St James Gate

[joey B]

Announced on Twitter they were closing the doors ,sad to see one of the founding members of the League of Ireland disappear completely…..


https://mobile.twitter.com/StJamesGate1902/status/1546833834712367106

[D24Saint]

What would be the cause , overheads, lacks of players and coaches ?

[EatYerGreens]

Shocked by that news. Very sad. Does anyone know what the story is here ? Is it financial, or are they struggling to get players and field a team ? If the latter, you'd think a solution could be found.

[pineapple stu]

Strange that only last week they had pre-season back and were looking for new players (as per their twitter), and now they're gone.

[culloty82]

One wouldn't imagine the expense of running a LSL team could be that crippling? As you say, the inaugural double winners, so very sad to see a piece of LoI history go to the wall.

[sbgawa]

Hard to believe they just folded after 120 years without at least a shout out to the football community for a dig out of some description.
Must be hard tp keep going though when the club isnt even in the top level of amateur football

[joey B]

What would be the cause , overheads, lacks of players and coaches ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1546835526627590151

Couple of tweets there might paint the picture,seems more and more clubs in the inner city are closing…..

[D24Saint]

https://mobile.twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1546835526627590151

Couple of tweets there might paint the picture,seems more and more clubs in the inner city are closing…..

That probably explains the reason behind a couple of club mergers in recent years.

[Nesta99]

Its a real grind to keep the show on the road as we know, arguably as hard or even harder for junior clubs than senior if sensible, with the greater potential to generate income at senior level and that larger communities can be rallied when things are close to terminal. Unless there is at minimum 1 super dedicated club person that drive everyone else on ad practically gives over their lives to keeping a club going then there will be a slow steady wind down, where other are reluctant to step up in case they are left carrying things. Increasing costs, insurance for a number of years a big concern, a chronic shortage of playing facilities has put the squeeze on, there's less benefactor type sponsors willing to help from late 2000s and more recent lockdowns and businesses struggling. The necessary burden of health and safety, safeguarding, registrations etc just saps up willing volunteers. The age old Irish ability for fallings out between clubs members is never far away and has done plenty of damage over the years too, ego before club. The issues with aggression against refs at certain levels and a growing shortage will impact all levels increasingly in general. A trend has been noted in Dublin but in Dundalk there are a few clubs gone that if ye went back 10 or 20 years you would never picked them, Bank Rovers (FAI Cup qualifiers a few times) Rangers, Seatown off the top of the head albeit the latter 2 club schoolboy clubs with senior teams also. Its not all for the FAI to come up with the fixes but they need to work on issues such as insurance costs or grassroots powerbase will shrink.

[total hoofball]

It's a perfect storm for Dublin intermediate/junior clubs post-worst of the pandemic with increasing costs, less volunteers with time/money on their hands and declining participation levels latter maybe due to the demographics of low birth rates mid 90s catching up in aspects like this. If this expected recession materialises St. James' Gate likely won't be the last to drop off or merge

I'm not really in touch with what's going on GAA or Rugby wonder if they are experiencing similar challenges at club level?

[WeAreRovers]

By way of contrast the DDSL club where I coach is experiencing unprecedented growth, so much so that we have a waiting list in the 100s for both boys and girls. All in the shadow of the biggest GAA club in the country. So it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

[Jd2793]

is it true they'd no schoolboys section / link to a schoolboy club? if so not hard to see why they'd eventually go to the wall. very hard to keep going when that is the case imo

[joey B]

By way of contrast the DDSL club where I coach is experiencing unprecedented growth, so much so that we have a waiting list in the 100s for both boys and girls. All in the shadow of the biggest GAA club in the country. So it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

This might be a stupid question but do players go and look for other clubs or do they just sit on the waiting list?

[EatYerGreens]

It's a shame that Guinness didn't see merit in the club continuing. I appreciate it's part of a hard-nosed corporation these days, but there's a brand heritge angle to the club and the drink.

Guiness should've sponsored the in what would be proverbially small beer financially. Then change their home or away colours to black shirts with a cream-coloured top/shoulders and the Guiness brand as sponsor, and sell tonnes of them around the world. London Irish Rugby Club famously had a few such shirts years ago and shifted loads of them. You could see an agle where Guiness could actually make some revenue out of the club this way to under-write or negate the cost of sponsoring it.

[WeAreRovers]

This might be a stupid question but do players go and look for other clubs or do they just sit on the waiting list?

