Republic of Ireland v New Zealand - Tuesday, 21st November 2023 - Friendly

[joey B]

It was an awful night and reflected Kenny’s reign,a lot of talk and never backed up on the field,I’d happily not see Doherty or Duffy again but given our options we probably will,good luck to whoever takes over but this has been a really poor spell for us at senior International level….

[Exgrad]

Fitting end really. Feel for Kenny but it's for the best to all move on now.

Some of our players like Cullen, Molumby and Omobamidele seem to be going backwards at the moment. But I guess not much point reading into this game, and lots of time for players to kick on before the next competitive fixture.

You can add Knight and Idah to that list as well. Average championship players at moment. Cullen the only one who has pushed on a bit.

[ontheotherhand]

End of an error.

Wanted him to do well but he just got worse and worse. Same as he was with Rovers.

Hope he finds something though. He comes across as a decent skin.

[SkStu]

If you don’t feel even a little bad for him after that interview, you have no heart. Poor fella. Someone must have been chopping onions near him.

[weldoninhio]

His gravy train has reached the end of the line. No sympathy whatsoever.

[zero]

impossible not to feel for him but at the end of the day the results and performances were not up to scratch with no sign of impending improvement.

[geysir]

Staunton is the only one I think can compare. Some good results but had a much stronger team to work with

Time to move on for sure though. Think Johnstone the only one to come out of that with any credit. Maybe the two keepers, which is a poor reflection on a home game with New Zealand...

Imo that's a well played out myth. Was there that much difference between Kerr and Staunton? Was the squad stronger under Kerr or Stan? Despite some poor games Stan's team competed well in both games v Czech Rep where there could well have been a different result, eg the Hunt red card sending off was farcical in the away game.
From day one, once the Czech Rep beat Slovakia away 3 nil Ireland were up against it. And no play-off possibility for coming in third as benefited O'Neill.

[Calcio Jack]

If you don’t feel even a little bad for him after that interview, you have no heart. Poor fella. Someone must have been chopping onions near him.

On a human level yes you’d feel sorry for him ( albeit he’s banked approx €1.8m in salary ; which will at least secure his and his family’s future) but on a professional level deserves nothing but to be dismissed and recognised as a complete failure , so out the door with him and time to move on

[seanfhear]

On a human level yes you’d feel sorry for him ( albeit he’s banked approx €1.8m in salary ; which will at least secure his and his family’s future) but on a professional level deserves nothing but to be dismissed and recognised as a complete failure , so out the door with him and time to move onA lot of money for a man of Stephen Kenny's ability.

[dynamo kerry]

Well that started well, got a bit odd, then it was bad.

I was at McClean's debut and I still haven't heard a roar like when he came on as a sub for any debut. I wish we had better but I don't want to know what the last 10 years would have looked like without him


Not so Kenny. Time to go. That said, I'm somewhat jaded with gavin cumiskey sticking the knife into irish managers.

Nice to see Moran make his debut but I'd have preferred him to be with the u21s this week.

Knight, johnston, idah, all fun to watch.
Sykes looks lightweight tonight.
Duffy slows us down too much.
At least we have decent goalies.


Generally they looked afraid to take risks. No one with a through ball. When the wings didn't work we were stuck.

Ho hum

[dynamo kerry]

On the Staunton vs kerr thing.. I always felt the team was moments from disaster while under kerr we were in danger of being very very good.

I was at all those home games. Apart from the second half against Israel the kerr period was fun. I was chewing my knuckles for.most of the Staunton era.

[zero]

There's no movement at all from the players in the last several games. Nobody making runs. All very static and slow.

NZ copped onto this and probably should have won the game.

[pineapple stu]

Imo that's a well played out myth. Was there that much difference between Kerr and Staunton?.
Kerr (2006) had us one point off second. His own fault in many ways - Israel at home and away the obvious ones.

Stan (2008) had us ten points off second. 5-2 v Cyprus, 1-1 v Cyprus (a late equaliser ending lifting us off sixth in the group I think) and that game in San Marino. Not to mention being stuffed 4-0 by the Dutch at home. That all in the space of 18 months.

Then in 2010 Trap has us four points clear in second, and a cheat away from a penalty shootout against France.

Kenny has had a longer run of bad results, but he's also got an awful squad. I think the two balance out to an extent that both he and Stan are in the "worst manager" discussion

[ltfc_2004]

I couldn’t give my ticket away in an office of 500 ppl not a single person wanted one.

I couldn’t make it but say at home thankful I wasn’t there ! We probably should have lost.

We can’t go any lower and I wonder how many skip season ticket renewal on Friday.

[sbgawa]

If you don’t feel even a little bad for him after that interview, you have no heart. Poor fella. Someone must have been chopping onions near him.

Thought he was his usual stuttering rambling self to be honest. Still deluded as to what he has "achieved"

[ifk101]

Once Johnston ran out of steam after 20 mins or so, our gameplan was there for all to see – we had none. Rudderless, no purpose, without direction – dismal in the extreme. No doubt there is attention to detail and preparation behind the scenes, John O’Shea and Keith Andrews always appear in deep concentration looking at screens on the bench, but the on-field performances are that of a team not being (effectively) coached. It really is night and day from when Barry/ Eustace were part of the coaching staff – you could see what we wanted to do. Last night was a sad cumulation of three years effort. We had nothing.

