Infraction discussion

[SkStu]

My Post got deleted yesterday but Foot.ie has the feeling of an echo chamber for some members. All dissenters vilified like under Pinochets Chile.

That's not true Paul. You've been a long time dissenter/contrarian on many fronts over the last 20 years and its always been tolerated and fine. The tone of the forum has changed for the worse over the last year, led by a handful of posters with strong opinions and zero flexibility or openness to alternative views (which i think has emboldened you even more tbh). Almost everything has become a referendum on Kenny and it is weird. We've had bad managers and differences of opinion before on these types of issues so its never really been an echo-chamber but, this time, it has become really wearing and quite a few regular, valued posters have disappeared or just dont contribute as much as they used to. Which I just think is a bit of a shame.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

^ Looks like Paul O'Shea is getting cancelled as the kids say. Is there any truth in what he's saying? Threats of infractions and bannings do seem to be only for certain posters. It would be a shame to have someone kicked off the forum for having a differing opinion. Paul O'Shea seems like a decent poster.

[Stuttgart88]

In my experience nobody gets infractions for opinions, only for trolling.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Maybe it was in the deleted posts but I haven't seen any trolling from Paul O'Shea. Maybe it goes by reported posts? It would be sad if that was the case. Are people reporting posts on this forum?

[tetsujin1979]

Maybe it was in the deleted posts but I haven't seen any trolling from Paul O'Shea. Maybe it goes by reported posts? It would be sad if that was the case. Are people reporting posts on this forum?
Paul has a long history of it, as Stu said it was broadly tolerated but recently he crossed a line, and was punished for it. He's on a break from the forum now.
There's a report link on every post - https://foot.ie/images/buttons/report-40b.png

[tetsujin1979]

Off topic posts moved from the Euro 2024 Qualification Group B thread

[dahamsta]

The user in question was automatically suspended via infractions. We'll decide over the next few days whether to make it permanent, or give a final warning.

Speaking generally, there is a relatively recent (1-2 years) problem here with users that post reams of mildly annoying comments, and it can genuinely be hard to tell with some of them in the current environment if they're just thick, or they actually believe what they're saying, or they're "smart" trolls; and the word smart is used advisedly there, anyone that spends that much time trolling is not the kind of smart that I admire.

This, combined with the increasing binary nature of people's mindsets these days, driven by politics, media (TV and radio) and The Media (news and opinion) is increasingly disruptive on communities, although I'd argue that relatively unfiltered, un-algorithmed communities like Foot.ie suffer less from it than popular social media. I think it anything, people should be revolving back to sites like this, but then I would say that, wouldn't I.

However the upshot is that they are here, and they are disruptive, and while we do try to deal with them, to be perfectly frank you're not helping yourselves with how you deal with them. You engage with them, which is giving them exactly what they want, whether they're trolls or not. You don't report them because you couldn't be arsed.

I'm not disclaiming responsibility here, I recognise it as my problem too, however if you want to actually dispense with this problem, you need to take an active part. If they're not adding anything to the discussion, ignore their posts. If they rile you up, be the bigger person and don't respond -- I mean seriously, it's fundamental sticks-and-stones. If you find it hard to resist, add them to your ignore list (https://foot.ie/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_us ers), it's not difficult. And if it's clearly trolling, report it, again it's not hard.

[Kingdom]

It's an internet discussion board. People disagree on things, have different points of view etc. Not everything has to be a heated argument. Some people seem to take others having an opposing view personally.

This forum has been absolutely brilliant. For years. In 20 years, there's been all sorts. Fellas who were mods here that the oldies loved, who've passed away. Its actually more than an Internet discussion forum. This is going to be overstated, exaggerated whatever you'll have yourself, but all the good work that YBIG have done on the supporting side has in it's genesis, posters who posted here, made friends from this forum and went away and took it into real life. That is more than a discussion forum. And in a society (ireland) where so many arseholes haven't a clue because they are so obsessed by supporting Liverpool or United without actually contributing to football, the discussion and quality of that discussion here is valued because of the experiences of the posters.


