Marketing the League of Ireland

[culloty82]

An interesting graphic was posted on social media today by a European sports marketing company stating the football leagues that had the greatest growth potential, and surprisingly, Ireland topped the list ahead of Germany:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff08BBJWQAI1xNo?format=jpg&name=large

It seems the criteria through which the index was calibrated include attendances, revenues, players and media rights, the question being how clubs can sustainably grow in all areas, similar to what happened with Irish rugby at the turn of the millennium. TV coverage will require a collective response before there is any improvement, but continuous community engagement would seem the way forward for individual clubs to prosper, as the post-Covid seasons are proving.

[EatYerGreens]

An interesting graphic was posted on social media today by a European sports marketing company stating the football leagues that had the greatest growth potential, and surprisingly, Ireland topped the list ahead of Germany:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff08BBJWQAI1xNo?format=jpg&name=large

It seems the criteria through which the index was calibrated include attendances, revenues, players and media rights, the question being how clubs can sustainably grow in all areas, similar to what happened with Irish rugby at the turn of the millennium. TV coverage will require a collective response before there is any improvement, but continuous community engagement would seem the way forward for individual clubs to prosper, as the post-Covid seasons are proving.

Would love to see the stats behind the ranking, but would broadly agree with this. Ireland's league is woefully under-performing in tersm of appeal and impact. The country has a relatively small population, but a big global diaspora who are to varying degres interested and supportive of Irish things. Plus the country is fairly rich now, and has a fast growing population.

Am surprised to see Germany and Italy in there, as you would think that football couldn't get much bigger in those places. Hence why I'd be keen to see the stats behind the rankings.

[Philosophizer]

I don?t think that surprising at all. In fact it?s an indictment that?s our league has basically been ignored by the fai for decades.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

Would love to see the stats behind the ranking, but would broadly agree with this. Ireland's league is woefully under-performing in tersm of appeal and impact. The country has a relatively small population, but a big global diaspora who are to varying degres interested and supportive of Irish things. Plus the country is fairly rich now, and has a fast growing population.

Am surprised to see Germany and Italy in there, as you would think that football couldn't get much bigger in those places. Hence why I'd be keen to see the stats behind the rankings.


I get Italy , attendances are'nt great , a lot of the stadiums are out of date and the money clubs get from TV deals is probably nowhere near other big leagues

[sbgawa]

Cant help but feel they see massive potential for our league because they have never heard of the GAA and dont understand why our attendances are so bad.
I've seen it in work loads, big european studies where they throw a number at the Irish "Market" but do no appreciable work or reasearch as we are irrelevant.
Maybe im to cynical

[EatYerGreens]

Cant help but feel they see massive potential for our league because they have never heard of the GAA and dont understand why our attendances are so bad.
I've seen it in work loads, big european studies where they throw a number at the Irish "Market" but do no appreciable work or reasearch as we are irrelevant.
Maybe im to cynical

If no-one in Ireland was currently that bothered about football at all, then I think your point would stand.

But you only have to look at how much money, time and energy is invested in British football by Irish people to understand how much better our game could be if it captured even just a decent fraction of that leakage. It's not that Irish people aren't into football - it's just that they aren't currently into Irish football. And addressing that is where the opportunity lies.

[sbgawa]

If no-one in Ireland was currently that bothered about football at all, then I think your point would stand.

But you only have to look at how much money, time and energy is invested in British football by Irish people to understand how much better our game could be if it captured even just a decent fraction of that leakage. It's not that Irish people aren't into football - it's just that they aren't currently into Irish football. And addressing that is where the opportunity lies.

fair point

[Kiki Balboa]

Is there a link for this? What was there methodology? LOI has 3 times more potential growth than second place.

10th- 21
...
2nd- 58
1st- 178

That seems off to me.

[sidewayspasser]

However they came up with those numbers, what strikes me most is that Ireland not only tops the list, but apparently does so by a huge margin.

[ger121]

Low base potentially so lots of room for growth.

