2025 UEFA European Under-21 Championship

[SkStu]

Finished 2-3 to our boys. Emakhu got the third.

[elatedscum]

Finished 2-3 to our boys. Emakhu got the third.

i thought the penalty against Healy was harsh. So probably anything other than a win, would have been harsh. Moments where we dominated possession well towards the end of the first half. Lawal's pass for the third goal was excellent, shows what he can bring to that position. Plenty of good midfielders in that squad with Hodge, Adeeko, Healy and Phillips having all played really well in the group so far. Still, great to see him finally get minutes in that position. Equally, plenty of decent centre-halves available: Anselmo, Grehan, O'Riordan, Abankwah, Murphy and Roughan can all play there at the very least. Good option for a manager to have...

Also, Sinclair and Aido adding to their tallies at 21s is nice to see...

[tetsujin1979]

Goals added to the the FAI's YouTube
frNw-eZhl3Q
Penalty does look harsh from that angle

[JR89]

i thought the penalty against Healy was harsh. So probably anything other than a win, would have been harsh. Moments where we dominated possession well towards the end of the first half. Lawal's pass for the third goal was excellent, shows what he can bring to that position. Plenty of good midfielders in that squad with Hodge, Adeeko, Healy and Phillips having all played really well in the group so far. Still, great to see him finally get minutes in that position. Equally, plenty of decent centre-halves available: Anselmo, Grehan, O'Riordan, Abankwah, Murphy and Roughan can all play there at the very least. Good option for a manager to have...

Also, Sinclair and Aido adding to their tallies at 21s is nice to see...

Really hope Sinclair and Aido can bring their U21 form into senior level because the lads are developing a good partnership. Those two in a front two can cause defences problems like we saw against Norway especially.

Think once it comes back to the qualifiers we'll see Lawal dropping back to CB for someone like Adeeko. It's a pity we never seem to get athletic FBs coming through and it's something maybe the FAI need to look at.

[elatedscum]

It is weird on one hand that we were basically the best at producing fullbacks, if I remember correctly, Kelly, Carr and Finnan were all in the premier league team of the year, 3 years in a row. Then you also had Dennis Irwin and Jeff Kenna, both premier league winners and Ian Harte, champions league semi finalist and free kick extraordinaire. And as recently as around 2020 (when Matt Doherty signed for Spurs), you’d have said our two best players were both right backs…

Nowadays, England seem to produce a great full back every few months, all of Reece James, Trent Alexander Arnold, Kieran Trippier and Kyle Walker are natural right backs and essentially vying for 1 place. Lamptey decided to play for Ghana cause he knew he had no chance and since the class of 1992, we basically haven’t produced a premier league calibre full back… despite producing everything else. Keepers, centre halves, centre midfielders, wingers and strikers…

[tetsujin1979]

Seamus Coleman?

[Olé Olé]

Seamus Coleman?

I assume that is the other of our two best players in 2020 next to Doherty unless ES is a big Cyrus Christie fan...

[Eirambler]

There is a reason for that I think. Full backs are different today from the hard working lads we used to produce who could get up and down the side of the pitch and get crosses in, but sometimes weren't the most gifted technically. Today's full backs are basically carrying a lot of the same skills as today's central midfielders, but maybe a bit faster too. But they're extremely comfortable on the ball and are trained to play through the thirds, which our lads can't really do.

What we're seeing is that countries that have strong academy structures and facilities in place are producing loads of technically strong centre mids and full backs. But they're often light on keepers, centre backs and centre forwards because the academies focus so much on the technical skills that develop midfielders and full backs. A prime example of this would be Scotland, who are overloaded with midfielders and full backs but severely lacking in other areas.

Then there's Ireland, who are very good at producing big, strong athletes but not so much when it comes to technical footballers. In that context maybe not a huge surprise that we're well stocked with keepers, centre backs and centre forwards, but seriously lacking in the technical players needed to link it all together. The contrast between Ireland and Scotland isn't a coincidence, it's a result of the different structures in place in the two countries (and also the reality that the average Irish man is about three inches taller than the average Scot!). Our structures, or lack of them, are the reason we're not producing full backs that suit the modern game.

