Sam Curtis D St. Johnstone (loan from Sheffield Utd) b.2005

[Olé Olé]

Thanks a mill for that, Crafty. Was he exposed for pace? Is that a concern? It's one I sort of have.

[Eirambler]

That's a really useful report actually. Only one game obviously but it kind of reinforces the main concern I have about Curtis. I don't think he's quick enough to play full back at a high level. I think he'll end up playing centre back - as long as he's considered tall enough (I believe he's the same height as Eiran Cashin - basically right on the edge of what's considered tall enough for a centre back). Kind of the same hole Lee O'Connor fell into. I think Curtis is a better player than O'Connor, but I also think physical limitations he has no control over may limit his eventual ceiling.

[CraftyToePoke]

Thanks a mill for that, Crafty. Was he exposed for pace? Is that a concern? It's one I sort of have.

The first one was more a standing position error in my fans eye opinion, he was square on & you'd usually see FBs half turned ready for the chase. The second two he just wasn't close enough in starting position to disrupt the crosser. I wouldn't term either as being beaten in a foot race & he didn't get tested that way yesterday, a straight race. The winger got away from him on the first one though yes.

They are at home next on the 31st to Wrexham & Jimmy Mc down that side. If he stays in the team I'll go again.

[Olé Olé]

The first one was more a standing position error in my fans eye opinion, he was square on & you'd usually see FBs half turned ready for the chase. The second two he just wasn't close enough in starting position to disrupt the crosser. I wouldn't term either as being beaten in a foot race & he didn't get tested that way yesterday, a straight race. The winger got away from him on the first one though yes.

They are at home next on the 31st to Wrexham & Jimmy Mc down that side. If he stays in the team I'll go again.

Thanks for that. Things he can improve quite easily with good coaching.

[CraftyToePoke]

Started away at Oxford at RB again tonight & it did not go well, was at fault for the goal to make it 2.0, low ball across the box from the left, should have been cut out but wasn't and should never have reached the back post but it did & back there he'd had all the time in the world to pick up the only Oxford player anywhere in the vicinity & not allow a tap in. He left the guy with a tap in to kill the tie.

Seemed animated, frustrated throughout, shouting at team mates & waving his hands around plenty. Was booked on 65 & subbed straight away. Taking some flak on the forum.

Last years back four all got good moves, one to Southampton for ten million & was the only England u20 not at an elite academy. One to Sheffield United, 2.5 million, one to Hannover in Germany and the other is at Oxford & in the Championship, so there is expectation at the club because they were decent. So far it's two losses, four conceded & no goals scored.

Hopefully this gets better but it does need to. Him & the whole group I mean. Be interesting if he starts again Saturday, but Cian Hayes might, he was excellent tonight.

[Eirambler]

It's a big step up from Pat's to Peterborough, unfortunately not going over until 18 means he's playing catch up already. Hopefully Peterborough give him a decent chance over the course of the season, or he could fall further behind.

[liamoo11]

It's a big step up from Pat's to Peterborough, unfortunately not going over until 18 means he's playing catch up already. Hopefully Peterborough give him a decent chance over the course of the season, or he could fall further behind.

Playing mens football at a poor level at a young age in a poor coachng environment has the disadvantage of ingraining poor skillsets which are difficult to change later on. Its like the Lad who plays loads of golf with his dad but doesn't have a structured golf academy pathway , he is often "better" at a younger age but passed out by his peers over time

[CSAD]

Playing mens football at a poor level at a young age in a poor coachng environment has the disadvantage of ingraining poor skillsets which are difficult to change later on. Its like the Lad who plays loads of golf with his dad but doesn't have a structured golf academy pathway , he is often "better" at a younger age but passed out by his peers over time

Funny because Umeh and O'Mahony who both went over only a year earlier could barely get a kick in the first division and yet are seen as viable options in the PL this season yet Curtis is slogging it out in league 1 despite being a regular in the premier division

Nothing to do with the level of coaching its sadly, like many before him, the result of the lad making a poor career decision so must suffer the consequences for it, whoever told him Sheffield United was a good move needs to be shot.

[CraftyToePoke]

the result of the lad making a poor career decision so must suffer the consequences for it, whoever told him Sheffield United was a good move needs to be shot.

They in turn haven't done him any favours with the loan destination, the other defenders at Peterborough are as follows ;

18 - loan
22 - academy & struggling so far
18 - signing
23 - signing from Swedish D2
23 - signing
22 - academy

The division is a bear pit & they are all kids or academy lads getting their first real run. The club do this, it is their model, these lads do improve and move for big profits, whether it is the best place for his first loan and extended exposure is another matter, because he's not theirs and any profit won't be either, so what's their motivation to keep persisting with him & why didn't he or Sheffield United seem to weigh this aspect up ?

