Tom Cannon F Sheffield Utd b.2002

[JR89]

He did call him up but was unavailable for the training camp. I'd say all the talk why he didn't go to Turkey was just waffling from Kenny covering for a player. If it was waffle then they could have made a better excuse and just say player has a groin strain and unavailable.

Rather than saying he's not trained in four weeks and lacking match sharpness, but we hope he's with the U21s and also on standby for the seniors just in case.

[Razors left peg]

He did call him up but was unavailable for the training camp. I'd say all the talk why he didn't go to Turkey was just waffling from Kenny covering for a player. If it was waffle then they could have made a better excuse and just say player has a groin strain and unavailable.

Rather than saying he's not trained in four weeks and lacking match sharpness, but we hope he's with the U21s and also on standby for the seniors just in case.

He may legitimately have had tonsillitis so couldnt make the training camp, I dont think that should have been held against him for the next get together, if that is what happened.

Trappatoni did that, especially in his early days. The likes of Paul Green turned up to an early training camp so he was always in the squad because of it.

[JR89]

He may legitimately have had tonsillitis so couldnt make the training camp, I dont think that should have been held against him for the next get together, if that is what happened.

Trappatoni did that, especially in his early days. The likes of Paul Green turned up to an early training camp so he was always in the squad because of it.

Don't think missing the training camp is what kept him out of the training camp for Turkey cause the reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.

Especially if said player is on standby and you only named a 25 man squad rather than 26 cause Ogbene was ruled.

[Razors left peg]

Don't think missing the training camp is what kept him out of the training camp for Turkey cause the reasoning makes no sense whatsoever.

Especially if said player is on standby and you only named a 25 man squad rather than 26 cause Ogbene was ruled.

But thats what Kenny said when he named the squad. He said that he hadnt trained in 4 weeks due to missing the 4 day get together because of tonsillitis. I agree that it makes no sense not to call him up to train for this get together and thats why I wonder if Cannon himself got annoyed and said he couldnt be ar$ed going to the u21s in the middle of the summer

[JR89]

But thats what Kenny said when he named the squad. He said that he hadnt trained in 4 weeks due to missing the 4 day get together because of tonsillitis. I agree that it makes no sense not to call him up to train for this get together and thats why I wonder if Cannon himself got annoyed and said he couldnt be ar$ed going to the u21s in the middle of the summer

While he did say that he could have just been saying it rather than coming straight out saying Cannon is in two minds about a senior call if there's a possibility he is. Wouldn't be the first time a manager said something that wasn't true.

Now if what Kenny said is the truth and he genuinely didn't call him up for those reasons it just makes no sense and Cannons U21 exclusion could be him not being bothered if he was deemed unfit for the seniors as you said.

[tetsujin1979]

There's no evidence for Canon's absence from either the senior or U21 squads for anything other than illness. I've had tonsillitis, more than once, and it's draining. Any more speculation as to his international allegiance should come with accompanying evidence.

I'm really not looking forward to repeating this discussion for every dual qualified player who isn't included in a squad.

[Razors left peg]

There's no evidence for Canon's absence from either the senior or U21 squads for anything other than illness. I've had tonsillitis, more than once, and it's draining. Any more speculation as to his international allegiance should come with accompanying evidence.

I'm really not looking forward to repeating this discussion for every dual qualified player who isn't included in a squad.

Tets its a forum where we discuss ideas and can speculate to a degree. Its not outrageous to suggest that something doesnt feel right with this one. I understand that its annoying to have this kind of speculation come up from time to time but we are going to have it sometimes based on where we get our pool of players from. If it cant be discussed then what is the point of the forum? This is not the same as the Evan Ferguson to England talk

[tetsujin1979]

There's already been pages of disucssion on two different squad threads, neither of which he was named in. There's been two brief statements from the managers of the respective sides why he wasn't called in, and that's it.
Everything else is speculation, or opinion, and it's draining,

[sadloserkid]

Speculation and opinion is 90% of more or less any thread on any forum.

If Tom Cannon's thread isn't a natural home for some Tom Cannon speculation from time to time I've never understood how foot.ie (or the internet in general) works.

[Razors left peg]

There's already been pages of disucssion on two different squad threads, neither of which he was named in. There's been two brief statements from the managers of the respective sides why he wasn't called in, and that's it.
Everything else is speculation, or opinion, and it's draining,

I'm sorry Tets, but you're wrong here. He was left out of previous squads yes, but in case here there seems to be something strange going on. Kenny said he's not injured, he'd be with the 21s because of he's not trained in too long. Then all of a sudden he's too ill or injured for the u21s. Is he still on standby for the seniors? He didn't seem too ill to be at a Coldplay concert a few days ago.

