Games weekend 5th to 7th August

[LOI101]

is this a serious question

Yes.

Let's imagine Pats encountered similar difficulties on their way to Sofia and only arrived on the morning of the game. The game would still have to be played?

[DCSIL]

Pats didn’t book the plane that’s been impounded in Longford did they?

On last night, right sickener the Dundalk equalizer, Maher showing what a good keeper he is up till then. Missed the stuff in the away end as was in the seats and got through out the home end (could well have had a pint in the Lilywhite lounge would have been nice!)

[Kiki Balboa]

Pats didn’t book the plane that’s been impounded in Longford did they?

On last night, right sickener the Dundalk equalizer, Maher showing what a good keeper he is up till then. Missed the stuff in the away end as was in the seats and got through out the home end (could well have had a pint in the Lilywhite lounge would have been nice!)

Story I read from comments online.... Derry fan ran onto the pitch after the final whistle, and was escorted off the pitch heavy-handley by the AGS. Other Derry fans reacted, and some pushing between the Guards and Derry fans.

Do Derry fans have a particular animosity towards Dundalk? Because, I don't think Dundalk would see it as a rivalry game (other than the situation in the table).

[TonyD]

I don't see what that has to do with my point. If you're in the airport in the early hours of the morning, you'll see plenty of people travelling for work, often going straight to work when they get off the flight at their destination. So why can't a footballer get off a flight, whether its a charter or commercial flight, in the early hours and play a game at 5pm on the same day?

Because a game of football is not the same as a day at the office.

[TonyD]

when was the last time a team couldnt fulfill a fixture because of screwed up travel arrangements.???
Either Pats didnt bother booking a flight home or they booked with unprofessional people. You cant delegate responsibility. If their arrangements screwed up and it effects Shels than Shels should get the points

I’m sure you’d be saying the same if it was Rovers involved. I note Rovers are not playing this weekend incidentally.

[Kiki Balboa]

Is there any precedent for this? Has something similar happened in this league or another (game postponed because of a lack of travel arrangments)?

I could see both views... If I remember, Waterford had to play with their u-19s when the majority of their squad were out with Covid-19... Obv not the same, but you could use it as precedent.

[El-Pietro]

Comfortable win for City at home to Athlone last night. I think we might have scored with nearly every chance we had. We have a huge week coming up next week. Waterford v Galway is on Friday while we're at home to Treaty, and then we're at home to Waterford Monday in a rearranged fixture before we play Cobh away the following Friday. A chance to open up some ground over Galway or a chance for Galway to eat up some of the gap if we're not at it in all 3 games.

[DCSIL]

Do Derry fans have a particular animosity towards Dundalk? Because, I don't think Dundalk would see it as a rivalry game (other than the situation in the table).

According to some Derry fans some Dundalk have played up when they’ve come to the Brandy, you’ll have to ask Brendy or DCWA about that as most away fans (apart from Rovers a few years back) are alright. There’s a rivalry in that we’re challenging you and Rovers for trophies.

There was a bus load of lads who’d been drinking all day they might have been involved.

[sbgawa]

I’m sure you’d be saying the same if it was Rovers involved. I note Rovers are not playing this weekend incidentally.

Rovers are not playing this weekend because we went through the correct process and rescheduled the game. Pats could have done the same and chose not to. I would feel the same if it was rovers btw but I will be disaapointed with the club if they couldn't organise their travel arrangements like EVERY other club in Europe this week except Pats.

[legendz]

Shelbourne have had just two home games in 3 months! It's great to see LoI clubs progressing in Europe but it's a double whammy on their league opponents that they are taking in the European money and disrupting their league rivals season. If Pat's are legitimately stranded in Bulgaria, it is an exceptional circumstance. In all other circumstances, European teams should be playing 3 days later in the domestic league, allowing at least 4 days prior to their next European game. If teams are benefitting from a European hangover, so be it. Success brings more games.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0805/1314240-shels-st-pats-postponed-as-saints-stranded-in-bulgaria/

[outspoken]

According to some Derry fans some Dundalk have played up when they’ve come to the Brandy, you’ll have to ask Brendy or DCWA about that as most away fans (apart from Rovers a few years back) are alright. There’s a rivalry in that we’re challenging you and Rovers for trophies.

There was a bus load of lads who’d been drinking all day they might have been involved.