All that said, about LOI coaching, mens ball, academy ball, his errors so far have been, body shape wrong & allowing a cross which Huddersfield scored from, too far from the crosser two other times, and being asleep at the back post last night. They are basics, he shouldn't be getting caught like this IMO & being at Pats doesn't explain it away.

[CSAD]

They in turn haven't done him any favours with the loan destination, the other defenders at Peterborough are as follows ;

18 - loan
22 - academy & struggling so far
18 - signing
23 - signing from Swedish D2
23 - signing
22 - academy

The division is a bear pit & they are all kids or academy lads getting their first real run. The club do this, it is their model, these lads do improve and move for big profits, whether it is the best place for his first loan and extended exposure is another matter, because he's not theirs and any profit won't be either, so what's their motivation to keep persisting with him & why didn't he or Sheffield United seem to weigh this aspect up ?

All that said, about LOI coaching, mens ball, academy ball, his errors so far have been, body shape wrong & allowing a cross which Huddersfield scored from, too far from the crosser two other times, and being asleep at the back post las night. They are basics, he shouldn't be getting caught like this IMO & being at Pats doesn't explain it away.


Well I suspect the reason he didn't weigh up those factors is the same reason why he signed for Sheffield United in the first place...he was poorly advised or doesn't have his head screwed on.

A lot of people using the coaching he got at St Pats as an excuse seem to conveniently be forgetting one simple fact...he's spent over 6 months at Sheffield United now, surely by now they are the ones who have to accept a large share of responsibility for why he hasn't progressed, and if he hasn't progressed why did they send him on loan in the first place? If they'd transformed him in 6 months we'd be praising Sheffield United to the end and back but when things haven't gone as well its all St Pats fault...I'm noticing a pattern here.

[nigel-harps1954]

Funny because Umeh and O'Mahony who both went over only a year earlier could barely get a kick in the first division and yet are seen as viable options in the PL this season yet Curtis is slogging it out in league 1 despite being a regular in the premier division

Nothing to do with the level of coaching its sadly, like many before him, the result of the lad making a poor career decision so must suffer the consequences for it, whoever told him Sheffield United was a good move needs to be shot.

It's not worth your time. Sometimes it's better to say nothing as there are people on here who love to jump on anything negative towards the League of Ireland at any given opportunity.

[liamoo11]

It's not worth your time. Sometimes it's better to say nothing as there are people on here who love to jump on anything negative towards the League of Ireland at any given opportunity.

The league of ireland is poor though that's the reality. It's good entertainment and the crowds are good so that's a real.positive but the quality is poor. That doesn't matter as long as we aren't depending on the league to provide all.our international players. If the best % still move to Europe at 16 into good academies then I think the mix of lads getting opportunities at 16 or 17 in the league here combined with the european lads who have a higher quality ceiling will work well internationally for us at senior level.

The problem 10 or 15 years ago was that youth football was getting so many players hoovered up by English teams just to make up numbers in academies that league of ireland clubs had very few young players of sufficient quality to bring into their first team squads so lads who would have benefited from playing league of ireland at 17 or 18 missed out

[nigel-harps1954]

The league of ireland is poor though that's the reality. It's good entertainment and the crowds are good so that's a real.positive but the quality is poor. That doesn't matter as long as we aren't depending on the league to provide all.our international players. If the best % still move to Europe at 16 into good academies then I think the mix of lads getting opportunities at 16 or 17 in the league here combined with the european lads who have a higher quality ceiling will work well internationally for us at senior level.

The problem 10 or 15 years ago was that youth football was getting so many players hoovered up by English teams just to make up numbers in academies that league of ireland clubs had very few young players of sufficient quality to bring into their first team squads so lads who would have benefited from playing league of ireland at 17 or 18 missed out

That "poor level at a young age in a poor coachng environment" seems to be working okay for our underage international teams though.

The playing level of the League of Ireland is not top tier European football, but the constant scoffing at the level of coaching underage players get here compared to European counterparts is what irks me. It wouldn't matter if any young player coming out of an English academy has a rough start to life in English senior football. They need to be given time. But the immediate writing off of a young player who has come out of the League of Ireland seems to be something a group of posters on here revel in.

[Razors left peg]

That "poor level at a young age in a poor coachng environment" seems to be working okay for our underage international teams though.

The playing level of the League of Ireland is not top tier European football, but the constant scoffing at the level of coaching underage players get here compared to European counterparts is what irks me. It wouldn't matter if any young player coming out of an English academy has a rough start to life in English senior football. They need to be given time. But the immediate writing off of a young player who has come out of the League of Ireland seems to be something a group of posters on here revel in.

