Do or die for Summer Soccer!!!

[harry crumb]

Listening to Radio1 this afternoon, with Aidan Fitzmaurice this weeks guest to speak about the weekend action.

He said that this weeks Euro matches are do or die for the whole Summer Soccer. He says that it hasn't boosted attendences and that the country clubs are giving out.

Do you think Summer Soccer should be a permanent move? Do you agree with his ultimatum?

[chippie0001]

Get rid of summer soccer ASAP. It does help a bit for Europe, no doubt but crowds and that are down. With summer holidays for 2/3 months families and kids are away and its the youth that we need to attrcat and keep for the league to prosper. The atmosphere also suffers as its too bright in a way and the early dark nights lead to a better atmosphere.

[EnDai]

The results in Europe are what we need to improve as a whole league. Reverting back to a winter/spring season would be suicide, you might get an extra 20 people through the gates, but the league will begin to decline drastically. Maybe when we start getting teams into the CL/UEFA every year we could reconsider it, but summer soccer has and will continue to help improve the league as a whole.

[thecorner]

It does help a bit for Europe, no doubt but crowds and that are down.

speak for yourselves :p

[exile]

and that the country clubs are giving out.

with his ultimatum?


what exactly did he say country clubs are giving out about??

[chippie0001]

speak for yourselves :p

Judging by what lennox gives as your crowds they are down, either that or you could never count in the first place, any maybe you still can't. :cool:

[Mr A]

I was a big supporter of summer soccer when it was proposed and brought in but the fact is that crowds at the majority of clubs seem to be down. I also don't think that the standard of football has improved much either, and our media coverage remains as dire as ever. Scrap it I say.

[daniel]

It's not getting rid of summer soccer we need to be worried about, we have to get rid of the EL and the IL, both league have to combine if football on this island is to survive, there are too many teams going into debt and i feel that by having an all ireland league it will attract more fans more media attention and most importantly more revenue for all involved

[ThatGuy]

I was in favour of summer football, I'm not sure how successfull it has been though.

I think that the ideal solution/compromise would be to revert back to the previous "winter" season, though having a brake of about 5 or 6 weeks in December/January, starting the season a couple of weeks earlier (which would benefit the teams in Europe) and finishing a couple of weeks later.

[patsh]

Just when a fair few teams have got skillful players, who can pass and run with the ball and play attractive football, some "country" teams want to go back to mud baths and hoof ball?:rolleyes:
Must be Longford.....:rolleyes:

[ShelsTim]

Media coverage down? How about miles more games shown live then ever before on 4 different channels. How about more prizemoney and sponsership not to mention a whole new cup with huge prizemoney. As well as Glens v Shels on TV, when would that have normlly been done?

Europe only slightly better? First time any Irish club gets past 2 rounds in Europe and two teams do it in one year. Not to mention 0-0 against Depor, the whole catalyst for the increased attention, which was caused by summer soccer.

Maybe crowds are down, but considering the money that will be made up in prizemoney, sponsership, europe and TV deals I think it's a price worth paying for summer soccer. Better pitches too and the standard of football has definitely increased, whether that's due to summer football or not is another question.

[The Dynamo]

It's not getting rid of summer soccer we need to be worried about, we have to get rid of the EL and the IL, both league have to combine if football on this island is to survive, there are too many teams going into debt and i feel that by having an all ireland league it will attract more fans more media attention and most importantly more revenue for all involved

I agree with this, but it could also bring alot of trouble with it, i know i am goin back to this sectarianism mind of things but seriously speaking, could you really see Shamrock Rover Vs Linfield working with the two clubs having a small number of wannabe football hooligans

[Éanna]

No going back IMO. Its better for football, and as things move along, I think crowds will grow again

[crc]

Media coverage down? How about miles more games shown live then ever before on 4 different channels. How about more prizemoney and sponsership not to mention a whole new cup with huge prizemoney. As well as Glens v Shels on TV, when would that have normlly been done?

Europe only slightly better? First time any Irish club gets past 2 rounds in Europe and two teams do it in one year. Not to mention 0-0 against Depor, the whole catalyst for the increased attention, which was caused by summer soccer.

