The League Cup 2023- The Return??

[Kiki Balboa]

Does anybody have any news if this Tournament is returning next season? Lenister Seinor Cup too?

[culloty82]

Would make sense to play the early stages as a pre-season tournament in January, and the quarter-finals and semis mid-week, as occurs in Scotland, if there ever were any plans to revive the competition.

[Jd2793]

this should be back. makes no sense at all to scrap it.

[Kiki Balboa]

I feel it needs to be back as it can fill a pretty big role on the calendar. Since we have no 'B' teams or reserve league, it would be good for u19s and returning injured players to get some competitive game time.


Would love to see it be a bit more creative with the format, maybe groups based on provinces or the first stage like the new Champions League format (as to differentiate it from the FAI Cup). Play it early in the season to coincide with Junior leagues, and seek to include teams who might want to join the new tier.


Either that or would love to replace it with an open cup competition for the whole of the Island, and include teams from the North in one-off games.

[joey B]

I feel it needs to be back as it can fill a pretty big role on the calendar. Since we have no 'B' teams or reserve league, it would be good for u19s and returning injured players to get some competitive game time.


Would love to see it be a bit more creative with the format, maybe groups based on provinces or the first stage like the new Champions League format (as to differentiate it from the FAI Cup). Play it early in the season to coincide with Junior leagues, and seek to include teams who might want to join the new tier.


Either that or would love to replace it with an open cup competition for the whole of the Island, and include teams from the North in one-off games.

Always thought a cross border competition with a European spot for the winner would be an idea,no clue if it would be possible to achieve but there would be more interest in it if there was a decent prize at the end of it…..

[EatYerGreens]

Always thought a cross border competition with a European spot for the winner would be an idea,no clue if it would be possible to achieve but there would be more interest in it if there was a decent prize at the end of it…..

This was where the All-Island League idea fell back to after the initial idea faced big opposition.

Hard to see why UEFA would be interested in making a special case for Ireland (even if the winners were unlikely to progress very far). The whole 'peace' argument is overplayed significantly - and could also set a tricky precedent for UEFA re various other places (Cyrpus, the Balkans etc). Could maybe argue for a preliminary round slot at best, but I don't think they exist outside of the Champions League - and we'd be talking Conference at best for winners of something like this.

In short - hard to see it happening. Unless someone fancies bribing UEFA over it all.

[joey B]

Yeah it would definitely be a long shot,the All Ireland league idea seems to have died down a bit so something like that might wet the appetite for one in the future…..

[legendz]

The 4 European teams could compete in the President's Cup. All other teams then could compete in the League Cup. The President's Cup winner, League Cup winner and 2 best placed league teams could qualify for a European playoff.
The FAI Cup final suits being the final game of the season. The FAI Cup final can determine the final team that qualifies for Europe through the league, as happened yesterday with Derry's win securing Pat's qualification. For this reason, a European playoff could be contested at the start of the next season. It can be a high profile way to start the season.
Clubs are eager to qualify for Europe. A playoff around that final European spot can have a high profile. With the calendar season, the LoI can take advantage of being able to stage that playoff at the start of the season in time for the summer.

[total hoofball]

I can't see any resurrection of the league cup with spiralling transport costs and minimum wages now to contend with. If the First Division is going to be 36 games next season then there is no chance there will be any buy in from those clubs

[D24Saint]

I can't see any resurrection of the league cup with spiralling transport costs and minimum wages now to contend with. If the First Division is going to be 36 games next season then there is no chance there will be any buy in from those clubs

Wouldn't have any appetite for its return in its previous form. The issue about transport costs is a valid one aswell. If it could be rejigged into a preseason tournament it could be worthwhile.

[Neish]

Would like to see its return but not in the current climate with spiraling costs

[Kiki Balboa]

Is running transport that expensive?

I feel like this tournament is badly missing, and could be useful in preparing the ground for the future 'third tier'.

[JC_GUFC]

It used to be played in pre-season groups previously. With 20 teams next season it could be 4 groups of 5 teams playing each other once - that would be a total of 5 game "weeks". Top 2 in each group qualify for QFs.

