€500 fine for St Pats. why bother

[Pablo]

What a joke. may as well give rock throwers a free reign now.

Saints hit with fine for Cork incident


August 18, 2005

Premier Division club St Patrick’s Athletic have been fined after an incident during their meeting with eircom League leaders Cork City last month which left a supporter requiring stitches.

A stone was thrown into the Cork support at the end of the July 31st encounter, resulting in a Cork fan sustaining serious facial injuries.

The incident was reported in the match delegate’s report and came up for discussion at the recent meeting of the FAI Disciplinary Commission.

However, a €500 fine will be regarded as lenient by Cork fans, given the seriousness of the situation at Richmond Park.

[BohDiddley]

I suppose we'll all just have to toe the Cork line on this, given that the last thread on this topic was locked when the rest of the country dared venture a different opinion. ;)
Or has glasnost broken out in the real capital?

[A face]

Or has glasnost broken out in the real capital?


Ha ha !!! :p .... very good !!

[Roverstillidie]

did c awk ban the 'fans' who kicked 7 shades of s hite out of that youngfella in the end? didnt think so.

exactly what did you expect to happen to pats?

[bluemovie]

What were Cork fined when Dan Connor was hit by a bottle from the Shed in April? €500?

[Dodge]

What were Cork fined when Dan Connor was hit by a bottle from the Shed in April? €500?
Exactly that.... "and warned as to their future conduct"

[Drumcondra Red]

And the Cork fan who decided to throw a few digs at a shels fan inside the ground last week...

[tiktok]

What were Cork fined when Dan Connor was hit by a bottle from the Shed in April? €500?

It was €200.

I think, given the standard of fines given out to clubs for similar incidents that the amount here isn't a surprise at all.

[tiktok]

And the Cork fan who decided to throw a few digs at a shels fan inside the ground last week...

What? Heard nothing about that!

[wws]

500 quid is an awful lot of money if ure scrimping to pay a wage bill - we should a just thrown the gards a couple of hundred and they might have spared ONE of irelands finest to police the game in the first place!

[Drumcondra Red]

Not a major incident just a Corky decided to throw a couple of digs at one of our lads, thats all, but just pointing it out to show that we all have our troublemakers and the attitude coming from people when it happens against them is laughable, esp when it happens all the time!!!

[Pablo]

What were Cork fined when Dan Connor was hit by a bottle from the Shed in April? €500?

not that i'm condoning it but he didnt actually get hit by it

[Pablo]

and that wasn't a did at Pats. every club should be punished heavily for this behaiour. they might try to prevent a repeat of those scenes?????

[Colm]

And the Cork fan who decided to throw a few digs at a shels fan inside the ground last week...

Is that the same City fan who ended up getting a smack to the back of the head from a Shels fan who had a chain wrapped around his fist or is it a different incident??

But sure hey it's all the City fans fault as usual. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



As for the fine, seems fairly standard. No point in trying to cripple clubs who are already struggling to survive just because there's a little bit of hassle at a match.

[OneRedArmy]

and that wasn't a did at Pats. every club should be punished heavily for this behaiour. they might try to prevent a repeat of those scenes?????

I think this is the point, if the League don't clamp down there is no incentive to stop this kind of activity, which is getting a bit too commonplace.

But that would require some kind of pro-activity...........

[Drumcondra Red]

Is that the same City fan who ended up getting a smack to the back of the head from a Shels fan who had a chain wrapped around his fist or is it a different incident??

But sure hey it's all the City fans fault as usual. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



As for the fine, seems fairly standard. No point in trying to cripple clubs who are already struggling to survive just because there's a little bit of hassle at a match.
Thats the one alright, but it was his own fault for going up and throwing digs, nothing would have happened otherwise! And jftr it wasn't to the back of the head!

[Colm]

Thats the one alright, but it was his own fault for going up and throwing digs, nothing would have happened otherwise!

Wasn't there so don't know who's fault it was tbh. However, I've got to ask are Shels fans not capable of using their fists without wrapping a fcuking chain around their knuckles??!!

