Republic of Ireland V Norway - Thursday, 17th November 2022 - Friendly

[samhaydenjr]

Well, that's 90 minutes of my life I won't get back. Just to echo what's been said here about how bad that was, especially the first half - the most striking thing was how often we got squeezed in possession by a fairly tame press and forced back to Bazunu - incidentally, having watched Kelleher in the League Cup game, I now see how his superior ability on the ball could make him a better option if we insist on this style of play - he actually presents an option to keep a passing move going, whereas Bazunu is an outlet when we've run out of options, if you get my drift.

I don't even see how that type of football is considered pleasing to watch - I was bored to tears. I'd now be happier if we gave the ball away more regularly just getting it up there and then fighting to get it back - just give it a lash. It's really depressing that we're now accepting a dogfight for a distant third in our qualifying group is the best we can hope for. Barring a miraculous turnaround, this can't go on beyond this campaign - we wasted six of the peak years of Keane, Duff, O'Shea, Dunne, Given, Finnan, Reid etc with managers who just were not up to this level - let's not do it again with the youngsters coming through. We need somebody with solid Championship experience, at least

[Stuttgart88]

The thing I like about Robinson is how often he seems able to wriggle past a defender or find some other way to bring the ball into dangerous areas. He tries things, and sometimes that means giving it away, but so be it. Forwards have to take risks to make to things happen.

I like him.

I like him too. He was our brightest player for a decent spell last year. But I thought he was well off it last night.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't even see how that type of football is considered pleasing to watch - I was bored to tears. I'd now be happier if we gave the ball away more regularly just getting it up there and then fighting to get it back - just give it a lash. It's really depressing that we're now accepting a dogfight for a distant third in our qualifying group is the best we can hope for. That'd change with a genuinely creative footballer in Browne's position imho. We had good width last night, but that's all we had and Norway knew it.

[tetsujin1979]

I thought the only reason we had width was because Norway were forcing our wingers out wide! O'Dowda was being isolated, and the supply to Doherty was being blocked, I guessed he had been identified as a danger so the ball was kept away from him

[Stuttgart88]

Well surely that only amplifies the absence of a creative player ahead of Molumby and Cullen?

[paul_oshea]

I've seen nothing different from the first couple of games and what we saw last night. Or to be honest most other nights. I'm genuinely interested to understand what others saw that's anyway different, genuinely different, to what we saw last night and previous nights. What's also interesting for those who watch Ireland on a more adhoc basis there's still a sense of " we're good to watch ", " who else could you get ". Strange how some less frequent Irish footballing people think kicking the ball around the back is better to watch

[pineapple stu]

I've seen nothing different from the first couple of games and what we saw last night. Or to be honest most other nights.
I thought we were worse last night that we have been in a long while. Most of the time under Kenny you can at least see what we're trying to do in terms of neat passing football; we're just not good enough to do it.

Last night, Cullen played facing his own defence for most of the time, and the defenders racked up a big number of passes between themselves. Largely useless stuff.

I've also said on here before that I try not to read anything into managers' post-game comments because they're usually about trying to give as little away as possible. But Kenny's post-game comments often seem completely removed from what happened in the game, as Hamann called out last night (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/1117/1336818-hamann-kenny-must-have-been-watching-different-game/), and it really doesn't help inspire confidence if the manager can't articulate why we were so flat and instead defends the performance.

[passinginterest]

I've seen nothing different from the first couple of games and what we saw last night. Or to be honest most other nights. I'm genuinely interested to understand what others saw that's anyway different, genuinely different, to what we saw last night and previous nights. What's also interesting for those who watch Ireland on a more adhoc basis there's still a sense of " we're good to watch ", " who else could you get ". Strange how some less frequent Irish footballing people think kicking the ball around the back is better to watch

It's a tough one to quantify. In other games there was always a sense of urgency or a sense that with the possession, if not clear chances, at least danger was being created. Norway were so comfortable defending the balls into the box that there wasn't even a sense of danger to create some excitement. It was a weird game, Norway played more like you expect the smaller teams to play, very compact, happy to hit on the break but with more quality that the average minnow and we've been completely toothless in those scenarios far too often. The really frustrating thing is that Norway didn't score from a chance created in open play, so there's certainly an argument that the overall system worked ok in many respects, but we conceded two very basic set pieces.

At the other end, Obafemi needs either a big man or a creative 10 beside him, to get on the ball and play it in behind for him. Himself and Robinson just didn't work, I'm not sure Obafemi had more than two touches in the first half, we couldn't get the ball near him. I do feel a bit for Kenny in that the three biggest stars from his under 21s, that we had high hopes for in terms of attacking options have all failed to make the impact we needed. Idah, Parrott and Connolly were the players we thought might bridge the Robbie Keane goal scoring chasm but they've all hit issues with injury, form or attitude. Robinson keeps floating around championship teams because he's maddeningly inconsistent, and none of the other options (Hogan, Keane, etc. look like they'll be any better and missed a big chance in this window).