[Stuttgart88]

Agree totally with ifk. All I could see of any kind of "Kennyball" philosophy was a reluctance to hoofing it. Everything else was ponderous and lacking any invention. Give it to Johnston was about the most daring tactic we had. We created no overloads, there were huge gaps between our lines and there were huge gaps between the players. Worse still, I saw players actively avoiding finding positions to receive a pass in. If that's harsh, the alternative explanation is as bad - they didn't have the instinct to find space.

I nearly took a pic of the TV screen in the second half because there was one occasion when we had the ball facing forward on the half way line and there wasn't even another Irish player in the picture!

Once NZ copped on that we were rubbish they took control and did so by getting numbers forward and having several players available to receive the ball, all in relatively close proximity to each other. They'd isolate our players. They moved the ball from player to player quickly. They moved forward as a unit. We only ever had mini-units. Two players near each other on each touchline, maybe another infield. This was NZ FFS.

Do we not work on how to create overloads and isolate their players?

I watched a lot of Celtic under Postecoglou. It was amazing how often they were able to play balls inside the CBs and full backs to set up a square ball. It was obvious that this was coached. What do we work on to create openings?

Our ability to lose control of games from a position of relative comfort and bright starts is staggering.

I texted some mates last night that even as kids in suburban Rathfarnham, hardly a hotbed of street footballers, when we played 4 x 4 on the road we'd try to find angles and spaces. We weren't much good and we weren't coached but we still had the wits to play inventively.

And the obligatory goal conceded from 20-22 yards. Jesus wept.

[weldoninhio]

Thought he was his usual stuttering rambling self to be honest. Still deluded as to what he has "achieved"

What was he talking about? He said at one stage that the team is set up excellently for the next "Nations League B campaign without the likes of France of Germany in our group". We've never had a top tier nation in our NL groups. Did he even know what competition he was managing in, game to game?? Thank god he's gone.

[Jd2793]

delaney and dunne talking their usual nonsense on TV last night. hopefully with Kenny gone we wont be subjected to another few years of nonsense talking points from those 2. Less said about the game the better. Just happy we dont have to watch Ireland for a few months.

[Stuttgart88]

What were D and D saying?

[Jd2793]

What were D and D saying?

more or less saying kenny should have kept onto more older players. Delaney said he should have kept onto randolph , shane long and hendrick (LOL). Long was pushed out by mccarthy , brought back by kenny over 2 seasons where he didnt see over 600 league mins on the pitch for his clubs. Kenny should be criticised for plenty but this idea that we were leaving very good older players out is laughable. how many chances did he give to james mccarthy to come back in?

[tetsujin1979]

Lot of clips from Delaney and Dunne on their Twitter
https://twitter.com/VMSportIE
You'll need to scroll down a little
1727049523342569774

[pineapple stu]

more or less saying kenny should have kept onto more older players. Delaney said he should have kept onto randolph , shane long and hendrick (LOL). Long was pushed out by mccarthy , brought back by kenny over 2 seasons where he didnt see over 600 league mins on the pitch for his clubs. Kenny should be criticised for plenty but this idea that we were leaving very good older players out is laughable. how many chances did he give to james mccarthy to come back in?

There's definitely a point in there, although I don't think it reflects on Kenny. We've arguably gone from having too old a team to too young a team, and probably need a couple more experienced heads in the squad. 14 of the 23 in this squad were 25 and younger; Doherty, Duffy and McClean were the only over 30s.

But that's because we don't really have anyone in the older category now. Hendrick was last called up in September so you can hardly say he's been overlooked; I think he's not doing all that great for Wednesday at the moment (OwlsFan might know more!) Randolph made his own bed; he's played more games for Ireland than for his club since Kenny took over. Hourihane was quietly dropped once he dropped down to the third tier and I think that was fair.

I think the next campaign is going to be a struggle again - partly because too many of the squad aren't progressing at club level as we'd want - but maybe by the next Euros we might have fixed the age balance? But Kenny didn't have a magic wand to fix that.

[Jd2793]

There's definitely a point in there, although I don't think it reflects on Kenny. We've arguably gone from having too old a team to too young a team, and probably need a couple more experienced heads in the squad. 14 of the 23 in this squad were 25 and younger; Doherty, Duffy and McClean were the only over 30s.

But that's because we don't really have anyone in the older category now. Hendrick was last called up in September so you can hardly say he's been overlooked; I think he's not doing all that great for Wednesday at the moment (OwlsFan might know more!) Randolph made his own bed; he's played more games for Ireland than for his club since Kenny took over. Hourihane was quietly dropped once he dropped down to the third tier and I think that was fair.

I think the next campaign is going to be a struggle again - partly because too many of the squad aren't progressing at club level as we'd want - but maybe by the next Euros we might have fixed the age balance? But Kenny didn't have a magic wand to fix that.

