It's a bit rich for Shelbourne to complain about racist abuse

[ThatGuy]

Now I thought that what happened last night was a disgrace and completely unacceptable, and gives a very poor reflection on the Romanian people.

But I find it very rich to hear Shelbourne staff complaining when Jabba the Hutt is quoted in a globally distributed magazine as saying that he believed that it was OK for Mark Rutherford to be told to get back into the showers to wash the black off.

Of course Shelbourne will milk what happened for any publicity that it can get, but when a senior official of the club can make comments like that that it is hard to lend any credibility to their complaints.

[jfogarty]

Now I thought that what happened last night was a disgrace and completely unacceptable, and gives a very poor reflection on the Romanian people.

But I find it very rich to hear Shelbourne staff complaining when Jabba the Hutt is quoted in a globally distributed magazine as saying that he believed that it was appropriate to tell Mark Rutherford to get back into the showers to wash the black off.

Of course Shelbourne will milk what happened for any publicity that it can get, but when a senior official of the club can make comments like that that it is hard to lend any credibility to their complaints.

2 words - David Crawley

[Poor Student]

However bad isolated racist incidents here seem it is quite endemic and far more disgusting in many Eastern European grounds where it can take place en masse. I believe it should be highlighted at shamed at every occasion.

[Roverstillidie]

However bad isolated racist incidents here seem it is quite endemic and far more disgusting in many Eastern European grounds where it can take place en masse. I believe it should be highlighted at shamed at every occasion.

but surely we should stop those yokels in dundalk doing it before we lecture anyone else?

[Slash/ED]

Dear jesus you have an unhealthy obsession

[ThatGuy]

Dear jesus you have an unhealthy obsession
Obesession?

OK "Slash/ED", do you think Jabba's comments were appropriate?

If yes end of story.

If no, do you think it is hypocritical for Shelbourne to criticise others about racism?

[Slash/ED]

No I don't but it hardly means he or anyone else connected to the club can't say anything while players are getting racially abused. That is a load of nonsense, the kind I'd expect from you at this stage.

[ThatGuy]

No I don't but it hardly means he or anyone else connected to the club can't say anything while players are getting racially abused. That is a load of nonsense, the kind I'd expect from you at this stage.Oh that ends it I guess.
It is nonsense to highlight double standards? Oh how dare I criticise Shelbourne or Saint Ollie. He can do what he wants :rolleyes:

Ollie can and will say what he wants, fair play to him, but he has to be accountable for what he says and when he comes out with blatant racism it is always going to be dragged up when a racism controversy surrounds Shelbourne. If you think that is ridiculous tnen you are living in a dream world.

[Slash/ED]

No, you're right to have a go at his comments that are now, what, three years old? But that's a seperate issue, it hardly means Fenlon can't condem racism now. That is a farcical argument.

[ThatGuy]

No, you're right to have a go at his comments that are now, what, three years old? But that's a seperate issue, it hardly means Fenlon can't condem racism now. That is a farcical argument.
Fenlon can say what he wants as can Ollie. It is not a completely seperate issue, it is connected by the same theme, racism.

[razor]

What happened last night was a disgrace. Saw a few morons in front of the main Steaua support with microphones and the abuse was loudest through these. Steps should be taken Jabba or not.

[Slash/ED]

Fenlon can say what he wants as can Ollie. It is not a completely seperate issue, it is connected by the same theme, racism.

The theme it's connected to is your pathetic obsession with point scoring over Shelbourne.

The point you're trying to make is it was somehow wrong of Fenlon to condem racism because of comments Ollie made years ago, quoting someone else incidentally if memory serves, which is aload of sh*te.

[ThatGuy]

The theme it's connected to is your pathetic obsession with point scoring over Shelbourne.

The point you're trying to make is it was somehow wrong of Fenlon to condem racism because of comments Ollie made years ago, quoting someone else incidentally if memory serves, which is aload of sh*te.
I don't think it is wrong for Fenlon to say what he thinks, you are just trying to deflect the issue completely.