I do believe that the more possession-based game is the way forward. Again, statistically we ended up with more shots, more corners, more possession, all things that should be helping us to win more games. The longer we struggle to create and score the more it looks like Kenny might be finished, the main think I'd look for from another manager would be more dynamic in game management and active use of subs. Smallbone or McGrath might well have offered something more in terms of unlocking Norway if they'd been given a half hour and instead we got 15 minutes of Hendrick. That's the way to lose support quickly (and I wouldn't be as critical of Hendrick in general as many)!

[weldoninhio]

I thought we were worse last night that we have been in a long while. Most of the time under Kenny you can at least see what we're trying to do in terms of neat passing football; we're just not good enough to do it.

Last night, Cullen played facing his own defence for most of the time, and the defenders racked up a big number of passes between themselves. Largely useless stuff.

I've also said on here before that I try not to read anything into managers' post-game comments because they're usually about trying to give as little away as possible. But Kenny's post-game comments often seem completely removed from what happened in the game, as Hamann called out last night (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/1117/1336818-hamann-kenny-must-have-been-watching-different-game/), and it really doesn't help inspire confidence if the manager can't articulate why we were so flat and instead defends the performance.

I think that’s a bit of confirmation bias, which is understandable. What we saw last night was a regression back to the Kennyball we saw pre-Anthony Barry. Lots of pointless passing from defender to defender pumping the stats.

[Stuttgart88]

I do believe that the more possession-based game is the way forward. Again, statistically we ended up with more shots, more corners, more possession, all things that should be helping us to win more games. The longer we struggle to create and score the more it looks like Kenny might be finished, the main think I'd look for from another manager would be more dynamic in game management and active use of subs. Smallbone or McGrath might well have offered something more in terms of unlocking Norway if they'd been given a half hour and instead we got 15 minutes of Hendrick. That's the way to lose support quickly (and I wouldn't be as critical of Hendrick in general as many)!I do too. Kenny may not be the man to deliver it but the mindset/philosophy that we’re an inferior footballing nation who must be direct to be competitive has to stay in the past. And I think we’re far enough into that journey now to think it’s worth continuing. We now have two goalkeepers who can use their feet well (Baz made a bad mistake last night but I still think he’s generally very accurate), three or four CBs who can use the ball and two or three CMs keen to get on the ball. That’s a good foundation and I think there are emerging players who can contribute to a contemporary style of playing too.

Despite justified criticism I think there has been a big positive step forward taken since the final days of MON and the worst games of Mick Season 2 (which were against the lesser teams) and I think if nothing else Kenny has integrated several young players who will be the mainstay of the side for a decade. The frustration is that others (Idah, Parrott, Connolly…) have had setbacks of various types and I think opportunities to make further progress have been frustrated by external factors but also very definitely self-inflicted ones.


(PS: did anyone notice a passage of play around 25 mins last night when Doc had got past his man and was in prime position to receive a basic ball between full back and centre back and would almost certainly have been able to shoot or put in a square ball on the deck, but our midfilder (Browne?) saw the run and instead turned back into midfield. It didn't need a player of Odergaard's ability to play such a simple and obvious pass.)

[Exgrad]

(PS: did anyone notice a passage of play around 25 mins last night when Doc had got past his man and was in prime position to receive a basic ball between full back and centre back and would almost certainly have been able to shoot or put in a square ball on the deck, but our midfilder (Browne?) saw the run and instead turned back into midfield. It didn't need a player of Odergaard's ability to play such a simple and obvious pass.)

Yes! Wrecked my head. Pretty sure it was Molumby but havent watched it back. So conservative in our play last night, unless it was the keeper or a defender of course. We have Norway so much time to get back into shape (which they were pretty good at doing in fairness).

[seanfhear]

Surely if we lose to Malta ! ?

Then the Kenny era is over ! !

[paul_oshea]

Awful, awful stuff. How much more of this will we have to endure? It was obvious 18 months ago this was going to be a disaster and - other than a short good spell at the end of the World Cup campaign that was almost certainly down to Anthony Barry's influence - nothing has changed.
.

Interestingly that debate has died down now.

[Diggs246]

Surely if we lose to Malta ! ?

Then the Kenny era is over ! !

No is the answer the FAI are weak fools
The ceo Hill hasn't even moved to Ireland
He should be sacked with kenny.

I would say we would need to lose 3 nil for the board to have a think about.

