Kerr - Judgement Day!

[Reality Bites]

Six days to go for Kerr to prove he is the real McCoy.. it is as simple as that! One draw away against a shakey french side in stade de france where the Irish outnumbered the home support is the highlight of his tenure so far, the lowlights... where do i start lacklustre draw at home to Russia, collapse in Basle 2003, tactless use of substitutes against the Israelis etc..
How much damage has been done in that disasterous home draw against the Israelis remains to be seen and Kerrs willingness to learn from these mistakes is crucial i.e Reid must play on the right instead of the cautious Finnan Carr option, Clinton Morrison will not last 90 minutes! he cannot be replaced with a holding midfielder, Elliot must come on in the second half at some stage, we are not good enough to hold the play in our own half if we get the early advantage. Positive football and belief is Key, home advantage is also crucial, anyone lucky enough to have a ticket should bawl and shout for the 90 minutes, we must get on the frenchs backs intimidate them, Lansdowne road needs to be a fortress that day.

I hope Kerr turns things around big style next wednesday nite, A win and we have one foot in Germany, a Draw ( likely scenario) its going to be nail biting to the very end of campaign, Lose and Kerr plays outs remainder of the campaign and a new manager is appointed in January 06 while we get to look forward to another Unity cup while the real teams head to the World Cup..

[NeilMcD]

I dont think we will lose but I dont think defeat would put us out cause we stll have Switzerland to play and if we beat them we could get a playoff place. But thats negative thinking and I dont think it willl happen

[Stuttgart88]

Neil is right. We'll know a lot more about this group on Saturday night.

If Israel beats Switzerland a defeat to France will almost probablly put us out. We'd need a minnow to do us a favour, either Faroes against Israel (x2) or Cyprus at home to the Swiss.

But even if Switzerland wins against Israel we can trump that by beating Switzerland. The only caveat here is that Switzerland may beat France. That'll be bad!

As said many times already, an Israel win in Switzerland really puts the pressure on us. Though I still have a sneaking suspicion Israel may struggle in the Faroes and Switzerland may struggle in Cyprus.

[Reality Bites]

In fairness to you total football you are correct Mathematically we can still qualify if we lose, but don't fool yourself the momentum would clearly be with the french to then to go ahead and win the group and the swiss to take second place.

[Dodge]

Brian Kerr is the not only the greatest manager of all time but the greatest person ever involved in any capacity in football. And whether he can get our 2nd rate bunch of hasbeens, never gonna bes and the odd gem to the world cup will not change that

[Donal81]

Losing to France shouldn't be an option when we can beat them.

I don't like it when fans rush to judgement and scream for this and that without patience or perspective but I agree with a lot of the points from Reality Bites. Kerr has made some decisions that I think went against us (putting Duff upfront against Israel when Keane got injured - when will we learn that whatever Duff's merits as a striker, he is simply much more effective for the team as a whole as a winger) but let's not discount the disgraceful scenes from the Israel game at home or the relative bad luck of a last minute goal away to them.

I wouldn't call for the guy's head if we lose or fail to qualify as I think this team is growing and there's more talent coming through but this Irish team has yet to produce a truly great performance in this campaign and has yet to bring home a truly great result. Whatever about bad luck, bad refereeing decisions etc, an entire campaign without that is unacceptable. This is our opportunity to prove that we deserve to go to the World Cup and Kerr's to prove that his team is capable of playing like the great Irish teams that came before him.

[TerryPhelan]

As said many times already, an Israel win in Switzerland really puts the pressure on us. Though I still have a sneaking suspicion Israel may struggle in the Faroes and Switzerland may struggle in Cyprus.


Switzerland did struggle in Cyprus - winning 1-0 with an 89th minute goal. They should have an easier ride at home though. I think Switzerland will beat Israel by 2 clear goals and set themselves up to top the group.

[paul_oshea]

well i know one thing for sure the more I think about the possible outcomes the more hair falls out in my head and the more confused i become!!! :o

[Reality Bites]

I agree with Donal81, he has yet to achieve a a big result as Irish manager The title of this thread pointed out that next Wednesday will say alot about Kerr as a manager.. certain individuals on this board seem to react very strongly with even the slightest criticism of Kerr..Its my opinion that he just hasn't cut the mustard yet and i see Wednesday nite as his chance to prove me wrong.

[NeilMcD]

Switzerland did struggle in Cyprus - winning 1-0 with an 89th minute goal. They should have an easier ride at home though. I think Switzerland will beat Israel by 2 clear goals and set themselves up to top the group.


