lead to Israel and then a two nil home lead to Israel you don't deserve to go to the World Cup.

[tetsujin1979]

That's like saying if you blew a one nil away lead to Israel and then a two nil home lead to Israel you don't deserve to go to the World Cup.
To be fair, that's true, but every other side in contention for first spot/play off place has done the same
And we all still deserve to go to the World Cup!!
Like a wise man once said, the best team in a league wins it, the others make excuses for not winning it

[pineapple stu]

Why in the name of God can they not let overall goal difference and goals scored decide placings?! Far easier...

[Volcán Masaya]

Why in the name of God can they not let overall goal difference and goals scored decide placings?! Far easier...

Because different groups have different numbers of teams, some 6 some 7. On top of that some groups have more minnows that others and some minnows are excedingly weak (San Marino etc) while others have reached a decent enough level to where you can't put a bucketfull of goals past them anymore, or they even manage the occasional draw (Faeroes, Leichtenstein etc).

So to make things fairer, when deciding placings to break ties they use only results against top 4 teams.

[mypost]

if we run up a very big score in Cyprus.

:eek:

A very big score for us, especially under the current conservative regime, is when we win 3-0. :rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

Yes, if we beat the Swiss and Cyprus and the French beat us and lose to the Swiss we'll be all tied and each will have the same amount of points from each other. Then it's down to goals scored against each other :eek:

We need to beat Cyprus and roll the Swiss :D. When is the Swiss vs France game ? Same night as we're in Cyprus?

[Stuttgart88]

Glad its keeping your interest up then Stuttgart88... :rolleyes:
Huh? :confused:

[holidaysong]

When is the Swiss vs France game ? Same night as we're in Cyprus?

Yeah. Very important day for the group.

[tricky_colour]

Why in the name of God can they not let overall goal difference and goals scored decide placings?! Far easier...

I agree, the current system may be fairer but its way to complicated, without
it written down in front of you, and even if you do have it written down or
etched in your mind you also need to know all the results of all the fixtures
played to be able to figure out the situation. (I believe?).

Probably time to go back to 2 points for a win too!

[pineapple stu]

Because different groups have different numbers of teams, some 6 some 7.
Thatonly holds when you're deciding which two of the second-placed teams are the best, though. There's no need to go into complicated rigamaroles to decide first and second within a group, because everyone's played the same games.

[Stuttgart88]

Who was it who posted last week that Israel scoring a header from outside the box was a freak and would never happen again? Nobody ever scores from headers outide the box! :)

[paul_oshea]

eirebhoy id say!! or maybe it was the jollyrodger.

[geysir]

:eek:
A very big score for us, especially under the current conservative regime, is when we win 3-0. :rolleyes:
Conservative regime?? must be an epidemic going around.
Judging by the results of the weekend, yes 3-0 against Cyprus would be "massive".
Russia 2 Liechtenstein 0 ( dustbins must be getting craftier)
Armenia 0 Holland 1 ("hard earned")
Scotland 1 Italy 1 (late enough equalizer)
Wales 0 England 1 (deflected goal)
Andorra 0 Finland 0 (dustbins dig in)
Ukraine 1 Georgia 1 (Ukraine needed win to be sure but still qualified)
France 3 Faroes 0

[Peadar]

I take it we have no chance of being the/one of the best runner(s) up?

Unlikely, since that system favours the second strongest team in the weakest groups. The second strongest team in a tough group like ours will end up with less points and have to qualify via a play-off.

[Green Army Girl]

why does it feel like every worldcup we are always relying on other teams results.

[Cowboy]

why does it feel like every worldcup we are always relying on other teams results.

we are not at this point in time, we can control our own destiny

[Peadar]

why does it feel like every worldcup we are always relying on other teams results.

Because we're an average top 20 team with fans who expect us to over achieve based on our own inflated opinions of our ability.
Probably has a lot to do with the Sky Sports sales pitch about the Premiership being the best league in the world.

[paul_oshea]

because in every world cup group we do rely on other results!!! simply because we should have won certain games that we either drew or lost!

[Stuttgart88]

why does it feel like every worldcup we are always relying on other teams results.

It might have slipped your attention but this time around we're totally in control of our destiny. If other teams' results make it that bit easier for us then great, I'd be happy. Wouldn't you?

[Green Army Girl]

It might have slipped your attention but this time around we're totally in control of our destiny. If other teams' results make it that bit easier for us then great, I'd be happy. Wouldn't you?