[Poor Student]

ThatGuy, this is petty rubbish. You're allowing your petty dislikes to deflect the issue Fenlon has quite rightly highlighted.

[Passive]

2 words - David Crawley

Can one of the Pat's lads explain was the 'Crawley is a racist' allegation is all about? PM if you don't want to write it on a public forum.

[ThatGuy]

ThatGuy, this is petty rubbish. You're allowing your petty dislikes to deflect the issue Fenlon has quite rightly highlighted.
If you say so, son. :rolleyes:


Shels are always right. When ther fans fight whose fault is it, Shamrock Rovers!!!! When their fans invade the pitch it is great. When others do they should be punished. When a pitch is poor the club should be punished, when Shels pitch is bad who cares. When a Shels official makes racist comments it is ok, when others do it is a disgrace (it is for both cases).

[pete]

This thread is going nowhere. Keep it on Topic, no attacks, names etc... or else will be Closed.

[dcfcsteve]

Now I thought that what happened last night was a disgrace and completely unacceptable, and gives a very poor reflection on the Romanian people.

But I find it very rich to hear Shelbourne staff complaining when Jabba the Hutt is quoted in a globally distributed magazine as saying that he believed that it was appropriate to tell Mark Rutherford to get back into the showers to wash the black off.

Of course Shelbourne will milk what happened for any publicity that it can get, but when a senior official of the club can make comments like that that it is hard to lend any credibility to their complaints.

What was this Olly allegation all about - never heard about it before myself ?

[ThatGuy]

What was this Olly allegation all about - never heard about it before myself ?
In an interview in Hot Press magazine he was talking about complaints about racism being blown out of proportion and says that he said that to Rutherford when he was a Shels player.

Yet apparently a Shels player on the recieving end of racist abuse has absolutely nothing to do with a Shels pkayer on the recieving end of racist abuse.

[dcfcsteve]

An interview in Hot Press magazine he was talking about complaints about racism being blown out of proportion and says that he said that to Rutherford when he was a Shels player.

Yet apparently a Shels player on the recieving end of racist abuse has absolutely nothing to do with a Shels pkayer on the recieving end of racist abuse.

Oh dear. Seems we have our very own Ron Atkinson (though at least Ron didn't do time....)

[TheOwl]

Now I thought that what happened last night was a disgrace and completely unacceptable, and gives a very poor reflection on the Romanian people.

But I find it very rich to hear Shelbourne staff complaining when Jabba the Hutt is quoted in a globally distributed magazine as saying that he believed that it was appropriate to tell Mark Rutherford to get back into the showers to wash the black off.

Of course Shelbourne will milk what happened for any publicity that it can get, but when a senior official of the club can make comments like that that it is hard to lend any credibility to their complaints.

That Guy - You entitled this thread “It's a bit rich for Shelbourne to complain about racist abuse” not “It's a bit rich for Ollie Byrne to complain about racist abuse.”

Shelbourne encompasses all players, fans, and staff at the club and not one hot head. You’re are suggesting that it is double standards for all of us to complain about racist abuse?

Please could a moderator close this thread, as a Shels fan I find it highly offensive. I don’t mind people having a go at Shels for most things, but this is just pathetic, there is no valid point being made here.

[Cosmo]

Just to repeat what Passive said, whats the Dave Crawley story? :confused:

[Sheridan]

In an interview in Hot Press magazine he was talking about complaints about racism being blown out of proportion and says that he said that to Rutherford when he was a Shels player.
No, he didn't. He cited it as an example of "banter" between players (the comment wasn't made by Ollie) and went on to declare that any player who (by Ollie's somewhat mystifying intepretation) racially abused a team-mate or opponent would be shown the door.