Maybe crowds are down, but considering the money that will be made up in prizemoney, sponsership, europe and TV deals I think it's a price worth paying for summer soccer. Better pitches too and the standard of football has definitely increased, whether that's due to summer football or not is another question.
what he said.
the only thing that could be considered is maybe a summer break of about 2 or 3 weeks, in July / August. This would be at the same time as the European games. It would avoid fixture congestion for the clubs in Europe and mean that those fans that go on holiday would miss less of the season.

:ball: Summer Soccer Stays :ball:

[dcfcsteve]

The problem our league faces is one of image - not of timing.

Even if we held games in people's own back gardens on their birthdays, they still wouldn't watch it.

I think Summer football has broadly been good - as pitches are in better condition and the weather shouldn't be scaring away any fair-weather supporters - but tinkering with the timing of our league is the proverbial rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. It doesn't change anything.....

The people we're trying to attract to our league by tinkerting with timings are the very ones who would bust a gut to go watch a Premiership game even if it was played in the Arctic Circle. That therefore makes it very clear that timing is not our real problem.

What is required are two big things. Firstly - a wholesale change to the league in such a way that will gain genuine notice/interest. An all-island structure is probably the best way to do this. Secondly, we need consistently good results in Europe to build our credibility. I think Summer football is, and will continue to, help in this.

This idea that all we have to do is change the time of our league to overcome our problems is at best niaive. The bottom line is we have an image problem - not a timing issue....

[A face]

Agreed with alot above ..... there is no quick solution to ammend some of the problems with our league. The chopping and changing will do more harm than good.

I definitely think that an all-ireland league is the way to go, it would give 16 quality teams who compete at top level and all the benefits and spin-offs would be brilliant.

But just on the "attendances are down .... its time to change" ..... here is a novel idea ...... clubs who want more crowds and better performances in Europe etc. ..... put in more of an effort, stop blaming summer soccer as the cause of these problems.

Simple question for clubs that want to change ...... Do you advertise and how is it done ?? ....... basic i know, but how many do it to a degree where it'll make change ??

[kevincronin2000]

lads i don't normally attend gaa games but last night there seemed to be a big crowd gathering near my home so i said id fork out €6 to watch the game.
There was over 2000 i rekon at the game between two sides that would not have large populations.

the game was between newtownshandrum v bride rovers. But yet when you see attendances for clubs like Galway and Waterford it would make you wonder why they cant get higher attendances.

[Poor Student]

If Ireland qualify for the WC next year I'd imagine it's going to hit clubs badly unless we take a break. The eL will be further dwarfed by the WC hype. At least some chunk of eL fans if not a good bit will be in Germany. eL matches may even clash with WC games? What do people think about this?

[4tothefloor]

If Ireland qualify for the WC next year I'd imagine it's going to hit clubs badly unless we take a break. The eL will be further dwarfed by the WC hype. At least some chunk of eL fans if not a good bit will be in Germany. eL matches may even clash with WC games? What do people think about this?

Simple really, suspend all games for the month, or for three weeks of the tournament.

[pineapple stu]

speak for yourselves :p
You want to read through the attendances thread before saying that?! ;)

I think summer soccer is the way to go. The improvement in European competition has shown the last couple of seasons (particularly in the InterToto, when it doesn't count... :( ) and I think wlil help again this season. That means more exposure and more prize money, which can only be good for the league.

However, the crowds thing is a problem, especially with the FAI saying last year that July and August were the two worst months for attendances (verified by the threads here). But there are ways to remedy that which I think haven't been taken. The fact that we're playing football here while the Premiership is off should be marketed aggresively to the barstoolers - hasn't been done (last year in particular, no live TV games were shown; this year is a bit better, but not hugely). The clubs aren't helping - some of the pitches this season have been appalling (Cork, Bohs, Waterford on Saturday was fairly bobbly, etc.) and this isn't helping. That's a lack of professionalism on the clubs' part holding us back (shock horror... :rolleyes: ), and things like tihs should be considered before making a hasty jump back to winter soccer.

