Embarrassment of riches: centre half

[elatedscum]

You’ve got Egan and Duffy. Obvious selections both turning 30 this year

You’ve got the three youngsters in the squad: Omobamidele, Collins and O’Shea.

You’ve got the championship replacements: Lenihan, Jimmy Dunne and Manning

You’ve got the premier leaguers on the outs: Clark and Kevin Long

You’ve got the current 21s: McGuinness and Cashin who are playing regularly in the championship at age 20/21

You’ve got the lads playing in Scotland: Danno Cleary, along with Conor McCarthy, Charles Dunne and Joe O’Shaughnessy, the latter two were both tipped for a call up by Jim Goodwin recently.

And the lads down in league one who have been mentioned: Conor Masterson, Luke McNally, Conor O’Shaughnessy, Sean Raggett, Warren O'Hora (considering the success of Ogbene, Bazunu - it’s hard to rule out a league 1 player)

Unless you’re prepared to go down to league 2, which seems a stretch (Pearce Sweeney, Paudie O’Connor), that’s the list exhausted as far as I know

[elatedscum]

Someone mentioned making this earlier today.

Also saw the alleged bid for Luke McNally from Spurs today

And an interview with Danno Cleary where he talked about international recognition and who was, for me, the outstanding LOI centre half for about 3 years and I reckon is easily a championship defender: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/st-johnstone-defender-dan-cleary-26605026

Similarly I hadn’t really thought of Charles Dunne or Joe O’Shaughnessy as in the international frame at all till Goodwin came out with this: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/jim-goodwin-insists-st-mirren-26167673.amp (sorry about Google amp)

Goodwin told Express Sport: “I told Kenny not to forget that Charles Dunne and Joe Shaughnessy are both eligible because those two lads have been outstanding since we switched to a back four.
“I don’t know if you’ll find a better partnership in the country right now.
“They’re so consistent and a couple of real leaders that you would want in any team.
“They’re also so balanced as well. Dunne is left-sided, quick and strong, and Joe right-sided and strong too.
“They have been a real focus point and key to the success we’ve had recently. They both deserve a big pat on the back.”

[gastric]

Someone mentioned making this earlier today.

Also saw the alleged bid for Luke McNally from Spurs today

And an interview with Danno Cleary where he talked about international recognition and who was, for me, the outstanding LOI centre half for about 3 years and I reckon is easily a championship defender: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/st-johnstone-defender-dan-cleary-26605026

Similarly I hadn’t really thought of Charles Dunne or Joe O’Shaughnessy as in the international frame at all till Goodwin came out with this: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/jim-goodwin-insists-st-mirren-26167673.amp (sorry about Google amp)

Goodwin told Express Sport: “I told Kenny not to forget that Charles Dunne and Joe Shaughnessy are both eligible because those two lads have been outstanding since we switched to a back four.
“I don’t know if you’ll find a better partnership in the country right now.
“They’re so consistent and a couple of real leaders that you would want in any team.
“They’re also so balanced as well. Dunne is left-sided, quick and strong, and Joe right-sided and strong too.
“They have been a real focus point and key to the success we’ve had recently. They both deserve a big pat on the back.”

You have opened a cans of worms! The resident forensic scientists will turn this into a no go zone soon enough! :(

[CraftyToePoke]

You’ve got Egan and Duffy. Obvious selections both turning 30 this year

You’ve got the three youngsters in the squad: Omobamidele, Collins and O’Shea.

You’ve got the championship replacements: Lenihan, Jimmy Dunne and Manning

You’ve got the premier leaguers on the outs: Clark and Kevin Long

You’ve got the current 21s: McGuinness and Cashin who are playing regularly in the championship at age 20/21

You’ve got the lads playing in Scotland: Danno Cleary, along with Conor McCarthy, Charles Dunne and Joe O’Shaughnessy, the latter two were both tipped for a call up by Jim Goodwin recently.

And the lads down in league one who have been mentioned: Conor Masterson, Luke McNally, Conor O’Shaughnessy, Sean Raggett, Warren O'Hora (considering the success of Ogbene, Bazunu - it’s hard to rule out a league 1 player)

Unless you’re prepared to go down to league 2, which seems a stretch (Pearce Sweeney, Paudie O’Connor), that’s the list exhausted as far as I know

Sean McLoughlin is playing every week for Hull in the Championship too, has really established himself this season there. 25, signed a new three year deal last year & interestingly has played left back. He's an outsider, yes, but as we're at it ....