Bit of both, kids looking to play A or even A1 and B will be courted by a few clubs (who will make room for good players) while kids playing C, D, E etc usually just sit on the list until there's room. Means you end up losing some kids to GAA particularly as they are much better at the sport for all concept, especially at the younger ages.

Also the girls game has exploded so no idea how that demand will be met but guessing that most clubs are experiencing the same growth with the same challenges.

[joey B]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0720/1311232-st-james-gate-survive-but-issues-remain-in-amateur-game/

St James Gate will continue playing after all,good news for them…..

[EatYerGreens]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0720/1311232-st-james-gate-survive-but-issues-remain-in-amateur-game/

St James Gate will continue playing after all,good news for them…..

#TheGreatestNonLeagueInTheWorld

[colonelwest]

It's a shame that Guinness didn't see merit in the club continuing. I appreciate it's part of a hard-nosed corporation these days, but there's a brand heritge angle to the club and the drink.

Guiness should've sponsored the in what would be proverbially small beer financially. Then change their home or away colours to black shirts with a cream-coloured top/shoulders and the Guiness brand as sponsor, and sell tonnes of them around the world. London Irish Rugby Club famously had a few such shirts years ago and shifted loads of them. You could see an agle where Guiness could actually make some revenue out of the club this way to under-write or negate the cost of sponsoring it.


Bit of both, kids looking to play A or even A1 and B will be courted by a few clubs (who will make room for good players) while kids playing C, D, E etc usually just sit on the list until there's room. Means you end up losing some kids to GAA particularly as they are much better at the sport for all concept, especially at the younger ages.

Also the girls game has exploded so no idea how that demand will be met but guessing that most clubs are experiencing the same growth with the same challenges.

Iveagh Grounds were sold to Trinity weren't they? Wonder how that left SJG fixed lease wise for the use of the facilities/ pitch etc. By all accounts they weren't the best run over recent years. Hopefully they can make a proper go of it, if they have the facilities long term and can get the 1st's going, add 2nd's and then maybe look at getting boys/ girls youths going they can build back up.

[EatYerGreens]

Iveagh Grounds were sold to Trinity weren't they? Wonder how that left SJG fixed lease wise for the use of the facilities/ pitch etc. By all accounts they weren't the best run over recent years. Hopefully they can make a proper go of it, if they have the facilities long term and can get the 1st's going, add 2nd's and then maybe look at getting boys/ girls youths going they can build back up.

Sold 5yrs ago for €2m. Gate have a long lease as part of that, but apparently not at the subsdised rate they were paying the Guinness Athletic Union.

It's a big 17 acre site overall, so could've been an option for Pats ?

[the 12 th man]

A few reasons seem to be combining to cause this but I think another big killer is they don't get any money from Diagio any more.

[D24Saint]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0720/1311232-st-james-gate-survive-but-issues-remain-in-amateur-game/

St James Gate will continue playing after all,good news for them…..

Huzzah !!

[Martinho II]

Where in Dublin is the Iveagh Grounds as I wasnt going to away matches back when they were in the LOI?. Great to see them not folding. Wasnt aware of their history as such.

[D24Saint]

Where in Dublin is the Iveagh Grounds as I wasnt going to away matches back when they were in the LOI?. Great to see them not folding. Wasnt aware of their history as such.

Not too far from town, go passed dolphins barn and it’s a few minutes up the crumlin road.

[Martinho II]

Not too far from town, go passed dolphins barn and it’s a few minutes up the crumlin road.
Wouldnt know that area D24 as such. So what has happened in Iveagh Grounds in last few years?

[D24Saint]

Wouldnt know that area D24 as such. So what has happened in Iveagh Grounds in last few years?

It was sold to Trinity college by Diageo a while back apparently. The last big match held there was Crumlin United V Dundalk in the cup a few years back.

[sbgawa]

With all the money Guinness spend on Corporate responsibility stuff its a puzzle that they cut ties with a club with the connection they had with them.
Delighted to see them staying alive but with Bluebell and Crumlin operating with budgets at first division levels its hard to see them carving out a niche.

[D24Saint]

With all the money Guinness spend on Corporate responsibility stuff its a puzzle that they cut ties with a club with the connection they had with them.
Delighted to see them staying alive but with Bluebell and Crumlin operating with budgets at first division levels its hard to see them carving out a niche.