Of course i would be happy but we wouldnt be worrying as much and leaving things down to if Switzerland and France draw then we will win the group etc.. I think we are easily the best team in our group (on our day of course) and when we face big teams like France thats when we really do ourselves proud but wouldnt it be nice for once to not have to worry as much as we always end up doing.

[Peadar]

I think we are easily the best team in our group

Woah! Steady on there GAG!
Have some water and let the weekends alcohol pass through your system.
We're in better shape than the other teams in the group but we've done nothing to suggest that we're better than the other three challengers.
We haven't beaten any of them, remember!
France have quality all over the field and if they click, we're in big trouble.

[Green Army Girl]

Woah! Steady on there GAG!
Have some water and let the weekends alcohol pass through your system.
We're in better shape than the other teams in the group but we've done nothing to suggest that we're better than the other three challengers.
We haven't beaten any of them, remember!
France have quality all over the field and if they click, we're in big trouble.

We are a quality team and yes we may not have beaten any of them and lost to the Swiss but i fancy our chances and know we can do it i am more worried about the Swiss then the French. The French team have a great team but they arent what they use to be and i think we have a better team then them once our full squad is fit and we paly the best we know we can play

[Peadar]

We are a quality team

We've done little in this qualifying campaign to back up that opinion.
Our points reflect our performances as do those of our fellow group members.
Israel fans probably think they're team are the best in the group.
I'm certain the French think that they are.
The Swiss probably expect that they should qualify because UEFA should see to it.

[paul_oshea]

totalfootball i thought someone said on another post that what you are saying is incorrect.

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=Peadar]We've done little in this qualifying campaign to back up that opinion.
Our points reflect our performances as do those of our fellow group members.
Israel..

I know we have done ourselves very few favours losing points where we shouldnt even the best teams do that.

But i stand by my opinion that i think we are the best team in the group overall and will prove it against the likes of top teams like France.

GAG

[Stuttgart88]

Not only is qualification still in our own hands, but even if we assume we lose to France, qualification will still be in our own hands
And the great thing about this is that we can now hopefully play without any fear against the French. We can give it our best shot knowing that second place is still in our control.

[Peadar]

But i stand by my opinion that i think we are the best team in the group overall and will prove it against the likes of top teams like France.

I hope you're right!
Only time will tell.
I'll be packing all my lucky shirts, shorts, socks, scarves etc. tonight. :)

[Stuttgart88]

I wish the media would point out that losing would still leave us with a perfectly reasonable chance.I've every confidence that Kerr will make sure the players know this. I honestly think that a fear of losing would hold us back, but knowing that we can afford to lose will help us play to our best. For the same reason I'm also pretty sure that Kerr will see little benefit in settling for a draw from the start.

[Green Army Girl]

I hope you're right!
Only time will tell.
I'll be packing all my lucky shirts, shorts, socks, scarves etc. tonight. :)

Ill eat my lovely FAI hat if we dont win thats how confident i am, mind you i sometimes get these predictions wrong ;)

[OwlsFan]

The fact is no one in this group has played well - that's why all 4 teams are almost inseparable. Other than away to France, our performances have been lacklustre. But the same applies to everyone else.

What we have in our favour is that we have two home games against the French and Swiss. We must make these pay with 4 pts minimum. The result in Cyprus isn't a cert (especially if Roy Keane picks up a booking against the French and doesn't travel - remember his performance there last time!).

If lady luck shines on us we'll do it because there's nothing much between us and the French/Swiss. If she doesn't (like at home to Israel) you can leave your worterbuchs (with thanks to George Hamilton) at home.

[Peadar]

Ill eat my lovely FAI hat if we dont win thats how confident i am

Oh no, you've just gone and jinxed us! :( :D

[Lenny]

Israel fans probably think they're team are the best in the group.

As a matter of fact, israeli fans doesn't think at all that they are the best team in the group. Everyone in israel talk about the luck of coach Grant, and the majority of israeli fans think that Ireland is the best team. Ireland would easily beat the french team that israel played against (before zidan decided to come back).
So fyi, people over israel aren't stupid and they are aware of their team capabilities (almost none), and are very thankfull of their resaults so far especially the draws against Ireland.

[Peadar]

So fyi, people over israel aren't stupid and they are aware of their team capabilities

Thinking your team is the best doesn't make you stupid, it simply means you're blinded by loyalty.
Nothing wrong with it.
Deep down, I think that Ireland are the best team in the group but we just haven't proved it. I guess we're just not used to being in this position.