Or even if the 4 European teams don't play that's 4 groups of 4.

I guess the issue for some clubs would be the longer season, although they'd be playing these instead of pre-season games I would assume that for a player to play in an official League Cup match they'd have to be registered rather than just "A Trialist".

[legendz]

Is running transport that expensive?

I feel like this tournament is badly missing, and could be useful in preparing the ground for the future 'third tier'.An alternative option is regional league cups. Connacht/Ulster, North Leinster, South Leinster and Munster.

[Jd2793]

is the league cup not already regionalised for the the first 2 rounds??

[pineapple stu]

Twas, yep

[EatYerGreens]

An alternative option is regional league cups. Connacht/Ulster, North Leinster, South Leinster and Munster.

If you're proposing separate league cups for each of those regions, then that would devalue and kill the competition entirely.

I don't see what's wrong with the format we had before = regionalised early stages, then nationwide after that.

[legendz]

If you're proposing separate league cups for each of those regions, then that would devalue and kill the competition entirely.

I don't see what's wrong with the format we had before = regionalised early stages, then nationwide after that.
Is a national league cup needed? Cork v Waterford in a Munster League Cup final. Derry v Sligo in a Connacht-Ulster League Cup final. Dundalk v Bohemians in a North Leinster League Cup final. Shamrock Rovers v St. Pat's in a South Leinster League Cup final. 4 regionalised cups based on local rivalries.

[NeverFeltBetter]

That would probably garner Munster Senior Cup numbers.

For me the magic bullet for the League Cup can only be some manner of Euro spot, even if it's qualification to some form of play-off with a suitably highly placed league side. Without that it's just very unimportant. The idea of having some cross-border element is great on paper, but difficult to foresee.

[Jd2793]

dont really understand the apathy towards it. hoping fai come to their senses and bring it back , the previous format worked well.

[EatYerGreens]

dont really understand the apathy towards it. hoping fai come to their senses and bring it back , the previous format worked well.

The thing is that the League Cup DOES capture the attention/imagination of fans and clubs, but not until the quarter-final or semi-final stages. Before then it usually feels like a distraction. It's probably just the nature of a 3rd trophy, as the English League Cup faces similar issues with its earlier rounds. There have been some good crowds at League Cup Finals in recent years, and its also given smaller clubs like Cobh, Limerick and Galway a boost to reach the final. So it's not that the public reject it - it's just that they only get into it when it looks like their team has a shot at winning it.

I'd bring it back as it was before. When to start it is of more importance really IMO.

[2 Year Contract]

dont really understand the apathy towards it. hoping fai come to their senses and bring it back , the previous format worked well.

Agree with you there. The league cup final is a great day out, it usually pulls in a sell out crowd in whatever ground it’s in and it’s an opportunity for a trophy, particularly for smaller clubs that let’s face it haven’t/won’t have many better opportunities at winning one. Take Cobh, Limerick, Galway, Drogheda all making the final in the last decade for example, granted Drogs were the only one to win it out of those but if any of those underdog sides were to win the final it’d be one of the most historic days in their history. The earlier rounds are also a great opportunity for competitive game time for lads that aren’t playing as much as they’d like in the league. Straight away I can think of 6 or 7 pats players that could’ve done with the league cup/LSC being around this year.

A European place for the winner is a non runner though, I like the idea in theory but with just 4 European places available, 3rd place in the league is absolutely deserving of a euro spot and the FAI Cup obviously deserves a spot ahead of the League Cup.

EDIT: Ha! Just saw EYG's post after I posted mine. Both thinking along the same lines

[redobit]

Defo should be back. At the end of the day we are football clubs and our business is to play football for trophies.

[2 Year Contract]

Defo should be back. At the end of the day we are football clubs and our business is to play football for trophies.

You would never be accepted onto the board at Bohs with that opinion ;)

[FTA-1895]

LC should be brought back with group stage in pre-season in place of behind closed doors friendlies in the AUL or Abbotstown or wherever.

[sbgawa]

LC should be brought back with group stage in pre-season in place of behind closed doors friendlies in the AUL or Abbotstown or wherever.