[John83]

You have opened a cans of worms! The resident forensic scientists will turn this into a no go zone soon enough! :(
Cut out the trolling.

[ontheotherhand]

Someone mentioned making this earlier today.

Also saw the alleged bid for Luke McNally from Spurs today

And an interview with Danno Cleary where he talked about international recognition and who was, for me, the outstanding LOI centre half for about 3 years and I reckon is easily a championship defender: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/st-johnstone-defender-dan-cleary-26605026

Similarly I hadn’t really thought of Charles Dunne or Joe O’Shaughnessy as in the international frame at all till Goodwin came out with this: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/jim-goodwin-insists-st-mirren-26167673.amp (sorry about Google amp)

Goodwin told Express Sport: “I told Kenny not to forget that Charles Dunne and Joe Shaughnessy are both eligible because those two lads have been outstanding since we switched to a back four.
“I don’t know if you’ll find a better partnership in the country right now.
“They’re so consistent and a couple of real leaders that you would want in any team.
“They’re also so balanced as well. Dunne is left-sided, quick and strong, and Joe right-sided and strong too.
“They have been a real focus point and key to the success we’ve had recently. They both deserve a big pat on the back.”

He was definitely the outstanding centre half at Dundalk for about 3 years...

Great list all the same! Wouldn't be shocked to see Liam Scales have to move clubs next season and make a switch to either LCB or LB. I don't think he'll adjust to Celtic's system where he ends up playing on the inside as he goes forward but he has potential and could make it on this list at some point.

We look nicely set up for a few years anyway and I'm really excited about Collins and Omobamidele who look to have genuinely top level potential. And we have Duffy and Egan around for another while to build around.

[third policeman]

We look nicely set up for a few years anyway and I'm really excited about Collins and Omobamidele who look to have genuinely top level potential. And we have Duffy and Egan around for another while to build around.

I think we may to have be a bit creative to accommodate the surplus of CB talent. Based on the other night, I could see Collins competing for a midfield position. Think he could be effective there in a similar way that McGrath was.

[tetsujin1979]

Full list of defenders in the UK here: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/PositionDetails?positionID=2

[Olé Olé]

The thing about this all is that Lenihan is just making the squad and appears to be one of the best centre halves in the Championship. There are too many options ahead of him. Dunne is not making the initial squad and seems to be proving himself as a very good Championship defender. They're definitely next in the queue.

After that, it will need someone to do what Dunne has done and establish themselves at that level. The lads in Scotland are at a disadvantage given that one could argue it is comparable to League One. On top of that, none of them are so young that they need exposure and blooding for future benefit. Conor McCarthy seems to have had a couple of injury issues and them moving to a back four has seen him drop out of the team. Rotherham made a bid that was rejected last summer which, in hindsight, is very disappointing given how this season has panned out for him.

McGuinness is surely a live option given his level. After that, McNally, Masterson and O'Hora could do with stepping up to try and earn a chance but that will require withdrawals. Let's see how many of them can do it this summer. There seems to be a good chance of McNally and O'Hora achieving it by promotion or transfer.

[passinginterest]

There's a lot of depth there now. I don't think Jake O'Brien has been mentioned yet either. For me he's been the better of he centre backs when playing beside McGuinness in the 21s. He's a huge unit, not unlike Collins and he's getting first team experience with Swindon now too having done well with Crystal Palace 23s. There's going to be a lot of players disappointed to not be making squads, never mind getting game time, in the next few years.

[kennedmc]

You’ve got Egan and Duffy. Obvious selections both turning 30 this year

You’ve got the three youngsters in the squad: Omobamidele, Collins and O’Shea.

You’ve got the championship replacements: Lenihan, Jimmy Dunne and Manning

You’ve got the premier leaguers on the outs: Clark and Kevin Long

You’ve got the current 21s: McGuinness and Cashin who are playing regularly in the championship at age 20/21

You’ve got the lads playing in Scotland: Danno Cleary, along with Conor McCarthy, Charles Dunne and Joe O’Shaughnessy, the latter two were both tipped for a call up by Jim Goodwin recently.

And the lads down in league one who have been mentioned: Conor Masterson, Luke McNally, Conor O’Shaughnessy, Sean Raggett, Warren O'Hora (considering the success of Ogbene, Bazunu - it’s hard to rule out a league 1 player)

Unless you’re prepared to go down to league 2, which seems a stretch (Pearce Sweeney, Paudie O’Connor), that’s the list exhausted as far as I know

What about James Abankwah? I thought he was a centre half.

