Republic of Ireland V France - Monday, 27th March 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

[John83]

Lads, if ye find Boomers annoying, put him on your ignore list. The meta-discussion here is utter pants.

Sadly, I'm working long hours in the wrong time zone to have caught the match. I said before it that a win for us should see Deschamps sacked. I was exaggerating a little for effect - the man has enough credit in the bank to survive one bad result - but a narrow defeat is a perfectly expected, normal, acceptable result for us here. With the best game plan and motivation in the world, you have to have a lucky break or six to win a game like that. Someone said a few pages ago that it's our first home defeat in the Euro qualifiers since 2010, but it's likely against the best team we've played in that time. The truth is we can't learn much from a match like this, though the spirit and organisation that kept the score down is a positive. The matches that will tell us where we stand are against Greece. Are we better than them? I sure hope so. Signs point to maybe.

[Eirambler]

This. This bears repeating. Again. FFS.

It's not 100% about the manager's competence. It's not 100% about the quality of the players. Good squads can be held back by poor management, and competent management can fail because of a limited playing pool. Scottish fans have been grumbling about Clarke for a good while now, their media was outraged when they lost 3-0 last year to a '"who's that?" of international football', as they put it.

The poor results we've had in the last three years come down to a mixture of limited senior players, a missing generation, young players not being 'ready to go', and okay, a certain level of indecisive, inconsistent management, particularly in 2020 and early 2021. The main issue has always been the incompetence of the FAI, and the wasted years under Delaney, leaving us with a massive, unprecedented void in our player development - in addition to the well of 2nd/3rd generation English-born talent, which always compensated for our poor youth development, suddenly running dry. A scenario that resulted in lads like Ronan Curtis and Daryl Horgan winning caps under three different managers, in the sheer desperation to unearth international-standard midfielders and attackers.

The better results and performances have eventually come about because of big performances from seniors like Coleman, Egan and Doherty, the young lads eventually coming good to replace the dead wood in the squad, and being allowed to play football within an encouraging, positive setup. There has been some good management involved in facilitating this.

Fans singing 'Only One Stephen Kenny' at the matches is a bit cringeworthy at times, but it's important that the FAI hears the voices of positivity about what he's trying to do, if only so they get the clear message from the fans that, whenever the need is there to remove him, a return to hoofball will not be acceptable or tolerated. Fans demanding 'results at all cost' is only going to result in the FAI going cap-in-hand to Denis O'Brien so we can get someone like Big Sam.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but not the bit about us going cap in hand to O'Brien to get a big Sam type in. I just don't see us going down that road again. I think the next manager will continue SK's work to a large extent, but will hopefully be of a higher pedigree and ability than SK in order to take the team forward and get back to qualifying for tournaments.

[osarusan]

I don't share the disdain for hoofball that others on here do. If hoofball represents the best tactic for a particular game, or at a particular moment in a game, I'm all for it. For sure, it shouldn't be the only tactic, but it'll be valid at times.

A manager with an over-reliance on hoofball is no worse than a manager with an over-reliance on a passing game. Managers should be pragmatic in terms of what tactics are most likely to get a result out of any particular game.

And, as I've posted on here before, hoofball only really becomes an issue when it stops working. We had no real issue with it when we were hoofing our way to Euro 2012 and 16.

[Stuttgart88]

A full strength Spain is not as good as a full strength France. The World Cup showed that. We played a close to full strength France while the Spain team that lost to Scotland was far from full strength. Why are we even comparing the two?

[Stuttgart88]

This. This bears repeating. Again. FFS.

It's not 100% about the manager's competence. It's not 100% about the quality of the players. Good squads can be held back by poor management, and competent management can fail because of a limited playing pool. Scottish fans have been grumbling about Clarke for a good while now, their media was outraged when they lost 3-0 last year to a '"who's that?" of international football', as they put it.