I dont think anyone is reveling in it Nigel. Yes the LOI is serving the underage teams quite well but the gap to senior football is enormous. Lads are getting the benefit of playing with senior players that seems to be helping at u17 and u19 level but the benefit of that playing time, as of yet is not carrying across to senior football. Seeing the likes of Ross Tierney, Dawson Devoy, Darragh Burns, Johnny Kenny coming back to the league after not making any impression across the water has taken the wind out of the sails a bit for how good we think some of these young players might be. Andy Lyons for my money has been the best player in the league in recent years and one I really thought could be an Ireland squad fixture by now, but hes in obscurity.

I wish we had a conveyor belt of players every season that we were seeing generating money for LOI clubs by going away and excelling but its just not happening and the results in Europe are also showing that the league just isnt in a great place from a talent point of view at the moment.

[CSAD]

The league of ireland is poor though that's the reality. It's good entertainment and the crowds are good so that's a real.positive but the quality is poor. That doesn't matter as long as we aren't depending on the league to provide all.our international players. If the best % still move to Europe at 16 into good academies then I think the mix of lads getting opportunities at 16 or 17 in the league here combined with the european lads who have a higher quality ceiling will work well internationally for us at senior level.

The problem 10 or 15 years ago was that youth football was getting so many players hoovered up by English teams just to make up numbers in academies that league of ireland clubs had very few young players of sufficient quality to bring into their first team squads so lads who would have benefited from playing league of ireland at 17 or 18 missed out

The quality of the league really doesn't matter at his age, what matters is he's playing games at senior level. And like I said its just being used as a convenient excuse because the fact of the matter is he's been at Sheffield United for 6 months now so the blame lies with them as to why he hasn't kicked on.

As Nigel also said, if the level of coaching the LOI's get is so poor why are they able to compete consistently with their European counter parts at underage level? Surely if this is true Ireland would be in pot 4 at u17 & u19 level and getting battered every year at these respective level?

[CSAD]

I dont think anyone is reveling in it Nigel. Yes the LOI is serving the underage teams quite well but the gap to senior football is enormous. Lads are getting the benefit of playing with senior players that seems to be helping at u17 and u19 level but the benefit of that playing time, as of yet is not carrying across to senior football. Seeing the likes of Ross Tierney, Dawson Devoy, Darragh Burns, Johnny Kenny coming back to the league after not making any impression across the water has taken the wind out of the sails a bit for how good we think some of these young players might be. Andy Lyons for my money has been the best player in the league in recent years and one I really thought could be an Ireland squad fixture by now, but hes in obscurity.

I wish we had a conveyor belt of players every season that we were seeing generating money for LOI clubs by going away and excelling but its just not happening and the results in Europe are also showing that the league just isnt in a great place from a talent point of view at the moment.


Well the likes of Tierney, Devoy, Burns and Kenny each made horrendous career decisions and are now facing the consequences for those decision, something Curtis has unfortunately followed also. For me that's the biggest concern more than anything, whatever about how good or bad the players are what is clear is they are not giving themselves the best chance of declaring with their career decisions.

The only one I'd make an exception to is Lyons and what was encouraging in his case was he was able to seamlessly transfer over to the championship and perform, sadly though he's had a lot of injuries to deal with including 1 serious one and I believe his father sadly passed away which ofcourse he was given time off for.

I dont think Europe is evidence of a lack of talent, its more evidence of a lack of money...the reality is experience his huge in Europe and LOI club just cant afford international players that clubs even like Celje can.

[Razors left peg]

Well the likes of Tierney, Devoy, Burns and Kenny each made horrendous career decisions and are now facing the consequences for those decision, something Curtis has unfortunately followed also. For me that's the biggest concern more than anything, whatever about how good or bad the players are what is clear is they are not giving themselves the best chance of declaring with their career decisions.

The only one I'd make an exception to is Lyons and what was encouraging in his case was he was able to seamlessly transfer over to the championship and perform, sadly though he's had a lot of injuries to deal with including 1 serious one and I believe his father sadly passed away which ofcourse he was given time off for.

I dont think Europe is evidence of a lack of talent, its more evidence of a lack of money...the reality is experience his huge in Europe and LOI club just cant afford international players that clubs even like Celje can.


We cant keep blaming the clubs that players go to for them not succeeding. If theres a common thread of players not being successful across multiple clubs, then maybe its just the players not being good enough rather than the clubs fault. Personal responsibility has to be a big factor.

As for Europe, Celje is one thing, but we have struggled with Gibraltar teams this summer.... thats not acceptable

[CSAD]

We cant keep blaming the clubs that players go to for them not succeeding. If theres a common thread of players not being successful across multiple clubs, then maybe its just the players not being good enough rather than the clubs fault. Personal responsibility has to be a big factor.

