Is it just me

[NeilMcD]

Part of the fun of supporting your team is a sense of Optimism. Going to the in great hopes that you team will do well. This is added to if there is a sense of genuine optimism there too. A lot of teh posters on this site, with their negative views, and pessimistic attitude seem to be taking the fun out of supporting your nation. There is no joy in it because even if you are right on Thursday nobody will come along and thank you. Life is about living, and having fun and I think football is a great way to express joy. But the joy should come before and during and after the game if the result goes right.

[Stuttgart88]

No Neil, it's not just you.

[OwlsFan]

As I posted elsewhere, pessimism is of the intellect, optimism is of the will. Many fans hope for the best and fear the worst - I certainly do. Optimism is an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome. If you follow a top team like Manchester United or France, then you go into every game expecting to win. If you have followed Ireland for many many years or a lesser team, you prepare yourself for the let down. You go to the game supporting the team 100%, fervently hoping that the team will win but you know that in football there is a good chance you will end up in the dumps.

The person who thinks we might lose is not any less of a supporter than the one who says "of course we'll win" nor will they shout any less in support of the team. If everyone here posted we'll win, it won't make the chances of us beating the French any greater.

The important thing is that everyone going to Lansdowne produces the same or even a better atmosphere than the Holland game a few years ago. If things go our way, there is no doubt we can do it but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't. That's football and Ireland in particular.

[NeilMcD]

So are they pessmistic just cause its there own team or if they supporter france would they be on www.foot.fr saying the following about France

They have 2 games away from Home against teams they have failed to beat at home. They have 3 players coming back into a team without any sort of bedding in process. That with these same players they failed at World Cup 2002 and Euro 2004 with 2 different managers and now they have another manager they have not played under before until last month. That Ireland have lost very few competitive games at home in recent years, Switzerland and Austria, Both coming at the end of reigns of managers.

[Cowboy]

If you have followed Ireland for many many years or a lesser team, you prepare yourself for the let down.

I've never gone to an Ireland game prepared to be let down. You should exchange hope for belief. If our players took to the field hoping for a win rather than believing they can win how do you think this would affect their performance? Too ofetn I've heard guys moaning that we are going to get a hiding on the few occasions that that we have gone a goal down instead of getting behind our team. Of course there are times when things go against us but thats football, going into a game with fear and trepidation surely can do no good for our major role of getting behind our boys and roaring them on to a win.

[Cowboy]

Part of the fun of supporting your team is a sense of Optimism. Going to the in great hopes that you team will do well. This is added to if there is a sense of genuine optimism there too. A lot of teh posters on this site, with their negative views, and pessimistic attitude seem to be taking the fun out of supporting your nation. There is no joy in it because even if you are right on Thursday nobody will come along and thank you. Life is about living, and having fun and I think football is a great way to express joy. But the joy should come before and during and after the game if the result goes right.

Excellent post brother

[gustavo]

lads just cos you are worried that your team isnt going to win doesnt mean you are disowning them or anything im not to optimistic about the game next week just going on form and circumstances however doesnt mean i wont be cheering them on as much as the man who think we are going to hammer them, some people are just naturally pessimistic when it comes to their teams chances .people who have seen my predictions on the sligo rovers forum for all our upcoming games will know i am one of them:)

[NeilMcD]

I agree somewhere at the back of my mind I fear taht the doom and gloom merchants will reacte to us going behind in a less than positive manner. I could be wrong, and I dont think all of them will react like this but surely if you have been posting for weeks that we are going to lose and then sudenly were are losing there must be some sort of inkling to behave as if they had forseen this coming.

[sligoman]

people who have seen my predictions on the sligo rovers forum for all our upcoming games will know i am one of them:)Yes, I'll back him up on that ;).

[eirebhoy]

I certainly prefer the pessimism heading into the France game than the over-optimism before the Israel home game.

[paul_oshea]

i am a realist not a pessimist, to be a realist, you cant be optimistic just for the sake of it.

[NeilMcD]

I agree that there was over optimism going into that game. Thinks like 3 or 4 nil etc. I was optimistic that we could win that game and we should have one that game. However you have to respect that the other team can play also. I think that Israel are not respected at all depite there standing in the group. Just look at teh prediction for the Swiss Israel game. People are saying 3 or 4 nil to Switzerland. I would be suprised if there is more than one goal between the teams in that game and I would fancy a draw. In fact I think we could be in for 2 draws in the major games over then next week but I am hopeful that we can nick it at home.