Sure there was a massive punch up on the pitch after the 2019 LC final. Was at it, disgraceful scenes with both sets of fans at fault (plus poor security but nobody asked the lads on the pitch to act like savages). Since then it's been spicy enough and now the whole "Derry stealing players" nonsense has added fuel to the fire.

[Nesta99]

I dont recall that 2019 incident but then maybe my attention was on celebrating winning a trophy and not seeking out someone to fight with. Whats the chances of multiple incidents same idiots!? I have to say in all the years of having Derry fans in Oriel and travelling up to the Brandywell there has never been anything but a good friendship between the respective supporters. Isolated incidents like the windows broken on the bus at the Brandywell but that was acknowledged as people not at the game or Derry fans. There was minimal security for Derry's visit on Friday - you know there's concern when there are no tickets on the night for example.

It sounds to me that one Derry fan took exception to the late equaliser, maybe some taunting, in a 'haze' entered the pitch area, got manhandled by Gardaí (there is usually moaning about them doing nothing and slow in taking action and now that they have responded to misbehavioor it's heavy handed?) and his buddies had a hissy fit so a number of the public order unit were deployed to calm things down. Havent heard anything about injuries or arrests so might just have done the job.

[Dermobohs]

Poor fare in the show grounds so far, bohs with the one scramble near goal.
The big lad pinaker(?) at the back for Sligo looks good, best for bohs are mcdaid Burke and O’Sullivan, but lacking in attempts at goal so far

[joey B]

Bohs take the lead then concede 2 in 3 minutes…..

[outspoken]

bohs in a nutshell

[Dermobohs]

Yep , same all ****ing season. New squad same problem.

[ger121]

Yep , same all ****ing season. New squad same problem.

If any team could lose to Sligo outside of Europe, you could be damn sure it would be us. Mid table mediocrity is becoming our thing.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Good second half and a badly needed win for us. Big game in Inchicore on Sunday. Hopefully Pats are worrying about a play off.

[patsdad]

Good second half and a badly needed win for us. Big game in Inchicore on Sunday. Hopefully Pats are worrying about a play off.
If we’re worrying about a playoff we won’t be playing you next Sunday. FAI already said it will be off if either side progresses.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

If we’re worrying about a playoff we won’t be playing you next Sunday. FAI already said it will be off if either side progresses.

Did they? Hadnt heard that. We won’t be progressing.

[oriel]

Really ? You don’t see an issue with arriving on Sunday morning and playing at 5pm ? Seriously ?

This is completely outside Pats control. Everyone knows the difficulties with air travel at the moment. If Pats are punished for this it will be a disgrace. So much for supporting our teams in Europe.

Come on on now Tony, do you not think Pats maybe engineered this a little and knew full well the times of the charter?

Dundalk arrived home from Russia on a Sat am in Nov 2016 and played and almost won a cup final next day, yes they complained about the game but still fulfilled the fixture.

[oriel]

Loving that Dundalk equaliser.
Boom

So did I, a point closer to achieving the season long aim of re-qualifying for Europe, nothing taken for granted but its looking good we will might get either 2nd or 3rd now.

[DCWA]

Story I read from comments online.... Derry fan ran onto the pitch after the final whistle, and was escorted off the pitch heavy-handley by the AGS. Other Derry fans reacted, and some pushing between the Guards and Derry fans.

Do Derry fans have a particular animosity towards Dundalk? Because, I don't think Dundalk would see it as a rivalry game (other than the situation in the table).

No anomosity toward Dundalk apart from possibly between the younger fans of each team (not sure if this the case but both, much like plenty other clubs like act up to each other).

What I would say is that the actions of the Gardai and certain Dundalk cllub officials who Inwill refrain from naming on this site were unbelievable. Genuinely had to seen to be believed.

Those free state *******s in the guards been hung in the right time.

[Nesta99]

No anomosity toward Dundalk apart from possibly between the younger fans of each team (not sure if this the case but both, much like plenty other clubs like act up to each other).

What I would say is that the actions of the Gardai and certain Dundalk cllub officials who Inwill refrain from naming on this site were unbelievable. Genuinely had to seen to be believed.

Those free state *******s in the guards been hung in the right time.

Not sure what you are getting at?

[DCWA]

I am sure it can be figured out handy enough. A clearly intelligent poster like yourself I have no doubt has gathered already, give or take.