[bohs til i die]

its a bit rich listening to Cork fans whinging about a fine given to Pats when the Cork stewards tried to start trouble with Bohs fans 5 weeks ago.

[Anto McC]

Wasn't there so don't know who's fault it was tbh. However, I've got to ask are Shels fans not capable of using their fists without wrapping a fcuking chain around their knuckles??!!

The chain was attached to a drum,he was taking it apart when the incident happened the Shels lad involved was only about 17 and is not a trouble maker,the whole incident is wrong no matter who is at fault

[Dodge]

I think this is the point, if the League don't clamp down there is no incentive to stop this kind of activity, which is getting a bit too commonplace.

But what can the clubs really do? Serious question. Should the clubs be held responsible for the actions of ONE idiot

[Colm]

its a bit rich listening to Cork fans whinging about a fine given to Pats when the Cork stewards tried to start trouble with Bohs fans 5 weeks ago.

There are plenty of us who agree with you about some of our stewards btid. We've had problems with a few of them ourselves, a lot of them are fair enough but there are a few who seem to think it's in their job description to start fights with the fans whether they are City fans or away fans.
In fairness, I think they've moved these clowns away from the Shed though as it was only a matter of time until they caused hassle. When the Ollie Byrne banner was raised in the Shed the other night the stewards were grand, a few moths ago they'd have gone mental.

[bigmac]

not that i'm condoning it but he didnt actually get hit by it


So it's alright to throw stuff if you don't manage to hit anyone? We've had threads like this time and again, and the only thing to come out of it is that none of the clubs are willing to take a serious stand against behaviour like this and the league washes its hands of it by handing out meaningless fines and useless warnings. The only good thing to happen with regards to incidents like this has been where a fan was banned from home games for behaviour at an away game (was it Galway, can't remember).

At the end of the day, unless the EL puts in place a serious deterrent that forces clubs to deal with these issues, we are constantly going to have situations such as this. What's the betting that in a few weeks we'll have a similar thread expressing outrage at whatever non-punishment is dished out over the incident in Drogheda.

[Colm]

So it's alright to throw stuff if you don't manage to hit anyone?

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

[Dodge]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.
But its OK for Cork fans to say what they like to pats fans?!?

[bigmac]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.


And that would be alright would it? What did he do to the City fans that was so terrible? Was it worse than throwing a bottle into the crowd?

There seems to be a tendency amongst fans to take the high road if a player returns some of the abuse that comes his way during a game. If someone sticks two fingers up at the crowd (a la recent Shels/Drogs) then he should be severely punished because nobody in the crowd would dream of doing that towards a player. I'm no Dan Connor fan, believe me, but that sort of empty bravado talk is exactly the problem that clubs are trying to deal with.

[ColinR]

In Dan Connor's case he was a lucky boy that he only got a few missiles thrown at him (none of which landed anywhere near him). Considering the way he's behaved in games against CIty and the way he's behaved towards City fans, he's lucky the entire Shed didn't invaded the pitch and kick his scumbag head in.

as a drogs fan , i wish we didn't have dan connor, but some cork fans here are unreal. he got stitches after that match - either it was a cork player that caused it or (as tv PROVED) the bottle that hit him. stop the blatent lying about it..

[Colm]

But its OK for Cork fans to say what they like to pats fans?!?

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge. :confused:



he got stitches after that match - either it was a cork player that caused it or (as tv PROVED) the bottle that hit him. stop the blatent lying about it..

The bottle did NOT hit him, I know that for a fact. The only possible way he could have got cut is if he fell or dived on one of the pieces of broken glass afterwards. Although, I reckon it was all a big show on his part.... anyone in the Shed will have seen him glance up at the crowd with a sneaky grin before he threw himself down.

[Slash/ED]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.