Some were saying they don't want to post anymore, there was one fella who came on to put all 'anti Kenny' supporters back in their box. He ended up basically saying 'your mum'.
I just don't get it. Why the bitterness? We all want what's best for Ireland, we just think there's different ways of going about it.

I'll take this one Cotton. That was me.
I've been posting 20 years here. I love(d) foot. I think about previous and current posters (and i Don't put myself in that category) who you'd be delighted to see their insights on screen and think about how much absolute f'cking garbage (nor this one to be fair) gets posted on an almost consistent basis.
On the "your mum" angle. I engaged what I consider to be Wum posting with wummery comments. I don't put people on ignore and rarely report posts, but have felt more likely to doing that than ever before. Because there is no debate with a cohort of people here. There is drudgery. absolute and pure drudgery. No debate, no discussion, no consideration of the other opinion or any assuage of one's own opinion - absolute fanaticism. And that's why "the anti-Kenny" (as you call them) posters are infuriating, as it is reminiscent of the extremism that we see in the media, politics, society: whereby if you appear to concede ground in anyway - even if that just means rehashing or regurgitating absolutes (that aren't absolutes) - that equates to giving in.
That is exhausting from the other side of the coin - and on a site where there has always been an unwritten sense of respect for anyone that goes out of their way to post - it is the equivalent to a red rag to a bull. So on that note...


I understand I might overstate my point sometimes, I apologise for that. I don't mean any harm by it. Like John83 said, put me on ignore if I'm annoying you but don't stop posting or start throwing insults. It's a discussion forum on a topic we all love. Enjoy it.

... That's a comment that you can't just write and have it accepted - you need to demonstrate it.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

This forum has been absolutely brilliant. For years. In 20 years, there's been all sorts. Fellas who were mods here that the oldies loved, who've passed away. Its actually more than an Internet discussion forum. This is going to be overstated, exaggerated whatever you'll have yourself, but all the good work that YBIG have done on the supporting side has in it's genesis, posters who posted here, made friends from this forum and went away and took it into real life. That is more than a discussion forum. And in a society (ireland) where so many arseholes haven't a clue because they are so obsessed by supporting Liverpool or United without actually contributing to football, the discussion and quality of that discussion here is valued because of the experiences of the posters.



I'll take this one Cotton. That was me.
I've been posting 20 years here. I love(d) foot. I think about previous and current posters (and i Don't put myself in that category) who you'd be delighted to see their insights on screen and think about how much absolute f'cking garbage (nor this one to be fair) gets posted on an almost consistent basis.
On the "your mum" angle. I engaged what I consider to be Wum posting with wummery comments. I don't put people on ignore and rarely report posts, but have felt more likely to doing that than ever before. Because there is no debate with a cohort of people here. There is drudgery. absolute and pure drudgery. No debate, no discussion, no consideration of the other opinion or any assuage of one's own opinion - absolute fanaticism. And that's why "the anti-Kenny" (as you call them) posters are infuriating, as it is reminiscent of the extremism that we see in the media, politics, society: whereby if you appear to concede ground in anyway - even if that just means rehashing or regurgitating absolutes (that aren't absolutes) - that equates to giving in.
That is exhausting from the other side of the coin - and on a site where there has always been an unwritten sense of respect for anyone that goes out of their way to post - it is the equivalent to a red rag to a bull. So on that note...



... That's a comment that you can't just write and have it accepted - you need to demonstrate it.

The lack of self awareness from this post is staggering. The fanaticism as you call it comes from the Kennyites and this forum is largely populated by them, even if some are coy about it. I'm able to admit that I overstep the mark on occasion but the extremism comes from those who are Stephen Kenny zealots. It's like a cult. Then you make a holier than thou post like the above when your posts on this topic have been embarrassing.

Some posters on this site have threatened to leave because they don't want to hear it. Others are clearly reporting posts and annoying the mods constantly to put an end to it. Already it looks like 1 poster has been banned. That's crazy stuff. Discussion forums are meant to be about differing opinions and sharing them but if it's easier, then go ahead and ban any negative discussion on Kenny's reign and posters who don't think it's been a great last 3 years. It'll make it easier to moderate anyway and will probably make for a happier forum. I don't mind. This post will probably be deleted but I'll post it anyway.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If negative comments on Stephen Kenny got you banned there would be no-one here. I'd be gone 10 times over.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

If negative comments on Stephen Kenny got you banned there would be no-one here. I'd be gone 10 times over.