[DCWA]

If we lose (or fail to win) against Malta there is a side factor that may come into play and that is the likely availability of x amount of experienced intl managers that will become available in the next few weeks…

[Diggs246]

If we lose (or fail to win) against Malta there is a side factor that may come into play and that is the likely availability of x amount of experienced intl managers that will become available in the next few weeks…

You mean after the WC?
Thats a good point. Not sure who would be suitable though

[pineapple stu]

Or affordable

[backstothewall]

You mean after the WC?
Thats a good point. Not sure who would be suitable though

How would people feel about Carols Queiroz?

[Diggs246]

How would people feel about Carols Queiroz?

At the moment I would take Carlos the jackal

[lofty9]

Made the long journey again after the cup final on Sunday. I left just before the winner to get a headstart up the road. I wanted to see how the likes of Smallbone would get on with it being a friendly, nothing to lose. When he brought Hendrick and Brady on I lost a huge lot of respect for his management. He was given the chance to get rid of Hourihane and he didnt have the balls to do so after the squad was announced. I'm waning.

[Stuttgart88]

How would people feel about Carols Queiroz?

I saw him on Twitter last night and wondered the same.

[osarusan]

How would people feel about Carols Queiroz?

Could we afford him? I'd be surprised if Iran are paying him only/less than 500,000 euro a year.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I wouldn't say we could afford what he would be expecting. Besides, I wouldn't say he's that impressive as an international coach, and his experience within UEFA in that context is especially unspectacular. The Iranians seems to adore him alright, but the best he's done with them is an Asian Cup semi-final where they got thumped by Japan (which, relative to the weakness of that confederation, doesn't strike me as a brilliant return).

[Exgrad]

Kenny signed a new contract only months ago...he's going nowhere...

last night so disappointing...sterile conservative football on and off the pitch. Kenny may have lost his nerve.

[Olé Olé]

Kenny signed a new contract only months ago...he's going nowhere...

last night so disappointing...sterile conservative football on and off the pitch. Kenny may have lost his nerve.

No, I didn't see much evidence of nerve last night. We clearly had an extra man midfield and instead of shifting that body forward by bringing in, say, Ogbene for Molumby we brought him on for Obafemi (who was very poor and might not be suited to playing with Robinson which Kenny should have identified).

[Exgrad]

Queiroz..failed to qualify Columbia for the 2022 World Cup, then failed to qualify Eygpt for the 2022 World Cup, and yet still ends up at the 2022 World Cup with Iran (who he had nothing to do with qualifying). Whats not to like?

[Razors left peg]

At the moment I would take Carlos the jackal
Every Portuguese football fan I know despises him. Personally I don't like him from his time at United. I'd want nothing to do with him.

I think Jim Goodwin would be my choice to replace Kenny. Done well with both St Mirren and Aberdeen. He wouldn't be on ridiculous money and I think I remember quotes from him in the past where he said he'd love to manage Ireland (not 100% I'm remembering right)

[Diggs246]

Every Portuguese football fan I know despises him. Personally I don't like him from his time at United. I'd want nothing to do with him.

I think Jim Goodwin would be my choice to replace Kenny. Done well with both St Mirren and Aberdeen. He wouldn't be on ridiculous money and I think I remember quotes from him in the past where he said he'd love to manage Ireland (not 100% I'm remembering right)

I hear you re Jim but no more risks for awhile
Chris hughton would tick my box

[MichaelCherrito]

How would people feel about Carols Queiroz?

He’s always been agood assistant coach but a terrible manager/head coach.

[passinginterest]

Chris hughton would tick my box

I had a lot of respect for Chris Hughton, he did wonders with some limited teams in the past and he was a leading light in terms of coaching in his day, but the game has passed him by. He stopped evolving as the game changed and he's been completely found out in his last few jobs. We'd be going backwards in the worst possible way if he was to replace Kenny.

[Diggs246]

I had a lot of respect for Chris Hughton, he did wonders with some limited teams in the past and he was a leading light in terms of coaching in his day, but the game has passed him by. He stopped evolving as the game changed and he's been completely found out in his last few jobs. We'd be going backwards in the worst possible way if he was to replace Kenny.

You mean his last job not jobs re forrest
I still think he might have something to offer, lets be fair

[D24Saint]

I had a lot of respect for Chris Hughton, he did wonders with some limited teams in the past and he was a leading light in terms of coaching in his day, but the game has passed him by. He stopped evolving as the game changed and he's been completely found out in his last few jobs. We'd be going backwards in the worst possible way if he was to replace Kenny.

That seems to suggest we are moving forward under Kenny , are we ?