Afaik Bluebell aren’t anymore. Before Covid they had a set up as good as many FD teams. The bar with pitch views even served food with a menu, shock horror.

[the 12 th man]

Wouldnt know that area D24 as such. So what has happened in Iveagh Grounds in last few years?


It's D12 Marty,nearest landmark to it would be Our Lady's Children's Hospital about 500 yards away.

The pitch and dressing rooms are still the same but afaik the Bar is closed.

[the 12 th man]

With all the money Guinness spend on Corporate responsibility stuff its a puzzle that they cut ties with a club with the connection they had with them.
Delighted to see them staying alive but with Bluebell and Crumlin operating with budgets at first division levels its hard to see them carving out a niche.

Diagio are not the soft touch Arthur Guinness were and have bigger fish to fry.

[Nesta99]

Indeed and it wouldnt be a surprise if not long after the new Diageo facility in Kildare is brought online that the St James Gate brewery will be wound down slowly, sold off bit by bit, not to cause too much of a stir. They are not ones for sentiment for sure especially if there is a legacy of extremely well paid staff.

[Kiki Balboa]

https://mobile.twitter.com/eoinneylon/status/1546835526627590151

Couple of tweets there might paint the picture,seems more and more clubs in the inner city are closing…..

There is a real lack of Urban Planning in Ireland (we all know the Housing Crisis)... One of the knock-on effects is on recreational use of land. Because of terrible and inefficient use of land (single houses - total reliance on large roads/ not public transport), there is simply no room for community land. High Rents of pitches and having no 'base' (home pitch- clubhouse) means that clubs will just come and go, and have very little staying power.


There now is just a run for who can provide the most houses (because it is such a desperate crisis (btw- Dundalk is more expensive to rent in than Berlin)... But it will only cause more problems in the future too as it is a Third World way of Urban planning- and has been done in Ireland before with large-scale Council Estates with no access to resources (it doesn't turn out great). It is such an awful crisis- and anyone that doesn't own land already - be it people, clubs or whatever- is going to find it very hard to survive.


In Drogheda, it is also particularly acute. Nearly all junior Drogheda teams are coming and going because they have no pitches. Some play their games outside of the Town in the countryside. Others just disappear. In what used to be a very vibrant soccer town, there is only one schoolboy's club now based in the actual town not affiliated with Drogheda United (Drogheda Town FC). Other clubs just don't have the schoolboy's pitches (like Boyne Rovers/ Newfoundwell/ Boyne Harps/ Drogheda Marsh Cresent)... All had schoolboy teams, but couldn't run a proper section because they just don't have the space. The best thing about the recent Drogheda proposal for a new stadium was the pitches around it. They are so desperately needed.

[Philosophizer]

Urban planning in Ireland is a catastrophe all right. I don't know how true this is, but I heard that on the continent, some university courses about city planning and urban design give Dublin as the example of what happens when you completely balls up city planning. Inefficient use of space, lading to inefficient public services and lack of local amenities. In the end, every citizen ends up paying more (not just financially) for sub standard services. There's no way around it. Proper urban planning has been almost non existent in Ireland for about a century. Hence you end up with an apartment in Dublin costing double what it costs in Berlin or Vienna, even though wages are roughly similar.

[EatYerGreens]

Urban planning in Ireland is a catastrophe all right. I don't know how true this is, but I heard that on the continent, some university courses about city planning and urban design give Dublin as the example of what happens when you completely balls up city planning. Inefficient use of space, lading to inefficient public services and lack of local amenities. In the end, every citizen ends up paying more (not just financially) for sub standard services. There's no way around it. Proper urban planning has been almost non existent in Ireland for about a century. Hence you end up with an apartment in Dublin costing double what it costs in Berlin or Vienna, even though wages are roughly similar.

The original creation of the modern version of Tallaght in the 1970s used to be used as a textbook example of bad urban planning. Moving thousands of inner-city families with young childre to the edge of a city in an area with no services for them and no family support structures (e.g. grandparents). Then lots of the kids became teenagers at roughly the same time, with still nothing there for them. A recipe for social disaster.

[EatYerGreens]

A few reasons seem to be combining to cause this but I think another big killer is they don't get any money from Diagio any more.

I don't think they did for years - probably not since Guinness sponsored them in their last LOI stint (?) What they did get was cheap access to a home ground etc through the now-defunct Guinness Athletic Union.