Embarrassment of Riches: Forwards

[samhaydenjr]

With the top six threads all being about forwards, I thought I'd add to the existing "Embarrassment of Riches" threads about goalkeepers and defenders. I know it was only recently some felt that we didn't know where our goals would be coming from (although that may have been primarily commenters on The 42) but I now think we are really starting to see the potential starting to blossom. So with that, I'm going to put our options into a few rough categories for people to assess. So, who do you think will be the ones to pick for The Nations League and Euro 24 qualifier? Who will be our main striker in coming years? Or will we be like Liverpool, with a number of potent options and a couple of decent back-ups? Who will we never see in a green shirt again? Where will be in five years?

The experienced forwards playing at a decent level:

Robinson, Hogan, Maguire, Collins, Keane

The young forwards who are already proving themselves at a decent level:

Idah, Connolly, Obafemi, Parrott, Scully

The young forwards who are just starting to gain significant first-team experience:

Odubeko, Kayode, Kavanagh, Varian

The young forwards who seem to be close to a first-team breakthrough:

Ferguson, Okoflex, Cannon, Armstrong, Kenny (I know he has good LOI experience)

The young forwards who seem to have taken a step back but are still young enough to build a good career

Keena, Cassidy, Afolabi, Drinan

Youngsters on the horizon

Zefi, McLoughlin, O'Mahony

So is there anybody else you lads feel will be forward options in coming years? Are there any youngsters, particularly playing LOI, who I have omitted? Is anyone from this group the next Robbie Keane? If not, will a number of them be able to score more than Quinn/Stapleton/Aldridge/Cascarino?

[CraftyToePoke]

Most embarrassing thing here is the thread title IMO. Look, we've a few lads who might, at a push, in a fair wind, make things a bit better than they have been for a while now. One or two of them might have top level goalscoring careers but thats still very uncertain. Its not an embarrassment of riches no matter how you stretch it out.

I was saying to some other supporters elsewhere that Portugals needing a goal throw of the dice late sub in the Euros ( v Belgium I think it was ) was a guy who had finished second top scorer in the Bundesliga, Silva. He had outscored Haaland that season IIRC .... Haaland like. Thats riches. While we go on about how everythings going to be ok because we have Idah & Parrott now.

We have some prospects, finally. But thats all it is.

[pineapple stu]

If you look back at the first page of the Aaron Connolly thread, four years ago almost to the day, there's this post -


In the U23 thread, I said after Aaron Drinan's hat-trick on April 9th, that he was officially our most exciting striking prospect

Drinan was starting to get called up to the Ipswich first team. Ok, he never played and that puts him behind many of the guys on the list here (except himself I guess), but it's also a good lesson in not getting carried away. Drinan is at Leyton Orient now.

I think in the spirit of the thread though, one of the big questions of the summer is where Troy Parrott will move to. Has he done enough to tempt a Championship club? I'm not sure he has, albeit he's finishing the season strongly and that's what you want to see in a young player who's supposed to be improving. I think his best bet may be that MK Dons get promoted and they sign him back because they know he fits their system. And you'd be happy enough with that outcome I think.

On a side note, was doing an article for the UCD programme this week and was amazed to see that Jimmy Dunne - 13 goals in 15 games in the 1930s - is still eleventh on our all-time goalscoring charts. I'd be happy with a couple of guys who could push him a bit further down that list.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm with Crafty. Plenty of players with potential to look out for and be hopeful about but I'd still say forward is a position where by tier 2 nation standards we're poorly stocked.

[Olé Olé]

A few names to add for me:

The young forwards who are just starting to gain significant first-team experience: Cian Hayes has played 20 league games or so for Fleetwood in League One and is only 18. Darragh Burns is a recent recruit from NI and has a bit more first team experience so might not be in the correct category. I haven't seen Hayes play but have seen Burns and he's an exciting player.

Youngsters on the horizon: Ollie O'Neill has looked very good for Ireland when I have seen him and his stats at Fulham are solid for their 23s with 6 goals and 2 assists. He's only 19. Hopefully he's in line for a loan next season. Lee Harkin has found a nice groove recently at Wolves for their 23s. Turns 19 soon.

[Eirambler]

We absolutely don't have an embarrassment of riches in our forwards at the moment unfortunately. Maybe in a year or two's time we might (or still might not), but at this point we absolutely don't.