As for Europe, Celje is one thing, but we have struggled with Gibraltar teams this summer.... thats not acceptable

In this instance I think you can, I remember every one of those moves and I was not surprised in the slightest that everyone of them failed, it was obvious just looking at the background of those clubs. They were either unstable (MK Dons) or had no clear pathway to first team football (Celtic).

The one I was disappointed in was Tierney as he did get semi regular game time there after he moved but towards the end of his second season for some reason he just fell out of favour.

I would agree about personal responsibility plays a role here, these players need to have a better understanding of what clubs to sign for and what clubs to avoid and sadly most of them haven't judging by the clubs they've signed for.

I dont mean just Celje, what I'm getting at his most clubs in Europe are able to afford International players (even if only a few) whereas Irish clubs just dont and even if they sign an international they tend to be from a pot 6 nation or of similar quality. I think especially against clubs like Gibraltar sides this can be especially important as these sort of teams their weakness can be their strength and make them challenging sides to open up, that's where you need experience at this level which the likes of Derry and Shelbourne just dont see to have. For all there struggles St Pats have had in the league it comes as no surprise to me they are looked far better in Europe than Derry and Shelbourne, its because they have plenty of players who've done it before and a manager with experience in this regard...its not a coincidence.

[Razors left peg]

Im sorry CSAD I just disagree with your theory fundamentally. Too many players from the LOI have just been unsuccessful with moves to just blame the clubs they go to. Other players at those clubs play, you have to be professional enough, strong willed and good enough to beat out the man in your position to get into the team. Its just not happening.

Danny Mandriou is another example, a brilliant LOI player. I was convinced Mandriou would go on to get Ireland caps, and he did seem to be going pretty well initially, but now hes a free agent and has had his attitude questioned by Mark Kennedy while he was manager. Jack Byrne was another, I dont know how many times excuses were made for him over the years, super footballer, but not the most professional in the world.

They have been the success stories over the years like Kevin Doyle and Seamus but they are much more the exception than the rule. Ronan Coughlan is doing well unexpectedly I would say and hopefully he progresses a bit but lets stop blaming English clubs for LOI players generally not doing well over there, they get the same chances as any footballer that joins their same club.

And back to the initial point that Nigel said that people are reveling in the lack of success, I honestly think its the exact opposite. I find it infuriating. I want all these lads to go over there and be brilliant, and when I hear stories of players like Mandriou having attitude issues or whatever it drives me nuts, because that is the sort of thing that may block the English path for future LOI young players

[liamoo11]

The quality of the league really doesn't matter at his age, what matters is he's playing games at senior level. And like I said its just being used as a convenient excuse because the fact of the matter is he's been at Sheffield United for 6 months now so the blame lies with them as to why he hasn't kicked on.

As Nigel also said, if the level of coaching the LOI's get is so poor why are they able to compete consistently with their European counter parts at underage level? Surely if this is true Ireland would be in pot 4 at u17 & u19 level and getting battered every year at these respective level?

League of ireland level.up.to.under 17s is a very good standard because teams are xoaxhed at that level to keep the ball and be creative just luke academy football in the UK. The problem is when the best of those players at 17 jump up to senior league of ireland the level of coaching and tactical awareness is not at the level of senior football in the UK. The under 19 league drops off in standard because the best players from 17 on are invite the senior sides now. At under 19 level internationally we tend to have UK based players either who have moved at 18 like o mahony and umeh or are of irish heritage

[CSAD]

Im sorry CSAD I just disagree with your theory fundamentally. Too many players from the LOI have just been unsuccessful with moves to just blame the clubs they go to. Other players at those clubs play, you have to be professional enough, strong willed and good enough to beat out the man in your position to get into the team. Its just not happening.

Danny Mandriou is another example, a brilliant LOI player. I was convinced Mandriou would go on to get Ireland caps, and he did seem to be going pretty well initially, but now hes a free agent and has had his attitude questioned by Mark Kennedy while he was manager. Jack Byrne was another, I dont know how many times excuses were made for him over the years, super footballer, but not the most professional in the world.

They have been the success stories over the years like Kevin Doyle and Seamus but they are much more the exception than the rule. Ronan Coughlan is doing well unexpectedly I would say and hopefully he progresses a bit but lets stop blaming English clubs for LOI players generally not doing well over there, they get the same chances as any footballer that joins their same club.

And back to the initial point that Nigel said that people are reveling in the lack of success, I honestly think its the exact opposite. I find it infuriating. I want all these lads to go over there and be brilliant, and when I hear stories of players like Mandriou having attitude issues or whatever it drives me nuts, because that is the sort of thing that may block the English path for future LOI young players

Probably because too many have made bad career decisions, it's been a constant issue for plenty of Irish players in England so not really a surprise its happening in the LOI also. I even look at players like Devoy and Tierney, when they resign in the LOI rather than sign for a team challenging for the title they happily sign for a their old side Bohemians that are nowhere near the top...that told me all I needed to know about these players, no ambition to develop as players just happy to go where they are comfortable which is probably why they are back in the LOI.