[outspoken]

Usually people are giving out the Gardai are too soft when there's trouble at LOI games, if you can't go to a game and behave yourself you deserve a good crack of a bat. Might not some sense into the clowns who think they are extras on green Street.

[brendy_éire]

Because a game of football is not the same as a day at the office.

What's the difference getting off a flight and getting off a bus?

It's not ideal circumstances, but teams travel six hours on a bus to the Brandywell, get off it, play a match, then go straight back down the road.
Do feel for Shels in this instance.

Such a poor second half performance from Derry on Friday night. We so thoroughly expected the Dundalk goal, it was barely disappointing to concede, but rather we were glad they didn't do it then minutes early. Dundalk would have the game in that instance.

Not exactly sure what went on after, but heard some lad had his glasses broken by a guard and a four year old got pepper-sprayed.
FWIW, whatever about the guards, but if fans weren't moving towards the trouble, there'd have been no issue.

[pineapple stu]

What teams travel 6 hours by bus to Derry? Would Cork not stay overnight for example? Dublin teams don't get straight off the bus and play a game - they'd arrive up 3-4 hours before the game, have lunch in a hotel, and prepare professionally.

If you're looking at two flights (which you would, if you're going no-charter from Sofia to Dublin) to arrive in on the morning of the game, then you've got an early start in a different time zone (Sofia is two hours ahead) and none of that is conducive to arriving in the airport, getting a bus to Tolka, and playing a match at 5pm.

Have sympathy for Shels here and if Pat's have screwed up with their Euro arrangements then I think a walkover would probably be the correct decision. But I don't think the ideas of "Ah sure they can land in the airport on Sunday morning and play a game" or "A game of football is the same as an office job" really stack up.

[brendy_éire]

What teams travel 6 hours by bus to Derry? Would Cork not stay overnight for example? Dublin teams don't get straight off the bus and play a game - they'd arrive up 3-4 hours before the game, have lunch in a hotel, and prepare professionally.

If you're looking at two flights (which you would, if you're going no-charter from Sofia to Dublin) to arrive in on the morning of the game, then you've got an early start in a different time zone (Sofia is two hours ahead) and none of that is conducive to arriving in the airport, getting a bus to Tolka, and playing a match at 5pm.

Cork/Cobh, I don't think they always stay over. They'll obviously have a bit of food beforehand, and Pat's would have had the spare time too.
I'm saying that there should be no difference based on the mode of transport. It's just a flight.

Did Pat's get their charter in the end, or go commercial?
There's direct option with Ryanair that gets in just after midnight.
Regardless, it's far, far from ideal, but I don't see how it's not possible to do it.

Essentially, Pat's didn't play because they had a late night on Saturday.

They could still get a sleep, then be able to meet up a few hours before the game.
Alternatively, they could have asked for delayed KO.

I absolutely get why they didn't play the match, but it's still better to play than possibly lose the three points.

[TonyD]

Come on on now Tony, do you not think Pats maybe engineered this a little and knew full well the times of the charter?

Dundalk arrived home from Russia on a Sat am in Nov 2016 and played and almost won a cup final next day, yes they complained about the game but still fulfilled the fixture.

Well there is no evidence that is the case. I don’t know the full ins and outs, but what is clear is that the FAI were kept fully informed. If they feel that Pats were playing games then no doubt they will give the points to Shels.

I’m sure that the people wanting us to play on Sunday, or even Monday, would take a different view if their club was involved. If the shoe was on the other foot I would hope I wouldn’t be as petty as to want to see Shels lose the points.

[Louth4sam]

I’m sure that the people wanting us to play on Sunday, or even Monday, would take a different view if their club was involved. If the shoe was on the other foot I would hope I wouldn’t be as petty as to want to see Shels lose the points.

That's the thing though other clubs HAVE been in this situation and were forced to play games. FAI need be to consistent with their rules here. Dundalk play Rovers on Friday week, which is before a playoff game. We should be insisting that they play that game as we were forced to in 2020 before our playoff game.

[pineapple stu]

What clubs have been in the situation where they played a domestic game on the same day they landed back from a Euro tie?

Dundalk arriving in from Russia the morning before a Cup final is literally the exact same as every LoI side playing an away game in Europe and isn't the same thing as arriving in on the morning of a game

[brendy_éire]

I’m sure that the people wanting us to play on Sunday, or even Monday, would take a different view if their club was involved. If the shoe was on the other foot I would hope I wouldn’t be as petty as to want to see Shels lose the points.