I recall being somewhat stunned upon reading this article, and while I have no doubt that, in the context in which it occurred (i.e., five or more years ago, between working-class team-mates of long standing) no malice was intended, it's the kind of faux pas which could easily get someone sacked in another line of work, and not without justification.

But hey, if your employer has a track record of tacitly condoning mildly racist behaviour, then f*ck it, you deserve to racially abused, eh? :rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

That Guy - You entitled this thread “It's a bit rich for Shelbourne to complain about racist abuse” not “It's a bit rich for Ollie Byrne to complain about racist abuse.”

Shelbourne encompasses all players, fans, and staff at the club and not one hot head. You’re are suggesting that it is double standards for all of us to complain about racist abuse?

Please could a moderator close this thread, as a Shels fan I find it highly offensive. I don’t mind people having a go at Shels for most things, but this is just pathetic, there is no valid point being made here.


The Owl - Olly Byrne is your Chairman (or whatever he calls himself). He therefore represents your club - more so than any player does, for example.

When he's interviewed in his capacity as Chair of Shels, and says something like that about his approach to 'banter' towards a black Shels player, it can't be just brushed off as the mutterings of just one mad fiool - as if it was an old man in the stands. When Olly speaks he speaks for Shels - whether you like what he says or not... . It is therefore appropriate to bring up his comments in the light of Shels complaint re rascism (though doing so does not reduce Shels's right to complain).

Shels are right to condemn and complain about any rascist abuse form Steaua fans. I have no faith in UEFA doing anything about it though, but the complaint needs to go in...

I am also frankly gobsmacked at the attude attributed to Olly Byrne as well. He should be ashamed, and yet again Shels fans should question whether such a loose cannon does more good or damage to their club. How many times must the erratic, unreliable and frankly insane actions of the man be tolerated/ignored/dismissed....?

[ThatGuy]

No, he didn't. He cited it as an example of "banter" between players (the comment wasn't made by Ollie) and went on to declare that any player who (by Ollie's somewhat mystifying intepretation) racially abused a team-mate or opponent would be shown the door.

I recall being somewhat stunned upon reading this article, and while I have no doubt that, in the context in which it occurred (i.e., five or more years ago, between working-class team-mates of long standing) no malice was intended, it's the kind of faux pas which could easily get someone sacked in another line of work, and not without justification.

But hey, if your employer has a track record of tacitly condoning mildly racist behaviour, then f*ck it, you deserve to racially abused, eh? :rolleyes:
I thought Ollie said it, if not so be it I was wrong. He still defended the racist comments. As I said in the original post, he thinks that it is appropriate to say that to a Shels player. If you have the interview handy can you post it up?
And I never said, or implied, that Ndo deserved racist abuse, on the contrary actually.

Also, I believe Ollie does see it as banter. I don't believe that he is racist, I think he views things slightly differently as Big Ron does. I don't believe either really are racist to be honest.

[Poor Student]

I have no faith in UEFA doing anything about it though, but the complaint needs to go in...


With all due respect, it's so endemic in many Eastern European countries I don't even know how UEFA could tackle it short of something massive like banning any club outright until it stops.

I think we should give this a rest. What we're talking about happened years ago and people here don't even seem to be consistent on what was said. Sheridan offers a slightly different perspective on it and seems to be most clear. The person making thse complaints isn't even Byrne, it is Fenlon. People are hijacking this to persue their own anti-Ollie Byrne agendas here in my opinion.

[Sheridan]

I don't have it to hand (and I think Hot Press has gone subscription-based since), but I remember it distinctly. What was even more troubling was that the journalist failed to highlight the implicit contradiction in Ollie's comments.

[bigmac]

I'm no olly fan, and to say that in a national publication is totally out of order, however he does have a point.