In Mandriou's case he's a free agent by choice as he was offered a new deal by Lincoln and he rejected it. There is talk atm that he may be off to Steaue Bucharest and he has had contact about declaring for Romania which he's seriously considering, which probably explains why he hasn't re-signed for Lincoln. But this whole situation is up in the air but supposedly that's a big reason why he's still a free agent. The player I feel bad for most of all is Andy Lyons, he's a player that I feel has career ambition, even leaving Bohemians for Rovers and took all the heat that came with that, did well and then got a move to the championship where he didn't look out of place at all. Sadly injuries have held him back but I'm convinced if he can regain his fitness he will be a player that will succeed.

Jack Byrne is just a **** tbh, every single club he's gone to his time has ended to same way...im just surprised it hasn't happened yet at Rovers tbh.

[CSAD]

League of ireland level.up.to.under 17s is a very good standard because teams are xoaxhed at that level to keep the ball and be creative just luke academy football in the UK. The problem is when the best of those players at 17 jump up to senior league of ireland the level of coaching and tactical awareness is not at the level of senior football in the UK. The under 19 league drops off in standard because the best players from 17 on are invite the senior sides now. At under 19 level internationally we tend to have UK based players either who have moved at 18 like o mahony and umeh or are of irish heritage

I mean this is true but I dont see how this is a factor in Curtis not developing, especially when you consider he spent 6 months at SUFC before moving to League One so whatever way you put it they must shoulder a large portion of the blame.

[pineapple stu]

We cant keep blaming the clubs that players go to for them not succeeding. If theres a common thread of players not being successful across multiple clubs, then maybe its just the players not being good enough rather than the clubs fault. Personal responsibility has to be a big factor.

As for Europe, Celje is one thing, but we have struggled with Gibraltar teams this summer.... thats not acceptable

Agree 100% here FWIW

[ifk101]

A high proportion of all football transfers ultimately prove to be “unsuccessful”. Was just reading that Aberdeen’s record for a transfer fee received has been broken, previously held by a RB signed by Liverpool – Calvin Ramsay. Ramsay has had a few “unsuccessful” loan spells so far since moving to Liverpool and looks like a transfer bust at this stage.

If the argument is “too many” LOI transfers to UK clubs fail (can we quantify this?), remember Sheffield got Curtis for next to nothing, certainly relative to what Liverpool paid Aberdeen for Ramsay. Worth the punt I think - Curtis has played plenty in the LOI and has been capped at multiple underage levels. If it doesn’t work out, it will hardly make a dent on Sheffield’s well-being. And maybe that’s the issue here. LOI players are available next to nothing, they are a value punt. If they work out, great. If not, it’s no biggy – no pressing financial need for clubs to persevere to make it work.

[CraftyToePoke]

Lads, lads I've started an awful rumble here.
Everybody calma llama.
Nothing is definitive about Curtis yet.
He's had a patchy first 180 minutes, with some good bits but bad bits too & they stick out.

The whole defence are under fire. The whole defence are also kids. Too early for verdicts on this. Let's see if he can stay in the side & how things are ten games in if he does. It might improve & it doesn't have to improve loads for him to steady things.

[Razors left peg]

Lads, lads I've started an awful rumble here.
Everybody calma llama.
Nothing is definitive about Curtis yet.
He's had a patchy first 180 minutes, with some good bits but bad bits too & they stick out.

The whole defence are under fire. The whole defence are also kids. Too early for verdicts on this. Let's see if he can stay in the side & how things are ten games in if he does. It might improve & it doesn't have to improve loads for him to steady things.

Personally I find it an interesting discussion. Theres 2 kinds of players leaving the LOI for British clubs in the post Brexit era really, the lads who are attempting to go straight into 1st teams at the lower levels and then the others, generally younger, going into youth structures at a higher level. This is purely observational and I havent deep dived into it so I'll be wide open to correction.

The afore mentioned Devoy, Burns, Madriou, Tierney and Lyons are probably the bigger names to have gone across to go into 1st teams and not made a massive success of it. Because they are relatively big names in LOI it maybe brightens the spotlight on the lack of success, while in fairness someone like Graham Coughan is doing pretty well and Gavin Molloy has made a great start at Aberdeen. Akachukwu will be an interesting watch at Southampton to see how he goes, considering he played a fair amount for Waterford. Ogbene is the biggest success from LOI in recent years and he wasnt a big name before going across.

With the younger lads who have gone into youth teams it'll be a bit of time before we really see if that path turns out to be more successful. The likes of Umeh and O'Mahony are very promising but Killian Phillips is an example of one who probably wont make the cut at the top level just yet anyway.