I'm not sure if your interpretation of forwards is purely strikers or just attacking players but some other names to add in that might have some potential would be Ollie O'Neill, Andy Moran and Will Ferry. Ferry has been under the radar lately but is playing very well in League 2 at the moment.

Ogbene would be the other obvious name to add in. He can play a lot of positions but for Ireland he's a forward.

"Embarrassment of potential riches" might be a better name for this thread though.

[JR89]

I think in the spirit of the thread though, one of the big questions of the summer is where Troy Parrott will move to. Has he done enough to tempt a Championship club? I'm not sure he has, albeit he's finishing the season strongly and that's what you want to see in a young player who's supposed to be improving. I think his best bet may be that MK Dons get promoted and they sign him back because they know he fits their system. And you'd be happy enough with that outcome I think.

Clubs might not just be looking at can he make an instant impact for us when looking at Troy this summer. He's got two years left on his contract and Spurs might look to cash in now while he's showing a bit of form at the end of his loan spell. His next move could be permanent rather than a loan, or a loan to buy like Molumby's loan.

[pineapple stu]

Well that's true - I was thinking more in terms of a loan deal from Spurs for next year, and you'd expect a more immediate impact from a loan signing. But maybe a permanent deal wouldn't be a bad thing either. I don't think we should be wedded to the idea that he's a Spurs player and that's where he has to end up.

[Snapshot]

Will Keane has scored 24 goals and 6 assists so far this season. It's a powerful statistic. Browsing Sam's list, I cannot see even one other player capable of delivering such a tally at League One standard. Kenny should study Wigan's strategy of supply for Keane and give him starts in the Nations League. We've been whinging for years about the dearth of a goalscorer - now we have one.

[ifk101]

Keane was outstandingly useless against Lithuania - not a performance to build a team around in our next internationals. And based on that game, I'd put Scott Hogan ahead of Keane in the pecking order.

[JR89]

Well that's true - I was thinking more in terms of a loan deal from Spurs for next year, and you'd expect a more immediate impact from a loan signing. But maybe a permanent deal wouldn't be a bad thing either. I don't think we should be wedded to the idea that he's a Spurs player and that's where he has to end up.

Given the attacking players we've produced and sent across the water it was always a slim chance that he made it at Spurs. Moving on from Spurs could be the best thing for him long term. Gives him somewhere to develop long term and clubs can take a long term view on him rather than expecting him to make an instant impact when judging on whether to bring him in or not next season.

[Stuttgart88]

Makes a change from a year ago though I suppose, when the title would have been "Embarrassment: Forwards"

[Snapshot]

Keane was outstandingly useless against Lithuania - not a performance to build a team around in our next internationals. And based on that game, I'd put Scott Hogan ahead of Keane in the pecking order.
The Lithuania game was outstandingly useless, an embarrassment. Other than Parrott's strike, it did no credit to anyone, manager included. To denounce Keane's prospects on that basis is churlish. He deserves a fair go - nothing more, nothing less.

[ifk101]

To denounce Keane's prospects on that basis is churlish. He deserves a fair go - nothing more, nothing less.

We play a limited number of internationals a year - a more than fair go is getting to start a home international. He got his chance, he didn't take it. Harsh but true. And if he not capable of doing it against Lithuania, he's not a player to build a team around for the NL.

[Snapshot]

We play a limited number of internationals a year - a more than fair go is getting to start a home international. He got his chance, he didn't take it. Harsh but true. And if he not capable of doing it against Lithuania, he's not a player to build a team around for the NL.
If players were dismissed by your criteria we wouldn't field a team. A fair appraisal of a 30 goal/assist player is one game - an ugly, sub-standard bore in which no one seemed interested? Get real.

[JR89]

We play a limited number of internationals a year - a more than fair go is getting to start a home international. He got his chance, he didn't take it. Harsh but true. And if he not capable of doing it against Lithuania, he's not a player to build a team around for the NL.

Whose building a team around him. He's 29 and brought on board to boost numbers available to us. He's a squad player that offers an option from the bench, nothing more than that. It's why he didn't start against Belgium and why he'll be on the bench in June while Ogbene, Robinson, and Knight probably start again.

[elatedscum]

In terms of youngers on the horizon, Luke Pearce is one. Behind Ferguson, he's the one from 2004 who stands out.

In terms of LOI, from what I've seen Aido Emakhu is an obvious name, who could go on to be somebody. Cian Kavanagh looked good last season, saw Waterford play Sligo and himself and Kenny stood out. Haven't seen him play this season down in the lower division. Probably not good enough to play internationally but as good as Drinan, Keena etc are.

