The 12th ...should be a holiday down here?

[Lionel Ritchie]

What ye reckon? apparently IMPACT or someone similar recently called for july 12th to be made a national holiday in this state.

I'm all for it. Particularly as I look out at the sun beating down and ask what the hell am I doing in here when I could be off getting smashed toasting a 400 year old dutch midget with a bad wig and equally poor horsemanship.

I think it'd be a useful excercise in ...uhm ... bridgebuilding, reconciliation and whatever the fcuk else gets me outta here on a day like today.

[Gareth]

Hmm interesting, make an national holiday out of a victory by the other side...like celebarting your team losing really?

[pineapple stu]

Hmm interesting, make an national holiday out of a victory by the other side...like celebarting your team losing really?
Nail on head. Not a chance. May as well celebrate the Queen's birthday.

Can see where you're coming from, but why not a national holiday for something proper - like Packie Bonner's save in Italia '90? :)

[wws]

i think its a great idea - fck the marches and sh;t - but mid july is tailor made for a public holiday!

[Eire06]

Hmm interesting, make an national holiday out of a victory by the other side...like celebarting your team losing really?
Exactly.. Why would we I'd welcome any extra bank holidays on any other days but if this was given (which it won't) I would make a point of working on that day!!

Totally stupid idea :rolleyes:

[Pat O' Banton]

Hmm interesting, make an national holiday out of a victory by the other side...like celebarting your team losing really?

Otherside? How was James II on our side? William and James didn't particularly care for Ireland (James certainly wouldn't have been here if he thought he could raise a successful army in England) Ireland was useful for troops annd to wage a battle. Neutral territory for a war being fought on a Europe wide stage.

If you lot get a holiday then I want one over here as well afterall it isn't there an equal faclacy that William's victory protected Britain 'civil and religious liberty' :rolleyes:

[Macy]

like celebarting your team losing really?
Sure we could hold a big rally in the pheonix park and get Joe Duffy to host it...

Like others have said, if we could guarantee a day like today then I wouldn't really have a problem with it, once it was an extra day not instead of another...

[pineapple stu]

but mid july is tailor made for a public holiday!
Monday fortnight too far away for you?! ;)

[Macy]

Monday fortnight too far away for you?! ;)
Move that back to the end of August - bring the whole island into line with each other. ;)

[Eire06]

Otherside? How was James II on our side? William and James didn't particularly care for Ireland (James certainly wouldn't have been here if he thought he could raise a successful army in England) Ireland was useful for troops annd to wage a battle. Neutral territory for a war being fought on a Europe wide stage.

If you lot get a holiday then I want one over here as well afterall it isn't there an equal faclacy that William's victory protected Britain 'civil and religious liberty' :rolleyes:
Are you not Irish Pat? :rolleyes:
I thought you were one of us!! oh well I've been corrected

[Schumi]

Monday fortnight too far away for you?! ;)
The weather'll be $hit by then!

[Pat O' Banton]

Are you not Irish Pat? :rolleyes:
I thought you were one of us!! oh well I've been corrected

Hmmm, I thought a wise one would pick up on that, I was refering to Irish people across the water (with there flashy RTE!)

[Eire06]

Hmmm, I thought a wise one would pick up on that, I was refering to Irish people across the water (with there flashy RTE!)
naa naa nana naa :p
;)
And we pay for it ourselves too ;)

[monutdfc]

Of course, you all know the Battle of the Boyne took place on 1st July. The Orangemen commemorate it on 12 July because at the time they were still working off the Julian clander, refusing to recognise the Gregorian calendar (devised by Pope Gregory) and so were 12 days out of step.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Otherside? How was James II on our side? William and James didn't particularly care for Ireland (James certainly wouldn't have been here if he thought he could raise a successful army in England) Ireland was useful for troops annd to wage a battle. Neutral territory for a war being fought on a Europe wide stage.

If you lot get a holiday then I want one over here as well afterall it isn't there an equal faclacy that William's victory protected Britain 'civil and religious liberty' :rolleyes:

Well said Pat, the conflict had little if anything to do with Anglo-Irish or Protestant-Catholic issues. It was about Parliamentarianism versus Royalism.