The poor results we've had in the last three years come down to a mixture of limited senior players, a missing generation, young players not being 'ready to go', and okay, a certain level of indecisive, inconsistent management, particularly in 2020 and early 2021. The main issue has always been the incompetence of the FAI, and the wasted years under Delaney, leaving us with a massive, unprecedented void in our player development - in addition to the well of 2nd/3rd generation English-born talent, which always compensated for our poor youth development, suddenly running dry. A scenario that resulted in lads like Ronan Curtis and Daryl Horgan winning caps under three different managers, in the sheer desperation to unearth international-standard midfielders and attackers.

The better results and performances have eventually come about because of big performances from seniors like Coleman, Egan and Doherty, the young lads eventually coming good to replace the dead wood in the squad, and being allowed to play football within an encouraging, positive setup. There has been some good management involved in facilitating this.

Fans singing 'Only One Stephen Kenny' at the matches is a bit cringeworthy at times, but it's important that the FAI hears the voices of positivity about what he's trying to do, if only so they get the clear message from the fans that, whenever the need is there to remove him, a return to hoofball will not be acceptable or tolerated. Fans demanding 'results at all cost' is only going to result in the FAI going cap-in-hand to Denis O'Brien so we can get someone like Big Sam.It's important to point out too that Scotland and Wales each has two big fully professional big city / big town football clubs whose revenues dwarf that of the FAI's. This is important for player development. Furthermore, north Wales is virtually on Greater Manchester & Liverpool's doorstep. It's an old joke that north Wales is virtually scouse. The connection to well-funded football structures in each of those countries is much better than ours. The LOI clubs are doing what they can but even smaller Welsh clubs like Newpoprt County and Wrexham probably have bigger budgets. The absence of a genuine "football industry" in Ireland is a real drag on our ability to even remain a tier 2 football nation.

[nigel-harps1954]

What changed for the last few minutes leading to us getting our only shots on target? It wasn't "dinosaur" tactics or lobbing it into the box was it?? Shame on Kenny.

No harm, but this is pathetic.

[Eirambler]

It's important to point out too that Scotland and Wales each has two big fully professional big city / big town football clubs whose revenues dwarf that of the FAI's. This is important for player development.

I'd say the two in Glasgow do more damage to the Scottish national team than they do to help it to be honest.

And Cardiff are considered locally to be virtually an English team based in Wales in recent years.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

A full strength Spain is not as good as a full strength France. The World Cup showed that. We played a close to full strength France while the Spain team that lost to Scotland was far from full strength. Why are we even comparing the two?

I think it was just mentioned that Scotland had more to celebrate as they actually won their match leaving them in a better position to qualify as they're currently top of their group. And I don't think there would be any tempering of our celebrations if we had beaten France with any amount of changes. Sure look at how hyped up our draw with Belgium B was, in a friendly!

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I'd say the two in Glasgow do more damage to the Scottish national team than they do to help it to be honest.

And Cardiff are considered locally to be virtually an English team based in Wales in recent years.

And it's not as if these clubs were just created in the last couple of years (maybe Rangers), so they've always had this so called advantage. Even when we were far better than them.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd say the two in Glasgow do more damage to the Scottish national team than they do to help it to be honest.

And Cardiff are considered locally to be virtually an English team based in Wales in recent years.

The resources these clubs have for academies and player development is nothing like what we have at home. And the Glasgow clubs generate revenues for the lesser clubs, paying for coaches, producing players themselves etc. Are you seriously saying that having clubs that can generate tens of millions in revenues isn't an advantage over a country like ours?

[Stuttgart88]

And it's not as if these clubs were just created in the last couple of years (maybe Rangers), so they've always had this so called advantage. Even when we were far better than them.It's an advantage I'd quite like to have in the here and now.

[Eirambler]

Those clubs put themselves first and foremost. Especially the Glasgow two, who consistently buy in players from abroad at the expense of giving opportunities to local young players.

To answer your question, it depends on the approach of the club to youth development and how open they are to giving first team opportunities to developing players. The Glasgow clubs are not good examples of how to do this and, if you moved those two clubs to Dublin (let's say minus the sectarian element, but keeping the club rivalry) I very much doubt the Ireland team would be any better off as a result.