[culloty82]

Here is the source of the graphic, which doesn't shed much light on the metrics:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-do-you-think-biggest-unrealised-resource-football-industry-/

Although the commentary on the SPL's absence gives some insight:

https://twitter.com/RobertBlaszczak/status/1584499158978732032

[EatYerGreens]

Here is the source of the graphic, which doesn't shed much light on the metrics:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-do-you-think-biggest-unrealised-resource-football-industry-/

Although the commentary on the SPL's absence gives some insight:

https://twitter.com/RobertBlaszczak/status/1584499158978732032

Without reading that, presumably the SPL is excluded for the same main reasons Spain is :

1) Football already very big in both countries.
2) Their leagues both dominated heavily by just 2 teams for decades, to the point that it is largely useless to support anyone else.

[pineapple stu]

Yet Germany and Italy are there, when football is already very big there and one team has won the league for most of the past decade.

Attendance-wise, the SPL does punch way above its weight in fairness, so I can understand it not being included.

I remember reading the Genesis Report on the LoI and it was appallingly amateurish stuff - it compared LoI attendances to the Heineken Cup for example, foreign teams and all. It wouldn't entirely surprise me if this was done up on similarly vague grounds. We know the LoI is one of Europe's underachievers when you look at the leagues in, say, Denmark or Norway with similar populations and a similar lack of professional history.

[osarusan]

The LOI has potential in the same way that the Markets Field has potential...loads of space for improvement but that won't happen due to lack of interest and money.

[EatYerGreens]

Yet Germany and Italy are there, when football is already very big there and one team has won the league for most of the past decade.

Attendance-wise, the SPL does punch way above its weight in fairness, so I can understand it not being included.

I remember reading the Genesis Report on the LoI and it was appallingly amateurish stuff - it compared LoI attendances to the Heineken Cup for example, foreign teams and all. It wouldn't entirely surprise me if this was done up on similarly vague grounds. We know the LoI is one of Europe's underachievers when you look at the leagues in, say, Denmark or Norway with similar populations and a similar lack of professional history.

I would guess Germany's league 'under-performs' in European terms because the ownership structure of its clubs (50% +1 fan owned) prevents almost all of their clubs becoming the play things of rich people. Which is obviously good - but with its population, economy and interest in the game, the German league should really be hands-down the most dominant in Europe. They've only had 3 Champions League winners over the last 23yrs (i.e. this century)

As mentioned by someone else - Italy suffers from poor stadia and low crowds. And its teams aren't as good in Europe as they should be (e.g. 13yrs since an italian team won the Champoions League). So again I wouold guess they're there due to relative under-performance rather than poor performance ?

[Straightstory]

Just saw The Irish Times last Friday. Arsenal's victory over PSV in the Europa League given about five times as much space as the League of Ireland's previews - this at the crucial end of the season with big games including Shamrock Rvs v St Pats. The Irish Times is particularly shameful - and it's a newspaper I've come to despise for many reasons - but it's not untypical of the lack of respect given to the league in some quarters. Incidentally, I think RTE gets the LOI/English Premier League balance about right, and the tabloids give decent coverage. But really, we're the poor relation when it comes to sport in this country. It's the usual Irish story - complete lack of imagination, I'm afraid.

[EatYerGreens]

Just saw The Irish Times last Friday. Arsenal's victory over PSV in the Europa League given about five times as much space as the League of Ireland's previews - this at the crucial end of the season with big games including Shamrock Rvs v St Pats. The Irish Times is particularly shameful - and it's a newspaper I've come to despise for many reasons - but it's not untypical of the lack of respect given to the league in some quarters. Incidentally, I think RTE gets the LOI/English Premier League balance about right, and the tabloids give decent coverage. But really, we're the poor relation when it comes to sport in this country. It's the usual Irish story - complete lack of imagination, I'm afraid.