[ifk101]

If players were dismissed by your criteria we wouldn't field a team. A fair appraisal of a 30 goal/assist player is one game - an ugly, sub-standard bore in which no one seemed interested? Get real.

Lithuania was his third cap. He has had a gentle introduction to the squad and international football, and got to start a home international against Lithuania at a time he is peaking at club level. Glorious and generous opportunity to show what he could do and he completely fell flat. Real enough?


Whose building a team around him.

Nobody with sense.

[pineapple stu]

Whose building a team around him.
I think it's a reference to this post -


Will Keane has scored 24 goals and 6 assists so far this season. Kenny should study Wigan's strategy of supply for Keane and give him starts in the Nations League.
That does sound a bit like suggesting we build around Keane in fairness. I agree he was surprisingly poor against Lithuania and I don't think he's earned the right to start in June, but Kevin Kilbane had a rubbish debut too and went on to be quite good, so Keane is definitely worth having around the squad I think.

[jbyrne]

for us to dismiss any player after about a total of 90 mins football would be ridiculous.
mcgoldrick looked rubbish the first few times I saw him but grew to be the main man for a year or two

[Olé Olé]

This thread is a tricky one. I referenced Darragh Burns who is a winger or wide forward. I was about to reference CJ Hamilton as a new option but I note, for example, Ogbene isn't in here. Are we referring to strikers or anyone who can play across the front 3?

[Eirambler]

for us to dismiss any player after about a total of 90 mins football would be ridiculous.
mcgoldrick looked rubbish the first few times I saw him but grew to be the main man for a year or two

We dismissed Paul Butler after 45 minutes once I remember, and it was hard to argue with the call. Not saying Keane should get the same treatment, I'd keep him around the squad but I'd be waiting to see how he gets on at a higher level next season before I'd throw him in for another Ireland start.

To me it feels like if we're picking Keane to start and not picking Parrott we're doing it the wrong way around.

[Razors left peg]

I said in another thread that as bad as Will Keane was against Lithuania his goals record in the league this season makes him worth another look. We all have bad days at work. Doesnt matter that the opposition was terrible.

I think while we do have good prospects right now, and I'm as excited about some of these players as anyone, but we do not have an embarrassment of riches... yet.

There maybe a time in 3 years when we have fantastic players all playing at a high level and some good players will be left out of squads, kinda like whats starting to happen with our defenders with the likes of Lenihan and Dunne struggling to get in, but we arent there yet.

[Stuttgart88]

Keane did alright when he came on against Portugal. I'd keep him in the squad for sure but I think others are ahead of him to start.

[Exgrad]

No Shane Long? He's the one player appearing in the premier league regularly (since Idah injury). Which puts this embarrasment of riches list in some perspective tbh.

[ifk101]

Keane did alright when he came on against Portugal.

Belgium?

There’s room in the squad for a striker that’s disruptive. I was open to giving Will Keane a go for that reason. And sure, if we are launching balls into and around the 6-yard box, Keane’s goals this year show in these situations he can score goals. But our play has evolved and become more complex than that under Kenny, and Lithuania wasn’t a “bad night on the job” for Keane, but a glaring reveal of his shortcomings to play a modern game at senior international level. I’d move on from Keane and give those limited playing minutes to exploring other options.

[Snapshot]

Belgium?

There’s room in the squad for a striker that’s disruptive. I was open to giving Will Keane a go for that reason. And sure, if we are launching balls into and around the 6-yard box, Keane’s goals this year show in these situations he can score goals. But our play has evolved and become more complex than that under Kenny, and Lithuania wasn’t a “bad night on the job” for Keane, but a glaring reveal of his shortcomings to play a modern game at senior international level. I’d move on from Keane and give those limited playing minutes to exploring other options.
You're right. Keane was flummoxed by the complexity of the Lithuania game.

[Stuttgart88]

Belgium?

There’s room in the squad for a striker that’s disruptive. I was open to giving Will Keane a go for that reason. And sure, if we are launching balls into and around the 6-yard box, Keane’s goals this year show in these situations he can score goals. But our play has evolved and become more complex than that under Kenny, and Lithuania wasn’t a “bad night on the job” for Keane, but a glaring reveal of his shortcomings to play a modern game at senior international level. I’d move on from Keane and give those limited playing minutes to exploring other options.