Well the person who looks like got banned seems to think it's related. I'm not sure but the reported posts and all the complaints are about 'anti Kenny' comments. They're not exactly welcomed on this board you have to say.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I don't. I've never felt unwelcome to air those opinions, and have.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I don't. I've never felt unwelcome to air those opinions, and have.

That's great but the comments on this thread alone is telling another story about how welcome 'anti Kenny' comments are.

[passinginterest]

It's been said before but the majority of posters here have shown the ability to change their opinions, to see the grey areas and to not take completely polarised and intransigent positions.

There was undoubtedly huge support for Kenny here initially. That support has gone up and down, many posters have crossed to the Kenny out side, most have at least softened their support and would have been understanding if a bit disappointed had he been replaced. For most, I think the final deciding factor is do the players still seem to support the manager, and for the moment that's still yes. There was a suggestion maybe after the Azerbaijan game that some doubts were there, but it feels like the recent camp has put those to bed.

What the polarising Kenny out posters seem unable to accept is that there are grey areas. The squad is in transition. There is a lack of truly top class prospects. There is a generation gap where no players came though so we have 30ish lads and then early 20s and teens with little or nothing in between. The style of play is also in transition, football has changed and we're probably 10 years behind a lot of peers. The generation gap confounds this because the players coming through have been developed playing modern football. Yes it impacted everyone, but there was also a pandemic and incidents like the seats on the plane fiasco hit us hard.

Foot.ie has always been a moderate site, with few extremes and open debates with plenty of room for grey areas. O'Neill and Trapp both got plenty of criticism but also plenty of support and this was one of the last places where people would definitively turn on them. It's the same with Kenny, but there just seems to be an element who refuse to engage with good will or acknowledge any kind of compromise. That just makes debate impossible. I've never blocked a poster, I love to read diverse opinions, but I also like to see people develop positions, take on constructive points and evolve. Where there's no evidence of that it just becomes frustrating, annoying and impossible to engage with.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought we established a few weeks ago that there are no “Kennyites”. There are those who are dead set against him (which is a perfectly valid opinion) and those whose views evolve as the situation evolves. Among the latter are people who’d like him to succeed because they think his ideas are roughly the right ideas.

It’s the dishonest polarisation and victimhood that gets on my wick.

[Stuttgart88]

It's been said before but the majority of posters here have shown the ability to change their opinions, to see the grey areas and to not take completely polarised and intransigent positions.

There was undoubtedly huge support for Kenny here initially. That support has gone up and down, many posters have crossed to the Kenny out side, most have at least softened their support and would have been understanding if a bit disappointed had he been replaced. For most, I think the final deciding factor is do the players still seem to support the manager, and for the moment that's still yes. There was a suggestion maybe after the Azerbaijan game that some doubts were there, but it feels like the recent camp has put those to bed.

What the polarising Kenny out posters seem unable to accept is that there are grey areas. The squad is in transition. There is a lack of truly top class prospects. There is a generation gap where no players came though so we have 30ish lads and then early 20s and teens with little or nothing in between. The style of play is also in transition, football has changed and we're probably 10 years behind a lot of peers. The generation gap confounds this because the players coming through have been developed playing modern football. Yes it impacted everyone, but there was also a pandemic and incidents like the seats on the plane fiasco hit us hard.

Foot.ie has always been a moderate site, with few extremes and open debates with plenty of room for grey areas. O'Neill and Trapp both got plenty of criticism but also plenty of support and this was one of the last places where people would definitively turn on them. It's the same with Kenny, but there just seems to be an element who refuse to engage with good will or acknowledge any kind of compromise. That just makes debate impossible. I've never blocked a poster, I love to read diverse opinions, but I also like to see people develop positions, take on constructive points and evolve. Where there's no evidence of that it just becomes frustrating, annoying and impossible to engage with.Probably the definitive post on the current state of affairs here. Well said.