I just took issue with the tone the two of them came across with. Kennys hand was forced in most cases to go with the younger lads. As has been pointed on by plenty, we pretty much lost a generation of footballers born from 92-96 ish or so (?). I think he kept as much experience in the squad as he could tbh. Duffy, Doherty, Coleman,McClean,Hourihane, Hendrick, Stevens (when fit) ... lads like mccarthy and arter floating in and out at the start. McGoldrick retired aswell. Coming out to bat for shane long being in the squad when he was playing 500 mins a season was strange to say the least from Delaney. But its probably what I should expect.

[Jolly Red Giant]

The game last night summed up the entire Kenny era - started out with a bit of a flourish - then once the opposition figure things out Kenny can't adapt, change, modify or do anything except stand on the sideline looking forlorn and watching the team fail again (this time against a team that a guy playing for Sligo Rovers - no slight on Sligo Rovers - a goalkeeper who is the reserve at Burton Albion etc). Throughout the entire second half Darren Bazaley was sitting back, smiling and chatting with the rest of the coaching staff, knowing he had the measure of Kenny and that at worst his team were going to draw the game. Like any competent international manager, his team was better than the sum of its parts - Kenny has sucessfully managed to do the exact opposite.

Time to get rid of - and to the FAI please hire someone who has at least proven they are competent.

[tetsujin1979]

Ferguson's introduction was the fiftieth appearance by a teenage player in the last 10 years, with Kenny awarding 42 of those caps
1727322255192117405

[seanfhear]

Jobs for the boys !

[JR89]

Ferguson's introduction was the fiftieth appearance by a teenage player in the last 10 years, with Kenny awarding 42 of those caps
1727322255192117405

The other 8 were Rice (3) and Obafemi under MON and Mick capped Connolly (2), Parrott, and O'Connor.

[SkStu]

What was he talking about? He said at one stage that the team is set up excellently for the next "Nations League B campaign without the likes of France of Germany in our group". We've never had a top tier nation in our NL groups. Did he even know what competition he was managing in, game to game?? Thank god he's gone.


Thought he was his usual stuttering rambling self to be honest. Still deluded as to what he has "achieved"

yeah, it was awful. He barely answered a question he was asked. But i felt for him.

[osarusan]

Is that stat above counting each appearance by the same teen? Seems kind of pointless if so.

[LurcherLover]

Is that stat above counting each appearance by the same teen? Seems kind of pointless if so.Yes, so under Kenny it has been Ferguson, Bazunu, Parrot, Knight & Omobamidele who have made 42 appearances between them if I'm reading it right.

[tetsujin1979]

Is that stat above counting each appearance by the same teen? Seems kind of pointless if so.

yeah, it's six players, making 42 appearances. It shows how many times Kenny capped a teenage player, right from the start of his reign. It took Martin O'Neill four years to give one teenage player a cap, and that was Decl*n R*ce

[Eirambler]

What teenage players did the previous managers not cap that they should have done? Other than Grealish, who wouldn't have accepted one. To my mind, we had nothing coming through back then, so next to nobody to cap. In the last three years we have had loads of players coming through. I have no idea what the lad on Twitter's stat was supposed to tell us, but if it was meant as some kind of defence of Stephen Kenny it seems a fairly pointless stat I'd say.

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think it's a defence or criticism of him. Just emphasises that there was no outstanding teenage talent in the squad for a few years, I think we had one of the oldest squads at Euro 2012 and Euro 2016, and as a result Kenny had to take a chance with the talent younger players available to him

[ColourfulPeanut]

Yeah not a single member of our squad was even eligble for young player of the tournament in 2016. Hendrick and Brady were our youngest players and they were 24.5, which isn't even that young. 10/23 were 30 or older too.

Our squad was ancient compared to others.

[CSAD]

I don't think it's a defence or criticism of him. Just emphasises that there was no outstanding teenage talent in the squad for a few years, I think we had one of the oldest squads at Euro 2012 and Euro 2016, and as a result Kenny had to take a chance with the talent younger players available to him

We had the oldest squad in both tournaments.

[tetsujin1979]

We had the oldest squad in both tournaments.
The average age of the squad at Euro 2012 was 28.3
Russia had a slightly older squad, with an average age of 28.35 years

With an average player age of 29.4 years, we had the oldest squad at Euro 2016 by a little over six months
The Czech Republic squad was second, with an average player age of 28.7

[samhaydenjr]

One positive thing to come out the game is that Adam Idah is keeping his scoring record ticking over, at least, making it three goals in his last seven internationals. I haven't seen any games - how is his general play?

[pineapple stu]

Thought he was poor enough on Tuesday tbh.

The goal was a gift. He had one good moment in the second half when he nipped in to run possession in their half, skipped past one challenge and set Johnstone free down the left. Other than that, I felt his touch was often poor in their half and he possibly cost us a goal in the first half when challenging for the same ball as one of his teammates; I think he arrived in time to catch the back of his leg and screw up the shot

[tetsujin1979]

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