[Razors left peg]

I hear you re Jim but no more risks for awhile
Chris hughton would tick my box
I think Goodwin would be less of a risk than Hughton at this point.

[Eirambler]

Plenty of managers out there that aren't Irish, we're looking for the best man for the job, not necessarily the best Irish man for the job.

[jbyrne]

came away very depressed from last nights game. in the build up the players were quoted saying it was a great rehearsal for the euro qualifies..... if that kind of flat, overly risk averse performance is a rehearsal for france in march we are well and truly in big trouble.

one think i've noticed recently is that our centre halfs in particular keep finding themselves in positions they shouldn't really be in. pretty sure collins found himself out on the wing a few times. that sort of positional indiscipline against the better sides and we will be destroyed.

[SkStu]

Interesting you mention that jbyrne - reminded me of a similar comment I made about Collins after Armenia. His positional indiscipline actually cost us a goal against them if you ask me, so not just the better teams. Obviously didn’t see the game last night or the passage you’re referring to but he simply has to stamp that stuff out.

https://foot.ie/threads/278272-Republic-of-Ireland-V-Armenia-Tuesday-27th-September-2022-UEFA-Nations-League?p=2125507&viewfull=1#post2125507


Other other comment: Collins also p*asked me off a bit before they scored. He had clearly switched off a bit and thought we had it all done. There was one passage right before their goal where he was raving around the place just outside their box, our most forward player, trying to close down their defenders (which he did successfully tbf, they punted back to us) but he took an absolute age to get back into position and then looked really casual afterwards. He picked back up performance wise after they scored. He, like Bazunu, needs to stay switched on. Both young enough that they?ll figure it out.

[osarusan]

In terms of managers we can afford, who play passing football, and who are at a stage in their career where Ireland would be an attractive option, pickings will be slim I'd say.

[paul_oshea]

Interesting you mention that jbyrne - reminded me of a similar comment I made about Collins after Armenia. His positional indiscipline actually cost us a goal against them if you ask me, so not just the better teams. Obviously didn’t see the game last night or the passage you’re referring to but he simply has to stamp that stuff out.

https://foot.ie/threads/278272-Republic-of-Ireland-V-Armenia-Tuesday-27th-September-2022-UEFA-Nations-League?p=2125507&viewfull=1#post2125507

He's a midfielder trapped inside a centre backs body, wants to rove and roam

[Exgrad]

Collins looked very ragged last night. Relegation last year followed by another relegation battle this year has probably sapped his confidence a bit..

[seanfhear]

Michael O’Neill ~ ~ Stoke haven’t exactly set the world a light after getting rid of him ~ ~ They probably should have kept him in place.

[OwlsFan]

First half was one of the most boring I've seen following Ireland. One shot in 45 minutes and pointless passing back and forth between the back three. Our only attacking play was the cross-field pass to the wing backs. Nothing creative in midfield. No one twos. However, end of season games are notoriously uneventful and this one lived up to the billing. Great turnout and no booing at the end. Kenny's performance on the sideline was like the game. Nothing except when we scored or they scored. Otherwise he just stood there staring. Still, knowing football as we do, the next home game could be totally different. Thought it was terrible though and we didn't even see a replay of the Norway first goal.

[liamoo11]

Michael O’Neill ~ ~ Stoke haven’t exactly set the world a light after getting rid of him ~ ~ They probably should have kept him in place.

That's would feel like a backward step to me. Poor style of football at Stoke.

[seanfhear]

That's would feel like a backward step to me. Poor style of football at Stoke.
Relatively very successful with Northern Ireland ~ ~ International Manager ~ ~ Important.

We can probably afford him ( maybe ) ~ ~ I’d say he would be a big step up from Stephen Kenny anyway.

[Jd2793]

death over hughton

[Diggs246]

death over hughton

Big Sam?!

[elatedscum]

Michael O’Neill, Carlos Q… bottom of the barrel stuff.

Carlos would make Trap look like a Klopp style attacking genius. His Iran side were genuinely a contender for the worst footballing side I’ve ever seen. The only other contender that comes to mind is Michael’s NI.

[SkStu]

I feel a bit dirty getting into the successor discussion already but what about Ralph Hasenhuttl? Might be the natural successor to Kenny in terms of style and approach to the game. Could we afford him?

[dynamo kerry]

Lads. Unless we ask Lee Carsley to have a go we are not trying properly..

[seanfhear]

Lads. Unless we ask Lee Carsley to have a go we are not trying properly..
Well ~ ~ We can certainly ask.

[paul_oshea]

What about Sean Dyche, I think he would go for pragmatism but also he might be willing to give youth a chance. He has proven to get the best out of average players, something we havent seen in an Irish side in a few years now.