[Stuttgart88]

Well the person who looks like got banned seems to think it's related. I'm not sure but the reported posts and all the complaints are about 'anti Kenny' comments. They're not exactly welcomed on this board you have to say.The person who got banned thrives on polarisation and misrepresenting others' views. When called on it in the past - presented with clear and obvious evidence - he just disappeared rather than admit he had misrepresented an opinion just to take a dig. SkStu said it well above, his contrarian opinions are perfectly fine, but his dishonest, antagonistic and divisive attitude isn't. I know him personally (many of us do) and he engages in discussion normally, it's only in an anonymous setting (his user name isn't his real name in case you didn't know) that he acts like he does. Draw your own conclusions.

[tetsujin1979]

To clarify Nobody has been banned. Two accounts are currently suspended.
There's been slightly more posts reported than normal, but there's not been a massive spike in numbers

[Eirambler]

I thought we established a few weeks ago that there are no “Kennyites”. There are those who are dead set against him (which is a perfectly valid opinion) and those whose views evolve as the situation evolves. Among the latter are people who’d like him to succeed because they think his ideas are roughly the right ideas.

Those would be the Kennyites in fairness. The ones that want him to succeed because, fair enough, they like his ideas, but their continued support comes in spite of a fairly substantial body of evidence at this point to suggest that he unfortunately isn't capable of taking us where we need to go (i.e. to major tournaments finals).

[Razors left peg]

Again with the Kennyites shyte. Did we have O'Neillies, Trappatoniers, Charltonites? It's like Twitter now where Donald Trump has nicknames for everyone and opinions can never change on anything.

Grow up with the nick name crap

[Stuttgart88]

A bit daft to label such people Kennyites imho.

[Razors left peg]

A bit daft to label such people Kennyites imho.

It's just so childish

[Supreme feet]

There was a lad on here around 2009-ish who hated Trap - the word 'Crapattoni' springs to mind. As well as 'Kevin Kilbad' and 'Paul McShame.' Think I made the mistake of engaging once.

There was much more craic with the lads who fetishized David Connolly and Sean St. Ledger, and wouldn't hear any praise of their selection rivals.

Edit - Tets, you'll have to move this post too. It doesn't make sense now.

[Razors left peg]

Off topic posts moved to thread in the support forum

Was it really off topic to call out the nonsense that has been building up Tets?

[pineapple stu]

Those would be the Kennyites in fairness. The ones that want him to succeed because, fair enough, they like his ideas, but their continued support comes in spite of a fairly substantial body of evidence at this point to suggest that he unfortunately isn't capable of taking us where we need to go (i.e. to major tournaments finals).
I'd like Kenny to succeed because I do think his ideas are roughly the right ones. I'm sure others here are the same.

But it's a bit sweeping to say "their continued support comes in spite of a fairly substantial body of evidence at this point to suggest that he unfortunately isn't capable of taking us where we need to go". That doesn't apply to me for example.

I challenged a poster (Trequartista I think it was) to name some Kennyites here. There was no reply. Who do you think they are? I think the posters who refer to them are engaging in strawman arguments

[Eirambler]

I really don't see the issue in calling supporters of Stephen Kenny "Kennyites". Certainly I - personally - don't mean it in a derogatory way, even if I strongly disagree with the sentiments being expressed.

My own view is that continuing to fully support Stephen Kenny given the issues we have seen during his time in the job requires a sufficient degree of belief in his principles that such a description is not unwarranted.

Whether we like it or not, the man has been in the job long enough now that it's not unreasonable to take a view on whether he is up to it or not. My view is that he isn't, as evidenced by repeated tactical errors which have led to consistently poor results. His poor communication in public also raises further concerns - though I could overlook that if his teams were doing the business on the pitch. Unfortunately they are not.

Others have presumably seen something different to suggest he'll come good.

I suppose we'll know either way in a year's time at the very latest.

[tetsujin1979]

There was a lad on here around 2009-ish who hated Trap - the word 'Crapattoni' springs to mind. As well as 'Kevin Kilbad' and 'Paul McShame.' Think I made the mistake of engaging once.

There was much more craic with the lads who fetishized David Connolly and Sean St. Ledger, and wouldn't hear any praise of their selection rivals.