I think that game was in Switzerland so they have to travel to Cyprus too.

Switzerland have Israel and France at home and Cyprus and Ireland away

[Stuttgart88]

Switzerland did struggle in Cyprus - winning 1-0 with an 89th minute goal. They should have an easier ride at home though.
Wrong, that was definitely in switzerland! :)

[Lionel Ritchie]

) but let's not discount the disgraceful scenes from the Israel game at home or the relative bad luck of a last minute goal away to them.

Agree with the first bit but totally disagree with the last. Lady luck couldn't sit for a week after the way we played in Tel Aviv. We didn't get bad luck luck out there, we got bad managment, an inept performance and nothing more than we deserved.

It was the first time that I really, really questioned if Brian can cut it at this level. He had six months to do his homework on Israel ...six whole months -and even the misfortunes with empty pockets standing around William Hill waiting for them to weigh in at newmarket could've told him that Israel are statistically good for a late goal.

[Donal81]

Agree with the first bit but totally disagree with the last. Lady luck couldn't sit for a week after the way we played in Tel Aviv. We didn't get bad luck luck out there, we got bad managment, an inept performance and nothing more than we deserved.

It was the first time that I really, really questioned if Brian can cut it at this level. He had six months to do his homework on Israel ...six whole months -and even the misfortunes with empty pockets standing around William Hill waiting for them to weigh in at newmarket could've told him that Israel are statistically good for a late goal.

I agree largely with you mate, it was a muck performance. I still remember clearly the pathetic waste of free kicks and corners. We had one I particularly remember from just outside the box. At this stage (70 mins thereabouts), the pub was getting a bit nervous, we fancied a second to wrap it up. Whatever miserable player was taking the frees that day, it went flying miles high and wide over the bar. From a set piece! And it wasn't the first time! At the same time, we were a number of seconds away from what many may have considered a classic old Arsenal-style 1-0 away victory. That's why I said 'relative' bad luck - the last minute goal was unfortunate but the game should have been put away long before that.

[Littlest Hobo]

Getting nervous about it all now. Reading reports, the French are in an optimistic mood ahead of this game. With Zidane back they will be really confident.
I have a deep down gut feeling it will be a nightmare. I can see the Spain 3-1 scenario all over again :( . Hope Mr Henry misses tthe flight over.
Obviously, I hope it will be another Sep '01 Holland job. Beautiful :D

If we fail miserably on Wed and don't qualify, I would still like to see kerr stay at the helm. It might be a wake up call for him to change tactics and drop the cautious approach, which will have been the main reason for his failure to qualify. We should have bagged the paris match, with a bit more adventure. Remember seeing Roy Keane at the end of that game and he was ****ed off with the draw, last one to clap us lot. The others seemed more pleased. That O'Shea miss may come back to haunt us.
Tel Aviv was a joke. Kerr hung on for the 80 odd minutes.

[eirebhoy]

Agree with the first bit but totally disagree with the last. Lady luck couldn't sit for a week after the way we played in Tel Aviv. We didn't get bad luck luck out there, we got bad managment, an inept performance and nothing more than we deserved.
FFS! There were 11 players on that pitch that night. Kerr deserves just as much blame as any player out their but certainly not the sole blame. The players were out their to create chances, Kerr told them this at half time but they just didn't attack. Maybe the video's of Israel breaking superbly put them off, I don't know. Anyway, it was Israel's game plan to break. Us holding possession destroyed that game plan until we lost possession with a shot in the last minute. :rolleyes:

[youngirish]

Kerr's tactics have been very dodgy on numerous occasions so far particularly against the poor teams that we should be expecting to beat. If we don't qualify he needs to go. If he stayed we would just be admitting that we are content to be one of the s**t teams in Europe and that we don't expect to qualify for any major tournaments.

With the players we have we should at least be expecting to finish second in this group. Anything less would be a disaster.

[eirebhoy]

I agree with Dodge, Kerr is the best manager we've ever had. Whether he gets a decent chance to prove this I don't know.

[geysir]

I agree with Dodge, Kerr is the best manager we've ever had. Whether he gets a decent chance to prove this I don't know.
It sounds like a Pats love in :) If it is not yet proven, how can it be said that he is the best we ever had?

[Condex]

I agree with Dodge, Kerr is the best manager we've ever had. Whether he gets a decent chance to prove this I don't know.

What a load of boll*cks, nice man but a when it comes to senior international football he doesn't seem to have a clue!!!

