Linking up with schoolboy soccer

[BohDiddley]

I thought about putting this in 'The Phrase That Pays' but it doesn’t really fit there. PTP is for the here and now, but this is a longer-term strategy.
We often read on this and other football MBs how wonderfully organized the GAA is. An important part of that organization is the connection between the local club/parish and county level.
Every kid who plays GAA knows the path to the top level, because the sport is run in a joined-up manner, and they aspire to progressing to play at Croke Park. It's the GAA way.
That doesn't happen in soccer. In the minds of children playing in the schoolboy leagues, the next step for them, in their dreams, is Lansdowne Road and Old Trafford, or even Madrid or Barcelona. For reasons that have been well-rehearsed here and elsewhere, most have no awareness of, loyalty to, or aspirations towards the top level of football in their own country.
I have seen schoolboy teams in which, out of a squad of up to 17 players, one or maybe two will go to EL matches. These kids are swimming against the tide: being an EL supporter, perversely, puts the child outside the loop, because all of their team-mates, and their managers, are in thrall to the ManU/Arsenal/AC/Real circus. Turning up in an EL shirt gives the child curiosity status, at best.
Some managers and coaches, who often have no experience of real football, will actually feel threatened by the presence of such a shirt, even in Size 10-12 Years, because, for them, the local link does not compute. They will generally talk about English teams and managers, and will actively disparage LoI teams, spouting the usual myopic prejudices, of which we have lately seen an outbreak among sports hacks. Parents join in. Kids, who are naturally competitive, boast about their Nike 90s, but also about their trips to Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford.
Schoolboy soccer in Ireland has grown enormously in recent years. It used to be unusual to play for a schoolboy club, but now every other kid is doing it. We have seen the FAI argue for more funding on the basis of its enormous strength in numbers. But as yet the senior game is not benefiting from this growth as it should. That's because, although the numbers have changed, the old culture remains.
I propose a determined, long-term programme to promote EL football in kids' dressing rooms and clubhouses, to complement schemes like Kids Go Free. I think such a programme could be easily designed and implemented based on local networks and a few volunteers. For example, it wouldn't be hard to offer schoolboy teams special outings to EL matches, maybe even to meet one or two players. No doubt, some clubs already have schemes like this, and have links to various junior clubs, and the FAI summer schools already do their bit, but I think the key is that it is run and sustained on a national level, with high profile and a high awareness.
At a minimum, every schoolboy player walking into the clubhouse should see an EL poster advertising the next local game. EL should be part of the furniture at kids level. Ideally, every kid who plays soccer in Ireland should get to see the game played at its highest level -- in Ireland.
A campaign like this would bring rewards in the long run, in terms of engaging youngsters in a way that lets them see a real progression from where they are to professional players in Ireland. And, in the short term, it might drag some of the managers and barstooling oul' lads along, kicking and screaming, until they find themselves pleasantly surprised.
Of course, there will be the usual objections and doubts: IFA or League or club incompetence and inertia; media bias; or the sheer hopelessness of trying to take on Sky, RTE and the E. Prem.
But this is a way around those obstacles, because we are dealing with football players, already playing their game in Ireland. Imagine an Irish soccer scene in which every schoolboy player wanted to play for Bohs or Rovers, Cork or Shels, or whoever they identified with in the Premier or First Divisions. Is this really unachievable?

[Éanna]

AFAIK, City do have some form of link-up with the schoolboys league in Cork. Also regularly see City players in the Echo presenting the prizes at schoolboy clubs' awards nights. Its a small step, but hopefully it will pay off.

[superfrank]

Bray have lnks with St. Joseph's in Ballybrack, Zayed was once there but I don't think that's where we got him from.

Anyway, when I played schoolboy football, as recently as 2002, scouts from St. Joseph's were always at matches in the Wicklow League, where I played. I personally know three people who have gone to St. Joseph's, and I am aware of two others.

They only pick the very best players though. Two of the lads that went were top scorer's and one was the captain at his former team.

[BohDiddley]

Bray have lnks with St. Joseph's in Ballybrack, Zayed was once there but I don't think that's where we got him from.

Anyway, when I played schoolboy football, as recently as 2002, scouts from St. Joseph's were always at matches in the Wicklow League, where I played. I personally know three people who have gone to St. Joseph's, and I am aware of two others.

They only pick the very best players though. Two of the lads that went were top scorer's and one was the captain at his former team.
Joey's (of Sallynoggin, not Ballybrack) have good upward links, but they are the exception to the rule. I'm thinking of a nationally organized campaign that includes every single club so that no kid can escape!