[tetsujin1979]

Interview with Andrew Moran ahead of the fixture against England's U20s tomorrow
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/i-actually-booked-to-go-on-holiday-irish-u-21-andrew-moran-is-mixing-business-with-pleasure-in-croatia/a746938993.html

[CSAD]

There is a reason for that I think. Full backs are different today from the hard working lads we used to produce who could get up and down the side of the pitch and get crosses in, but sometimes weren't the most gifted technically. Today's full backs are basically carrying a lot of the same skills as today's central midfielders, but maybe a bit faster too. But they're extremely comfortable on the ball and are trained to play through the thirds, which our lads can't really do.

What we're seeing is that countries that have strong academy structures and facilities in place are producing loads of technically strong centre mids and full backs. But they're often light on keepers, centre backs and centre forwards because the academies focus so much on the technical skills that develop midfielders and full backs. A prime example of this would be Scotland, who are overloaded with midfielders and full backs but severely lacking in other areas.

Then there's Ireland, who are very good at producing big, strong athletes but not so much when it comes to technical footballers. In that context maybe not a huge surprise that we're well stocked with keepers, centre backs and centre forwards, but seriously lacking in the technical players needed to link it all together. The contrast between Ireland and Scotland isn't a coincidence, it's a result of the different structures in place in the two countries (and also the reality that the average Irish man is about three inches taller than the average Scot!). Our structures, or lack of them, are the reason we're not producing full backs that suit the modern game.


I think you are starting to fall into the same narrative setting/overthinking category a lot of Irish pundits have fallen into. I think the points you are using as a justification for your argument as to why Ireland dont produce midfielders/FB's while in some area's has some valid points is for the post part quite lazy and isnt backed up by much real evidence (the "evidence" you've given is circumstantial at best). If you watch any of Ireland's underage sides over the years I don't know how you can look at them and come to the conclusion they are struggling because of a lack of technical ability, even more so when you use Scotland as an example when Ireland consistently get the better of Scotland at pretty much every underage level they play eachother (not just because of the results but because of Ireland just being a better all round side, particularly at the last 2 victory shield tournaments). Even when you look at our CBs/GKs/CFs that are coming through while it's continuing a trend of Ireland producing mostly players in these positions I think the players we speak of sort of damage the argument of it being due to favour size over technique as the likes of Collins, Omobamidele, Ferguson and even in goal with the likes of Kelleher & Bazunu while all big players are all very good on the ball and I'd consider them much better technically than their Scottish equivalents for example. I think the reason we have struggled to produce FB's since the 1992 born group is the same reason we struggled to develop players in most positions, we had a black hole when it comes to player development of players born between 1993-1997 and while we've recovered in most positions we've struggled in others but I suspect the FB situation at least will change when you consider the likes of Ebosele, Curtis and Murphy look to have potential to make it at a high level going forward.

[Razors left peg]

There is a reason for that I think. Full backs are different today from the hard working lads we used to produce who could get up and down the side of the pitch and get crosses in, but sometimes weren't the most gifted technically. Today's full backs are basically carrying a lot of the same skills as today's central midfielders, but maybe a bit faster too. But they're extremely comfortable on the ball and are trained to play through the thirds, which our lads can't really do.


Denis Irwin was far from a fit hardworking lad who could get up and down the pitch. Equally good right or left side, never lost the ball passing, had a brilliant free kick in his locker. He'd walk into any team even today... and he must be nearly 60!!

Steven Finnan was another who had a bit more to his game than just getting down the wing.

[Jolly Red Giant]

Denis Irwin was far from a fit hardworking lad who could get up and down the pitch. Equally good right or left side, never lost the ball passing, had a brilliant free kick in his locker. He'd walk into any team even today... and he must be nearly 60!!

Steven Finnan was another who had a bit more to his game than just getting down the wing.
Tony Dunne was an exceptional full-back

Johnny Giles talking about Tony Dunne


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-5xpQMUDI

[Jolly Red Giant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpCtQO74UeM

[JR89]

Crawford changing things for this game.