Curtis is in the middle a bit, gone over with the expectation of 1st team at high level, finds himself in lower level and this season with be character building if nothing else.

[nigel-harps1954]

Personally I find it an interesting discussion. Theres 2 kinds of players leaving the LOI for British clubs in the post Brexit era really, the lads who are attempting to go straight into 1st teams at the lower levels and then the others, generally younger, going into youth structures at a higher level. This is purely observational and I havent deep dived into it so I'll be wide open to correction.

The afore mentioned Devoy, Burns, Madriou, Tierney and Lyons are probably the bigger names to have gone across to go into 1st teams and not made a massive success of it. Because they are relatively big names in LOI it maybe brightens the spotlight on the lack of success, while in fairness someone like Graham Coughan is doing pretty well and Gavin Molloy has made a great start at Aberdeen. Akachukwu will be an interesting watch at Southampton to see how he goes, considering he played a fair amount for Waterford. Ogbene is the biggest success from LOI in recent years and he wasnt a big name before going across.

With the younger lads who have gone into youth teams it'll be a bit of time before we really see if that path turns out to be more successful. The likes of Umeh and O'Mahony are very promising but Killian Phillips is an example of one who probably wont make the cut at the top level just yet anyway.

Curtis is in the middle a bit, gone over with the expectation of 1st team at high level, finds himself in lower level and this season with be character building if nothing else.

It's worth noting all the others who have gone over, fairly under the radar, not particularly stand out LOI players, and done well, so far. The likes of Tunmise Sobowale, Roland Idowu, Ryan Graydon, Tommy Lonergan and Jack Moylan. Those are players who have only gone over in the last year or so. Even the like of Emmanuel Adegboyega who has quickly found himself in first team affairs in League Two and now Scottish Premiership after breaking through at Drogheda.

For all these high profile 'failures', there's plenty of others who make the grade, like the above, and countless others before them too.

Likewise, there's been plenty of established League One and League Two players who have come over to LOI and been utterly sh!te too.

[Razors left peg]

It's worth noting all the others who have gone over, fairly under the radar, not particularly stand out LOI players, and done well, so far. The likes of Tunmise Sobowale, Roland Idowu, Ryan Graydon, Tommy Lonergan and Jack Moylan. Those are players who have only gone over in the last year or so. Even the like of Emmanuel Adegboyega who has quickly found himself in first team affairs in League Two and now Scottish Premiership after breaking through at Drogheda.

For all these high profile 'failures', there's plenty of others who make the grade, like the above, and countless others before them too.

Likewise, there's been plenty of established League One and League Two players who have come over to LOI and been utterly sh!te too.

Could it be that theres a bit of an ego thing that lads who are some of the better players in the LOI go over and suddenly find themselves being the small fish in a big pond and are not able to handle that adjustment mentally, whereas its not such a mental adjustment for some of the lesser known players?

[nigel-harps1954]

Could it be that theres a bit of an ego thing that lads who are some of the better players in the LOI go over and suddenly find themselves being the small fish in a big pond and are not able to handle that adjustment mentally, whereas its not such a mental adjustment for some of the lesser known players?

It's possible, but I do think there's an element of inflated wages playing a part in some lads coming back. Some of the figures quoted are eye watering for a LOI level.

[Eminence Grise]

Everybody calma llama.

Personally I quite enjoy a Sam-a-llama ding dong now and again.

[Acornvilla]

FWIW, I still stand by the current LOI being about as strong as it has ever been in terms of strength and depth, there just isn't 1/2 stand out teams running away with it, the bottom/middle clubs are the best they've ever been. We've the current 5th and 7th placed sides playing European playoffs next week. Europe is still a cup competition after all, so we will win games we shouldn't, and lose ones we should, all the time. The Derry result in Gibraltar is horrendous, but tbf they did dominate them at home with 10 men for over an hour, so there was a clear difference in ability, I'd blame coaching as much as the players for what's gone on at times. They're a bit of a weird team of LOI superstars closer to the end of their careers than the beginning.

A lot of football comes down to timing/luck and making the right move at the right time. It feels very common for Irish lads to get injured right when they move over, so I do wonder if one of the biggest issues is just how big and strong the average EFL player is, and the load that is expected to be put on their body. There's about as many lads going over and being successful as ones that aren't, and with different moves come potentially different results, but we will never know.

Coming home isn't always necessarily a failure, as said in many threads here recently, some have come home for family reasons while they still had offers in the UK, or because they're now being paid very well while getting to live near family, many people have very different priorities in life. Chris Forrester/Graham Burke are examples of players who came home years ago for those sorts of reasons, whatever about the younger recent moves.

