Alex Murphy D Bolton (loan from Newcastle) b.2004

[tetsujin1979]

Named as a substitute this evening for Newcastle
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[SkStu]

I know he had a great preseason but this is a great achievement for a 19 year old in that set up. Said it before but I’d love to see him get a call up and a closer look.

[pineapple stu]

I think we only have one left-back in the squad this month (Manning). We've Coleman (35 now), Liam Scales (but I think he's much better in the centre of defence), Enda Stevens (hitting a bit of form again at club level I think, but he's 33), Callum O'Dowda (but he's not a wing-back) and James McClean (for the New Zealand tie only)

He's not in the U21s this month; not sure why that is?

But anyway, we've so few alternatives that, yeah, he may well be worth a call. I think making the bench during the season is better than playing a couple of pre-season games. Wouldn't be expecting Ferguson-style miracles, but beggars can't be choosers

[JR89]

I know he had a great preseason but this is a great achievement for a 19 year old in that set up. Said it before but I’d love to see him get a call up and a closer look.

Both Burn and Targett are both out for the next three months so might make a few more squads between now and then. Dummett on the would likely be second choice LB atm but also the only other CB on the bench for them with Botman also injured.





He's not in the U21s this month; not sure why that is?

Not sure if Tayo was injured as this is his first squad of the season. Crawford gave him a start last year in one game and he was very good in possibly the best performance we've seen from a Crawford team in the 3-1 win over Montenegro. Style wise he's more suited to the WB role than Murphy being more athletic and quicker.

Then you've also got Anselmo Garcia whose been playing LB regularly this season.

[joey B]

Hall off at half time and replaced by Livaramento who’s primarily a right back but can play left back,unfortunately for Murphy Newcastle have plenty of full backs who can play either side …..

[liamoo11]

Has he been injured for the last few months since preseason as I haven't noticed him in Newcastle under 21s?

[joey B]

Debut for him against Chelsea…

[Buckett]

He played around 10 minutes including stoppage time. They were winning 4-1 against 10 men when he came on so he didn't have much to do but looked very comfortable with the few touches and passes that he got. I watched him coming through at Galway Utd, he has huge potential and seems very level headed so hopefully this is the first of many games at the top top level.

[John83]

It's difficult to get excited about a player at a petro-dollar infused club, as they'll probably sell him and buy three full-backs for the GDP of Brighton (the city, not the club), but if he can hold his own there fair dues to him! It's too long since we've had a player at an elite club.

[JR89]

It's difficult to get excited about a player at a petro-dollar infused club, as they'll probably sell him and buy three full-backs for the GDP of Brighton (the city, not the club), but if he can hold his own there fair dues to him! It's too long since we've had a player at an elite club.

If Newcastle are gonna be playing European football regularly now they'll need homegrown players so they'll have to develop some youngsters as club trained.

They hadn't enough home grown players to fill the squad so could only name a 23 man squad for the A list with Dummett, Elliott Anderson, and Longstaff as club trained players. Left footed CBs don't grow on trees and with them needing to develop players it hopefully points towards him making it at Newcastle.

[nigel-harps1954]

If Newcastle are gonna be playing European football regularly now they'll need homegrown players so they'll have to develop some youngsters as club trained.

They hadn't enough home grown players to fill the squad so could only name a 23 man squad for the A list with Dummett, Elliott Anderson, and Longstaff as club trained players. Left footed CBs don't grow on trees and with them needing to develop players it hopefully points towards him making it at Newcastle.

I might be wrong, but I don't think he qualifies as home grown, since he only joined them last year

[Jolly Red Giant]

I might be wrong, but I don't think he qualifies as home grown, since he only joined them last year
You are correct - he has to have three years with the club or another club in the same national association.

[JR89]

Luke Shaw joined United at 18, and think it was a month before his 19th birthday and became club trained after a few years there. Always assumed a player had to join the club before his 18th birthday and then spend three years for that to happen.

So in three years Murphy should count as a club trained player for Newcastle. Not sure of what other young players are on the fringes of the first team squad but given their lack of homegrown players they'll hopefully look after him.

[Eirambler]

I think it's something like three years in England by age 21. So, having joined at 18, he should count as home grown by 2025.

Would imagine, unless Newcastle see him as developing way ahead of schedule, that a loan out would be his next move. Maybe League 1 if it is to happen in January, or he might have progressed enough by next summer to go to a Championship team.