[paul_oshea]

As I posted elsewhere, pessimism is of the intellect, optimism is of the will. Many fans hope for the best and fear the worst - I certainly do. Optimism is an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome. If you follow a top team like Manchester United or France, then you go into every game expecting to win. If you have followed Ireland for many many years or a lesser team, you prepare yourself for the let down. You go to the game supporting the team 100%, fervently hoping that the team will win but you know that in football there is a good chance you will end up in the dumps.


excellent post brother. both factual and realistic.

[NeilMcD]

i am a realist not a pessimist, to be a realist, you cant be optimistic just for the sake of it.


Yes but if one is a realist woudl they not see that Ireland do not get beaten at home very often and that we have a great record at LR. So the most likely result is a draw or maybe Ireland nicking it

[Karlos]

As I posted elsewhere, pessimism is of the intellect, optimism is of the will. Many fans hope for the best and fear the worst - I certainly do. Optimism is an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome. If you follow a top team like Manchester United or France, then you go into every game expecting to win. If you have followed Ireland for many many years or a lesser team, you prepare yourself for the let down. You go to the game supporting the team 100%, fervently hoping that the team will win but you know that in football there is a good chance you will end up in the dumps.

The person who thinks we might lose is not any less of a supporter than the one who says "of course we'll win" nor will they shout any less in support of the team. If everyone here posted we'll win, it won't make the chances of us beating the French any greater.

The important thing is that everyone going to Lansdowne produces the same or even a better atmosphere than the Holland game a few years ago. If things go our way, there is no doubt we can do it but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't. That's football and Ireland in particular.

Excellent post mate. I always go to the game with hope in my heart but the football side of the brain always tries to look at things objectively and be a realist. Part of my joy in Football emanates from my heart beating my head on the odd occassion. Those days are particulary special. :)

[paul_oshea]

Yes but if one is a realist woudl they not see that Ireland do not get beaten at home very often and that we have a great record at LR. So the most likely result is a draw or maybe Ireland nicking it

I never said what ones prediction was, I was merely stating that owlsfan point was correct. I am no less of a fan than you because i remain cautios/slightly pessimistic, I dont see us winning this game, but I can assure you whereever I am watching it, I will be getting behind them as much if not more than you if we do go down 1 - 0. optimism/over optimism comes without actually seeing through the fog. Hope is something completely different which is what i personally have in adundance.

I hope we win, but I think a draw is more likely and depending on how france start, could see us losing as we are 2 down before we have even settled into the game.

[paul_oshea]

Part of my joy in Football emanates from my heart beating my head on the odd occassion. Those days are particulary special


They are extremely special, take israel for example when we went 2 - 0 up it was like ah sure i knew we were going to win, however take that against holland or france now, and the emotions are incomprehendable.

[NeilMcD]

Speak for yourself, When we went 2 nil up againts israel and playing so well I could not believe it I thought it was going to be a struggle all day. The 2nd half was the way I saw most of that match going.

[NeilMcD]

I never said what ones prediction was, I was merely stating that owlsfan point was correct. I am no less of a fan than you because i remain cautios/slightly pessimistic, I dont see us winning this game, but I can assure you whereever I am watching it, I will be getting behind them as much if not more than you if we do go down 1 - 0. optimism/over optimism comes without actually seeing through the fog. Hope is something completely different which is what i personally have in adundance.

I hope we win, but I think a draw is more likely and depending on how france start, could see us losing as we are 2 down before we have even settled into the game.


I have never said any one was less of a fan or more of a fan, as I think thats a load of rubbish as its a very subjective point and cant be proved by facts

[Cowboy]

Realisticly and objectively I believe we will beat France on Wednesday




Excellent post mate. I always go to the game with hope in my heart but the football side of the brain always tries to look at things objectively and be a realist. Part of my joy in Football emanates from my heart beating my head on the odd occassion. Those days are particulary special. :)

[Karlos]

Realisticly and objectively I believe we will beat France on Wednesday

Fair play mate! :) I'm not saying thare's anything wrong with feeling like that. That's not how I feel personally but I am hopeful we can win the game.

The beauty of it all is that none of us know for certain what the result will be, i think we are all in agreement on what we want it to be however. :)

[Cowboy]

The beauty of it all is that none of us know for certain what the result will be, i think we are all in agreement on what we want it to be however. :)

I'm sure we can all agree on that

[wallis]

Its an interesting discussion of optimism and realism. I would have thought (as other posters did) that realistically we should be looking at a draw. Our results , home record , the way the group has gone so far etc etc all points to this being a tight game and both sides taking a point (which does neither any harm).