Nope. If it was Derry, unless we'd be explicitly told by the FAI that the fixture would be postponed, I'd want us playing.

It's not that I want to see Shels get handed the points, it just seems like that may be the outcome here.

[Louth4sam]

What clubs have been in the situation where they played a domestic game on the same day they landed back from a Euro tie?

I meant that other clubs have been forced to play games after returning from European matches with requests for cancelation rejected. Pats shouldn't be rewarded here for poor logistics.

[Louth4sam]

Dundalk arriving in from Russia the morning before a Cup final is literally the exact same as every LoI side playing an away game in Europe and isn't the same thing as arriving in on the morning of a game

It's only the same thing if Pats are expected to fulfil the fixture. I'd imagine the rules are pretty rigid on this as they should be. There is a massive advantage here for Pats not playing this fixture regardless if they were home on Friday morning or Sunday morning.

[pineapple stu]

I meant that other clubs have been forced to play games after returning from European matches with requests for cancelation rejected. Pats shouldn't be rewarded here for poor logistics.
Well ok. I do agree that if the issue is that Pat's didn't book the trip properly, then that's tough. If they had an agreement with a charter who then bailed, I'd be more understanding. I can't see there's a third option to explain what's happened here. I presume either way they've been in touch with the FAI since the problem emerged, which is why I think Sat morning for this to break seems quite late (I know the FAI/Shels may have known before it was publicly announced)

[Louth4sam]

Well ok. I do agree that if the issue is that Pat's didn't book the trip properly, then that's tough. If they had an agreement with a charter who then bailed, I'd be more understanding. I can't see there's a third option to explain what's happened here. I presume either way they've been in touch with the FAI since the problem emerged, which is why I think Sat morning for this to break seems quite late (I know the FAI/Shels may have known before it was publicly announced)

Even if a charter let them down there was plenty of options to get some/all of the squad back. Although travelling to matches by charter is required under UEFA rules there is no rule that says you can't travel back commercial. I would be very skeptical on the effort put in to getting back for this game if they think they can get away with it. This doesn't just impact on Shels but all teams trying to qualify for Europe, Pats have now put themselves in a position where they don't need to rest players and will likely have a full strength team available if the game was replayed at a later date.

[2 Year Contract]

I would be very skeptical on the effort put in to getting back for this game if they think they can get away with it. This doesn't just impact on Shels but all teams trying to qualify for Europe, Pats have now put themselves in a position where they don't need to rest players and will likely have a full strength team available if the game was replayed at a later date.

Take the tinfoil hat off. No LOI club has the money to deliberately extend their stay in a hotel just to try and get a game called off.

If the game is rescheduled in during the rest of the season in a midweek slot for example, it’s the exact same scenario for pats who will likely have to shuffle the starting 11 anyways with a game the previous and following Friday a strong likelihood.

[Louth4sam]

Take the tinfoil hat off. No LOI club has the money to deliberately extend their stay in a hotel just to try and get a game called off.

If the game is rescheduled in during the rest of the season in a midweek slot for example, it’s the exact same scenario for pats who will likely have to shuffle the starting 11 anyways with a game the previous and following Friday a strong likelihood.

It's not Paris or New York we're talking about. Accommodation could be sourced for a couple of grand easily in Bulgaria. I suspect that Pats are trying to pull a fast one here and it'll be interesting to see if the FAI let them away with it.

And you're fooling nobody with the exact same scenario. Playing the likes Finn Harps or UCD with Shels sandwiched in-between can't be compared to playing a very good European side.

[2 Year Contract]

It's not Paris or New York we're talking about. Accommodation could be sourced for a couple of grand easily in Bulgaria. I suspect that Pats are trying to pull a fast one here and it'll be interesting to see if the FAI let them away with it.

And you're fooling nobody with the exact same scenario. Playing the likes Finn Harps or UCD with Shels sandwiched in-between can't be compared to playing a very good European side.

Predictably you’ve picked the bottom 2 teams in the league but anyways, I’m obviously not comparing the standard of Finn Harps and UCD to CSKA Sofia. You said if the game was rescheduled then pats wouldn't have to rest players which is not the case. If they were to play 3 games in 7 days it’s highly unlikely they’d play the same 11 in each of those games.

[Nesta99]

Whats the financial benefit to Pas if they progress?

[D24Saint]

Whats the financial benefit to Pas if they progress?