Definitely true that the tabloids do the best job at covering the League - including special sections at the start of each season. As tabloids tend to be much more responsive and on-the-ball with what their readers want (?), that suggests the broadsheets are behind the curve here. Though I note that the tabloids still often put the LOI into the last section of their sports coverage (just next to the unreadbale ream of horse races information), and still prioritise British teams. So it's only marginally better. It's not unusual for the Irish Times to essentially ignore the LOI soe weeks. I used to subscribe to it online, but don;t bother any more (in part because of their crap LOI coverage).

The wallpaper coverage of English football and ignoring of the Irish game doesn't make much sense in my mind. If you want to read about English football you are literally flooded with options - many of which are far better resourced and much more insightful than Irish journalism of the English game will ever be. The gap in the market in my mind is therefore for good quality coverage of the Irish game - providing an opportunity to stand out in a crowded and very competitive media marketplace. You can still provide the coverage needed of England/Scotland, but also draw in additional readers by doing a propoer job of Irish football. Yet no outlet seems to really do this.

[CorribsideSteve]

The LOI has potential in the same way that the Markets Field has potential...loads of space for improvement but that won't happen due to lack of interest and money.
And it's on par with Jackman Park before the seats were put in there in the minds of the general public.

[culloty82]

Oddly enough, the UK football monthly When Saturday Comes has semi-regular pieces on the LoI from a Dundalk-based writer -- one a few issues ago was on his own club, and this month the inaugural First Division season is the back page feature.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Dublin is the largest capital in Europe without a CL team. Regardless of GAA there is definitely huge untapped potential. Rugby was mentioned above. Irish rugby is lucky in that it benefits substantially from three different sources of overseas TV income. In the current model of European football LOI clubs can only really rely on domestic TV income which is paltry. FAI is broke and government doesn't see football as an investment priority outside of grassroots. Community engagement was mentioned above as key. I agree, and that includes local government support (e.g., Tallaght Stadium) and the larger corporate community. The banks, agri-food companies etc. don't seem to want to associate with the LOI or the clubs. Maybe the tech/social media firms domiciled here? Build it and they'll come...

[EatYerGreens]

I think Dublin is the largest capital in Europe without a CL team.

Presumably you mean group stages by that ?

In which case - Istanbul ? Rome ? Berlin ? Kiev ? Vienna ? Warsaw ? Athens ? Budapest ? Stockholm ?

[pineapple stu]

I presume he means ever rather than this year.

Those cities have all had CL teams at one stage or another

[EalingGreen]

... you only have to look at how much money, time and energy is invested in British football by Irish people to understand how much better our game could be if it captured even just a decent fraction of that leakage. It's not that Irish people aren't into football - it's just that they aren't currently into Irish football. And addressing that is where the opportunity lies.There's no doubt that if the pull of GB football in ROI could be reversed, that could greatly benefit the LOI.

But with the way things are going, that "pull" is liable to be as much a threat as an opportunity. For with the EPL at least having ever more money and resources, bigger modern stadia and huge crowds, more success on the pitch, and enormous worldwide coverage from TV, streaming, satellite, social media etc, their "product" is only growing.

Meaning that it is drawing ever more "support" from all over the world, and with ROI's historic links with the game across the water, plus proximity and cheapness/ease of travel etc, then there must still be capacity for interest in English (and Scottish?) football to grow even more in ROI.

Take the example of Spurs. As of March 2019, there were 17 official Spurs Supporters Clubs in ROI (plus another dozen or more in NI):
https://www.thelilywhites.co.uk/stories/tottenham-hotspur-supporters-clubs
By July 2020, Spurs had 278 official SSC's worldwide, in every corner of the globe, with numbers growing all the time:
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2020/july/new-supporters-clubs-join-the-spurs-family/

And Spurs are by no means the most popular club in Ireland - see eg L'pool, Man Utd, Arsenal and Celtic etc.

And as for retrieving some of this "pull" back to the LOI (also IL), for me the greatest hurdle is not the standard of play, since a good, competitive LOI game can be more entertaining than a technical, tactical EPL game, where the two teams cancel each other out etc. Nor is it necessarily the level of promotion locally, since clubs can increasingly promote themselves through social media etc.