..................Cahill
O'Brien Lawal Murphy Roughan
...........Hodge Adeeko
...Springett Vata O'Neill
..............O'Mahony

[pateen]

What time is the game on?

[elatedscum]

1-0 to us, Joe Hodge scored... Any sign of a stream?

[Razors left peg]

1-0 to us, Joe Hodge scored... Any sign of a stream?

Havent been able to find one. Wouldnt have taken much for FAI TV to stream it on youtube would it? Unless they blew all their budget on the big Marc Canham interview back in April!

[SkStu]

2-1 to England.

[SkStu]

2-2..

[elatedscum]

Worth noting, even though it was an u20s team vs an u21s team. In reality, both team were virtually the same age. Rounding each player to the nearest month, you get Ireland's average age being 20.636 and England's 20.629. If you just use the player's age by year (less accurate), Ireland end up with the younger squad...

[Bungle]

I was flicking through the England team and bench. Absolutely spoiled for riches they are. I might not be too familiar with a lot of them, but without exception, all first team regulars at a high level.

An u20 team really works for countries like England with the sheer level of quality they have at their disposal to give as many lads international exposure.

All in all though, we have real talent at pretty much all underage levels and the senior team has players that are young and talented. With a good manager, be it O'Shea or whoever it is, in the coming years, I think we can aim to be top 12-16 in Europe. Were we to produce a really world class outatanding midfielder, maybe we could even break the top 10. Obviously, right now, we are at a low ebb but I hope this season, we really see a lot of lads go from being big hopes to big stars.

It really is encouraging and a few years ago, it felt like Hail Mary time.

[CSAD]

I was flicking through the England team and bench. Absolutely spoiled for riches they are. I might not be too familiar with a lot of them, but without exception, all first team regulars at a high level.

An u20 team really works for countries like England with the sheer level of quality they have at their disposal to give as many lads international exposure.

All in all though, we have real talent at pretty much all underage levels and the senior team has players that are young and talented. With a good manager, be it O'Shea or whoever it is, in the coming years, I think we can aim to be top 12-16 in Europe. Were we to produce a really world class outatanding midfielder, maybe we could even break the top 10. Obviously, right now, we are at a low ebb but I hope this season, we really see a lot of lads go from being big hopes to big stars.

It really is encouraging and a few years ago, it felt like Hail Mary time.

So essentially aim to be where we were only 6-7 years ago ;)

[Bungle]

So essentially aim to be where we were only 6-7 years ago ;)

Fair point that!

When I look back on that era though, the football was horrendous to watch (still not exactly great to be fair) and maybe we were beginning to hear of a few talents at underage level, but it felt dark for the future. I will say I thought we were decent to watch in Euro 2016.

I like JO'S as a man, but this is Staunton part 2 stuff. At least back then, we had top players like Given, Finnan, Duff and Keane. Right now, we have real potential but nothing at that level - I actually do think Kelleher is top class and a fit Ferguson is an exceptional talent but you wouldn't be saying they are top class unless they prove it over the next 12-18 months on a regular basis.

You could see how early-Trap immediately enhanced us from the lows of Stan's era. Okay, a managerial great but past it at the very top by the time he came to us. I just fail to see how the FAI can't find even a half decent option. Spending big on a manager will pay for itself in the next four years, whether it's by making us competitive in the wc qualifiers and qualifying us for a home tournament in 2030 which could clear a lot of debt. Surely, there has to be someone out there operating or has operated at a decent level that is more qualified than John.

[tetsujin1979]

Behind the scenes with the next generation of Irish football as they build towards Euro qualifying goal
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/behind-the-scenes-with-the-next-generation-of-irish-football-as-they-build-towards-euro-qualifying-goal/a536625989.html

[Olé Olé]

Behind the scenes with the next generation of Irish football as they build towards Euro qualifying goal
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/behind-the-scenes-with-the-next-generation-of-irish-football-as-they-build-towards-euro-qualifying-goal/a536625989.html

Assume that's three generations of O'Riordans in the picture of Connor. Looks like his dad and his Irishborn grandad (his grandmother is Irishborn too - one is from Cork and the other Galway). Always nice to see those pictures.

There was one with Louis Barry and his Irish jersey and his Corkborn grandfather.