[Stuttgart88]

I think it was just mentioned that Scotland had more to celebrate as they actually won their match leaving them in a better position to qualify as they're currently top of their group. And I don't think there would be any tempering of our celebrations if we had beaten France with any amount of changes. Sure look at how hyped up our draw with Belgium B was, in a friendly!Nor should there have been but I’ve read most posts here, discussed it with my mates and read the Irish Times, The Indo and The Sun’s match reports. The overwhelming consensus view was that there was plenty of merit in the performance but it was a defeat all the same and we’ve got to start winning soon. So I'm not sure why celebration has come in to the discussion.

I understood the jist of the Scotland discussion as being "see what can happen with a good manager" (as if that's the single most important variable in Scotland's result) and that Scotland beating understrength Spain should somehow put some perspective on the assessment of our game.

[tetsujin1979]

top left quadrant?
1640992617902030848

[pineapple stu]

Was it the French defender with the first header?

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

It's an advantage I'd quite like to have in the here and now.

Not sure of how much an advantage it is.

[Stuttgart88]

Those clubs put themselves first and foremost. Especially the Glasgow two, who consistently buy in players from abroad at the expense of giving opportunities to local young players.

To answer your question, it depends on the approach of the club to youth development and how open they are to giving first team opportunities to developing players. The Glasgow clubs are not good examples of how to do this and, if you moved those two clubs to Dublin (let's say minus the sectarian element, but keeping the club rivalry) I very much doubt the Ireland team would be any better off as a result.

Well I disagree. Yes, you're right that these clubs look after themselves first and foremost but the spillover effects impact the whole ecosystem there. I think if we had a couple of competitive Europa League / lesser Champions League clubs in Ireland the economic impact would be huge. Similarly if we had clubs that can generate the revenues that the Welsh clubs can.

[ifk101]

top left quadrant?
1640992617902030848

The Spanish keeper is not saving that.

[Eirambler]

I have to say I find something very uncomfortable about that tweet. Basically still bigging up, two days later, that we almost scored a goal, that would have scraped us a point, in a home qualifier.

[Stuttgart88]

Was it the French defender with the first header?Yes, looks like it. And the way he held his hands afterwards was like he knew he'd got away with one.

[ifk101]

I have to say I find something very uncomfortable about that tweet.

All tweets from that account big it up. Surprisingly.

[Eirambler]

It would be nice if we had a point on the board that they could big up, rather than a header from a corner that was saved.

[ifk101]

We were all there to see Mbappe anyways.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Nor should there have been but I’ve read most posts here, discussed it with my mates and read the Irish Times, The Indo and The Sun’s match reports. The overwhelming consensus view was that there was plenty of merit in the performance but it was a defeat all the same and we’ve got to start winning soon. So I'm not sure why celebration has come in to the discussion.

I understood the jist of the Scotland discussion as being "see what can happen with a good manager" (as if that's the single most important variable in Scotland's result) and that Scotland beating understrength Spain should somehow put some perspective on the assessment of our game.

I think it's just a sign of how negative the perception of our senior team has become. Our chances were written off before a ball was kicked in this group by many. We haven't been beaten at home in euro qualifying since 2010 but many just assumed we'd get ripped apart. Where has this negativity come from? Prior to 2020, it was all about our managers being past their sell by date and not getting the most out of our players. Since 2020, it's all about our players being poor and the manager is doing as well as he can. And before 2020, our results were actually decent for the most part, the opposite after 2020.

If you put our team and the Scottish team side by side, I think most would say it's pretty even. We should be expecting better from what we have available, Scotland demand that. Let's stop talking our players down. They've proved on Monday that they are good enough. We can qualify from this group. Coming third or way off qualification is not acceptable. When you accept defeat, more will follow.

[Fixer82]

I honestly think part of it is Kenny being such a poor interviewee.

[Stuttgart88]

Scotland weren't playing France.

And I said I was hopeful of a result. And I'd have been more than hopeful if we were playing a makeshift Spain team at home.