I personally believe we will win it. Optimism and bias aside for a moment , I dont have enough facts or information to tell me that France will beat us , but I certainly have enough to make me see an Irish victory.

You can trudge out the three times we have led but failed to win but you must balance that up with the times the reverse has happened. Twice in the World Cup we were behind and got the equaliser and we have also done it in other qualifiers and friendlies.

We have led and not gone on to win - yes , but in my mind I think to myself, hang on - we have never been behind during the whole campaign. That includes 3 away matches where the pressure is on our opponents to win those games - not on us. They are the ones that 'failed' to take the points. Its a massive game for irish football but when I weigh up the pros and cons I still put us in front.

For the record, I went to Basle thinking we would get beat (injuries and our form at the time put me in that frame of mind). I then went to Paris convinced we wouldnt lose , there was just something about the whole atmosphere in Paris where I just knew we couldnt be beat. Likewise this time round there is a similar buzz about the game. Im glad ZZ and co are back because if we win it might just silence the doubters for while and show that we are capable of beating any side.

[Donal81]

Lads, football is barely organised chaos and predicting results is about as pointless as fighting the tide. I predicted a comfortable win against the Israelis at home having seen nothing whatsoever in the away game that should have troubled us. At 2-0 up, we were destroying them. Then, Keano gets injured and gets replaced by Kavanagh. They get a dodgy free-kick and a freak header (who scores headers from outside the box, for God's sake?) and a dodgy penalty and it's 2-2. It's too painful to describe any more. Essentially, I think we're all coming down to the same point here, which is that when the Frogs come to town next week, optimistic or pessimistic, we make sure that the atmosphere hits them when they walk out like a bucket of ice over an Israeli goalkeeper. They're a good team and posess a few players that can cut a game right open, which we don't have in abundance. We're tough to beat at home and definitely have it in us to produce the first great performance of this campaign. So, I reckon we're fairly even.

[NeilMcD]

Lads if Scotland can be confident about their game against Italy I think we should be the same.


1 September 2005
YOU CAN BE LEGENDS LIKE GREIG, HOLTON AND DALGLISH
Our boys aim to keep Germany dream alive and give country reason to start the parties
Ally McCoist
WHEN I close my eyes I can see the fans jumping up and down, Walter Smith punching the air with delight and Tam Burns and I hugging in a manner which is more intimate than necessary. And the players, dripping with sweat,arms raisedin triumph as they walk off the famous Hampden pitch.

I can picture pubs all over the country packed to the rafters right up until closing time with Scotland fans drinking to their team. Then the parties finish at sometime called late o'clock.

The capital of Italy is called the Eternal City. Well, meet the Eternal Optimist.

As a Scotland coach, I wouldn't be fit for my job if I were to tell you that I didn't fancy our chances of getting a result. However, hand on my heart, I really believe this team are on the verge of doing something special.

History This match against Italy could go down in Scottish football history as one of the greatest of all time.

I wasn't there when John Greig scored that incredible goal in the last few minutes to beat Italy in 1965. But I could tell you anything you needed to know about that game.


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I was at school when big Jim Holton scored as we beat Czechoslovakia in 1977 to get to the World Cup, yet it's a match engraved in my memory.


As is the night Kenny Dalglish equalled Denis Law's record as we beat Spain 3-1 in 1984 when my old pal Mo Johnston scored two.Any fan who was there that night can talk as if it happened yesterday.


And more recently the Tartan Army reported for duty as they always do when we took on the class of Holland. Few expected us to do anything but James McFadden scored and how we partied.


This is one of those games, one of those opportunities which don't come along very often. I want the fans to be able to talk about this match as they do those legendary occasions.


When I speak to the players over the next couple of days there will be one over-riding message that I'll whisper in their ears.


I will say: "On Saturday night you could be Scottish legends."


Just like Greigy, Kenny and the man who was six foot two and had eyes of blue.


They would talk about today's players in the same glowing terms for years. They would be heroes of the nation.


Now there is something to think about.


It was that footballing philosopher Danny Blanchflower who said the game was all about glory. The great man was right there.


Beating Italy would give us three precious points, of course, but it would be the glory which would last forever.


The players who will take to the field a little before 5.30pm on Saturday have the opportunity to change their careers, their life even, forever.