As for Curtis, he was a center back originally, and ended up playing full back for Pat's because they didn't have any if I'm not misremembering things, maybe he needs to return more centrally now, I'm not sure if he's good enough to get away with not being any bigger thou. He's always been a strong athlete for his age, but there's only going to be more expected of him moving forward, it has been the guts of a year since he's played regular football, so maybe he just needs time, I definitely wouldn't be sure that Sheff United were the best place for him to be in the 2nd half of last season.

[CraftyToePoke]

Wasn't at it or didn't see it but he started away at Shrewsbury today, played the full 90, played a part of that at LB and seems to have played well, forum is much more positive on what they've seen anyway. Peterborough won 1-4. The opponent are a drop in quality from the first two games, but he has had a better day.

[2 Year Contract]

Robbed of two assists by that absolute donkey playing up front!

1825127772974448695

[liamoo11]

Robbed of two assists by that absolute donkey playing up front!

https://x.com/reptracker/status/1825127772974448695?s=46

An inverted creative right back who then switches to overlapping marauding left back that's very impressive. You have to give Peterborough credit for the work they have done with him in the last week

[CraftyToePoke]

An inverted creative right back who then switches to overlapping marauding left back that's very impressive. You have to give Peterborough credit for the work they have done with him in the last week

After game one the manager said he'd definitely play the cup game Tuesday because he really needed minutes in the legs, and the chairman podcast midweek said something about him being nowhere near fit but would be more than fine once he was. So maybe an injury pre season at Sheffield, hopefully he didn't report back out of shape, but after two second half substitutions he finished yesterdays match and looked better. Exeter away and Wrexham home next with a week between each.

[CraftyToePoke]

Another 90 today, another win, 1-2 away at Exeter & a cute late booking to help see it out. Up to joint sixth and a forum warming to him week by week. Wrexham at home Saturday and if its not raining and I wake up in time i'll go. Szmodics sale and Ivan Toneys likely sale will see players arrive at Peterborough so an exciting season shaping up.

Long term contract given to an academy right full back this week who the club will look to develop as well, he's 19.

[CraftyToePoke]

Went to Peterborough / Wrexham on Saturday & Curtis started again and at RB. The stadium was close to sold out & Wrexham played right on the edge & over it when they could get away with it, pushed right onto Peterboroughs young defence menacingly, so his two early misplaced passes drew thousands of groans and jeers from the away end.

Midway through the first half he got bullied from a corner for Wrexhams second goal, close range tap in which he just has to find a way to win, or prevent the score.

Upsides, he stood up to it all but maybe should have gone down when McClean raised his hand to his head. Some good passes, some a bit sloppy, too high. Some good last ditch defending and three very effective overlaps, but had to fire it across early on one of them, he was inside the box with players to hit but he took touches & it was closed down.

Was subbed with about ten to play, it was an ugly but very effective Wrexham game plan, grizzled mercenaries V young ballers & McClean going down the shin & into the instep of a sub who was doing well summed them up. They can play, but they like to roughhouse just as much. He did ok in parts, his side got sihthoused and they lost.

Cian Hayes came on and he gets you off your seat with the wing play but he is yet to put a good ball in after getting everyone excited. Chris Conn Clarke was the sub who did really well until McClean fixed his instep for him. O'Connor, for Wrexham was good, played CB but stepped into midfield mostly, takes their corners & some frees, left footed, good player.

A guy arrived on deadline day from Man City who was on loan here last year and was excellent at RB. He's arrived as a CB, can play either role. Someone's getting dropped for him, hopefully a CB though.

[CraftyToePoke]

A guy arrived on deadline day from Man City who was on loan here last year and was excellent at RB. He's arrived as a CB, can play either role. Someone's getting dropped for him, hopefully a CB though

& it was Curtis who missed the cut today, went to a five & played an attacking player at RWB. The Man City lad being comfortable at RB enabled that, he played right of the three. Team played well, were three up after an hour but set about pis sing it away late on. He was subbed on in the 80th minute to shore it up. Won 3.2.

[Eirambler]

Fair to say it's been a tough first year in England for Curtis. Was on the end of some fairly critical comments from Chris Wilder earlier in the year about how far off the standard he was at Sheffield United and how much catching up he needed to do to get up to speed with the pace of the game in England.

His loan to Peterborough hasn't been much better unfortunately. He has only played one full 90 in the league since September, was an unused sub last week and dropped out of the match day squad entirely at the weekend. Peterborough as a whole haven't been brilliant this season, down in mid table in League 1, but even at that level he hasn't really been able to make an impact.

Will be interesting to see whether the lack of action in recent games is a sign that Peterborough are ready to cut their losses and send him back in January or if he can recover and regain his place. If he gets sent back hopefully he can at least get a loan to League 2 to see if that's a more suitable level for his ability at this (still early) stage of his career.