This 100% and let Triallists play as well (as thats the only reason that some managers could say they would prefer friendlies).

[pineapple stu]

LC should be brought back with group stage in pre-season in place of behind closed doors friendlies in the AUL or Abbotstown or wherever.
Makes even more sense if wages have to be paid in pre-season now

[legendz]

That would probably garner Munster Senior Cup numbers.

The thing is that the League Cup DOES capture the attention/imagination of fans and clubs, but not until the quarter-final or semi-final stages. Before then it usually feels like a distraction.
With 36 games in the league and 4 clubs in Europe in the summer, there isn't much room for a national league cup. Regionalised league cups can be played out in 2 or 3 rounds before the summer.
If seeded based on league placing, Connacht-Ulster would give Sligo v Galway and Derry v Harps a 50:50 chance of being a semi-final lineup. Cork would get to take on one or two of their Munster rivals.
Where rivals are in different divisions, they can go a few years without a competitive game against each other. Regionalised league cups could be beneficial there.

[2 Year Contract]

With 36 games in the league and 4 clubs in Europe in the summer, there isn't much room for a national league cup.

Yet room was always found for it pre covid during a 36 game season with 4 clubs in europe

[legendz]

Yet room was always found for it pre covid during a 36 game season with 4 clubs in europeFair point. Has there been any clubs asking for a return of the League Cup though?
The 4 European teams could compete in the President's Cup. All remaining teams in the League Cup. The President's Cup winner and League Cup winner then could qualify for the President's Cup of the following year. This would mean 4, 5 or 6 teams competing in the President's Cup.

[Dermobohs]

Maybe a league cup for teams not in Europe?

[EatYerGreens]

Maybe a league cup for teams not in Europe?

That wouldn't technically be a League Cup then, and would be all the worse for not including the league's best clubs (and most probably its best supported too). Call it a resurrection of the Shield or something, but it cam't be a League Cup

[legendz]

That wouldn't technically be a League Cup then, and would be all the worse for not including the league's best clubs (and most probably its best supported too). Call it a resurrection of the Shield or something, but it cam't be a League CupIt would still be a League Cup. The President's Cup in my example would be ranked higher. It wouldn't be all the worse for it either. The League Cup winner can qualify for the President's Cup of the following year. Their can be prestige in being in that elite cup.

[EatYerGreens]

It would still be a League Cup.

A cup that does not include every team in the league is, by very definition, NOT a League Cup.

You seem obsessed with tinkering with things constantly.

[pineapple stu]

Was it the League Cup when non-league sides were in it?

Is the FAI Cup a League Cup because it includes every team in the league?

I don't agree with leaving the four Euro sides out, but you can call the competition whatever you want

[EatYerGreens]

Was it the League Cup when non-league sides were in it?

Yes.


Is the FAI Cup a League Cup because it includes every team in the league?

It wasn't THE League Cup. Because the FAI Cup (the clue is in the name) was never organised by the League :cool:

[pineapple stu]

Bizarre logic. Was the League Cup organised by the league? Was the FAI Cup not originally organised by the (Leinster Senior) League? After all, the league set up the FAI, not the other way around)?

How can teams not in the league be in a League Cup? Was it still the Leinster Senior League when Sligo Rovers were in it? Why do intermediate/junior sides get into the Leinster Senior Cup? And why are there non-champions in the Champions League?

Is it a League Cup if it starts (as it did for years) with a league stage? Or was the name just copied from England's new third tier competition which was launched just a few years earlier?

You can call it what you want.

[legendz]

A cup that does not include every team in the league is, by very definition, NOT a League Cup.

You seem obsessed with tinkering with things constantly.The scheduled Monday night games for 2022 were February 28, March 14, April 18 and May 23. The clubs in Europe have a good chance of going through a few rounds of the Europa Conference League. The FAI Cup first round onwards was from the end of July.
Would the clubs in Europe want 4 or 5 rounds in the League Cup? The influence behind the President's Cup suggestion for the European clubs was it could be completed in 2 or 3 rounds before the summer.