All this is worth a discussion amongst fans, and honestly your opinion that it's draining to talk about it is pretty much irrelevant. Don't engage if you don't want to, but if you want to shut down all conversation about it then you might as well shut down every page that has opinions rather than just facts. Yes there are times that things get out of hand and the mods have to step in, but no one is being abusive here or claiming that some random journalist in the heart of Argentina has a story that no one else can see.

Going forward, this topic is going to keep coming up. Scotland could make a play for Vata next season if he breaks in at Celtic more regularly.Is foot.ie a place we won't be able to talk about it?

[passinginterest]

He's ours to loose Cannon (sorry)

[CraftyToePoke]

I'd agree here, if this place can't facilitate a bit of talk about this then maybe the point of footdot is being missed & a bit of personal preference overlapping into the moderating. I think also most had had their say & it will all die down naturally again until we know more anyway.

[tetsujin1979]

Speculation and opinion is 90% of more or less any thread on any forum.

If Tom Cannon's thread isn't a natural home for some Tom Cannon speculation from time to time I've never understood how foot.ie (or the internet in general) works.

I moved the posts from the U21 thread earlier.

[Razors left peg]

I moved the posts from the U21 thread earlier.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but even moving it from the u21 thread was over the top considering it was a discussion why he wasn't in that squad. There was only a few posts so it wasn't taking over completely. As CTP said the discussion had pretty much run its course anyway

[Fixer82]

Until we know for sure, we can discuss our opinion on it surely? Isn't that the point of a forum?

[Demesne Lad]

Peter Ridsdale (PNE director) has spoken to Everton:
....."our initial reaction was just to say, ‘what is the situation with Tom Cannon and we’d like him at Preston North End. What’s the deal? Are you interested in selling or do you want to loan him?’, and we’re in their hands.....My understanding, and I can’t speak on behalf of Everton, is that in an ideal world they’d prefer to loan him again." (Liverpool Echo, 7 June).

[JR89]

Said it before I think he'll go out on loan again. Get a full season behind him on loan and only for the club was a mess they likely would have wanted Ellis Simms to get a full season loan too. Similar to Cannon he had a good half season at Sunderland. Played around 500mins less and scored 7 goals. Plus I think Everton aren't gonna improve next season and will be lucky to stay up again.

[pineapple stu]

I presume no similar comments on Troy Parrott...?

[Demesne Lad]

I presume no similar comments on Troy Parrott...?

None. I think the verdict at Deepdale was 'tried hard, good team player, but we needed goals too'. Troy needs a few good pre-season performances to regenerate some interest.

[Razors left peg]

I presume no similar comments on Troy Parrott...?

Troy is at a major crossroads at the moment. I'd love to see him get away from England and the close links to home and see how he gets on somewhere like Portugal. Could suit his game and might put some distance between him and his Dublin mates

[pineapple stu]

I think you'll find a lot of his Dublin mates probably hang out on the Algarve a lot!

[Razors left peg]

I think you'll find a lot of his Dublin mates probably hang out on the Algarve a lot!

Haha fair point

[SkStu]

Said it before I think he'll go out on loan again.

Evidence please.

[LurcherLover]

Evidence please.

Surely you don't need to provide evidence on personal opinion? What evidence needs to be provided for 'thinking' a player will go on loan?

[seanfhear]

Are you in trouble, if you think about the thought police ? !

[Razors left peg]

Surely you don't need to provide evidence on personal opinion? What evidence needs to be provided for 'thinking' a player will go on loan?
Stu was taking the pi$$

[Fixer82]

Are you in trouble, if you think about the thought police ? !

Think so

[seanfhear]

Think so
Got Ya.

[Diggs246]

https://www.balls.ie/football/tom-cannon-ireland-england-switch-558565

This won't help peoples fears

[John83]

Balls.ie are quoting the S*n on this. Quotes in the S*n consist entirely of Martin O'Neill on Grealish and Rice. Not a sausage from the FA. I'm thinking this is the rag **** stirring. It's the international equivalent of a transfer rumour.

[Diggs246]

Balls.ie are quoting the S*n on this. Quotes in the S*n consist entirely of Martin O'Neill on Grealish and Rice. Not a sausage from the FA. I'm thinking this is the rag **** stirring. It's the international equivalent of a transfer rumour.