Edit - Tets, you'll have to move this post too. It doesn't make sense now.
Done


Was it really off topic to call out the nonsense that has been building up Tets?
Well, in the sense that it doesn't really have anything to do with Qualifying Group B, probably. And there's a thread in the support forum about it.

[Razors left peg]

Would it not have been better to move it to the Stephen Kenny thread in that case. I think it's legitimate for a pushback to the stupid labeling of "Kennyites". Unless u remove all posts that use that term I think it's fair that there can be discussion about how silly it is

[pineapple stu]

I don't see the issue with calling them Kennyites either - the problem is that I'm not sure who they are, and no-one can seem to say.

It's taken on a meaning of anyone opposed to Kenny's immediate sacking, tarring and feathering in retaliation for the national disgrace he's caused us. That's not right.

That's why I think there's a lot of frustrating strawmanning going on lately.

[Eirambler]

Presumably we all agree that mypost is a Kennyite. The most extreme example on the forum. Anyone who doesn't agree on that point, well I can't contribute with them further because to disagree with that would be the equivalent of calling Boomshakalaka a Kenny supporter.

In terms of anyone else - it probably depends on their own views of how long they would be willing to support him if results in competitive games don't take a fairly sizeable upswing.

My own view would be that if someone, for instance, believes that he should continue in the post even if we fail to qualify for Euro 2024 (having already fallen well short in both the Euro 2020 playoffs and the World Cup 2022 qualifiers), that would make them a fairly dyed in the wool Kenny Supporter/Kennyite. Because in that situation not only are they supporting him, they're also supporting his continued failure to deliver results in the job.

I suspect though, when we don't qualify for Euro 2024 (because I don't have any confidence that he has what it takes to get us there) there will be plenty on here suggesting he is kept on. And continuing to suggest that calling them a Kennyite, or any phrase that denotes them as a Kenny supporter, is childish or stupid or whatever other put-down suits their position at that time.

[SkStu]

So the only achievement that would see him kept on would be qualifying out of a group with France and the Netherlands? Most would agree that it’s an almost impossible task. No context seems acceptable in how you’ve articulated it ER and that’s way too black and white. There are multiple scenarios that I can see where he’d have earned another contract/campaign (and many where he won’t have) outside of qualification via the group.

I seen mypost mentioned as a Kennyite but if his views are an example of unreasonably extreme pro-Kenny views then there is a larger contingent that similarly holds unreasonably extreme anti-Kenny views.

On a more humorous note, there were a large contingent of Bohs fans who anointed themselves Rodestants when Collins got sacked after winning the double. It still makes me laugh. Some still keep to that particular faith!! :)

[pineapple stu]

Presumably we all agree that mypost is a Kennyite.
I'll agree on mypost. And BOOMers is the other extreme. I think almost everyone else falls into the middle ground, which is why I think the term is bandied about far too often.

I think mypost and BOOMers just lack the ability to engage in discussion and just dictate to you why they're right. That's the problem, not which end of the stick they're holding. That's a problem with any poster on any message board.

[Eirambler]

So the only achievement that would see him kept on would be qualifying out of a group with France and the Netherlands? Most would agree that it’s an almost impossible task. No context seems acceptable in how you’ve articulated it ER and that’s way too black and white. There are multiple scenarios that I can see where he’d have earned another contract/campaign (and many where he won’t have) outside of qualification via the group.

I seen mypost mentioned as a Kennyite but if his views are an example of unreasonably extreme pro-Kenny views then there is a larger contingent that similarly holds unreasonably extreme anti-Kenny views.

On a more humorous note, there were a large contingent of Bohs fans who anointed themselves Rodestants when Collins got sacked after winning the double. It still makes me laugh. Some still keep to that particular faith!! :)

You've got to bear in mind though that we're in the group we're in because of Kenny. We're touch and go for the playoffs because of Kenny. He made an absolute mess of the Nations League group and that has brought about both of those situations.

So the grouping with France and the Netherlands can't really be looked at in isolation. We're there because of poor management which left us as third seeds, which left open the possibility that we might get a horror draw. Now it's time to see if he can dig us out of the hole he dropped us in.