PS: Joey's have a nasty habit of cannibalising other kids' teams too. See a kid stand out for any south Dublin team, and chances are you're looking at a future Joey's player. A good tactic for winning trophies, which of course reinforces the trend, but IMO not good for football. But that's another debate on another forum ...

[superfrank]

Joey's (of Sallynoggin, not Ballybrack) have good upward links, but they are the exception to the rule. I'm thinking of a nationally organized campaign that includes every single club so that no kid can escape!

PS: Joey's have a nasty habit of cannibalising other kids' teams too. See a kid stand out for any south Dublin team, and chances are you're looking at a future Joey's player. A good tactic for winning trophies, which of course reinforces the trend, but IMO not good for football. But that's another debate on another forum ...
It's that area anyway. Their pitches are near Tesco's in Ballybrack.

Joey's nasty habit came across in our League too. Many of the best players are gone by U-16 level.

[BrayZil]

I totally agree. AFAIK all Joeys players can get in free to Bray home games. UCD are linked with Mount Merrion and they give all the kids season tickets.

[monutdfc]

Licensing requires all eL teams to have at least 3 schoolboy teams. Some clubs with no underage infrastructure achieved this by a link-up with local schoolboy teams - eg UCD and Bray Wanderers.

I'm by no means sure, but I have heard that from next season this quick-fix won't be enough and in the future the schoolboy teams will have to be part of the club.

[Bald Student]

I have heard that from next season this quick-fix won't be enough and in the future the schoolboy teams will have to be part of the club.That seems a bit stupid, a university fielding a schoolboy team.

[monutdfc]

Quote selectively why don't you! I am by no means sure if this is true.
Agree it sounds stupid in UCD's case.

[Cosmo]

Drogs have no youth structure in place :mad: .

They have a 'link up' with boyne rovers though to cover themselves under uefa licensing afaik

[Terry]

Galway United and Salthill Devon are linked.

[monutdfc]

Galway United and Salthill Devon are linked.
Are they not the same club now?

[bigmac]

It's all very well people saying who their club is linked with but especially for clubs such as Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway etc. ie, those with a full market share, they should be linked with all the clubs in the area and just one or two because they have to.

It benefits the clubs as well - in Waterford's example we lost Shane Robinson to Rovers when he finished school (was in my year, along with John O'Shea) whereas Waterford Utd should have been talking to him and players like that from an early age.

There was a thread about how people started supporting their club here before, and it was agreed that if you can get people at a young age they are much more likely to stay fans. Why therefore, are the clubs not making their presence felt amongst the Junior leagues and in the school system? I really don't understand it at all. There are some teams that don't want to risk losing players to a LOI team but this is not a realistic worry for most clubs surely? When I played underage we never heard anything through the club or school structure about the EL.

In addition to this surely the clubs can get their full time professionals to do some of this work as part of their contracts?

[BohDiddley]

It's all very well people saying who their club is linked with but especially for clubs such as Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Galway etc. ie, those with a full market share, they should be linked with all the clubs in the area and not ;) just one or two because they have to.
Every single junior league club should have some point of contact with the EL. While lots of EL clubs have contacts with junior clubs, I'd say that many, and possibly even most, junior clubs have no link, formal or otherwise, with any EL outfit.

[jorge]

Drogs have no youth structure in place :mad: .

They have a 'link up' with boyne rovers though to cover themselves under uefa licensing afaik
wWhat about Drogheda Boys they've a good schoolboy set up.They have a few teams in the Premier.

[Cosmo]

There is no connection whatsoever between drogheda united and drogheda boys.

There used to be but not any more

[A face]