Rather I believe it to be the generally appalling standard of facilities which people encounter in LOI grounds (same for IL too, btw). Quite simply, averagely affluent people in ROI cannot be happy to shell out even a fraction of their 2022 wealth for a ticket to a 1970's ground, especially when they compare it with the "cathedrals of football" elsewhere in the world.

And it's not even a question of "either/or". For it is quite possible for an Irish fan to have an English team which he goes to see a couple of times a season, alongside an LOI team which he watches the rest of the time.

But I do believe that unless/until Irish clubs improve their stadia to that which you see in other comparable European countries like eg Denmark, then there is little chance of a that happening, never mind dropping their English club to support an LOI club exclusively.

[EalingGreen]

Forgot to mention this interesting marketing initiative from the NI Football League. Last night they livestreamed the Premier Intermediate League (i.e. 3rd tier) match between Ballymacash Rangers and Lisburn Distilley.

For background, Cash are a relatively new club in Lisburn (formed in 1984), who have made huge strides recently - terrific facilities, community engagement, youth and girls teams etc, and whose ambition has seen them shoot up from Amateur league stuff to the PIL - Im sure they want to go higher.

Since promotion last season, this was their first true "derby" match against Distillery. Anthow, the live stream drew 3k viewers and attracted a lot of interest from fans of other IL teams, while around 300(?) turned up on a filthy night at the game itself.

And apparently the NIFL intends to do more of this sort of thing.

Brief highlights here:

https://youtu.be/AjcogBCkc8U

Does the LOI do something similar for their clubs?

[culloty82]

I presume he means ever rather than this year.

Those cities have all had CL teams at one stage or another

In any case, it would be Ankara by quite some margin.

[pineapple stu]

Now that's a good spot in fairness!

(Which reminds me that it's slightly surprising Turkey isn't in the top ten there. Perennial underachievers given the interest in the game)

[TonyD]

Forgot to mention this interesting marketing initiative from the NI Football League. Last night they livestreamed the Premier Intermediate League (i.e. 3rd tier) match between Ballymacash Rangers and Lisburn Distilley.

For background, Cash are a relatively new club in Lisburn (formed in 1984), who have made huge strides recently - terrific facilities, community engagement, youth and girls teams etc, and whose ambition has seen them shoot up from Amateur league stuff to the PIL - Im sure they want to go higher.

Since promotion last season, this was their first true "derby" match against Distillery. Anthow, the live stream drew 3k viewers and attracted a lot of interest from fans of other IL teams, while around 300(?) turned up on a filthy night at the game itself.

And apparently the NIFL intends to do more of this sort of thing.

Brief highlights here:

https://youtu.be/AjcogBCkc8U

Does the LOI do something similar for their clubs?

There has been live streaming here since the pandemic. Not free though, did they charge for the game up North ? I think the streaming has been great. Allows me to see every game Pats play. Crazy decision though to not have a season ticket this year, but to charge per game. Can’t see how they could make more money that way.

I wonder if the increased attendances post pandemic will result in more media interest. Hopefully it will, which could then in turn lead to better crowds again.

[EalingGreen]

There has been live streaming here since the pandemic. Not free though, did they charge for the game up North ?.No, the stream was free, set up by the League itself, with likely more such games to come..

And remember, it was an Intermediate game (3rd tier) i.e. not Premiership/Championship.

While the BBC generally livestreams a Premiership game (for free) every Friday evening, as well as having a 30 minutes Premiership highlights/magazine programme every week.

While Sky have selected a couple of IL Prem games in the next few months (subscription), to fill English domestic league gaps while the World Cup finals are on.

Not sure all this makes any impact outwith the NI football community, but within it it certainly generates extra interest.

[ToberonaTornado]

BBC Scotland also and BBC Wales also stream games from free and sometimes full broadcast
Watched Pollock v Annan the other night and it was quite the game.
RTE in contrast ........

[ToberonaTornado]

Sorry,didn't want to derail the thread.
With So much Sh** written about OP and you can see why we're grasping at straws now(me anyway) with the new Louth GAA stadium been built in Dundalk.