If they want to play at the top, star in the Champions League, have big clubs chasing their signature and let's not forget be part of the World Cup finals next summer then this is their day to do all that.


These sort of games don't come along that often. The kind when looking back in 20 years you would never be tired of re-telling the story of the day you beat the mighty Italians.


Can you tell I'm just a bit excited? What I would give to be sitting furtherupthebackofthecoachaswe make our way to training. I would loved to have been able to play in a match like this one.


A full Hampden Park, a World Cup qualifier against Italy, the chance to kick-start the mother and father of all parties. It's what we do this for. It simply doesn't get any better.


I actually think the boys can sense I should be in the team. Whenever there is an uneven team at training they beg me to play.


Or rather they beg that I, rather than Tam, join in. The man is in reverse at the moment.


But it will be far from easy. Italy are top of the group for a reason and if they do get to Germany,as we expect, they would be considered one of the sides with a genuine chance to win the World Cup.


Fabio Cannavaro, Alessandro Nesta, Andrea Pirlo, Alessandro del Piero, Christian Vieri. Big names who play for big clubs. No matter how you try to dress that up, it's a bloody big task for our boys. But a far from impossible one. We have done our homework and have watched the Italians on video.


For an hour against Ireland a few weeks ago they were frightening.


Yet, Slovenia beat them 1-0 and Belarus lost narrowly 4-3 in Italy.


We did well in the second half in Milan and were great for 45 minutes in Austria. There is a lot to be positive about.


I hope the players are looking forward to it. I hope they are calm, although with a little bit of butterflies in the stomach. I loved that. I enjoyed the nerves you got before a match.


I have said it before but it's worth repeating that it's been a pleasure to coach these guys.


They are attentive and responsive to everything you ask.


They are keen and desperate to do well for their country. I love that.


This is their biggest test yet because we are up against one of the grandest names in international football.


Fortunate Italy last came to Scotland in 1992 when a team I played in were fortunate to get a 0-0 draw at Ibrox.


And that was against an Italian side which contained Franco Baresi, Paolo Maldini and Roberto Baggio. They were a lot better that this team.


And then some years down the line when there are even more grey hairs on this head of mine, I can say I was part of the Scotland team that day in 2005 against Italy.


# Firhill may not seem like the ideal place for Champions League training but I beg to differ.


My television colleague Andy Townsend and I were at the home of Partick Thistle the other night to take part in a dry run for an idea which could appear on ITV's Champions League show.


I would call it warm-up but is it ever warm-up in Maryhill?


Still, Andy was good enough to travel up to Glasgow because obviously I'm a bit busy this week to go down south.


So an idea which was tried out at Firhill may well be repeated in the Nou Camp or San Siro.


Now there is a television first

[eirebhoy]

I agree that there was over optimism going into that game. Thinks like 3 or 4 nil etc. I was optimistic that we could win that game and we should have one that game. However you have to respect that the other team can play also. I think that Israel are not respected at all depite there standing in the group. Just look at teh prediction for the Swiss Israel game. People are saying 3 or 4 nil to Switzerland.
Irish people are saying that because the vast majority of Irish only seen Israel in their 2 games against us. That was their 2 worst performances in the group. I can guarantee you that no Swiss fan is predicting a 3 or 4 nil win because they know how good Israel can be.

[Donal81]

Irish people are saying that because the vast majority of Irish only seen Israel in their 2 games against us. That was their 2 worst performances in the group. I can guarantee you that no Swiss fan is predicting a 3 or 4 nil win because they know how good Israel can be.

I always thought Israel were talked up a lot more than they should have been. That team has nothing going for them other than cynicism and handy refereeing decisions. Fair play to them, they don't give up, but I think they're a miserable, grotty little team. I didn't see their game against Switzerland or the game in Paris, which may give me a different view, but on the basis of their games against us and their game against France in Israel, they're a cynical crowd. The Swiss can open up a game a lot better than we can so I reckon they'll beat them. Who knows, the Swiss will probably get their best defender sent off after five minutes because of an Israeli dive, the Israelis will score the penalty and defend for the 85 minutes. Sorry, I'm still very bitter.

[zinedineontour]

Just hope that if we go a goal down on wednesday that lansdowne doesnt turn silent and we starting hearing the groans ... the support on wed has to be like never seen before at lansdowne to help the lads out ....just feel the evening games after work seem to lack the atmosphere of the sat games due to lack of drinking in most cases ....