Don't get me wrong, if we have a really progressive campaign and narrowly miss out to France and Netherlands then there's probably justification in sticking with him at least into the playoffs if we're there. But, at the same time, if we lose to Greece in June if there really any point persisting with him? We're obviously not going to even challenge in the group if we lose that one, let alone qualify from it.

I never like seeing a manager's future being decided based on one game, but that situation usually comes about because repeated underperformance has led to that situation. So it's not really one game. And that's the case again here.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Lads, Eirambler made a detailed post on his feelings about the French game and what needs to be achieved if Kenny is to survive in the Stephen Kenny thread but he received a childish reply by another poster instead of actually engaging with his post. This is a regular thing on this forum. Kenny supporters throw their toys out of the pram when criticism is sent his way. People threatening to leave the site etc. It's a complete overreaction. People have different opinions. People can be really positive about Kenny and others can disagree with that and vice versa.

[weldoninhio]

^ Looks like Paul O'Shea is getting cancelled as the kids say. Is there any truth in what he's saying? Threats of infractions and bannings do seem to be only for certain posters. It would be a shame to have someone kicked off the forum for having a differing opinion. Paul O'Shea seems like a decent poster.

I got an infraction for calling out a posters lies. He asked me to explain the French managers thinking with his team pick vs Ireland as if I'm good friends with Didier Deschamps. His lie was allowed to remain on the forum, I got an infraction for ignoring him. Certain posters seem to have carte blanche, others get the dirty end of the stick.

[tetsujin1979]

You were asked to provide clarification and ignored it.




if youve been paying attention youd know tchouameni doesnt start much. the other 2 changes were clearly tactical but again you seem knowledgable so im sure you can tell us why both of those changes were made.That's Tchouameni who has started in 17 out of his 23 caps for France? "doesnt start much". Thats as far as I read, was too busy laughing at that nonsense to read the rest.
You should read it, and then answer the question, in the next 24 hours
You've a long history of appearing on the forum around the time of internationals, stirring up needless arguments and disappearing until the next international window.
Other posters are given more leeway because they engage.

[CraftyToePoke]

Thinking about a GoFundMe for a Kennyites Society.
Thinking banners, pom pommed cheer leaders dressed as Riverdance girls. Everywhere he goes, we'd aim to be.

[SkStu]

You've got to bear in mind though that we're in the group we're in because of Kenny. We're touch and go for the playoffs because of Kenny. He made an absolute mess of the Nations League group and that has brought about both of those situations.

So the grouping with France and the Netherlands can't really be looked at in isolation. We're there because of poor management which left us as third seeds, which left open the possibility that we might get a horror draw. Now it's time to see if he can dig us out of the hole he dropped us in.

I think we covered off most of this a week or two ago (see below - i've pulled from the post i made). In that exchange, I provided an analysis of Irelands seeding going back to 2010 and, if i recall correctly, we have been 3rd seeds in all but two campaigns since then (once we were 2nd, once we were 4th). So there was no ground lost. Opportunity missed, perhaps, but that is debatable in a group with Scotland and Ukraine. The likelihood is that we would have been 3rd seeds going into the draw for this campaign and, as such, were always going to be open to the worst possible luck - which is how i'd categorize getting Netherlands and France as your top two seeds. To say he should have been second seeds is a standard that not many other previous managers going back to 2009 rankings have achieved - and those were squads with an objectively stronger playing pool in many cases. In short, he didnt drop us in a hole - he kept us in the same hole to which we have been accustomed for the best part of a generation. Its ridiculously harsh to take that perspective, if you ask me.


Below looks at (L-R) - tournament; seeding/pot; year of assessment; ranking at time of assessment (note that the ranking for Euros is different).