Obviously we tend to get them mostly at underage matches although, on another Cork note, I wonder if Sean Rice still has his picture with his young lad after a senior game up on the mantlepiece.

[JR89]

Alan Reynolds has officially left his role as assistant manager. Had been double jobbing since becoming Bohs manager back in March.

[Eirambler]

Squad named, no particularly new or exciting faces or drop downs from the seniors - other than Moran. Crawford denied the opportunity to play Lawal at centre back again due to injury. No Tyler Goodrham, I do wonder if it has turned out he's not actually eligible, or something like that.

No Stephan Negru either, that omission will likely see him push through with his switch to Moldova where he has been offered senior caps. A shame as I think he is a talented player, but we just have so many centre backs it's impossible to accommodate them all.

[JR89]

Wasn't Goodrham called up for an actual qualifier that one time. Would assume he's actually eligible if he gets an official call up at U21 level.

[Eirambler]

Given it's the FAI I wouldn't be certain until I see him on the pitch in a competitive game.

[tetsujin1979]

Wasn't Goodrham called up for an actual qualifier that one time. Would assume he's actually eligible if he gets an official call up at U21 level.

Yeah, he was in the squad V Turkey and San Marino last year, but didn't feature in either game
https://www.fai.ie/latest/crawford-names-u21-squad-for-euro-qualifiers-in-cork/

[nigel-harps1954]

Squad named, no particularly new or exciting faces or drop downs from the seniors - other than Moran. Crawford denied the opportunity to play Lawal at centre back again due to injury. No Tyler Goodrham, I do wonder if it has turned out he's not actually eligible, or something like that.

No Stephan Negru either, that omission will likely see him push through with his switch to Moldova where he has been offered senior caps. A shame as I think he is a talented player, but we just have so many centre backs it's impossible to accommodate them all.

Negru is decent but he'll never be a senior international for Ireland. Ceiling is about League One level, for me.

[elatedscum]

Goodrham is definitely eligible and could play for us against Turkey. Whether he’s committed is a different thing - not sure how much I can say - but genuinely only himself and Jim know for sure what his situation is. Journalists should probably ask for clarity…

He travelled across for the squad he was called up for but was back home before the first game was played (possibly injured, possibly a separate personal issue, possibly a commitment issue)

Very possible he is committed but also very possible he isn’t

[elatedscum]

As for the squad:

With the injuries to Grehan, Lawal and Adaramola, I think I’d have had 2 of Adegboyega, Furlong and Negru with Murphy a backup left back if you pick both Negru and Adegboyega. People say Furlong has had a good start to the season fwiw. Negru has often been unlucky to miss out and Adegboyega has done really well since signing for Norwich.

Also at back up right back, a choice between Abankwah who is capable of covering in the centre or Connor O’Brien who can cover at left back at a push.

Beyond that, I’d have had Goodrham and Fraser in the squad if available.

I assume neither Festy nor Tom Cannon were asked if they wanted to be included. But who knows… if I were HH, I’d have a meeting with every senior player eligible for the 21s (Gavin, Festy, Andrew, Evan, Troy, Tom) and basically say if you’re ever not called up, we expect you to be the 21s like Italy, the Netherlands, England, whoever do.

Congrats to Franco though. Good player and good lad…

[liamoo11]

Goodrham is definitely eligible and could play for us against Turkey. Whether he’s committed is a different thing - not sure how much I can say - but genuinely only himself and Jim know for sure what his situation is. Journalists should probably ask for clarity…

He travelled across for the squad he was called up for but was back home before the first game was played (possibly injured, possibly a separate personal issue, possibly a commitment issue)

Very possible he is committed but also very possible he isn’t

Possibly?

[liamoo11]

Negru is decent but he'll never be a senior international for Ireland. Ceiling is about League One level, for me.

I think you can go higher than league one . Negru I'm not as sure about

[Olé Olé]

I saw Goodrham once or twice for Oxford this season. He is small. And he was decent on the ball and skillful enough but didn't seem to be going by players. Reminded me of Harry Vaughan at Hull (who has gone a bit quiet but is only 20). It is hard to know how good he can be.