[Sonic]

Plus there is alot of demand on the PART-TIME players with young families as the one time before with the winter soccer that they had for summer holidays and general family time is disrupted

[patsh]

Plus there is alot of demand on the PART-TIME players with young families as the one time before with the winter soccer that they had for summer holidays and general family time is disrupted
Maybe they could play cup competitions between December and March, Longford would be thrilled with a 4 month season......:p

[Da Real Rover]

Personnally i rathered winter football, it had a better atmosphere to it but if we do go back to it then all the hard work Cork and Shels did last season will be destroyed. Improvement in Europe is the only way forward and the only way to get those barstoolers to games. If we achieve in europe then we can be compared to the English teams and on a par with them, we wont be seen as the local pub team whos only fans are scumbags. If we go back to winter football then we ll be back at status quo and downhill from then on.

[pete]

This is the same old eL discussion. Change to 10 team league but change back before have had time to evaluate. Now people are at the same thing with summer football. People say attendances have not increased but it could be said that no decrease its own kind of success.

Winter football means zero chance of european progression. Setanta will not be interested in live eL in the winter as will have ****** League rugby. In summer football even Bray looks inhabitable - during the winter is like some sort of artic observatory.

Personally i'd swop football in may, june & july & drop december january & february!

Anyone suggesting a summer break is insane.

[sligoman]

I prefer summer soccer because of the better weather and not having to stand out in the pouring rain and cold wind blowing but as someone mentioned earlier I think dark nights does add to the atmosphere and they are missed in my opinion :(

PS. How about setting a poll up on this?

[mypost]

I prefer summer soccer because of the better weather and not having to stand out in the pouring rain and cold wind blowing but as someone mentioned earlier I think dark nights does add to the atmosphere and they are missed in my opinion :(

PS. How about setting a poll up on this?

If you want real night summer games, then they should kick-off later than they currently do, e.g. 9.00. Lbh, how often in this country are floodlights needed for games with 7.45 ko's in June, and July?

[mypost]

Plus there is alot of demand on the PART-TIME players with young families as the one time before with the winter soccer that they had for summer holidays and general family time is disrupted

How many players have families? Most players don't. The ones that do, can take their holidays at Christmas instead.

[Macy]

I think we should seriously look at the overall benefits of summer football if there isn't significant progress in Europe.

I actually find it's harder to get to summer football with more competing distractions rather than less. And to me, there doesn't seem to be any increase in people getting off their bar stools.

If it's not working for the league in general, should we really be having the league based around 3 clubs? European progress is seen as some kind of panacea (as much as any of the other changes that pete used as examples), yet the one club that made significant progress last year hasn't benefitted even medium term, certainly the league hasn't.

Patsh - you're just turning into an extremely boring troll - I don't expect a Cork mod to do anything about a Cork troll though :rolleyes: .

Shels Tim - only shels are seeing the benefit of increased TV coverage. Fook all benefit to the rest of the premier, let alone the rest of the league.

[patsh]

Patsh - you're just turning into an extremely boring troll - I don't expect a Cork mod to do anything about a Cork troll though :rolleyes: .

Get a sense of humour Macy, don't be taking yourself so seriously....:p

[Cosmo]

From a totally selfish point of view, summer football has to stay. Nothing like sitting out in a beer garden on a friday evening on a lovely summers day drinking a nice cool point of bud and then off to the football on a nice summers evening

[pete]

Clubs that have the facilities should be setting up marques or beer tents to avail of the summer weather.

[jorge]

What would the crouds be like if there was'nt summer football?Imo they'd be worse.Lets leave it for the next few years and see what happens.One thing is for sure the quality of the football has improved immensly.Lets hope Cork and Shels can go on a good European run and get even more attention.

[garykelly]

Summer football is grand. Cant just make a decision on it in 2/3 seasons. the success of summer football can be questioned 5/6 seasons into it.

Lets be honest here. if we had winter football, this thread would be advocating summer football. as has been said it's the same old discussion on the eL

In terms of atmosphere. well any team complaining about that never had an atmosphere in the first place. fans arent gonna stop singing suddenly becuase it's bright. Sligo Rovers for example have had no atmosphere in the showgrounds for many years, yet ppl now think there was and that summer football has affected it. We're top of the league so ppl complain about atmosphere. look at derry city, they just havent stop singing cos it's summer. I'm sure its the same for lots of teams, but derry are the only ones i've seen this season (on tv). ppl complaining about this dont even sing themselves.

[pineapple stu]

Let's be honest here - if we had winter football, this thread would be advocating summer football.
Correction. When we had winter football, the threads were advocating summer football.