Did he not come on after Pepe was sent off? pushed a guy causing a goal to be (probably rightly) disallowed?

[JR89]

Did he not come on after Pepe was sent off? pushed a guy causing a goal to be (probably rightly) disallowed?

Ref gave a soft free saying he fouled the keeper. Skip to 11.25 https://youtu.be/phFb4siGejM

[ifk101]

Did he not come on after Pepe was sent off? pushed a guy causing a goal to be (probably rightly) disallowed?

He did but didn’t think you were judging his performance as alright based on a couple of injury time minutes.

[seanfhear]

Ref gave a soft free saying he fouled the keeper. Skip to 11.25 https://youtu.be/phFb4siGejM
Soft is the word. The game would nearly have to become non contact if that is a free. In any case if he hadn’t got involved the goalkeeper probably would have easily collected the ball and there would have not been the goal. Very little in and the ref probably didn’t want to be responsible for Portugal losing to a late goal.

[JR89]

Soft is the word. The game would nearly have to become non contact if that is a free. In any case if he hadn’t got involved the goalkeeper probably would have easily collected the ball and there would have not been the goal. Very little in and the ref probably didn’t want to be responsible for Portugal losing to a late goal.

Yeah roles reversed and I think that goal probably stands more often than not.

[Stuttgart88]

Soft but just about correct imho. I'd have been furious if it had stood against us. I thought he was more than injury time? He wasn't on long but looked lively and keen.

[tetsujin1979]

The ref blew before the ball went in anyway, so he'd made his mind up early it was a foul, goal or not

[liamoo11]

We dismissed Paul Butler after 45 minutes once I remember, and it was hard to argue with the call. Not saying Keane should get the same treatment, I'd keep him around the squad but I'd be waiting to see how he gets on at a higher level next season before I'd throw him in for another Ireland start.

To me it feels like if we're picking Keane to start and not picking Parrott we're doing it the wrong way around.

I agree with this. We have made the effort to blood the likes of idah and parrott at the expense of say shane long with the aim ofvrrap8ngbthe benefits for the next 2 world Cup campaign s, I really think we should continue with that policy

[samhaydenjr]

Most embarrassing thing here is the thread title IMO. Look, we've a few lads who might, at a push, in a fair wind, make things a bit better than they have been for a while now. One or two of them might have top level goalscoring careers but thats still very uncertain. Its not an embarrassment of riches no matter how you stretch it out.

I was saying to some other supporters elsewhere that Portugals needing a goal throw of the dice late sub in the Euros ( v Belgium I think it was ) was a guy who had finished second top scorer in the Bundesliga, Silva. He had outscored Haaland that season IIRC .... Haaland like. Thats riches. While we go on about how everythings going to be ok because we have Idah & Parrott now.

We have some prospects, finally. But thats all it is.

It might be a little premature, yes, but with the recent form of Idah, Obafemi and Parrott, I think things are starting to take shape. I'm feeling confident that all three of these lads will be Championship level, at least; Connolly is a bit touch and go; Scully could also step up a level. We know what Robinson brings to the table. By the end of next season, I reckon there's a good chance we'll see Ferguson, Odubeko, Kavanagh, Okoflex and maybe Cannon break through. And another forward I didn't mention, Dara Costelloe, has already been in a Premier League matchday squad - so perhaps we're not quite there yet, but we may be quite soon. And I also want to note that the equivalent thread about goalkeeper is built around a back-up keeper with fewer than 20 appearances, a keeper with one decent Championship campaign and another back-up keeper on loan at a middling League One team


Will Keane has scored 24 goals and 6 assists so far this season. It's a powerful statistic. Browsing Sam's list, I cannot see even one other player capable of delivering such a tally at League One standard. Kenny should study Wigan's strategy of supply for Keane and give him starts in the Nations League. We've been whinging for years about the dearth of a goalscorer - now we have one.

With ten goals in his last seventeen games a level up, I think Obafemi could

[Snapshot]

Fair point - provided his loyalties are established. Keane/Obafemi have scored 36 goals in 91 appearances this season. Parrott/Idah have 10/63. Which duo poses the greater current threat? Planning for future WCs/Euros is fine but it's pie in the sky if it compromises the here and now . . . because we won't qualify. Where does that leave the promising youngsters of today? Nowhere. The most important game is the next one.