To me the fact that clubs are spending decent money on Abankwah (at only 18) and McNally (Assuming it happens) is a big positive sign. Because they are both playing senior ball and all clubs analyse player performance to death now with analytics / big data tools etc - they have obviously identified something in these players.

The reality is it is much harder to asses how good a player is between 15 and 17 or if they are playing U19 / PL2 or U21 level. No hiding place in senior ball.

Potentially use of our centre halves include:
Oshea - can do a job at full back
Collins - can do a job at full back / potentially midfield although need to see more
Lenihan - I think he has played FB for rovers
Manning - can do a job full back / LWB
Abankwah - listening to Stewie Byrne (I think) on OTB last weekend he was 100% convinced that he will end up as a midfielder (He didn't elaborate why!)
Omobamidele - looks good on ball but haven#t seen enough of him yet

Of course no idea if above can play FB to international standard. Also even if you have a very good ball playing centre half it doesn't mean they make it as a midfielder even a defensive mid. Totally different skillset

[EAFC_rdfl]

While he's not a centre half, it's probably time to include Coleman on this list too. He wouldn't be the first full back to accept the pace is gone and move inside. Yes I'm holding a mirror to myself there!

[TonyD]

I think we may to have be a bit creative to accommodate the surplus of CB talent. Based on the other night, I could see Collins competing for a midfield position. Think he could be effective there in a similar way that McGrath was.

I had thought the same about Omobamele previously.

[Jd2793]

dont see collins as anything other than a cb. definitely not a full back in my mind anyway.

[John83]

I had thought the same about Omobamele previously.
And everyone's favourite Argentinian poster has said it ad nausium about O'Shea.

Was it late Charlton era where we fielded six full backs in a starting XI? Or early McCarthy?

[pineapple stu]

Was that the Portugal 3-0 game away? Or the Holland play-off? Both the tail end of Euro 96 qualifying.

Wasn't a good idea anyway!

[ColourfulPeanut]

People vastly understimate how hard it is and how different a skillset it is to play in midfield at the top level. Just because a centre back has a bit of football about them, doesn't mean they can just play in midfield and succeed.

[passinginterest]

Of all of them Omobamidele is the one that I think looks the most like he could play centre mid. I think he's probably the most mobile and quick on the turn. As good as Collins looks he's never going to be particularly quick on the swivel and to step up to that central pivot role the one thing you really need is quick feet (see Cullen v Hourihane as evidence).

[Paddy Garcia]

Was that the Portugal 3-0 game away? Or the Holland play-off? Both the tail end of Euro 96 qualifying.

Wasn't a good idea anyway!

It was the Anfield Holland play off

[seanfhear]

We’d have a chance at winning A World Cup if there was one with a Team of just 11 Centre Backs on the field and only Centre Back Subs.

[Razors left peg]

People vastly understimate how hard it is and how different a skillset it is to play in midfield at the top level. Just because a centre back has a bit of football about them, doesn't mean they can just play in midfield and succeed.

Agreed, theres the obvious one in recent years who seems to be able to do it, his name rhymes with Spice.

[JR89]

Agreed, theres the obvious one in recent years who seems to be able to do it, his name rhymes with Spice.

Wasn't Rice a midfielder that could also play CB. Just played CB until Kouyate was sold to Palace.

[Razors left peg]

Wasn't Rice a midfielder that could also play CB. Just played CB until Kouyate was sold to Palace.

I think I remember that he started as a defender but I could be wrong

[JR89]

What about James Abankwah? I thought he was a centre half.

To me the fact that clubs are spending decent money on Abankwah (at only 18) and McNally (Assuming it happens) is a big positive sign. Because they are both playing senior ball and all clubs analyse player performance to death now with analytics / big data tools etc - they have obviously identified something in these players.

The reality is it is much harder to asses how good a player is between 15 and 17 or if they are playing U19 / PL2 or U21 level. No hiding place in senior ball.