[JR89]

Think in his three years needed to be classed as homegrown and more so club trained he can only go on loan for one season. So Newcastle could wait to find him a full season long loan next summer, or get him a half a season loan this January and another half season next January.

[tetsujin1979]

There's lazy, there's wrong, and then there's what Aidan Fitzmaurice wrote in this article about Murphy's debut
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[elatedscum]

There's lazy, there's wrong, and then there's what Aidan Fitzmaurice wrote in this article about Murphy's debut
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Only the second Galway teen to play in the premier league in recent seasons

[Buckett]

He also says he's the fourth Galwegian to play in the top flight, it's sixth, Eamonn Deacy was a league winner with Aston Villa and Aaron Connolly is also from Galway. Fitzmaurice only listed Greg Cunningham, Rory Ginty and Tony Folan.

[tetsujin1979]

Only the second Galway teen to play in the premier league in recent seasons
True, but he says "second Irish teen" in the article, not second Galway teen


He also says he's the fourth Galwegian to play in the top flight, it's sixth, Eamonn Deacy was a league winner with Aston Villa and Aaron Connolly is also from Galway. Fitzmaurice only listed Greg Cunningham, Rory Ginty and Tony Folan.
Well spotted! I should have picked up on Connolly when I included him in the list of teens!
Found these two pages on wikipedia, Fitzmaurice's list is also missing Eamonn Dolan, who turned out for West Ham in the First Division in the late 80's and managed a single game for Reading in the Premier League in a caretaker role
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Association_footballers_from_Galway_(city )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Association_footballers_from_County_Galwa y

[JR89]

True, but he says "second Irish teen" in the article, not second Galway teen


Plus he adds aside from Ferguson. So he definitely meant Irish teen and wasn't a mistake which should have said second Galway teen.

[Eirambler]

The Galwegians have officially disowned Connolly it seems.

To be honest at this point when reading an Irish football "statistic" in an Irish paper it's probably more accurate to just assume that it's wrong, such is the standard of our football media.

[CSAD]

There's lazy, there's wrong, and then there's what Aidan Fitzmaurice wrote in this article about Murphy's debut
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It's to be expected to be fair, Irish soccer journalism is about having a whinge nowadays rather than actually reporting something factually correct.

[elatedscum]

It's to be expected to be fair, Irish soccer journalism is about having a whinge nowadays rather than actually reporting something factually correct.

Bring back Liam Mackey and Con Houlihan

[Trequartista20]

Named among the substitutes again today against Spurs.

[Buckett]

Today is the fifth League game in a row that Murphy has been on the bench, still just the one appearance, against Chelsea.

[Eirambler]

Comes on for his second Premier League appearance.

Looks to have given away a penalty but is saved by VAR.

[tetsujin1979]

New contract for Murphy at Newcastle
https://www.newcastleunited.com/news/latest-news/alex-murphy-signs-new-long-term-contract/

[JR89]

So by my understanding Newcastle will need Murphy to spend another season with the club for him to be classed as a club trained player otherwise he'll only be classed as association trained if they send him on loan to a team in England.

A "club-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.

An "association-trained player" is a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which the player turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which the player turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, has been registered with a club or with other clubs affiliated to the same association as that of his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons (i.e. a period starting with the first official match of the relevant national championship and ending with the last official match of that relevant national championship) or of 36 months. In the context of this paragraph, the season immediately preceding a player’s 15th birthday may be counted if his birthday is after the last match of the relevant national championship but before or on 30 June (winter championships) or 31 December (summer championships), and the season immediately following his 21st birthday may be counted if his birthday is on or after 1 July (winter championships) or 1 January (summer championships) but before the first match of the relevant national championship.

[Eminence Grise]

I don't think a loan disconnects a player's service with a club so that he isn't considered club-trained. Does it?

[Eirambler]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

[JR89]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

Well that's another thing they can thank Brexit for.

[elatedscum]

I think it's OK for them to go on loan. Otherwise no Irish player who goes over at 18 could go on loan until they're 21.

My understanding is:

1) for premier league rules it doesn’t make any difference, so long as the player stays within England cause they need 3 years of registration within England. Teams require 8 homegrown players for that and Murphy would be fine to go on loan in England and still be a homegrown player. There’s 17 non-homegrown slots.