[CraftyToePoke]

The academy lad Dornelly who was unheard of pre this season has been given a new contract & was recently called into an England U20 squad & made his debut for them in a 4-0 win against Germany. He's far from perfect himself, errors & inconsistent but he is Peterboroughs player. Curtis isn't. Looks like they might putting the development into their own asset & you can't blame them given Curtis performances.

Curtis has had plenty chances, plenty minutes & hasn't done enough, I watched a bit of midweek game recently on the red button, he started LB, was moved to RB & twice in very good middle third possession with good options ahead of him & alongside him, he rolled the pass straight to an opponent. It was desperate like. He was subbed off at HT. Ferguson gave an interview around that time which wasn't complimentary about the defenders available to him. Then Curtis vanished soon after.

The forum tonight is saying the Posh+ broadcast is speculating he's gone / going back to Sheffield United. Unconfirmed but what point in staying if he's not even on the bench tonight v Northampton in the EFL Trophy.

What was he thinking going to a club where the entire defense is under 23 & all but one are in their debut season in English football. Madness.

[Eirambler]

I don't know the background but I'm guessing he was maybe sent to Peterborough more than choosing them. It's a shame it hasn't worked out but it sounds like he's just not good enough to play at that level yet.

It he is indeed sent back the question now might be whether he is taken out of the limelight for a few months to train with the development team at Sheffield United, or do they try and find a different loan for him at a better level for his ability, to see whether he can use that as a platform to improve.

[nigel-harps1954]

To be fair to the lad, he only turned 19 two weeks ago. He would probably have benefitted from a few months in the development squad to get up to speed. If he spends 6 months back at development at Sheffield United and looks for a fresh loan in the summer it might be the most beneficial move for all involved.

[Eirambler]

He did get half a season in the development squad at Sheffield United though, before going out on loan. He has plenty of time in hand, but his 2024 has definitely come in well below where some people's expectations were for him this time last year. Quite a few thought he'd be getting decent game time for Sheffield United this season, not coming up short in the division below.

[CraftyToePoke]

Recalled by Sheffield United
https://www.theposh.com/news/curtis-recalled-blades

And a Blog post on the club forum on all players so far this season ::

https://londonroad.net/2024/12/31/peterborough-united-24-25-half-term-report/

Sam Curtis– Quite possibly the worst right back I’ve ever seen at Posh. And I remember Kerrea Gilbert and Darren Lyons. The only positive is he’s only on loan, and we can send him back to Sheffield United tomorrow. Hopefully he’ll be made to walk there. I don’t care how cheap he was as a result of the Harrison Burrows deal, we paid over the odds. 1 / 10

---------------

Probably a touch harsh, I watched some real muck playing for them, but no one arguing with it on the forum I notice so far. He had worked his way back into the matchday and even started yesterday but at RWB, they were 2-0 down early to the bottom side, and was subbed off on the hour.

Needs to chose his next move carefully, needs to be alongside experience, but equally has to do better himself too.

[Eirambler]

Found it strange that he started yesterday, were they desperately short in the position or were they just taking one more look at him just to absolutely confirm to themselves that he wasn't good enough before they let him go?

Either way it's been a shocking loan for him - from being the standout young player in the League of Ireland in 2023 to being a country mile off the pace at a mid table League 1 team in 2024. No major injury excuses either. It just shows the step up in standard required even to be competent at that level as a young player coming from Ireland at 18.

Curtis' story so far will likely influence the decisions of other 16 and 17 year olds faced with the choice of going to continental Europe or staying at home until 18.

[CraftyToePoke]

Yesterday made no sense, they went to a five with Cian Hayes on the left, he's no LWB, he's a tiny ball carrier type. It looked panicky because they're dropping like a stone. Even if it was a last chance for Curtis, he didn't perform.

[nigel-harps1954]

Perhaps it's just yet another example that the playing style differences between League One and League of Ireland are very different.

A ball playing right back isn't going to slot into a kick and chase physical league like League One.

[Eirambler]

I think both leagues have teams that play a range of playing styles. Plenty of players go out on loan from Premier League and Championship clubs and do well in League 1. Troy Parrott would be an example of a player who went on loan there and excelled (at MK Dons) without necessarily having the strength or pace that might be considered necessary in a supposed "kick and chase" league. Ultimately the overall football ability of a player at any point in time will be the main deciding factor in whether a player does well at a new club. Peterborough supporters appear to consider Curtis to have been their worst player in the first half of the season.

Sheffield United now have to decide whether it's better for his development to have another half season of development football with them or whether another loan, likely at a lower level, would be better.

[tetsujin1979]

Recalled from his loan spell
https://www.sufc.co.uk/news/2025/january/02/curtis-returns/

[CraftyToePoke]

Recalled from his loan spell
https://www.sufc.co.uk/news/2025/january/02/curtis-returns/

Already posted and discussed tets.