I have quite a few coloured friends, Africans, Indians, Pakistanis etc. and with good friends, some jokes and banter do occur that would definitely be considered racist outside this circle. Examples could be a black friend always telling us white guys that we have smaller dicks than him, or calling a pakistani friend Osama. In one sense it's like black rappers using the N word - in their situation it's not considered racist.
In our group, the licence to use terms that might be considered racist is something that has been earned over a long period of friendship, similar to nicknames that could otherwise be offensive.

However, when players are racially abused for colour, or religion, or even having played for Rangers once upon a time the clubs involved should clamp down hard on it. It is endemic throughout Europe and something needs to be done. However, the recent situations in Spain don't leave me hopeful that a low profile game such as this will even register amongst the blazers at UEFA.

[superfrank]

I think this wasn't expected cos we like to think it doesn't go on anymore but it does. Fair play to the lads for getting on with their job. Ndo did a lovely turn on th edge of the area and the crowd must've felt stupid.

I have never heard of this Ollie incident. The one racist incident I remember in the eircom League is when the Dublin City captain racially abused Wes Charles. Charles knocked him out and he was sent off.

[TheOwl]

I am also frankly gobsmacked at the comments attributed to Olly Byrne as well. He should be ashamed, and yet again Shels fans should question whether such a loose cannon does more good or damage to their club....

We do all the time - people here think us Shels fans hold him up as some God? Check most of our post histories and you will see what we think of him.

As for you statement "When Olly speaks he speaks for Shels - whether you like what he says or not". I don't buy that one bit - we are not a totalitarian state, we are a football club.

Louis Kilcoyne didn't speak for Rovers when he sold Milltown, I don't think Doug Ellis speaks for Villa when he spouts off his rubbish.

You can say what you like about our chairman, but That Guy's statement "It's a bit rich for Shelbourne to complain about racist abuse" places a totally unwarranted racist tag on our FOOTBALL CLUB and that is why it is offensive.

[ThatGuy]

In fairness Owl, I get your point. Poor thread title.

[Poor Student]

Is there any particular point to the thread to use the racist abuse of some Shels players to drag up an old comment by Ollie and attack him? :confused:

[TheOwl]

In fairness Owl, I get your point. Poor thread title.

Thanks for acknowledging that - ceasefire!

[Breifne]

I have never heard of this Ollie incident. The one racist incident I remember in the eircom League is when the Dublin City captain racially abused Wes Charles. Charles knocked him out and he was sent off.

The alleged incident wasn't the Dublin City captain of the day, not going to mention names, but Bray came out saying that there was no racial abuse, and I know for a fact, it was investigated within Dublin City, when allegations were published here. The club were satisfied with their findings that no improper conduct took place.

I'm sure no such action would be condoned by anyone associated with Dublin City.

[Sheridan]

I have never heard of this Ollie incident. The one racist incident I remember in the eircom League is when the Dublin City captain racially abused Wes Charles. Charles knocked him out and he was sent off.
He's not our captain. The supporters club raised this matter with the club at the time and were informed that, since no report or complaint had been filed by Wes Charles, Bray or the match officials, there wasn't a lot they could do without verification. I have very little time for the player allegedly involved (he's a nasty piece of work sometimes, and no longer a regular), but it sounds like natural justice took its course, if anything untoward did indeed occur.

[Anto McC]

I am also frankly gobsmacked at the attude attributed to Olly Byrne as well. He should be ashamed, and yet again Shels fans should question whether such a loose cannon does more good or damage to their club.

He does more good,plain and simple

[superfrank]

Friends of mine that were at the match heard a Dublin City player, with the captain's armband on, racially abuse Wes Charles.

But if the Dublin City officials investigated then that's a good thing.

[thejollyrodger]

in fairness, you cant compare one ignorant individual making a racist remark to a stadium errupting in a chorus of racist chanting. The scale of the thing is completly different.

I am totally against racist remarks and people saying them should get punished in one form or another.

The Shelbourne person should have been punished if not already done so. Those facists in Romania last night should have a massive fine slapped on their club.