[paul_oshea]

eirebhoy your always biased with things like this. what has he done like??? not with kids btw.

[thejollyrodger]

What a load of boll*cks, nice man but a when it comes to senior international football he doesn't seem to have a clue!!!

More like you havent a clue. Kerr has got so many things right compared to Carthy or Charlton. He knows more about football than you ever will. The 11 players out on the pitch let Kerr down not the other way around.

Kerr is a manager BTW. He ISNT a motivator. His job is about putting the best 11 on the pitch in their best position, about planning & preparing, tatics etc. He looks at all the formations and uses whatever is best for the day.

At the end of the day, its up to the captain or someone on the pitch to continue on where kerr stops. That is making sure everyone concentrates and stays focus on the game plan, stays in shape, treks back, close players down, all that sh1te. Thats a captains proper role. Players know what they have to do, they have to get on with it.

Mick Mac Carthy on the other hand hadnt a clue about formations and where people played their best football but he gave players lots of confidence and motivated them shouting at everyone from the sideline. Thats how we got results but it was all wrong.

Look at Mourniho, he never played and was shunned out of it at Barca. One of the French manager came from underage too. So it doesnt matter where you come from. Management is management. We have a good manager Kerr who is making all the right decisions.

If the 11 players out on the pitch play for Kerr like the way the can for 90 minutes then were going to win our next 3 games and top the group. The fact Kerr is Irish is obviously a serious disadvantage for the man. Look at Carthy and Charlton, they got away with murder because there english.

[OwlsFan]

. Look at Carthy and Charlton, they got away with murder because there english.

What sort of rubbish is this ? For a start it's McCarthy and his father was Irish and he has an Irish passport. He is therefore Irish. Also I should have imagined that they would have got away with less not more if they were both English.

And what exactly did Charlton get away with, leading us to TWO World Cups and a European Championship when we had never been at one before. If you're going to engage in revisionism, at least get your facts right.

Kerr will be judged on whether we qualify - not where he's born or his accent.

[Condex]

Kerr is a manager BTW. He ISNT a motivator. His job is about putting the best 11 on the pitch in their best position, about planning & preparing, tatics etc. He looks at all the formations and uses whatever is best for the day.


:confused: If he can't motivate a team whats the point in him being a manager....

[eirebhoy]

eirebhoy your always biased with things like this. what has he done like??? not with kids btw.
I'm always biased towards people that get less credit than they deserve. :) I like to make the seesaw as close to horizontal as possible. ;) I'll build Israel up and play Switzerland down. I still think what I said is true though. If I was a chairman of a football club, Kerr would be my first choice manager out of all previous Ireland managers. For one, he'd have them playing the most attractive football while not conceding many.

[Slash/ED]

To call a match against a team far, far better than we are judgement day is outrageous. We may or may not get a result, if we don't it's hardly time to call for his head. His judgement will be on finishing ahead of the Swiss and Israel, anything out of France is a bonus.

[Condex]

To call a match against a team far, far better than we are judgement day is outrageous. We may or may not get a result, if we don't it's hardly time to call for his head. His judgement will be on finishing ahead of the Swiss and Israel, anything out of France is a bonus.

What is outrageous is that we only got two points against Israel, and the manger should take his fair share of the blame for that.

[eirebhoy]

What is outrageous is that we only got two points against Israel, and the manger should take his fair share of the blame for that.
Yes, fair share, not all of it which he is getting by a lot of people.

[Slash/ED]

What is outrageous is that we only got two points against Israel, and the manger should take his fair share of the blame for that.

I don't disagree with that at all.

[thejollyrodger]

:confused: If he can't motivate a team whats the point in him being a manager....

When you have 11 EPL players who are good and are full time professional you shouldnt have to motivate them. They should be already up for it.

Would you enter the Reál Madrid team dressing room at half time trying to motivate the team ? No.

[tetsujin1979]

When you have 11 EPL players who are good and are full time professional you shouldnt have to motivate them. They should be already up for it.

Would you enter the Reál Madrid team dressing room at half time trying to motivate the team ? No.
From what I hear the players tell the coach what to do at times in that dressing room. Or at least they did under Quieroz (sp?). Beckham said on record that a lot of training is "who can do the best tricks"

[Stuttgart88]

Just reading bloody Dion Fanning in The Indo (early London edition by the looks of things). He still contends Kerr was too cautious in Paris. I just don't agree at all. Fanning then went on to select 12 players in his Irish "probable" team. 4-5-2. We'd have a good chance with that!