[ColinR]

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge. :confused:




The bottle did NOT hit him, I know that for a fact. The only possible way he could have got cut is if he fell or dived on one of the pieces of broken glass afterwards. Although, I reckon it was all a big show on his part.... anyone in the Shed will have seen him glance up at the crowd with a sneaky grin before he threw himself down.

if you watched tv3 - you would have seen them show the incident, and you could clearly see it HIT him. i watched about 10 times - just to satisfy myself that he was hit, and fabio was definately fouled for the penalty in the same game. he didn't look towards the shed before he went down either.

why do you have to make up lies about this????? :rolleyes:

[OneRedArmy]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.

No Slash, apparently he deserved it, Colm said so.

In fact, he was lucky he wasn't killed by a baying mob of Corkians.

According to Colm. He would have deserved that too.

Colm you condoned the Cork fans retaliation against Pats and you've now condoned bottle throwing.

Christ almighty, would you ever grow up, stop defending loutish behaviour and accept that followers of your club can actually do something wrong once in a while.

If this is your attitude I sincerely hope you won't be attending on Friday night at the Brandywell, as there is no place in football for apologists like you.

[Colm]

No Slash, apparently he deserved it, Colm said so.

In fact, he was lucky he wasn't killed by a baying mob of Corkians.

According to Colm. He would have deserved that too.

Colm you condoned the Cork fans retaliation against Pats and you've now condoned bottle throwing.

Christ almighty, would you ever grow up, stop defending loutish behaviour and accept that followers of your club can actually do something wrong once in a while.

If this is your attitude I sincerely hope you won't be attending on Friday night at the Brandywell, as there is no place in football for apologists like you.

I certainly will be in the Brandywell tomorrow night. Really looking forward to it now, always have a good laugh with the Derry fans. Might even see you in the Oakgrove beforehand. :)

I think you're missing the point I was making about Dan Connor. I'm not condoning the bottle throwing etc but what I'm saying is that if you carry on like that it's only natural that people will react. I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me and a few slaps. If a fan behaved like Connor (or Ollie Byrne for that matter) does they'd be thrown out of the ground, surely these rules should apply to them aswell. If Connor was properly punished, he's cop on and not give people a platform to throw stuff at him.

[Dodge]

You've lost me there I'm afraid Dodge. :confused:
OK.... Why was it OK for Cork fans to throw a bottle at Dan Connor? is it because he goaded you?


I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me But when it happens on a Sunday afternoon in Inchicore you come here spouting ****e....

HAve I lost you again?

[A face]

Just wondering ... how many of those incidents were reported to the Gardas ??

[OneRedArmy]

Just wondering ... how many of those incidents were reported to the Gardas ??
Fair point. Whilst not absolving Pats from blame, or the scumbags from both clubs, I have some sympathy for Pats if they requested Gardai to police the game & they didn't show.

Re the guards in general, they are always at the main stand/burdocks side of Tolka yet never seem to see or get involved in any of the kerfuffle that goes on.

If you reported stuff they didn't see, I reckon without independent witnesses it wouldn't go anywhere.

If the Pats rock thrower isn't being dealt with by the guards, then a life ban is the least the club should do.

[Dodge]

AFAIK well its very hard to pinpoint who it was. Remember this happended with 6/10 minutes to go as a trickle of fans started to leave. Of course whoever know who it is should report it but if no one reports who it was, what can they do?

[pete]

Fines for clubs should be based on

a) what actions the club did to prevent the incident from happening.
b) what actiosn the club have put in place to ensure cannot happen again.

A big difference between club leaves rocks inside the stadium & rock thrown from outside a ground. Similar for crowd segregation etc...

You could also increase the fines & have a portion suspended assuming club improves its efforts & no more indicents that season...

[bigmac]

I think you're missing the point I was making about Dan Connor. I'm not condoning the bottle throwing etc but what I'm saying is that if you carry on like that it's only natural that people will react. I mean if I behaved like that and goaded a big group of lads in the middle of Cork or Dublin on a Saturday night, I couldn't really be surprised if I got stuff thrown at me and a few slaps. If a fan behaved like Connor (or Ollie Byrne for that matter) does they'd be thrown out of the ground, surely these rules should apply to them aswell. If Connor was properly punished, he's cop on and not give people a platform to throw stuff at him.