Now -I've seen that overstated to paint William as a democrat -which he certainly was not - but he did see that this turkey of letting lands be ruled theocratically by increasingly inbred idiots wasn't going to fly or at least for not much longer.

He believed executive power should be weilded by himself and others like him ( ruling classes?) collectively and kings should only be there to rubber stamp decicisions made by those competent to take them.

But the Catholic-Protestant thing is one of the biggest and most misleading straw-men raised about this conflict. Amongst the armies William brought here and who fought James at the Boyne were the Dutch Dragoons -a Roman Catholic regiment.

[Dublin12]

What a crazy idea :rolleyes: ,how do you expect people in the Republic to react to a bonfire with a tricolour on top waiting too be torched,surely it would lead to the same thing in the Republic except with the Union Jack,a bit of a backward step.

[Lionel Ritchie]

how do you expect people in the Republic to react to a bonfire with a tricolour on top waiting too be torched,surely it would lead to the same thing in the Republic except with the Union Jack,a bit of a backward step.

Well first off that happens on the 11th night and they have to watch our flag on top of a bonfire anyway. (I always think it's kind of funny to see these massive tricolours that some chav had to buy make or steal waving stoically atop loyalist areas :D ) Only difference at the moment is that while the smouldering embers of these environmentally criminal chav-fest bonfires are fading -we down here are getting up for work when it'd be perfectly sensible for us to have a public holiday.

And yeah chavs down here would probably use it as an excuse to burn their rubbish rather than dump it properly (note to chavs: no ...not in a field or a nature reserve -a proper certified dump) and if they want to burn Union Jacks up on top well i'll only be too happy to sell them to them to do so.

[Dublin12]

:D nice one..you been on the sauce today lionel or is the heat getting too you :D

[Lionel Ritchie]

I fcukin' wish. I'm stuck in an office -that's why I want a friggin public holiday.

[Anto McC]

We'll take the holiday and give back our independenece while we're at it

[Partizan]

I'm taking out my bowler hat, sash and inviting Eoghan Harris & Kevin Myers around for a fireside rendition of the sash while scoffing over the jibes of Hugh Leonard & Co. in the Sunday Unionist (Independent).

Seriously why would we want to honour something that is diametrically opposed to the ideals and exact existence of the Irish Republic. Although I would be in favour of celebrating the Glorious Twelfth as a national holiday to accomodate my Protestant brothers & sisters.....................

in a United Ireland. :p

[dcfcsteve]

Interesting comments here from some people who appear to have learnt their scant knowledge of Irish history solely from listening to rebel songs....

The Battle of the Boyne, along with the 3 other major battles on Irish soil at that period (Siege of Derry, Aughrim and Limerick) were major turning points in the political direction of the entire continent of Europe - or, given the time it was, the world. It/they are therefore major historical events, and much much more than any percieved petty Irish squabble.

Whilst both sides of the political divide in the north have twisted the events to suit their own purposes in the years since, there were Catholics and protestant armies from throughout Europe represented on both the Jacobite and Williamite forces. King William both sought and received a blessing from the Pope in advance of the Battle of the Boyne, for feck sake - which in those days counted for a hell of a lot.

But hey - never mind historical accuracy, when we can just reinforce the view of the 12th as being a chance to knock the other side...

I can see no harm in the south acknowledging the major impact upon world affairs that a series of 4 battles on our soil had 300+ years ago. In contrast I can see it do a lot of good - both in relations with the north, and in recognising that there is a section of the Republic's population who still wish to celebrate the 12th of July. Now - I'm not advocating that we have bands of Billy Boy Loyalists in Rangers tops parading up and down O'Connell street singing God Save the Queen and the Sash - which sadly a number of the respondents on here seem unable to see beyond.

There's no reason why the Republic couldn't lead the way in setting a new tone for 12th July celebrations - a much less negative, threatening and more celebratory one than that which has sadly been created in the north. One much more in-tune with the 21st Century. A small example could be the event that Mary McAleese (you know - the northern Irish Catholic President of Ireland...) held today at Aras an Uachtaran. But to refuse to see beyond the current manifestation of the 12th July, as exemplified on the streets of the north today, is to exhibit a severe lack of vision and a complete failure to grasp that the Republic has an opportunity here to not only build bridges, but to take a lot of the sting out of the 12th events up north.