Amy Lawrence in the Observer correctly lauds the quality & tempo of our passing in Paris. This is one area where I feel Kerr has been trying - with mixed results - to make his own mark on the team.

[geysir]

Just reading bloody Dion Fanning in The Indo...Fanning then went on to select 12 players in his Irish "probable" team. 4-5-2. We'd have a good chance with that!
Reluctantly, very reluctantly i have to report that Fanning selected 11, in Fanning's probable team he selected S. Reid OR Duff.

[Stuttgart88]

Not in the version I have:) It was an early version though - they didn't even have the results of the Swiss or French games.

[geysir]

Not in the version I have:) It was an early version though - they didn't even have the results of the Swiss or French games.
Schite, you managed to slip out of that one just when your credibility and everything you have ever stood for, was on the line.

[thejollyrodger]

Question 1 :

Do you think this current Irish side are a very ordinary side at best ?

Question 2 :

Seeing that both Ireland and France have had a poor WCQ campaign do you think that the game on wednesday will be a bland display ?

**on the online version of the irish times its S Reid OR Duff. Must be just a typo in the early version but something typical of the Irish media. Another example being Cork losing to Steau last season etc

[Slash/ED]

Reluctantly, very reluctantly i have to report that Fanning selected 11, in Fanning's probable team he selected S. Reid OR Duff.

Picking 12 players is far less outrageous than suggesting that there is even the smallest possiblity we pick any player we have over Duff.

[Qwerty]

Picking 12 players is far less outrageous than suggesting that there is even the smallest possiblity we pick any player we have over Duff.

Duff is injured, the article was about the importance of Duff playing. S Reid if Duff injured.

[Qwerty]

You wouldn't judge a player on one game so it's unfair to say that Kerr's reputation rests on the result against the French. When the campaign is over then we can judge him. Having said that his performance in the last campaign was poor but people have argued extenuating circumstances - he came in after 2 opening defeats, the squad was not his ( I this simply means that Roy was not available ).

If we fail to qualify every mistake or perceived mistake Kerr made will be analyzed to death, if we qualify it will all be forgotten or go uncommented upon so you could argue it doesn't make sense to fuss about it too much and just get behind the team this week.

If we do not qualify Kerr is looking for a new job, if we qualify then he will be crowned as Ireland's best manager, please prepare to move over and make room Saint Jack.

[geysir]

I rate Kerr good enough so far. I am speculating that it is to our advantage in this group that he experienced the lows of the last campaign. I don´t agree with that the French game is a judgment day. The minimum time that he deserves before his judgment day comes, is until the last game of the group BUT there should still something to play for then.
At this stage a minimum standard of expectation is 6 points out of 9.

[thejollyrodger]

you mean 7 points. anything less is a diaster and we will be going nowhere

[Colbert Report]

wrong. five out of nine is reasonable. keep in mind although we are undefeated, kerr f-cked up big time by not pressing israel in both games we played against them

[TonyD]

Calls for Brian Kerrs head are harsh in the extreme in my opinion. He has lost one competitive game for crissakes. Mick McCarthy got 3 attempts to qualify for a major finals. How come people want Kerr to get the boot if we don't beat what are after all one of the best teams in Europe ? OK, we had 2 blips against Israel, but the fact is most managers leading 1-0 away from home against any sort of reasonable team would be tempted to be cautious in the latter stages of the game. Also, criticising his substitutions in the home game is really a case of being wise after the event. And we still had numerous chances to win that game in the 2nd half, only a combination of bad luck and bad finishing prevented us doing so. Hardly the managers fault.

Mind you if we don't qualify and he does get the sack there could be a silver lining, I'd have him back at Inchicore in a heartbeat, especially at the moment.

[geysir]

There appears to be a widespread assumption that both the Swiss and the Israelis will win on wednesday. It would not be an earth shaker if the Cypriots managed a home draw.
The Faroes are desperate to get some reward for their toil.

[dfx-]

Calls for Brian Kerrs head are harsh in the extreme in my opinion. He has lost one competitive game for crissakes. Mick McCarthy got 3 attempts to qualify for a major finals. How come people want Kerr to get the boot if we don't beat what are after all one of the best teams in Europe ? OK, we had 2 blips against Israel, but the fact is most managers leading 1-0 away from home against any sort of reasonable team would be tempted to be cautious in the latter stages of the game.