[culloty82]

There seems to be no need to reinvent the wheel here - 20 League clubs, so roughly regionalise them into 5 groups of 4:

Group A:
Cobh
Cork
Kerry
Treaty

Group B:
Derry
Finn Harps
Galway
Sligo

Group C:
Athlone
Drogheda
Dundalk
Longford

Group D:
Bohs
Shelbourne
St Pats
Shamrock Rovers

Group E:
Bray
UCD
Waterford
Wexford

Each group would play three games in January, with group winners and three best runners-up advancing, knock-outs to be played Mon-Tuesdays when appropriate, and completed before European competitions begin.

[Neish]

It would still be a League Cup. The President's Cup in my example would be ranked higher. It wouldn't be all the worse for it either. The League Cup winner can qualify for the President's Cup of the following year. Their can be prestige in being in that elite cup.

No presidents play in it therefore it can't be the presidents cup ;)

[EatYerGreens]

No presidents play in it therefore it can't be the presidents cup ;)

It's the President's Cup (belonging to) not the Presidents Cup (plural).

Hence Michael D doesn't get a run out, but does get to leave the cup to one of his dogs in his will. My money's on Brod.

[culloty82]

Interesting - a new LoI Players Committee met in Lansdowne Road before tonight's game, and it seems the return of the League Cup was one of the items on the agenda:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/unlicensed-agents-return-league-cup-31175323

[legendz]

The Europa Conference League seems to have branched successfully from the Europa League in recent years.
I'd be in favour of a left field format of the President's Cup expanding to include the top 5 in the Premier Division. The FAI Cup winner, League Cup winner and previous year's President's Cup winner should also qualify if outside the top 5. An elite President's Cup of 5 to 8 teams, with the remaining 12 to 15 teams contesting the League Cup.
A debatable suggestion would be for the expanded President's Cup winner to be guaranteed at least a European playoff spot against 3rd or 4th, depending on the FAI Cup winner.

[D24Saint]

Interesting - a new LoI Players Committee met in Lansdowne Road before tonight's game, and it seems the return of the League Cup was one of the items on the agenda:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/unlicensed-agents-return-league-cup-31175323

As a pre season competition I’d be in favour.

[total hoofball]

McGuinness wanting a tax on already expensive Aviva stadium friendly matches for a fund for ex-LOI players who don't plan for post-LOI career which foreseeably ends early to mid-30s is one of the daftest things he has come out with on top of his previous daft stuff

[ger121]

McGuinness wanting a tax on already expensive Aviva stadium friendly matches for a fund for ex-LOI players who don't plan for post-LOI career which foreseeably ends early to mid-30s is one of the daftest things he has come out with on top of his previous daft stuff

A benevolent fund as they want to call it ,could have many uses. Nobody knows how their circumstances can change. I have seen fund raising activities for ex LOI and International players who have fallen on hard times or are sick. A fund to help support players in situations like this would be a good thing. I’ve seen lots of money wasted in the league on far less noble endeavours.

[nigel-harps1954]

Agree with Ger. The PFAI have come up with many worse suggestions over the years

[total hoofball]

A benevolent fund as they want to call it ,could have many uses. Nobody knows how their circumstances can change. I have seen fund raising activities for ex LOI and International players who have fallen on hard times or are sick. A fund to help support players in situations like this would be a good thing. I’ve seen lots of money wasted in the league on far less noble endeavours.
Should the PFAI members themselves not be initiating kick-starting this fund through their own contributions themselves with providing financial management education for their members instead of proposing the usual tax for someone else to pay? I say this also knowing many former players/PFAI members in the league at different clubs who have told me their frustrations about teammates who in their 20s coasting along not making big money while making no active planning whatsoever for a post-LOI career be it through education or gaining experience working part-time

[EatYerGreens]

McGuinness wanting a tax on already expensive Aviva stadium friendly matches for a fund for ex-LOI players who don't plan for post-LOI career which foreseeably ends early to mid-30s is one of the daftest things he has come out with on top of his previous daft stuff

I would positively welcome any form of tax on people stupid enough to pay to watch the likes of a ManUre-Bilbao meaninnglesss and pointless friendly in Ireland. I'd tax the living feck out of them :D