So what would you think if Dan Connor threw a bottle into the Shed because of the abuse he was getting from them? Same situation only roles reversed. Would you be saying that the fans abusing the players were lucky that the players didn't get together and kick the shlt out of them afterwards? If Dan Connor threw a bottle into the crowd he'd be banned for life (or should be) therefore as you yourself say,

surely these rules should apply to them aswell
so the fan throwing the bottle should also be banned from the Cross for life.

[bigmac]

Fines for clubs should be based on

a) what actions the club did to prevent the incident from happening.
b) what actiosn the club have put in place to ensure cannot happen again.

A big difference between club leaves rocks inside the stadium & rock thrown from outside a ground. Similar for crowd segregation etc...

You could also increase the fines & have a portion suspended assuming club improves its efforts & no more indicents that season...


some excellent ideas there pete. if clubs can isolate and effectively deal with someone who throws a missile then they should be praised for it, not fined. at the moment though the situation is one where the clubs say "it's not our fault, we can't control what our fans do" and the EL glibly accepts this and passes the blame on to the stewarding etc.. Bottom line, the clubs should be responsible for what goes on in their grounds.

[tiktok]

None of that matters a jot, a feckin glass bottle was thrown at him. If it hit or not is of no importance.
I agree. There is no justification for throwing a glass bottle at any player, that incident was a disgrace, but the club deserved a fine because some drunk moron managed to get a glass bottle of Vodka in to start with. The guy who threw the bottle should be banned for life from the cross, unfortunately, no one who would be willing to come forward actually saw who did it.


Fair point. Whilst not absolving Pats from blame, or the scumbags from both clubs, I have some sympathy for Pats if they requested Gardai to police the game & they didn't show.
I spoke with the head of security after the incident and he mentioned the no-show by the guards, not acceptable at all.


If the Pats rock thrower isn't being dealt with by the guards, then a life ban is the least the club should do.
No witness came forward as far as I know, so neither the guards or the club can do anything.

[Peadar]

500 quid is an awful lot of money if ure scrimping to pay a wage bill


I think that has to be remembered when we look at fines.
We're not in a mega rich league and fines would have to be the same for all clubs. If we go down the route of big fines you'll soon see clubs struggling to pay security costs and players wages.
Is that what we really want?

I doubt anyone at St. Patrick's Athletic wanted to see patrons injured, yet they must pick up the cost of a mindless act by some idot.

Incident noted, action taken, move on.

[dubman]

Hello all every body, hows it al hanging.

Seeing as Pat's got HIT with a 500 euro fine. I think every club needs to sort out this problem fast. How are we going to get kids and family to games when this crap is going on. Every team have a problem can yo all stop blaming Shams scum or Pats or what ever. Why are they not getting life bans for fighting

[BohDiddley]

I think that has to be remembered when we look at fines.
We're not in a mega rich league and fines would have to be the same for all clubs. If we go down the route of big fines you'll soon see clubs struggling to pay security costs and players wages.
Is that what we really want?

I doubt anyone at St. Patrick's Athletic wanted to see patrons injured, yet they must pick up the cost of a mindless act by some idot.

Incident noted, action taken, move on.
That's a fair point. But it's not as if clubs are being fined every week. Most chairmen could pay a one-off like that out of their walking around money.
I think a possible solution is that clubs are ordered to take action, e.g. a ban, against offenders, or, if they plead that they do not know the identity of the offenders, to show in concrete terms how they plan to avoid a repeat. Then, if they fail to do that, they are hit with a significant fine.
That way, we are more likely to achieve the result we want, without financially hurting clubs, unless they are really asking for it.

[wws]

I think that has to be remembered when we look at fines.
We're not in a mega rich league and fines would have to be the same for all clubs. If we go down the route of big fines you'll soon see clubs struggling to pay security costs and players wages.
Is that what we really want?

I doubt anyone at St. Patrick's Athletic wanted to see patrons injured, yet they must pick up the cost of a mindless act by some idot.