WC 2010 – 3rd pot (2007) – 35
Euro 2012 – 3rd seeds (2009) – 25*
WC 2014 – 3rd seeds (2011) – 33
Euro 2016 – 2nd seeds (2014) – 19*
WC 2018 – 4th seeds (2015) – 42
Euro 2020 – 3rd seeds (2018) – 23*
WC 2022 – 3rd seeds (2020) – 52
Euro 2024 – 3rd seeds (2022) – 26*

[Eminence Grise]

This thread (arguably swathes of this forum) has degenerated from a discussion on what behaviour merits infractions and suspensions, to – what a surprise! – Stephen Kenny. It’s wearying at this stage that a small number of posters are able to drag everything into the mire, and pitiful that any poster’s existence seems predicated on their fanatical beliefs (not opinions – I value those) about somebody else who they’ve never met and never will.

What are they like in real life?

I see the Ukrainians are launching a counter-offensive.


Well, I hope they attack better than Kenny.
A bit like Kenny’s Ireland – it doesn’t matter if they lose, so long as there's signs of progress.


I hear Trump will be charged tomorrow.


I hope Stephen Kenny isn’t sorting his defence.
If he nearly gets off, that’s good as Kenny’s moral victory against the French.


It’s not that glasses are half empty or half full; it’s that some posters are drinking pure poison. It doesn’t take long for any mention of Kenny to remind me of the intransigence of the Trump thread in the Current Affairs section – but at least there were posters there who had a range of interests and a viewpoint there was no indication of one elsewhere. I fell out with people there, and minutes later was nodding in agreement with them in the Ireland thread, or LoI, or wherever.

I don’t post here as much as I used to – partly down to starting a new role at work 18 months ago and having a lot less time, but partly because there are posters here who I don’t want to engage with. I don’t find them reasonable, accommodating, well-informed, interesting – they add nothing to my enjoyment of the site, or knowledge of Irish football. And, maybe it’s coincidence, but as these have become more prominent, other posters who provoked and prodded, made me laugh inappropriately out loud in public and change my mind, all the while being open to changing theirs, have disappeared.

I’m avoiding terms like wum and troll, and name-calling, even using names: there’s been too much of that, and all it does is entrench viewpoints. In any case, everybody reading this will know the other posters this is referencing. And that’s part of the problem: too often, it is the other poster – there’s precious little self-reflection that maybe they’re thinking the same of us.

All I want to see is more consideration in posts: nobody with a civil tone would ever be suspended. Dial back the 'nought to nuclear' instinct. Try to understand where somebody else is coming from. Punch hard when it’s needed – but only when it’s needed.

Is that too much to ask?

[SkStu]

Spot on EG. Sorry for my part in all of this, everyone. As I've said before, I am annoying myself with many of my contributions to the topic at this point - never mind everyone else. I will take Adam's advice and just try to completely disengage on this topic and with some posters going forward. Apologies again - and wish me luck LOL :)

[CraftyToePoke]

Is that too much to ask ?

Dude, you're one of my favourite posters, one of I'd say about five I've interacted on PM with in nearly twenty years of being on here, but this kind of hippy talk will just get us all killed.

The rhetoric on one side of this has always been open, flexible, willing to reevaluate, hopeful and decent towards a guy in a tough job.

Across no mans land you have a crew who exhibit none of the above, they just want to have been right and will throw any rock to achieve that. The performance last week is highlighting the collective lesser aspects of their character.

You never see them on the underage threads for example
They never overall contribute here & never really have.
Maybe we should go easy on them as they were probably raised in the theatre of Delaneys, Spin The Wheel variant of national association governance and they just don't understand that football in Ireland is aiming to build something worthy of these times & no longer spinning the wheel hoping for a lucky dip managerial interlude.
They just want their excitement of seeing if the little ball will stop on the 250k

& you know full well among them are several who if tasked with hiring an Ireland manager tomorrow would go get Tony Pulis because Allardyce & Dyche wouldn't be Charltonista enough.

I take your point, it needs to dial down but its not a six & two threes here. These muppets have only thrown rocks because that's all they have & the adults in the room would like to have a discussion and are having the discussions elsewhere because these lads seem incapable of being house trained.

So footdot flung a few and I'm absolutely good with that. The site needed to and needs to continue to in self preservation if nothing more.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

:D It's actually hilarious that this forum is dominated by Kennyites. Most of the Kenny discussion is started by them, the majority of the over the top, childish, comments come from them, yet they are throwing a massive hissy fit because a couple of posters dare think that Kenny is not a good manager. The constant moaning and the reporting of posts have got two posters suspended but the aim is to have them banned. It really is pathetic carry on but you just have to laugh at the behaviour of grown adults.