I thought about putting this in 'The Phrase That Pays' but it doesn’t really fit there. PTP is for the here and now, but this is a longer-term strategy.
We often read on this and other football MBs how wonderfully organized the GAA is. An important part of that organization is the connection between the local club/parish and county level.
Every kid who plays GAA knows the path to the top level, because the sport is run in a joined-up manner, and they aspire to progressing to play at Croke Park. It's the GAA way.
That doesn't happen in soccer. In the minds of children playing in the schoolboy leagues, the next step for them, in their dreams, is Lansdowne Road and Old Trafford, or even Madrid or Barcelona. For reasons that have been well-rehearsed here and elsewhere, most have no awareness of, loyalty to, or aspirations towards the top level of football in their own country.
I have seen schoolboy teams in which, out of a squad of up to 17 players, one or maybe two will go to EL matches. These kids are swimming against the tide: being an EL supporter, perversely, puts the child outside the loop, because all of their team-mates, and their managers, are in thrall to the ManU/Arsenal/AC/Real circus. Turning up in an EL shirt gives the child curiosity status, at best.
Some managers and coaches, who often have no experience of real football, will actually feel threatened by the presence of such a shirt, even in Size 10-12 Years, because, for them, the local link does not compute. They will generally talk about English teams and managers, and will actively disparage LoI teams, spouting the usual myopic prejudices, of which we have lately seen an outbreak among sports hacks. Parents join in. Kids, who are naturally competitive, boast about their Nike 90s, but also about their trips to Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford.
Schoolboy soccer in Ireland has grown enormously in recent years. It used to be unusual to play for a schoolboy club, but now every other kid is doing it. We have seen the FAI argue for more funding on the basis of its enormous strength in numbers. But as yet the senior game is not benefiting from this growth as it should. That's because, although the numbers have changed, the old culture remains.
I propose a determined, long-term programme to promote EL football in kids' dressing rooms and clubhouses, to complement schemes like Kids Go Free. I think such a programme could be easily designed and implemented based on local networks and a few volunteers. For example, it wouldn't be hard to offer schoolboy teams special outings to EL matches, maybe even to meet one or two players. No doubt, some clubs already have schemes like this, and have links to various junior clubs, and the FAI summer schools already do their bit, but I think the key is that it is run and sustained on a national level, with high profile and a high awareness.
At a minimum, every schoolboy player walking into the clubhouse should see an EL poster advertising the next local game. EL should be part of the furniture at kids level. Ideally, every kid who plays soccer in Ireland should get to see the game played at its highest level -- in Ireland.
A campaign like this would bring rewards in the long run, in terms of engaging youngsters in a way that lets them see a real progression from where they are to professional players in Ireland. And, in the short term, it might drag some of the managers and barstooling oul' lads along, kicking and screaming, until they find themselves pleasantly surprised.
Of course, there will be the usual objections and doubts: IFA or League or club incompetence and inertia; media bias; or the sheer hopelessness of trying to take on Sky, RTE and the E. Prem.
But this is a way around those obstacles, because we are dealing with football players, already playing their game in Ireland. Imagine an Irish soccer scene in which every schoolboy player wanted to play for Bohs or Rovers, Cork or Shels, or whoever they identified with in the Premier or First Divisions. Is this really unachievable?


An excellent post ..... well said BD ... fair play to ya.

[Comic Book Guy]

ditto, excellent post BD, plenty of food for thought.
How many of the EL clubs have their own schoolboy section?
I know my own team, Cobh Ramblers are ahead of the posse on this as they have their own schoolboy section, three of the current senior panel have been with the club since U-8.
The Schoolboy section have also merged with the other Schoolboy club in the town, Springfield, this should ensure that the best available talent in the town gets channelled into the senior set up.
Steve Henderson and his team have also been reaching out to other schoolboy clubs in the county which is great.
I suppose this is something that Drogheda, Waterford etc could copy, as in the case of Shane Robinson, John O'Flynn slipped through the net in Cobh and ended up playing his schoolboy football in Cork :mad: before going to Peterboro. I am sure almost every EL club could quote a similar example.

[MariborKev]

Derry have an academy setup with U-12,U-14,U-16 and U-18

This academy is made up of the best players put forward by the teams from the Derry and District Schoolboy league

[4tothefloor]