Incident noted, action taken, move on.


well said Peadar, no one is píssed off with that stone throwing more than me but in a crowd of 1300 people with no police and at the end of a game ONE person walking out of the ground (and therefore away from any security IN the ground) decides to lob a stone into a crowd - what on earth can you do to prevent that?? Petes point re loose stones and chippings is only valid if pats were in a position to convert that end (which is an actual building site) into an actual stand - they're not because of repeated stalling on our so called grant!

The fact that there was no gards there really is the worst part of this whole affair - especially when you consider the thousands that are spent on gards/motorbikes/horses/helicopters when shamrock rovers play there.......and nothing ever happens!

[ThatGuy]

Hello all every body, hows it al hanging.

Seeing as Pat's got HIT with a 500 euro fine. I think every club needs to sort out this problem fast. How are we going to get kids and family to games when this crap is going on. Every team have a problem can yo all stop blaming Shams scum or Pats or what ever. Why are they not getting life bans for fighting
What crap is going on? What happened in Inchicore was an isolated incident, and in comparison to other legaues around the world, including the Premiership, the "hooligan" problem in Ireland is virtually non-existent. Ban the trouble makers certainly, but you are blowing things completely out of proportion.

[OneRedArmy]

What crap is going on? What happened in Inchicore was an isolated incident, and in comparison to other legaues around the world, including the Premiership, the "hooligan" problem in Ireland is virtually non-existent. Ban the trouble makers certainly, but you are blowing things completely out of proportion.
Disagree. You're much safer inside the stadium in the UK, thats one of the reasons why families have returned to football (the other reasons are irrelevant for the purposes of this debate).

Granted that means its just pushed the trouble away from the grounds but its much easier to avoid than it used to be.

Trouble is still rare in the EL, but society in general is becomming more violent and I think the number of occurences in the League is mirroring this.

[fosterdollar]

It's a fair point being made if you're an ordinary joe soap (not the limerick guy here :D ) reading the tripe that the various national rags perpetuate. I know people who, despite knowing basically sweet fanny about eL generally, reckon Rovers games are weally scaywy and there's murder in the stands.. :rolleyes: This all from reading said sh!te in papers. Double :rolleyes:

[Dublin 5 Hoop]

My car was very badly damaged in an attempted theft last year after a cup victory against Rovers in Inchicore.

A touch of the Ollie syndrome about this are you implying that a rovers fan did this. I dont see that your car being damaged in an attempted theift has anythig to do with violence at football matches. :rolleyes:

[TheOwl]

I must say I have definitely noticed an upswing in the tension surrounding the Dublin derbies in particular, in recent years.

For a long time Shels never really seemed to have a problem akin to other clubs, but that’s not really the case anymore, I think it is because some of Shels young support from a few years ago have grown up into a Dutch Gold Brigade of knacker drinking idiots.

Mention the “DGB” to any decent Shels fan and watch them squirm with embarrassment.

[manic da hoop]

We don't live in a perfect world people, and the idea that whatever incidents that may occur within or close to a League of Ireland venue are symptomatic of the modern game is rediculous. The kind of anti-social carry on we talk of is part and parcel of our everyday lives I'm afraid, and simply slapping a fine on any given club every time a minor incident occurs won't solve anything. If we really want to talk about trouble at football (in this country) ask any older supporter of what matches were like in the seventies - Oriel Park, Kilcohan Park and the notorious Marketsfield in Limerick were witness to events that wouldn't happen in a million years now.

And would all Longford fans please quit it with all the ridiculous talk of apparant acts of rape and pillage by Rovers fans every time we visit the midlands. Anyone who didn't know better would easily forge an image of Cromwell in Drogheda from your discriptions. More than anything else you're just embarrassing yourselves.

[wws]

My car was very badly damaged in an attempted theft last year after a cup victory against Rovers in Inchicore.


sorry to hear that but that has nothing to do with EL clubs - they dont police society in or outside grounds. As a matter of interest where did you park it?