2) for uefa rules for champions league, Europa league etc, you need 3 full seasons (they don’t need to be continuous) between the age of 15 and 21 signed to a club to be homegrown. There are 4 slots for homegrown players and 4 slots for association players and 17 other slots too.

So because Murphy signed at 18, he therefore has to stay for the 3 full seasons to be eligible. So for Murphy that’s 22/23, 23/24, 24/25. As far as I’m aware, he could sign on loan for one season though, cause the 25/26 season is his last youth season so to speak. So it’s 3 of his 4 first seasons.

It can be worse for a player like Sam Curtis who turns 18 after the September window and before the January transfer window cause essentially this first season doesn’t count for uefa cause it’s not a complete season. So then the following three seasons are all essential (because it goes by year of birth). So had Sam Curtis signed for Newcastle in January, he’d be forced to play 3.5 years at Newcastle without a loan to qualify for homegrown status.

One other factor is, to qualify as an underage player in Europe, you need to have been playing continuously for 2 years at the club (not necessarily full seasons). This is just in Europe. For premier league, it’s purely based on DOB.

So in Murphy’s case, he wasn’t eligible to play champions league as a youth player this season. However he will be next season. In a theoretical Sam Curtis situation, the player could sign January and in his first full season he’s ineligible or needs to be registered as one of the 17 senior non-homegrown players. Start of his third season, same situation but if they get to the knockout stages then in January he can be added to the B List for youth players.

If you’re a club with European aspirations, generally those 4 homegrown slots are really valuable. And the association spots much less so cause there’s a much larger pool to choose from if you’re short a player. If you can get up to 6 or 7 homegrown players, you’re in great nick cause the spare ones count as association players and it means you can sell one if you want to without worrying about the consequences.

Part of the reason, Liverpool have always been so reticent to lose Kelleher is they were always short of homegrown players and losing him would essentially mean playing with one less squad player (they currently have just 3 in Kelleher, Alexander-Arnold and Jones and the next realistic squad player to graduate are in 25/26 season, when all of Bradley, Elliott and Quansah will become homegrown).

It’s the one drawback of signing for a top 12 club is they’re planning for these situations. Think it was also why Troy Parrott wasn’t let out in January one time for his first loan because he needed the full season to be a homegrown player for Spurs. Obviously ultimately he turned out not to be good enough that they’d want him to be homegrown - but ultimately it’s a game of numbers and the more homegrown players you create, the more likely you’ll have enough good enough to fill your quota

[JR89]

Also Newcastle could only register 23 players on their A list this season given their lack of club trained players. Now that Murphy qualifies for the B list it's likely another reason he stays around next season.

If elatedscum is correct and he's got two more season's to reach his 36months then can see Newcastle keeping him for the first half of next season if they qualify for Europa or Conference league. Then assess things in January.

[Trequartista20]

On the bench for Newcastle today.

Linked with a loan move to the Championship, with Portsmouth and Oxford Utd said to be interested, but Newcastle's failure to bring in defensive reinforcements unfortunately means he stays on as cover.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-still-in-market-for-20m-deadline-day-deal-to-end-frustrating-summer-3253083

[tetsujin1979]

Linked with a loan deal to Bolton

[Eirambler]

Top end of League 1 - seems a sensible first loan move as he hasn't played regular first team football for two and a half years now. Hopefully it doesn't have any negative implications for him in terms of the convoluted homegrown player rules discussed further up the page.

[elatedscum]

Top end of League 1 - seems a sensible first loan move as he hasn't played regular first team football for two and a half years now. Hopefully it doesn't have any negative implications for him in terms of the convoluted homegrown player rules discussed further up the page.

I found clarification on this around August time (it was something to do with the fact he's born after June 1st and before September 1st, there's some except - I can't remember the exact details) . Ultimately, he needs to stay for the entire season in either this season or next season to be eligible. I do think he'd probably be better getting a full season loan next season rather than 3 month this season and nothing next season.

I guess, it's possible that Newcastle have decided they no longer care if he's homegrown cause they think he won't be good enough and have abandoned that idea. Or they've decided his need for a loan is so great that they're willing to give him one now and assess the situation in summer and either give up on him or integrate him into the side then for 25/26.

[Eirambler]

This is a real problem with players going over at 18 instead of 16. When they were going at 16 that element could be sorted by their 19th birthday and then they could freely go on loan.

[Eirambler]

Bolton manager sacked three days after he signed there.

[tetsujin1979]

Unused sub last night
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