[ToberonaTornado]

BBC Scotland also and BBC Wales also stream games from free and sometimes full broadcast
Watched Pollock v Annan the other night and it was quite the game.
RTE in contrast ........
i did watch this game though. BRILLIANT game

[El-Pietro]

What we need is a proper broadcast contact. We're never going to get that from RTÉ as things stand so we should be looking to sell our rights internationally, share the funds between all teams in both divisions and find a way to ensure those rights are directed to facilties, whether those be stadium improvements, training facilties or youth development. No one in Ireland likes anything in Ireland until the rest of the world pays attention. Get RTÉ and Virgin to come chasing for the rights after we've fixed things on our own with external funding.
We should also be looking at ways to encourage teams/councils etc to improve their facilities in order get a better share of the funds, though I don't know how you do that without directing money towards the teams who already have decent stadia.

[sidewayspasser]

When you talk about selling rights internationally, where do you think you would find international broadcasters who are willing to pay?

[nigel-harps1954]

When you talk about selling rights internationally, where do you think you would find international broadcasters who are willing to pay?

In other countries.

[sidewayspasser]

Oh really? :D

[EalingGreen]

What we need is a proper broadcast contact. We're never going to get that from RTÉ as things stand etcThen perhaps RTE need to be pushed a lot harder, since it is unlikely that other, non-ROI broadcasters will be interested.

And as 'Toblerona' has averred, in the UK, BBC Scotland, BBC Wales and BBC NI are doing a reasonable job in their role as public service broadcasters.

P.S. In NI, it's not just Football, but also GAA and Rugby who get decent coverage from what I can see.

[Kiki Balboa]

Instead of waiting for a saviour in RTE or Sky, who have shown very little intrest in the past, the LOI/FAI should continue to develop LOI.TV - which should increase revenue and support. You have to think that modern media is moving away from the purley TV based onto the online- LOI should be the first Irish sport to fully embrace it.

Little things to make LOI.TV a better experience:

- One free game a week
- yearly subscription to all the games available
- highlights available in a reasonable time frame after the game (and on Twitter) and cut any analysis of games from a highlights show, leave that to podcasts, which do an excellent job
- dont be afraid to have one or two games staggered across the weekend

[outspoken]

Instead of waiting for a saviour in RTE or Sky, who have shown very little intrest in the past, the LOI/FAI should continue to develop LOI.TV - which should increase revenue and support. You have to think that modern media is moving away from the purley TV based onto the online- LOI should be the first Irish sport to fully embrace it.

Little things to make LOI.TV a better experience:

- One free game a week
- yearly subscription to all the games available
- highlights available in a reasonable time frame after the game (and on Twitter) and cut any analysis of games from a highlights show, leave that to podcasts, which do an excellent job
- dont be afraid to have one or two games staggered across the weekend
Totally totally totally agree with this.

[Straightstory]

Totally totally totally agree with this.

Me too - I like it!

[ger121]

Instead of waiting for a saviour in RTE or Sky, who have shown very little intrest in the past, the LOI/FAI should continue to develop LOI.TV - which should increase revenue and support. You have to think that modern media is moving away from the purley TV based onto the online- LOI should be the first Irish sport to fully embrace it.

Little things to make LOI.TV a better experience:

- One free game a week
- yearly subscription to all the games available
- highlights available in a reasonable time frame after the game (and on Twitter) and cut any analysis of games from a highlights show, leave that to podcasts, which do an excellent job
- dont be afraid to have one or two games staggered across the weekend

This is the future here. Build and grow the product offering annually, into something that is not reliant on traditional tv outlets and instead focuses purely on the continuing shift to online.

[TheBoss]

Instead of waiting for a saviour in RTE or Sky, who have shown very little intrest in the past, the LOI/FAI should continue to develop LOI.TV - which should increase revenue and support. You have to think that modern media is moving away from the purley TV based onto the online- LOI should be the first Irish sport to fully embrace it.