I will say it here and now. Regardless of whether we qualify or not, I have no longer any confidence in Kerr's management of the Irish team. I do not trust him to approach easch game in the right manner after the shambles that occurred away at Israel. The home game was more unfortunate, but away, Israel were for the taking and he decided not to - I could see that from early in the 2nd half - it wasn't just a late on decision to hold on. I told the people wacthing it with me that eventually we'll be caught out if not this match with this mentality. As soon as someone said "well as long it works for this match, we'll be alright", Israel scored.

There were no excuses for that result. It happened in Switzerland as well when they were also there for the taking but we didn't want to - sure a draw would do.

That same attitude cost Ireland in Macedonia in 1999 with 11 seconds left. We scored early and hung on. The only difference is Macedonia should've hammered us that night only for Alan Kelly. We would've topped the group and we didn't qualify. Who knows would we have topped the group if we won in Israel? Most likely, imo.

6 years on and it's still there. It will stay there throughout Kerr's reign and we will continuously fail at the highest level. :mad:

No result against France or Switzerland or even qualification will paper over the cracks for me. :rolleyes: :mad:

[thejollyrodger]

the above post by D f x is the biggest pile of sh1te i have ever read in my life. cop on son you havent a clue.

I reckon it will be a draw on wednesday. France and ireland going through. i dont know which one to top the group though

[eirebhoy]

I will say it here and now. Regardless of whether we qualify or not, I have no longer any confidence in Kerr's management of the Irish team. I do not trust him to approach easch game in the right manner after the shambles that occurred away at Israel. The home game was more unfortunate, but away, Israel were for the taking and he decided not to - I could see that from early in the 2nd half - it wasn't just a late on decision to hold on. I told the people wacthing it with me that eventually we'll be caught out if not this match with this mentality. As soon as someone said "well as long it works for this match, we'll be alright", Israel scored.

There were no excuses for that result. It happened in Switzerland as well when they were also there for the taking but we didn't want to - sure a draw would do.

That same attitude cost Ireland in Macedonia in 1999 with 11 seconds left. We scored early and hung on. The only difference is Macedonia should've hammered us that night only for Alan Kelly. We would've topped the group and we didn't qualify. Who knows would we have topped the group if we won in Israel? Most likely, imo.

6 years on and it's still there. It will stay there throughout Kerr's reign and we will continuously fail at the highest level. :mad:

No result against France or Switzerland or even qualification will paper over the cracks for me. :rolleyes: :mad:
So Kerr is to blame because we have a history of not pushing on for 90 minutes? Weird. I think I'll add these quotes to my sig:

Roy: “In saying that, we should still have killed the game off. We could have done more in the second half in terms of possession and testing their goalkeeper."

Kerr: “We didn’t create a whole lot, and could have been more incisive going forward"

Kav: "it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep"

[dfx-]

"Kerr: “We didn’t create a whole lot, and could have been more incisive going forward"

Kav: "it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep""

Kerr sat over the whole escapade and let them keep the ball and not go forward much. The fact is they did drop back - conscious effort or not. That they didn't mean to is not a valid reason.

Kerr may not to be wholly to blame, but he is only another contributor to that history. We are not making progress - we are just the same side with the same history of not pushing on..

How many competitive away games against major opposition have we won in 10 years? Has the reign of Kerr seen any noticeable improvement in that total?

With the acid tests...he has failed in leading the team; to stop them sitting back. To say we didn't create a whole lot with our team and the amount of possession we had is criminal in international management. If there was a manager intent on running at the Israelis, I doubt whether it would've finished 1-1 and I doubt whether the players would have just kept the ball.

And yet until the weekend we were top of the group with such inadequecies in the team. I can only dream of where we could be if we had a manager with guts to go after every match where we are superior; to be able gauge in the match whether to change the gameplan and to implement it amongst his players, rather than letting his players make unconscuious decisions to drop back. It may have been unconscious to them, but Kerr should've seen it and done something to amend it...........

..he didn't. Not Kavanagh, not Keane, but Kerr did nothing to change because afterall, weren't we 1-0 up and that'd do us.

[eirebhoy]

I'll just ask you one question (which was pointed out on this site a couple of weeks ago. What was it that led us to conceding the goal in Tel Aviv?

[dfx-]

I cannot remember as at the end of the game I was at the end of my tether in terms of watching the game, but if I was to guess correctly it was from an - wait for it - attack :eek: or more closely an attempt at one... :rolleyes:

[eirebhoy]

Morrison shot, Awat saved, possession lost, Israel score. IMO, Roy Keane played more of a part in the conservative play that Kerr. Kerr did say he told the players to create more at half time.