[osarusan]

Can I just add that this 'You have 24 hours to answer the question' moderation is just dreadful in my opinion.

[Razors left peg]

Can I just add that this 'You have 24 hours to answer the question' moderation is just dreadful in my opinion.

I think its fair enough to hold people to account when they come out with drivel... Its not Twitter, your opinions should be fact checked

[tetsujin1979]

Can I just add that this 'You have 24 hours to answer the question' moderation is just dreadful in my opinion.

It's only used as a last resort. Posters who engage on the forum usually don't have to be forced to respond.
Anyone who makes broad, ill-informed, antagonistic posts and refuses to elaborate needs to be forced to respond.

[CraftyToePoke]

Can I just add that this 'You have 24 hours to answer the question' moderation is just dreadful in my opinion.

Disagree. Only seen it used to deal with nonsense ongoing which to be fair to mods is posted a way which is difficult to deal with. Only seen it used to protect the greater good of the debate also.

[osarusan]

It's only used as a last resort. Posters who engage on the forum usually don't have to be forced to respond.
Anyone who makes broad, ill-informed, antagonistic posts and refuses to elaborate needs to be forced to respond.

I did a quick search and went back through your '24 hours' posts....maybe 15 or so since 2019.

The fact that not one of them is directed at mypost, who has posted more ill-formed, antagonistic, non-engaging posts than anybody else on this site (in its entire history I'd guess) tells me that it's not 'anyone.'

Some posters are dicks, I get it. But just take action against them for being dicks. Not by selectively enforcing something so they get a run of infractions against them while others don't for doing the same thing.

[tetsujin1979]

mypost gets reported a lot less than you might think.
Probably why I haven't had to do it

[osarusan]

mypost gets reported a lot less than you might think.
Probably why I haven't had to do it

You moderation powers aren't limited to when posts are reported, nor are you obliged to act when posts are reported.

So it doesn't explain it.

[Eminence Grise]

:D It's actually hilarious that this forum is dominated by Kennyites. Most of the Kenny discussion is started by them, the majority of the over the top, childish, comments come from them, yet they are throwing a massive hissy fit because a couple of posters dare think that Kenny is not a good manager. The constant moaning and the reporting of posts have got two posters suspended but the aim is to have them banned. It really is pathetic carry on but you just have to laugh at the behaviour of grown adults.

Well, given that my post on the previous page started some of this, where would you put me on the Kenny spectrum? Am I one of your precious Kennyites?* As to the forum being dominated by Kennyites, I don’t recall many of your posts in the various League of Ireland, current affairs or off topic forums. You might be surprised how little Kenny features in discussions on films and box sets, the tribulations of Enoch Burke, or US politics.

What I was calling out, reasonably politely, was the churlish, puerile nonsense that has begun to infest this site, on both sides of the Kenny polemic – clearly, it’s not a debate if bloody-minded intransigence is the default permanent setting – that offers up a far lesser standard of good conduct and honest contribution than many longstanding posters here are familiar with, expect and much prefer.

It’s quite telling that you only see your side being pointed at in that regard.

But, of course, the narrative of victimisation and persecution evident from some recent posters here neatly maintains the self-deception that everybody else is out of step, and only the true believers have been granted enlightenment. At such times, more’s the pity, Aristotle’s golden mean seems insurmountably distant. But that give and take, that honest attempt to find the middle ground in debate, was the hallmark of so many posters here over the years – the still mourned eirebhoy (RIP), Thischarmingman, Bonnieshels, Magicme, Spudulika, and so many others. Newer posters could do far worse than look to those old posts to understand where this forum gets its distinctive voice.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care whether Kenny is a god or a demon: he’s just one man doing a job where getting fired is virtually guaranteed. In a perverse way, I’d be happy if he was sacked in the morning if it meant he took some of our more insufferably dogmatic posters with him.

*Rhetorical question: you don’t need to go checking through my posts. I’m entirely unconcerned what you think of me.