Little things to make LOI.TV a better experience:

- One free game a week
- yearly subscription to all the games available
- highlights available in a reasonable time frame after the game (and on Twitter) and cut any analysis of games from a highlights show, leave that to podcasts, which do an excellent job
- dont be afraid to have one or two games staggered across the weekend

I think they should also consider an online shop with shirts, programmes, memorabilia, etc. Make it easier for fans to purchase stuff while watching a game. Might make people buy stuff while on the site and can help generate some extra revenue for clubs.

[outspoken]

Instead of waiting for a saviour in RTE or Sky, who have shown very little intrest in the past, the LOI/FAI should continue to develop LOI.TV - which should increase revenue and support. You have to think that modern media is moving away from the purley TV based onto the online- LOI should be the first Irish sport to fully embrace it.

Little things to make LOI.TV a better experience:

- One free game a week
- yearly subscription to all the games available
- highlights available in a reasonable time frame after the game (and on Twitter) and cut any analysis of games from a highlights show, leave that to podcasts, which do an excellent job
- dont be afraid to have one or two games staggered across the weekend

Going back to this, how difficult would a redzone/soccer saturday show be to put together on LOI TV? Games are already all being streamed, just need a decent looking studio and some decent pannelists. Wouldn't hold out much hope given the production of the highlights show and some of the pundits they use who clearly dont watch 90% of the teams in the league.

[nr637]

Great idea that about developing LOI TV.The actual filming by the camera leaves a lot to be desired, which seems to be a common complaint, if this could be improved through some better media technology, I think you would be on to a winner and avoid the main stream services.

[legendz]

The LOI TV highlights show should be available on Youtube. It'll pop up on peoples feed then every week when there is a new show. They can split it out into Premier Division, First Division and Women's League.

[outspoken]

The LOI TV highlights show should be available on Youtube. It'll pop up on peoples feed then every week when there is a new show. They can split it out into Premier Division, First Division and Women's League.

It's a dreadful production full stop but yep, that would make total sense.

[nr637]

With the final round of Premier fixtures down for this coming Sunday 6th November, all kick-offs @ 7pm, any chance the FAI could market some promotion to attract fans to these games, maybe offer reduced entrance for adults @ €5 with kids free!

It will be interesting to see the attendances at these games! :confused:

[LOI101]

With the final round of Premier fixtures down for this coming Sunday 6th November, all kick-offs @ 7pm, any chance the FAI could market some promotion to attract fans to these games, maybe offer reduced entrance for adults @ €5 with kids free!

It will be interesting to see the attendances at these games! :confused:

The FAI don't set ticket prices. Other than that I think its a bizarre suggestion. Its not like grounds will be empty. Derry and Bohs both at home. Crowds limited by capacity constraints. Why would they cut their gate receipts?

The FAI should be promoting one game this weekend and that's the cup final in Tallaght.

[Glen Of Aherlow]

The FAI don't set ticket prices. Other than that I think its a bizarre suggestion. Its not like grounds will be empty. Derry and Bohs both at home. Crowds limited by capacity constraints. Why would they cut their gate receipts?

The FAI should be promoting one game this weekend and that's the cup final in Tallaght.

The Pats match is a sell out already , for a match with nothing to play for

[sbgawa]

Ucd also will sell out for their match against Rovers.

[EatYerGreens]

With the final round of Premier fixtures down for this coming Sunday 6th November, all kick-offs @ 7pm, any chance the FAI could market some promotion to attract fans to these games, maybe offer reduced entrance for adults @ €5 with kids free!

It will be interesting to see the attendances at these games! :confused:

The final games of the season is surely the worst time to run a ticket promotion across the league :

1) A lot of games have nothing at stake, so won't be great attractions.
2) Those games which do have something at steak will draw a good crowd at full price anyway.
3) A price-pomotion for entry would only make sense if it led to repeat business. No point getting people in for the last game of the season on a promo, when if they like it they'll have to wait 4mths to access another match.
4) Football is about developing a habit of attendance. You do that during the seaosn - not at the very end.