It would be surprising if a lad in his situation opted out of an Irish under 21 camp if called up. It isn't the end of the world if that has occurred though.

Fraser is an interesting case. His loan to the Belgian second tier may be a reality check for him and others. But Matt Healy gets his caps whilst there. He's not ahead of Mark O'Mahony or Sinclair Armstrong in my book (and others I'm sure) and if he's been left out and left out for Johnny Kenny that isn't completely unreasonable either. So there is a chance he's just been excluded behind those lads as opposed to it being a commitment issue too.

[tetsujin1979]

Crawford was asked about Fraser after the squad was announced yesterday
1829270299768168682

[Razors left peg]

Crawford was asked about Fraser after the squad was announced yesterday
1829270299768168682

I don't like that response from Crawford. I get we want to win games, but the primary function of the u21s is a development squad. There should be a fluidity to players being called up, not just focusing on a hard-core group. I don't even care about Fraser necessarily, I'm not sure he's particularly good and he's rejected call ups, but the sentiment that just because we are getting to end of the group should be irrelevant if new players present themselves

[Eirambler]

Think that's about right, I'm not at all convinced that Fraser is any better than the strikers that are in the squad, in fact I'd say he's quite a bit below a few of them. But I can't warm to Crawford at all either, he's just such an underwhelming manager with a deeply negative mindset.

[pateen]

Anyone know if this is available online somewhere?

[elatedscum]

Anyone know if this is available online somewhere?

The Turkey game? RTE player (RTE2). Has worked fine for me before from abroad whenever I’ve been abroad for 21s games in terms of geo restrictions or whatever

[Razors left peg]

The Turkey game? RTE player (RTE2). Has worked fine for me before from abroad whenever I’ve been abroad for 21s games in terms of geo restrictions or whatever

RTE Player always blocks me for games from the US and most VPNs dont work with it. I found NordVPN today does work... but the best bet is usually IPTV

[elatedscum]

RTE Player always blocks me for games from the US and most VPNs dont work with it. I found NordVPN today does work... but the best bet is usually IPTV

Weird - in my experience I get blocked from senior internationals but u21 games are fine without a VPN. I was probably in Germany, so maybe there’d be some difference between EU vs non-EU or maybe because I was possibly using a device with app via the irish App Store?

[CraftyToePoke]

RTE Player always blocks me for games from the US and most VPNs dont work with it. I found NordVPN today does work... but the best bet is usually IPTV

Keep an eye on that, I've had RTÉ seem to adjust to a VPN I was using before, Hola it was called. Worked fine a couple of times and sat down for a big game to a blank screen & mad panic.

[Eirambler]

Goodrham is definitely eligible and could play for us against Turkey. Whether he’s committed is a different thing - not sure how much I can say - but genuinely only himself and Jim know for sure what his situation is. Journalists should probably ask for clarity…

He travelled across for the squad he was called up for but was back home before the first game was played (possibly injured, possibly a separate personal issue, possibly a commitment issue)

Very possible he is committed but also very possible he isn’t

Crawford has confirmed that Tyler Goodrham has opted out of the Under 21 squad for now.

[JR89]

Yeah says Goodrham wants to concentrate on club football for the time being and has had some personal stuff come up. Think someone mentioned his partner recently had a baby.

[Exgrad]

First professional footballer to have a personal life outside football. Lucky he's the only one with one or we'd never get any teams out on the pitch.

[Eirambler]

He hasn't played any international football at all, so plenty of time for him to decide down the line who he wants to play for internationally - if he's good enough of course.

[pateen]

RTE Player always blocks me for games from the US and most VPNs dont work with it. I found NordVPN today does work... but the best bet is usually IPTV

Rte player always blocks me too and my dodgy box sub has expired. Seems their not renewing subs either

[tetsujin1979]

Two games in our group today
Italy kicking off against San Marino in a few minutes: https://www.uefa.com/under21/match/2037262--italy-vs-san-marino/
Latvia drawing with Norway after 40 minutes: https://www.uefa.com/under21/match/2037283--latvia-vs-norway/
Could do with a draw, or a win for Latvia in that game