Anybody who thought summer football was a cure-all for the league is a fool. It's a benefit, but it still needs the work of the clubs and the FAI to take advantage of that benefit. Think that's where we're falling down.

[Macy]

Anybody who thought summer football was a cure-all for the league is a fool. It's a benefit, but it still needs the work of the clubs and the FAI to take advantage of that benefit. Think that's where we're falling down.
Is it any benefit for the majority of clubs though? Anything to do with marketing would be equally applicable for a winter season. I mean, money thrown at advertising may make summer football a success - it could've made winter football a success too for all we know.

Surely sticking with something once you realise it's not working is just as big a problem as not giving changes a chance to work?

[EnDai]

Not working? Inter-toto quarter finals, and QR3 of the CL. How is it not working?! :)

[patsh]

You're a very boring troll at that. Jealous of our cups, playing surface, fantastic grounds, continued success in the EL. You see you guys are full of the "oh great to see little Longford progressing" for a short while - after which you want us to go back down the bottom from whence we climbed. It pi$$e$ you off bigtime that we're still here. Hey - it's not meant to be like this. The upstarts! What are they at?? What, they come to the cross and beat us one nil ? With their third choice keeper ? Whaddya mean we didn't score against them for over two hundred minutes - we play total football like. Sure we're the league champions elect boy :rolleyes:
Hoorah for plucky little Longford!
A little advice.
1. Get a mirror
2. Sit in front of it
3. Repeat your username over and over again until you get it.

:D

[Jerry The Saint]

Media coverage down? How about miles more games shown live then ever before on 4 different channels. How about more prizemoney and sponsership not to mention a whole new cup with huge prizemoney. As well as Glens v Shels on TV, when would that have normlly been done?


No real evidence that the increase in TV is due to summer soccer though. Setanta is a new entrant to the Irish market and has already had a major affect on the other stations. Just look at how TG4 suddenly (and successfully) started showing Wimbledon and the Tour de France. These are events that Setanta would surely have bid on but TG4 (thanks to RTE/taxpayers money) are expanding their offering to try and squeeze the new boys out. This season's TV deal is more a consequence of the new sports broadcasting dynamic than a gap in the summer schedule.

Anyway, Setanta have stepped up their coverage of (Shels) games recently but RTE and, to an extent, TG4 have put their broadcasts on hold until the GAA championships are finished. Don't forget, Setanta viewing figures are typically going to be way below what RTE used to get on the rare live TV occasions.

Summer season actually hinders the growth of the Setanta cup because of the mismatch of the seasons - neither league will agree to too much of an extension because it may cut into their close-season.



Europe only slightly better? First time any Irish club gets past 2 rounds in Europe and two teams do it in one year. Not to mention 0-0 against Depor, the whole catalyst for the increased attention, which was caused by summer soccer.

I'm still not convinced, which is why the upcoming games are so important to the success or otherwise of this experiment. Shelbourne had an exceptional season last year to get to the final qualifying round - given the draw they'll have to raise their game significantly from last year to even match that achievement. Longford and Bohs last year, and Bohs again this year, have had worse results in Europe than on recent occasions during winter/transition seasons.


Maybe crowds are down, but considering the money that will be made up in prizemoney, sponsership, europe and TV deals I think it's a price worth paying for summer soccer.


Shels have gone on record as saying that the best ever run of an Irish team in Europe has not led to the expected increases in sponsorship levels. Failure to match the gate receipts/prizemoney of last year will leave them in deep sh!t, given their increased expenditure.


Better pitches too and the standard of football has definitely increased, whether that's due to summer football or not is another question.
As has been said, some of the pitches have been disgraceful this season. Clubs training on the main pitch, playing U-21 games, ground sharing, lack of adequate groundskeeping have caused problems during the summer era as much as in Autumn to Spring season.

Increased standard of football has more to do with better players in the league now (returning from England/Scotland, heading over later like Doyle/Murphy) and full-time training, IMO.

It's also important to note that fixture congestion has been widespread in recent seasons and, with a little help Ollie, almost scuppered Cork's excellent end-of-season run, as he tried to do with Pats a few seasons before, by enforcing the playing of all games by the final day of the season. Mid-summer break which will probably be needed during World Cup will add further problems.