I thought about putting this in 'The Phrase That Pays' but it doesn’t really fit there. PTP is for the here and now, but this is a longer-term strategy.
We often read on this and other football MBs how wonderfully organized the GAA is. An important part of that organization is the connection between the local club/parish and county level.
Every kid who plays GAA knows the path to the top level, because the sport is run in a joined-up manner, and they aspire to progressing to play at Croke Park. It's the GAA way.
That doesn't happen in soccer. In the minds of children playing in the schoolboy leagues, the next step for them, in their dreams, is Lansdowne Road and Old Trafford, or even Madrid or Barcelona. For reasons that have been well-rehearsed here and elsewhere, most have no awareness of, loyalty to, or aspirations towards the top level of football in their own country.
I have seen schoolboy teams in which, out of a squad of up to 17 players, one or maybe two will go to EL matches. These kids are swimming against the tide: being an EL supporter, perversely, puts the child outside the loop, because all of their team-mates, and their managers, are in thrall to the ManU/Arsenal/AC/Real circus. Turning up in an EL shirt gives the child curiosity status, at best.
Some managers and coaches, who often have no experience of real football, will actually feel threatened by the presence of such a shirt, even in Size 10-12 Years, because, for them, the local link does not compute. They will generally talk about English teams and managers, and will actively disparage LoI teams, spouting the usual myopic prejudices, of which we have lately seen an outbreak among sports hacks. Parents join in. Kids, who are naturally competitive, boast about their Nike 90s, but also about their trips to Stamford Bridge and Old Trafford.
Schoolboy soccer in Ireland has grown enormously in recent years. It used to be unusual to play for a schoolboy club, but now every other kid is doing it. We have seen the FAI argue for more funding on the basis of its enormous strength in numbers. But as yet the senior game is not benefiting from this growth as it should. That's because, although the numbers have changed, the old culture remains.
I propose a determined, long-term programme to promote EL football in kids' dressing rooms and clubhouses, to complement schemes like Kids Go Free. I think such a programme could be easily designed and implemented based on local networks and a few volunteers. For example, it wouldn't be hard to offer schoolboy teams special outings to EL matches, maybe even to meet one or two players. No doubt, some clubs already have schemes like this, and have links to various junior clubs, and the FAI summer schools already do their bit, but I think the key is that it is run and sustained on a national level, with high profile and a high awareness.
At a minimum, every schoolboy player walking into the clubhouse should see an EL poster advertising the next local game. EL should be part of the furniture at kids level. Ideally, every kid who plays soccer in Ireland should get to see the game played at its highest level -- in Ireland.
A campaign like this would bring rewards in the long run, in terms of engaging youngsters in a way that lets them see a real progression from where they are to professional players in Ireland. And, in the short term, it might drag some of the managers and barstooling oul' lads along, kicking and screaming, until they find themselves pleasantly surprised.
Of course, there will be the usual objections and doubts: IFA or League or club incompetence and inertia; media bias; or the sheer hopelessness of trying to take on Sky, RTE and the E. Prem.
But this is a way around those obstacles, because we are dealing with football players, already playing their game in Ireland. Imagine an Irish soccer scene in which every schoolboy player wanted to play for Bohs or Rovers, Cork or Shels, or whoever they identified with in the Premier or First Divisions. Is this really unachievable?
Excellent post, idealistic, but certainly achievable. Junior players, let alone schoolboy players, should aspire to the EL. Truth is, the EL doesn't even register with most junior players. In the FAI the members are made up of representatives from the EL and the schoolboy\junior ranks. It can't be that hard to develop a plan to forge links betwee the various levels. I think something similar is featured in the Technical Development Plan.

On another note, kids going to Stamford Bridge? Surely not! :eek:

[pete]

I always got the impression the bigger schooboy teams resented the eL sides & don't want their kids playing eL as want to ship them to the Uk themselves so get their cut?

[A face]

I always got the impression the bigger schooboy teams resented the eL sides & don't want their kids playing eL as want to ship them to the Uk themselves so get their cut?

yeah .... they would get introduction fees etc. .... thing is though .... would eL clubs give fees/payments/reimbursements to clubs that provide player to them and then go on further. There has to be something in the system to facilitate this.

[Derek]

Dublin City have an affiliation with St Pauls Artane FC, this is working very well.

For example;

St Pauls provide balls boys for every home game. Once back in Whitehall we will have the 7 aside teams play half time games against other local teams and something that I am trying to setup is to have one of the teams in the halftime game come from the same area as the away team etc.etc.(we can't do this at the mo because Richmond Park don't allow it :mad: )

Some of the St Pauls A.U.L. players get to train with the Dublin City team which is a great way for adults to become familiar with the EL.

This is a great way to get kids/adults involved in the EL, it is slow to start these type of things and ignite the kids/adults interest but it seems to me that it actually gets kids/adults interested in the EL(even if it is the 1st div.)

[Éanna]

I always got the impression the bigger schooboy teams resented the eL sides & don't want their kids playing eL as want to ship them to the Uk themselves so get their cut?
Yeah, and to be fair, they are only looking out for themselves, so you can hardly blame them. eL sides have to really try and integrate themselves in the community as a whole, especially the football community if want to progress

[BohDiddley]

On another note, kids going to Stamford Bridge? Surely not! :eek:
I kid you not. That's how bad things are. :(