Potentially use of our centre halves include:
Oshea - can do a job at full back
Collins - can do a job at full back / potentially midfield although need to see more
Lenihan - I think he has played FB for rovers
Manning - can do a job full back / LWB
Abankwah - listening to Stewie Byrne (I think) on OTB last weekend he was 100% convinced that he will end up as a midfielder (He didn't elaborate why!)
Omobamidele - looks good on ball but haven#t seen enough of him yet

Of course no idea if above can play FB to international standard. Also even if you have a very good ball playing centre half it doesn't mean they make it as a midfielder even a defensive mid. Totally different skillset

Like Sean Roughan I think long term Abankwah's position will be CB. The way we set up now at senior level is probably the best set up for us to use long term and should be something the FAI consider whenever time comes to appoint the next manager.

Bosun Lawal is another lad that plays CB but played midfield before moving to Celtic. Think we should keep playing him in midfield rather than CB given the abundance of CBs we've got already. Unlike CB we don't have that many defensive midfielders and outside of Cullen it's all young lads in the underage. He'd also be more defensively minded than someone like Kilkenny whose more a ball player when playing as the 6.

[Trequartista20]

It was the Anfield Holland play off

Four fullbacks, Six defenders.

Staunton (Another fullback) was missing and Phelan took his place on the left of midfield, though there was no need to pick Kenna ahead of McAteer and Houghton. I think Jack was worried about the pacy Dutch wingers after what had happened in the World Cup defeat.

[Eirambler]

Mazeed Ogungbo on the bench for Arsenal tonight. Was with our Under 20s last week. Good to see an Irish player making the bench for Arsenal in the league, but he is, of course, a centre back.

[JR89]

If he plays for us and makes it at senior level would slot in nicely at LCB. Played LB with the 19s just before underage footballer came to a halt and has played LB/LWB for Arsenal 23s this season.

[John83]

A good left wing back would be even more welcome, of course, but Arsenal seem to really have gotten their act together, so him making their bench is no small achievement.

[Stuttgart88]

A good left wing back would be even more welcome, of course, but Arsenal seem to really have gotten their act together, so him making their bench is no small achievement.
You obviously didn't see them last night! Tierney injured, possibly for the season. His replacement Tavares was subbed early having had a tough time.

[John83]

That might be an opportunity for Ogungo, no?

[Stuttgart88]

You'd think so, though I'd say an improvised solution like Zhaka at LWB is more likely.

[Eirambler]

I'm not sure if you'd call it an embarrassment of riches - maybe an embarrassment of depth - but by my count 23 clubs in the Championship and League 1 now have at least one Irish centre back in their first team squads (in some cases more than one). Will probably be more by the time the season starts.

[seanfhear]

I'm not sure if you'd call it an embarrassment of riches - maybe an embarrassment of depth - but by my count 23 clubs in the Championship and League 1 now have at least one Irish centre back in their first team squads (in some cases more than one). Will probably be more by the time the season starts.
In centre-back terms for a small football country like Ireland that is Riches.

[dr_peepee]

I’m nearly sure there was a weekend soon after WC2002 where we had 7 CBs play in a Premiership fixture. I think….
Steve Staunton
Phil Babb
Gary Doherty
Andy O’Brien
Kenny Cunningham
Gary Breen
Richie Dunne

[Trequartista20]

I’m nearly sure there was a weekend soon after WC2002 where we had 7 CBs play in a Premiership fixture. I think….
Steve Staunton
Phil Babb
Gary Doherty
Andy O’Brien
Kenny Cunningham
Gary Breen
Richie Dunne

John O'Shea made 32 league appearances for United in 2002/03 and I think Kenna was playing at centre-back for Birmingham that season, too.

[third policeman]

I’m nearly sure there was a weekend soon after WC2002 where we had 7 CBs play in a Premiership fixture. I think….
Steve Staunton
Phil Babb
Gary Doherty
Andy O’Brien
Kenny Cunningham
Gary Breen
Richie Dunne

Think it’s fair to say one or two of those guys wouldn’t be playing in the PL if they were playing today.

[Fixer82]

Was Gary Doherty playing CF or CB that week?

[third policeman]

Was Gary Doherty playing CF or CB that week?

From what I remember it was often hard to tell where he was playing and who for. Had him and Babb in mind with the last post. Babb looked decent early on for us and Liverpool, but seemed to unwind and became a bit of a liability.

[Trequartista20]

Think it’s fair to say one or two of those guys wouldn’t be playing in the PL if they were playing today.

Would any of those players, at that point in their careers, be capable of playing at PL level now?

Maybe Dunne.

[Eirambler]

Staunton was well into the veteran stage at that point, may have been a squad player in the Premier League today, similar to Coleman at Everton.