[Diggs246]

Parrott. Robinson and obefemi are miles better then idah and Keane. They will probably turn out better then ogbene as well.

The issue we have is knight must surely be accommodated in the front three leaving two spots for the rest

[Snapshot]

Parrott. Robinson and obefemi are miles better then idah and Keane. They will probably turn out better then ogbene as well.

The issue we have is knight must surely be accommodated in the front three leaving two spots for the rest
Why must Knight be accommodated as a forward? He's primarily a midfielder. Robinson should be subject to form like everyone else. Obefemi might not commit. Meanwhile Keane is scoring goals for fun - but is miles behind players who aren't!

[JR89]

Because he's shown how effective he can be in that LW position both in attack and defence.

[Diggs246]

Why must Knight be accommodated as a forward? He's primarily a midfielder. Robinson should be subject to form like everyone else. Obefemi might not commit. Meanwhile Keane is scoring goals for fun - but is miles behind players who aren't!

The system allows for cullen and jeff in the middle. Knight could take Jeffs place ..won't he won't

[Snapshot]

The system allows for cullen and jeff in the middle. Knight could take Jeffs place ..won't he won't
Two poor campaigns and two easy-beat competitive wins in sixteen games. The system.

[elatedscum]

Why must Knight be accommodated as a forward? He's primarily a midfielder. Robinson should be subject to form like everyone else. Obefemi might not commit. Meanwhile Keane is scoring goals for fun - but is miles behind players who aren't!

Asking Knight to play in a midfield 2 and a midfield 3 are two different things. I'm not saying he can't do it, but you'd be restricting him from doing the things he does best.

If you consider the roles that Cullen and Hendrick are asked to play, they're generally behind the ball, doing more defensive work and early build up play, and are rarely in positions in the final third to impact. you probably want Knight to have a little more freedom

[Eirambler]

Two poor campaigns and two easy-beat competitive wins in sixteen games. The system.

To be fair "the system" wasn't used for much of that period - and it was at its worst when we tried to play three forwards rather than a Knight or McGrath in an advanced position alongside two forwards.

So the selection of Knight where he is being picked is sound. The rest of them can battle it out for the other two forward places.

[Razors left peg]

Parrott. Robinson and obefemi are miles better then idah and Keane. They will probably turn out better then ogbene as well.

The issue we have is knight must surely be accommodated in the front three leaving two spots for the rest

And yet Idah was the only one playing in the Premiership this season and was in good form before his season ending injury. Right now I'd actually have Idah as the current best forward we have. His performance away to Portugal was brilliant.

[pineapple stu]

Idah was good away against Portugal, but that's about it really. Hauling him off in Luxembourg changed the game, by contrast.

His good Premier League form was patchy I think. A couple of poor performances (like a lot of his teammates), and a couple of good games which yielded a slightly fortunate goal, a very bad miss, and a couple of assists. I think he lacks a bit of composure in front of goal still and needs more playing time to address that.

Obafemi's form (if he pops along in June, yadda yadda yadda) is far more impressive than Idah's. 8 goals and a couple of assists in 12 games is sit-up-and-take-notice form. Parrott is also starting to deliver, albeit at a lower level and I'd like to see how he does and where he's at next season before saying he's miles better than others in the squad.

I wouldn't have Idah as the best forward we have available to us. Robinson - who I've said before isn't droppable - scored six times last autumn for example. Idah started two of those games and didn't get a sniff at goal. (I know scoring goals isn't the be-all-and-end-all for forwards, but it's a big deal nonetheless)

[Razors left peg]

Obafemis form in the last couple months has been great, but from what Ive seen of both over all I think Idah is a better player personally.

[paul_oshea]

What makes you think that? What has he done to give you that opinion? Have you watched equal amounts of them at club level? Or is it based on the fact you've just seen idah playing for Ireland and a handful of games in the premiership and not the same for obafemi?

[Razors left peg]

I watched most of Swanseas games in the last couple months and watched all of Norwich games when Idah played this season.

I also watch both of them in ever u21 game they played for Ireland.

[samhaydenjr]

With Parrott getting four goals in a game recently, Cannon doing likewise, Idah starting to score again at Celtic, Mark O'Mahony scoring in his last two games for Pompey, Sinclair Armstrong showing some goalscoring form, and even Obafemi hitting the back of the net today, is it overly optimistic of me to resurrect this thread? Perhaps, but if Connolly comes off the bench next week to score a last-minute winner for Sunderland, I think it will be justified