I'm not on social media but if he's deleted his Irish stuff as per article. That's not good. But the whole thing might be a storm in a tea cup. If he was healthy and turned down a place in the squad for Greece then, best of luck to him he's made his choice. Ferguson and obefemi could be a very exciting attach team. Would also love willy smallborne playing in advanced midfield role with them

[Razors left peg]

Balls.ie are quoting the S*n on this. Quotes in the S*n consist entirely of Martin O'Neill on Grealish and Rice. Not a sausage from the FA. I'm thinking this is the rag **** stirring. It's the international equivalent of a transfer rumour.

He has deleted the only Irish thing from his Instagram page which was a post about his u21 debut. Either 1 of 2 things has happened here I think...

it could be he legitimately had tonsillitis for the training camp but then wasn't happy he didn't get call up for senior squad and told the u21s no.

Or he has been hedging, didn't want to commit to the seniors and the tonsillitis story was there to buy time.

Deleting the social media stuff seems to me to be more from the 1st option, he's not happy to be left out and is being a child about it. It's happened a few times in US sports recently that players have deleted all reference to their team during contract negotiations. There's no contract in Cannons case obviously, but I do think it's s hissy fit.

I also think it's slightly different here than Rice and Grealish in that they went straight into England squads. Cannon is a bit away from that yet, so if he's pulling out its for their u21s. I just hope that there's no covering up for him here, if he's gone then the FAI need to come out immediately and say he wasn't committed and he's gone. We don't want this dragging on.

[Supreme feet]

I was a bit worried about this.

At first glance, England seem stacked with strikers at senior level, but beyond Kane and Rashford it's a mixed bag. Watkins, Nketiah and Abraham have poor enough scoring records. Wilson and Calvert-Lewin are sicknotes. Toney has his issues. Ings and Bamford have made squads in recent years, and have dropped off. There's an opportunity for any young English striker to get into that squad with a good goalscoring run in the EPL, and you'd have to imagine Cannon's agent encouraging him towards that potential pathway. Cameron Archer is their U21s first choice striker, and he's of a very similar profile to Cannon - fringes of an EPL club, good recent form on loan in the Championship.

On the other hand, there's every chance that Cannon could turn out to be another Scott Hogan, and not even good enough for us, let alone England.

[JR89]

He has deleted the only Irish thing from his Instagram page which was a post about his u21 debut. Either 1 of 2 things has happened here I think...

it could be he legitimately had tonsillitis for the training camp but then wasn't happy he didn't get call up for senior squad and told the u21s no.

Or he has been hedging, didn't want to commit to the seniors and the tonsillitis story was there to buy time.

Deleting the social media stuff seems to me to be more from the 1st option, he's not happy to be left out and is being a child about it. It's happened a few times in US sports recently that players have deleted all reference to their team during contract negotiations. There's no contract in Cannons case obviously, but I do think it's s hissy fit.

I also think it's slightly different here than Rice and Grealish in that they went straight into England squads. Cannon is a bit away from that yet, so if he's pulling out its for their u21s. I just hope that there's no covering up for him here, if he's gone then the FAI need to come out immediately and say he wasn't committed and he's gone. We don't want this dragging on.

Jack Grealish didn't go straight into the England squad he switched to play U21s with England.

[Razors left peg]

Jack Grealish didn't go straight into the England squad he switched to play U21s with England.

Did he? I'm remembering it wrong then. My memory of it was that after the cup game in Wembley the calls from England became strong and he switched. I think in Cannons case there hasn't been that big moment and the average England fan still wouldn't know who he is

[Diggs246]

If its real it's a terrible decision
He's a fine player, but that's it. He would need to transform into a new player to be england stricker.( It's happened before sure but it's so rare ) Everton have already said he isn't coming home next season. If you aren't making the team that survived on the last day. Your quite frankly doing well to be playing for us.
On that note Ferguson and obefemi are currently way better players then him.

[tetsujin1979]

Jack Grealish didn't go straight into the England squad he switched to play U21s with England.
Rice went straight into their senior side. Grealish had played competitive U21 games, so had to wait a year to switch and play for their U21s

[JR89]

Rice went straight into their senior side. Grealish had played competitive U21 games, so had to wait a year to switch and play for their U21s

Yup so actually took him longer to get a senior cap. Was four years after he got his first England cap at any level before a senior cap. Thought he switched mid campaign for us so couldn't play 21s for them but could play seniors if they wanted him to.