[tetsujin1979]

Was reading the programme from the game earlier, when I noticed something
1641078055966842881

[Stuttgart88]

Dunne missed a great chance late in that game. Headed over the bar.

Alan O'Brien had a comically bad first touch when he came on.

[texidub]

In terms of reaction to the match, I would favour France to beat any team in the world on their day. They are the elite of the elite. A 1-0 loss isn't bad at all - but most importantly Ireland's performance was magnificent on the night. What's so exciting is the age profile of the players and the experience they are getting.

Another poster mentioned that hoofball is OK sometimes. I agree. I said it during the match in relation to Bazunu too - at least 3-4 hoofballs in a game has to be allowed rather than getting into too much jiggery pokery close to goal.

[seanfhear]

top left quadrant?
1640992617902030848
If it was in the top left corner the goal-keeper would not have been able to reach it ~ ~ It was an excellent save but the ball was Not in the top left corner.

[Stuttgart88]

But what’s the beef with it not being in the absolute top corner? It wasn’t, everyone can see that. It was high and well wide of centre.

9 inches or even less wider and it’s a goal. I feel someone’s trying to make out it wasn’t a good header or it should have been better. Photos show the ball was a fraction behind him, his upper body was angled backwards at point of impact. I think Collins did more or less everything right and more often than not it’s a goal. It was a far better effort than Richie Dunne’s late header in Stuttgart.

What’s wrong with just acknowledging we came very close to scoring? Which probably wouldn’t have been undeserved imho. France probably moan about the Martinez late save which was improbable. We’re allowed a little self pity too, unless you’re a joyless troll.

[seanfhear]

Pointing out ~ Accuracy of Fact ~ Is hardly trolling, is it ? !

[Stuttgart88]

Depends on what else you’ve said about the header.

[seanfhear]

Depends on what else you’ve said about the header.
The header was a very good effort and it was an excellent save.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree

[pineapple stu]

Molumby and O'Shea out for four and eight weeks respectively after picking up injuries against France (https://punditarena.com/football/james-fenton/west-brom-suffer-major-blow-following-ireland-duo-injury-news/).

That's close to the rest of the season. Not ideal with the Greece game in particular in June - they should be back for it, but will have little enough game time ahead of it.

[CSAD]

Molumby and O'Shea out for four and eight weeks respectively after picking up injuries against France (https://punditarena.com/football/james-fenton/west-brom-suffer-major-blow-following-ireland-duo-injury-news/).

That's close to the rest of the season. Not ideal with the Greece game in particular in June - they should be back for it, but will have little enough game time ahead of it.

Not the worst thing, they’ve played a lot this season so now at least they get some time to rest the bodies before June.

[seanfhear]

Not the worst thing, they’ve played a lot this season so now at least they get some time to rest the bodies before June.
West Brom won't be very happy.

[Razors left peg]

"Was it in top corner", "It wont be hot in Greece in the summer"..... Foot.ie has jumped the shark

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

"Was it in top corner", "It wont be hot in Greece in the summer"..... Foot.ie has jumped the shark

It won't be 30 degrees, it'll be warm but it'll be fine. It's not Orlando 94 we're talking about here.

The injuries are disappointing. Maybe the poster who said playing 2 matches over the international window was counterproductive had a point? They both played the full match v Latvia. Definitely won't help West Broms playoff bid in the championship.

[texidub]

Ferguson carrying a knock too? I don't see him on the team sheet for Brighton..

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ferguson carrying a knock too? I don't see him on the team sheet for Brighton..

Not on the bench either. I think it shows the effort our players put in last Monday. They put everything in for their country.

[backstothewall]

I was aghast that he took off Ferguson when he did though. I didn't understand that at all.

Happy to withdraw this. Misses out for Brighton today with a knock picked up during the game.

This makes a lot more sense in fairness.

[Eirambler]

I'm not convinced he was ever 100% fit in the France game actually. He picked up a knock against Latvia and was left on far too long that night. Should have just played 45 at most that night, or even just come in off the bench for the last 20.

[tetsujin1979]

Thread locked and archived
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