Babb was over promoted with the Liverpool move in the 90s, I don't think he'd have been good enough for the league today. I'm not sure he even was back then.

Doherty was a Championship standard player then, let alone now. No way he'd get near a Spurs team today.

Andy O’Brien was actually quite well regarded at that point, maybe a bottom 6 EPL team if he was around now?

Cunningham would be a good EPL squad player if he was at his peak today I think.

Breen probably mid table Championship, I like the guy but he always had a mistake in him.

Richie Dunne was still in his early career status in terms of fitness at that point (overweight and under conditioned). He'd probably have been on loan in the Championship in today's league in that condition - but would go on to be a great EPL player in time.

[dr_peepee]

I liked Babb. I used to think Bjorneby left him more exposed on the left than scales was on the right side of the 3 CBs. But I also get the sense there was a touch of the spice boy lifestyle about him too. Great USA 94 though.

[Razors left peg]

My father in law in Portugal loved Babb. The whole family are big Sporting Lisbon fans and Babb was on the last league winning team before they won 2 seasons ago.

[samhaydenjr]

I'm not sure if you'd call it an embarrassment of riches - maybe an embarrassment of depth - but by my count 23 clubs in the Championship and League 1 now have at least one Irish centre back in their first team squads (in some cases more than one). Will probably be more by the time the season starts.

I was thinking after seeing this and a couple of other posts whether we should re-name this thread and the two similar ones that deal with goalkeepers and forwards from "Embarrassment of riches" to "New Golden Generation?"

[seanfhear]

I was thinking after seeing this and a couple of other posts whether we should re-name this thread and the two similar ones that deal with goalkeepers and forwards from "Embarrassment of riches" to "New Golden Generation?"
NO ~ ~ Heard more than enough of that about the English Golden Generation and how that turned Out ! !

[Eirambler]

Maybe "slightly less **** than the last generation" or something like that...

[samhaydenjr]

NO ~ ~ Heard more than enough of that about the English Golden Generation and how that turned Out ! !


Maybe "slightly less **** than the last generation" or something like that...

Wow, that's some serious cynicism, which surely is no longer justified by reality. First, though, the "awful" last generation did get us to the last 16 of the European Championships and a World Cup Playoff. But even given that, there really is cause for optimism, grounded in reality, that the group of players coming through will be significantly better. And we can assess the situation from a number of perspectives.

- Looking at recent goals, Parrott's winner against Lithuania and Obafemi's worldie were statement goals comparable to Robbie Keane's second against Malta in '98.
- Looking at personnel, we have three high quality goalkeepers in their early 20s, two of whom will quite possibly play more PL games this season alone than Darren Randolph did in his entire career; in defence, Nathan Collins looks like he could challenge Paul McGrath to be our best centre-half ever, with Omobamidele and O'Shea also likely to be better than Duffy and Egan; up front it is looking more and more likely that at least three of the quartet of Parrott, Obafemi, Idah and Connolly will deliver on their early promise, with a number of other breakthroughs possible over the next season; Our midfield is a little thinner currently but if even a couple from Smallbone/Coventry/Moran/Kilkenny/Hodge/Noss/Finn break through next season then it will start to look really decent
- And in terms of youth coming through, our U21s have just reach a qualifying playoff for the first time ever, in spite of nine players being moved up to the senior squad. Pre-pandemic our U17s appeared in three Finals tournaments in a row (one as hosts) and were on target to make it four when COVID hit.

[pineapple stu]

What's a "statement goal"?

Were David Kelly's goals v Israel in 1987 "statement goals"?

Or Keith O'Neill's goal v Bolivia in 96?

[seanfhear]

What's a "statement goal"?

Were David Kelly's goals v Israel in 1987 "statement goals"?

Or Keith O'Neill's goal v Bolivia in 96?
So good they had to make a statement to the Guards after the match ! !

[Stuttgart88]

What's a "statement goal"?

Were David Kelly's goals v Israel in 1987 "statement goals"?

Or Keith O'Neill's goal v Bolivia in 96?It was pretty clear to me what he meant.

[pineapple stu]

It was pretty clear to me what he meant.
Ok - but was it not pretty clear what I meant in reply too?

A statement goal doesn't have to predict a golden generation or a great international career.

Or if that is the view being taken, I think it's got more than a tinge of Sam's usual slightly excessive optimism.

Eirambler's post is much more reasoned I think