Remember alright he pulled out of our campaign mid way and did take him awhile before switching. If Cannon does switch at least he's doing it now before the campaign kicks off.

[elatedscum]

Yup so actually took him longer to get a senior cap. Was four years after he got his first England cap at any level before a senior cap. Thought he switched mid campaign for us so couldn't play 21s for them but could play seniors if they wanted him to.

Remember alright he pulled out of our campaign mid way and did take him awhile before switching. If Cannon does switch at least he's doing it now before the campaign kicks off.

The story was that Hodgson had promised him a call up straight to the senior side (after the FA Cup performance against Liverpool) - but once he’d made the switch Roy reneged on that promise.

Southgate was also kinda **** with Grealish - saying he wouldn’t consider players playing in the championship, then calling up Phillips before he’d played in the premier league to stop him declaring for Ireland

[seanfhear]

The story was that Hodgson had promised him a call up straight to the senior side (after the FA Cup performance against Liverpool) - but once he’d made the switch Roy reneged on that promise.

Southgate was also kinda **** with Grealish - saying he wouldn’t consider players playing in the championship, then calling up Phillips before he’d played in the premier league to stop him declaring for IrelandPerfidious.

[Eirambler]

If Cannon does switch at least he's doing it now before the campaign kicks off.

Well he needs to drop out before the campaign kicks off, because if he plays a minute for us in the qualifiers then he can't play for England Under 21s. And realistically he'll have a fair wait for an English senior call, if one ever comes his way. So the timing is not a coincidence - he needs to be out of the Irish system before the campaign starts to allow him to play for England Under 21s - if we had had a qualifier in March rather than a friendly he'd have been tied for this campaign and I doubt the English FA would have bothered going after him.

[Paddy Garcia]

The story was that Hodgson had promised him a call up straight to the senior side (after the FA Cup performance against Liverpool) - but once he’d made the switch Roy reneged on that promise.

Southgate was also kinda **** with Grealish - saying he wouldn’t consider players playing in the championship, then calling up Phillips before he’d played in the premier league to stop him declaring for Ireland

I'd never heard before that Phillips was considering declaring for us!

[Eirambler]

I think he was using us as a tactic to get an England cap to be honest. I don't think it was ever 100% confirmed that he was actually eligible for us.

The same nonsense James Maddison was at.

[elatedscum]

I think he was using us as a tactic to get an England cap to be honest. I don't think it was ever 100% confirmed that he was actually eligible for us.

The same nonsense James Maddison was at.

Pretty sure his grandparents on his mother’s side are Irish (his mother confirmed on Twitter) and he was eligible for Jamaica via a grandparent on his father’s side.

He was 24 and had never played for England at any youth level, so there was no issue there…

[JR89]

1667986833060274176

[liamoo11]

1667986833060274176

It would be good if we could close the posts on this now to save the abuse for him. Best of luck to him no point staying if your heart isn't in it

[CraftyToePoke]

It would be good if we could close the posts on this now to save the abuse for him. Best of luck to him no point staying if your heart isn't in it

This is only getting going liamoo. Senior cap for us in September or 21s with England is where its headed in all likelihood, he only needs to miss a few August sitters to start feeling Irish again after all.

[liamoo11]

This is only getting going liamoo. Senior cap for us in September or 21s with England is where its headed in all likelihood, he only needs to miss a few August sitters to start feeling Irish again after all.

This is a leadership versus management moment for Kenny I think. If he wants to stay with us he goes back to the 21s in September regardless of how well he is doing at his club to earn the right to get senior caps

[SkStu]

Not surprised. No abuse incoming at all I’d say though. He hasn’t screwed is around at all (unlike Rice, abuse merited). The connection there with Cannon and is is weak enough, let’s be honest, and it’s understandable if his heart lies elsewhere. It’s good that it’s come now and I think CTP is right. But kinda hard to interpret Kenny’s comments fully - like you’d hope putting it out there like that came with Moyes/Cannons blessing in some way or it would be a bit self-defeating and/or he knows the end already and doesn’t care about doing damage. Seems unlikely it’s the latter but who knows. If the door is truly still open to him committing to the green jersey I’d be saying to him at the meeting - “all things being equal, it’s you and Ferguson up front in Autumn and for the next 10+ years. Join us now or let’s leave it be”.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how involved Lee Carsely would be in this move?

[JR89]

I'd say Carsley has more important things to worry about with the U21 Euros starting next week and could well be out of a job next month.