The playing of the showpiece Cup Final before the end of the season in October and now in December appears to have devalued it in the eyes of the public/bandwagoners from the teams involved (Waterford, look away from the Big Boats, I'm talking to you! :p )

[garykelly]

Correction. When we had winter football, the threads were advocating summer football.

Anybody who thought summer football was a cure-all for the league is a fool. It's a benefit, but it still needs the work of the clubs and the FAI to take advantage of that benefit. Think that's where we're falling down.

Spot on pineapple stu !!!

[pete]

Summer Football Judgement:
Attendances - can't tell if summer football is good for this or not.
Facilities for fans & players - better weather, pitches etc...
Standard of football - much better, dry pitches encourage passing.
TV - more tv but can't tell if summer thing.
Europe - improvement.

[pete]

Such a bitter little man.
And you'll still be VERY pi$$ed off in ten years time when we're still in the premier !!

Cop On (how appropriate name) & patsh - ye need tkae your discussion to PM or elsewhere.

[patsh]

Cop On (how appropriate name) & patsh - ye need tkae your discussion to PM or elsewhere.
Duly noted, Sir.
The appeal of winding up such sensitive souls is losing it's charms! :p

[pineapple stu]

Bohs again this year, have had worse results in Europe than on recent occasions during winter/transition seasons.
That part isn't true. No Irish team won so much as a game in the InterToto before the switch to summer soccer (the last season of winter soccer, Cork lost home and away to a Latvian team). Summer soccer comes along, Pat's beat a Croatian team, Rovers beat a Polish team and Cork beat Swedish and Dutch opposition. Even Bohs' performance this season - winning one match against decent opposition - was better than anything achieved before the switch.

[pineapple stu]

Is it any benefit for the majority of clubs though? Anything to do with marketing would be equally applicable for a winter season. I mean, money thrown at advertising may make summer football a success - it could've made winter football a success too for all we know.

Surely sticking with something once you realise it's not working is just as big a problem as not giving changes a chance to work?
Maybe. To be honest, I think the European results - more so if teams qualify again this season - would go a long way to justifying the switch on their own. Wins in Europe means more money into the league, bigger draws to make the barstoolers sit up (even Hadjuk sold out Tolka and was on TV) and more exposure for the league in general. The teams getting the results are going to benefit most naturally, but I think everyone benefits to a degree.

It does look though as if bugger all research - in particular re crowds - went into the idea. Granted, we don't have previous attendance figures to compare, but crowds seem to be at best the same, the summer months are the worst for crowds and there are plenty of other attractions on.

I don't know that summer soccer's not working though. What would you define as "not working"?

[Rebal Boy]

If crowds are down now for some clubs in the summer, sureley it would be much worse in the winter. Ye are telling me the crowds would improve when the weather is getting wetter & the frezzing cold Friday or Saturday night you have to be joking. IMO Summer Soccer all the way. :)

[Poor Student]

What were the two worst months during the old conventional season times? Would it have been the harshest of the winter?

[Green Force]

Simple really, suspend all games for the month, or for three weeks of the tournament.

Surely the clubs who have bars should be promoting games with cheap gargle in their clubhouses and rolling out the drunken plastics into their stands for league games after the WC games finish up?

[Slash/ED]

The only people disappointed in summer football are the ones who thought it would isntantly solve every problem the league had. It hasn't, but in certain areas it has helped a hell of alot. No question whatsoever it has to stay imo. What the others who said it have said is spot on, poor crowds are down to the lack of marketing and image and many things, not what time of the year it is.

[Macy]

The only people disappointed in summer football are the ones who thought it would isntantly solve every problem the league had. It hasn't, but in certain areas it has helped a hell of alot. No question whatsoever it has to stay imo. What the others who said it have said is spot on, poor crowds are down to the lack of marketing and image and many things, not what time of the year it is.
Crowds are down. I didn't expect it to solve the problems of the league, I didn't expect it to be fookin worse...

[Macy]

Hear, hear. Personally I'm delighted as we've had a lot of problems with our pitch in the past & we haven't had to cancel a game since the changeover to Summer soccer.
:confused: eh, yes we have.... And a dry pitch doesn't necessarily mean a good one....