[NY Hoop]

He does more good,plain and simple

I would presume you're joking. A convicted criminal running one of the country's so called bigger clubs. Punching Roddy from behind, trying to take a banner from Derry fans, in trouble at I dont know how many grounds for reacting to well deserved abuse etc etc.

Get it through your head. This guy is a cancer to the league and the sooner he goes the better.

KOH

[Hibs4Ever]

I would presume you're joking. A convicted criminal running one of the country's so called bigger clubs. Punching Roddy from behind, trying to take a banner from Derry fans, in trouble at I dont know how many grounds for reacting to well deserved abuse etc etc.

Get it through your head. This guy is a cancer to the league and the sooner he goes the better.

KOH


Well said NY Hoop. The man is poison, pure sc*m :mad:

[Anto McC]

I would presume you're joking. A convicted criminal running one of the country's so called bigger clubs. Punching Roddy from behind, trying to take a banner from Derry fans, in trouble at I dont know how many grounds for reacting to well deserved abuse etc etc.

Get it through your head. This guy is a cancer to the league and the sooner he goes the better.

KOH

So you as a Shams man are trying to tell me as a Shels man that Ollie Byrne does more bad for Shelbourne than he does good,is that what you are saying

[pineapple stu]

I would presume you're joking. A convicted criminal running one of the country's so called bigger clubs. Punching Roddy from behind, trying to take a banner from Derry fans, in trouble at I dont know how many grounds for reacting to well deserved abuse etc etc.
You forgot trying to screw a fellow club (us) out of E20k. Fortunately, that was one of the few occasions when someone stood up to Ollie and won by the rule-book.

The sad part is...he used to play for UCD...! :o

[exile]

So you as a Shams man are trying to tell me as a Shels man that Ollie Byrne does more bad for Shelbourne than he does good,is that what you are saying


what about the shams fans doing more bad than good ;)

[Jaime]

I would presume you're joking. A convicted criminal running one of the country's so called bigger clubs. Punching Roddy from behind, trying to take a banner from Derry fans, in trouble at I dont know how many grounds for reacting to well deserved abuse etc etc.

Get it through your head. This guy is a cancer to the league and the sooner he goes the better.

KOH

All that being as it is, I think the work he does for Shels, and particularly his "fund-raising" outweigh, at least to Shels fans, the damage he does to the club. A lot of people seem to think that Shels could get a lot more sponsorship if he ****ed off, but in fairness, unless he decides to, no-one will know.

[hoops1]

Best fans in the league saved the club!
Travel in numbers!
Fantaical!
Unlike some whos fans dissapear when the team needs them most
after a bad season or two

[Anto McC]

what about the shams fans doing more bad than good ;)

Well they have some amount of scum supporting them but the fans do more good than bad imo but i'm not going to lecture a Shams fan about their club,get the hint ;)

[Sliogán Dóite]

I'm no olly fan, and to say that in a national publication is totally out of order, however he does have a point.

I have quite a few coloured friends, Africans, Indians, Pakistanis etc. and with good friends, some jokes and banter do occur that would definitely be considered racist outside this circle. Examples could be a black friend always telling us white guys that we have smaller dicks than him, or calling a pakistani friend Osama. In one sense it's like black rappers using the N word - in their situation it's not considered racist.
In our group, the licence to use terms that might be considered racist is something that has been earned over a long period of friendship, similar to nicknames that could otherwise be offensive

Exactly, if you say something to your friend about being a blond(e), it isn't deemed offensive it is only joking/messing...

[monutdfc]

The sad part is...he used to play for UCD...! :o

Ollie played for UCD ???????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[pineapple stu]

Apparently. I think he was a teammate of Brian Lenihan's...! Obviously way before we came into the league; back when we were a pure student team.

[Roverstillidie]

Exactly, if you say something to your friend about being a blond(e), it isn't deemed offensive it is only joking/messing...

i dont even know where to begin with that banquet of b ollocks.

are you for real?