[monutdfc]

I would be in favour of celebrating the Glorious Twelfth as a national holiday

Wouldn't have thought you were into game shooting Partizan...
...the Glorious Twelfth is the 12th of August, first day of the shooting season :)

[Lionel Ritchie]

Interesting comments here from some people who appear to have learnt their scant knowledge of Irish history solely from listening to rebel songs....

The Battle of the Boyne, along with the 3 other major battles on Irish soil at that period (Siege of Derry, Aughrim and Limerick) were major turning points in the political direction of the entire continent of Europe - or, given the time it was, the world. It/they are therefore major historical events, and much much more than any percieved petty Irish squabble.

Whilst both sides of the political divide in the north have twisted the events to suit their own purposes in the years since, there were Catholics and protestant armies from throughout Europe represented on both the Jacobite and Williamite forces. King William both sought and received a blessing from the Pope in advance of the Battle of the Boyne, for feck sake - which in those days counted for a hell of a lot.

But hey - never mind historical accuracy, when we can just reinforce the view of the 12th as being a chance to knock the other side...

I can see no harm in the south acknowledging the major impact upon world affairs that a series of 4 battles on our soil had 300+ years ago. In contrast I can see it do a lot of good - both in relations with the north, and in recognising that there is a section of the Republic's population who still wish to celebrate the 12th of July. Now - I'm not advocating that we have bands of Billy Boy Loyalists in Rangers tops parading up and down O'Connell street singing God Save the Queen and the Sash - which sadly a number of the respondents on here seem unable to see beyond.

There's no reason why the Republic couldn't lead the way in setting a new tone for 12th July celebrations - a much less negative, threatening and more celebratory one than that which has sadly been created in the north. One much more in-tune with the 21st Century. A small example could be the event that Mary McAleese (you know - the northern Irish Catholic President of Ireland...) held today at Aras an Uachtaran. But to refuse to see beyond the current manifestation of the 12th July, as exemplified on the streets of the north today, is to exhibit a severe lack of vision and a complete failure to grasp that the Republic has an opportunity here to not only build bridges, but to take a lot of the sting out of the 12th events up north.

Well I'm just going to shut up and let DCFCSteve do the talking. 100% on the nail.

[Troy.McClure]

Ya mean that the 12th isnt the aniversary of when Rangers won their first league? :eek:

Next thing you'll be telling me that €eltic werent founded on the 17th of March and thats not the real reason we have parades then :rolleyes:

[CollegeTillIDie]

Actually it would be one way of recognising the gay community.... What I hear you ask? King Billy was outed by a Lesbian American Historian some years back.... so the 12th Could be Pink Triangle day Down here! :D

[crc]

I'd be in favour. DCFCSteve has the right idea. I was watching some of the coverage on BBC last night, and outside of the flashpoint areas (and where people were showing off for the cameras) the atmosphere looked like people were just gathering to have a good time and a drink in a field. Rossnowlagh is the best example of this, but also the rural parades like in Fermanagh, there was none of the acrimony or triumphalism that southerners associate with all Orange marches.

Making the 12th a holiday in the south is something we could do to build trust with Protestants / Unionists in the north and the south (yes they do exist), and thus further the cause of a united Ireland.

We should do this as a good-will gesture, and not expect them to do something in return. If north-south relations are nothing but political horse-trading, we will never nurture the sort of common bond that a united country needs. There are lots of foundations for this bond, but it needs to be nurtured - this is a great opertunity for us to be generous, even though it won't cost us much.

[Thunderblaster]

I saw an Apprentice Boys march on Lundy Day in Derry last December and to be honest, you will only get trouble if you look for it. I took a couple of photos and the most intimidating part was the heavy thud of the Lambeg drums shaking the ground. It is actually colourful to watch. People should see these parades for themselves before making comments; the more troublesome parades have their origins in working class or socially deprived areas IMO.