I've seen it as €750,000 if eliminated in the playoff round. At the moment we get €550,000 for the third round.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

300k per round in total. 100k for travel from UEFA per round you play in.

[Nesta99]

300k per round in total. 100k for travel from UEFA per round you play in.

Ok so throw in a a rough average of €15 per ticket x 6k x 2 so almost €200k (a free hit at Basel or Brondby and if the home tie isnt a complete dead rubber). Sponsorship opportunities, intangible stuff like prestige, improved ranking in future years, personal ambition for players, nice addition to coaching CVs etc. So a result in one game could earn about €500k(?) gross for St Pats. It's not quite the stuff of 'tinfoil hat' to consider the possibility that a club may do what ever it can to maximise its chances of progression including being willing to spend additional money on hotels, resting players, considering what could be gained. If Dundalk were in a similar position as St Pats currently I wouldnt dismiss the possibility that it could suit the club to not be able travel home for a domestic game in hope that it could conveniently be explained away as part of a general trend in air travel.

Its not a slur on St Pats to be curious about what has happened, it'd be pragmatic to try imo, especially if they feel they can get away with it. They may genuinely have been let down, or their admin made a balls of the travel arrangements and have had to scramble to limit any problems caused. For all Pats fans that have questioned how supporters of other clubs would react if their club was in this umm... pickle, would they not also be asking question if it was another club involved.

Its not a benign bit of rejigging fixtures - there are clubs, my own included, that are in a very tight battle for a top 3 (or 4th) place so anyone trying to get a questionable advantage will be scrutinised. Shels will probably just agree to a refixture but getting the walkover puts them withing striking distance of 4th place and the possibility of a European slot and ye couldnt argue with them for looking at their options.

[total hoofball]

Shels don't sound like they are just happy to accept a re-fixture and they definitely wouldn't just accept a walkover and losing out on a five figure sum of matchday revenue

Shels may look to the precedent back in 2016 when Athlone's players went on strike resulting in non-fulfilment of their away fixture to Waterford and Waterford were awarded both a 3-0 walkover and Athlone's final home match against Waterford was moved to the RSC to compensate for Waterford for losing the cancelled match at home. I can't see the FAI having to balls to do anything like that on larger scale in the Premier Division unless there is absolutely clear evidence of Pats trying to pull a fast one

[TonyD]

That's the thing though other clubs HAVE been in this situation and were forced to play games. FAI need be to consistent with their rules here. Dundalk play Rovers on Friday week, which is before a playoff game. We should be insisting that they play that game as we were forced to in 2020 before our playoff game.

Not in these circumstances to be fair. Air travel is chaotic at the moment, which is why I’d suggest we deserve the benefit of the doubt. In previous years it wouldn’t have been an issue.

[Nesta99]

Not in these circumstances to be fair. Air travel is chaotic at the moment, which is why I’d suggest we deserve the benefit of the doubt. In previous years it wouldn’t have been an issue.

I dont think anyone is shouting for St Pats to be sanctioned if theres genuine mitigation and it wouldnt be too hard to provide the FAI with paperwork that shows that things were legitimately beyond St Pats control eg a last minute charter being pulled so getting the benefit of the doubt. But maybe the rules dont allow for the benefit of the doubt and hands are tied which wouldnt be fair and amendments would be made for a new season, Shels are not agreeable to a simple refixture or had already refused such a request, or St Pats are struggling to show that things were beyond their control. If they cant show this I doubt there is a benefit of the doubt rule that the FAI can apply 'deserved' or not! The FAI are not known for swift decisions on this sort of stuff but the longer it goes on without being put to bed the more it should be a worry for St Pats fans ye have to think.

[patsdad]

St Pats are saying that from the start of the week they were in constant contact with both the FAI and UEFA about the difficulties they were having so I don’t think there’ll be an issue about the trail of paperwork.

[Nesta99]

That paper work will help of course but its only a piece of the puzzle, how do you prove that efforts were made to get people on commercial flights in time. It would have made sense for the FAI statement to reflect this, how hard would it have been to say that the FAI the were in regular contact with St Pats. Shels should have been told the fixture was at risk as soon as St Pats spoke to the FAI so could have taken the heat out of their annoyance. It still goes to a disciplinary hearing where a case has to be made and then accepted and for Shels not to appeal, maybe Pats to appeal the appeal - it'd be like some of the good old days.

[ToberonaTornado]

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