Rocco Vata M Watford b.2005

[Poor Student]

Starting a thread for Rocco Vata, son of former Celtic right back an ex-Albanian international Rudi Vata. Rudi married a Scottish woman while playing for Celtic and on the basis of her mother, Rocco's grandmother, being born in Ireland he is eligible for ourselves in addition to Scotland, Albania and Montenegro. We seem to have gotten to him first and he's been playing in Ireland's underage setup.

Rocco just turned 15 in April but was already involved in Celtic's U18s last year and has gotten off to a strong start for Celtic's new B team which is playing against senior adult sides in the Scottish Lowland League (equivalent of Conference National in the English Pyramid). Both Celtic and Rangers have had B sides admitted on a pilot basis with teams limited to U20 players who have made less than 5 appearances for the senior team that season. Celtic have taken 7 points from 12 so far so it isn't proving to be a cake walk. The equivalent quality level might be LOI 1st Div or LSL. Notwithstanding the quality it says something about him to be holding his own against adults at barely 15. He's scored two in his last two. One to watch for the future. Hopefully he won't switch allegiances at some point.

[Fixer82]

That all sounds terribly depressing to me.

As much as we've used the granny rule to our advantage, surely we can field a team of Irish-born players going forward

[kennedmc]

Seriously. 'The we've gotten to him first bit' say it all.

I'm not having a go at you Poor Student just why would the FAI bother recruiting 14 year olds from aboard with tenuous links to Ireland?!

I rather they put there time and effort into developing players in Ireland.

[elatedscum]

Seriously. 'The we've gotten to him first bit' say it all.

I'm not having a go at you Poor Student just why would the FAI bother recruiting 14 year olds from aboard with tenuous links to Ireland?!

I rather they put there time and effort into developing players in Ireland.

They can do both. We are assuming a lot. I mean James McCarthy’s grandfather asked him on his deathbed to play for ireland such was his passion for the country. For all we know, Rocco’s grandmother has distilled that sense of irishness into her kids and grandkids. You can’t assume because someone’s a second gen that they don’t have any real links to the country.

He’s clearly not a guy who fell through the cracks, the Scottish and Albanian fa would have been very aware of him - and at this stage, he could represent multiple sides concurrently but he’s only represented ireland. That could change tomorrow - but neither the FAI nor the player have done anything wrong...

Now McGeady for example did play for us over Scotland because we were proactive with him and he was involved with us long before Scotland. As far as I remember, it was Packie Bonner who set it up when McGeady was 13. A few years later, Scotland came calling but he said no. If we had been as proactive with Andy Robertson when he was a young celtic academy player as we were with McGeady, he could be playing for us now...

We should be both developing the best talent here and identifying the best young abroad...

[Poor Student]

Seriously. 'The we've gotten to him first bit' say it all.

I'm not having a go at you Poor Student just why would the FAI bother recruiting 14 year olds from aboard with tenuous links to Ireland?!

I rather they put there time and effort into developing players in Ireland.

I appreciate it's not directed at me and I'm just piecing together small bits I've seen in articles. I can't speak to his Irishness or lack thereof but if you've ever been to places like Coatbridge there's more than a tenuous connection to Ireland with whole communities in parts of Scotland that trace close lineage here and have a strong cultural connection.

[irishfan86]

I agree elatedscum -- there's also the argument that if we field the best team possible, that will promote the game and encourage more kids to play -- better results down the line.

Bottom line though, if his mother feels Irish or the kid has a great relationship with his Irish grandparents -- he should have the right to play for us and we should embrace that. Given his parents are born in other countries, I'd suggest he would have held off for either of them if that's where his heart actually is.

[Olé Olé]

I don't know much about Scottish culture but there are plenty reasons why the lad might identify with Ireland as much as Albania or Scotland. Firstly, he's living in Scotland with an Albanian parent so maybe he doesn't feel all that Scottish. I see a 19 year old young lad called Armando Broja who is a very hot prospect with Chelsea already has 6 Albanian senior caps and was born in England. Maybe he didn't identify all that much as English. There's also the fact that he plays for Celtic- the club of his father and maybe his mother too. Old Firm tribalism may have impacted on his identity too. Not to mention Brexit.

Plenty good quotes in this article regarding time spent in Howth and that "His granny is the happiest Irishwoman in Scotland".
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/4791487/rudi-vata-albania-republic-of-ireland/

Anyway, if this is good enough for Wales then why can't it be good enough for us? Plenty of other countries have produced players good enough for the national side of the country in which they were born but the players opted to play for that of their parents. We should be experiencing the benefits of this too. Plenty lads with Wales and Algeria, Achraf Hakimi, Koulibaly, Higuain, Rakitic (plenty others born in Switzerland playing for Balkan countries), Zaha etc. All different circumstances, I'm sure, but we are due a few falling our way now with a long time (the halcyon days of McCarthy and McGeady seem so long ago since Rice and Grealish).

[Kingdom]

His mother is on twitter fairly regularly and seems to have been pushing it to begin with, and it was pursued by both parties rather than the FAI doing a smash and grab.

[irishfan86]

I know we're all sore after Rice especially but would hate for the kid to read this thread. Players from the diaspora should be welcomed with open arms.

[tetsujin1979]

Ordinarily, we don't start a new thread for a player until they make their senior debut, but Celtic and Rangers' B teams this season are a bit of a grey area - it's senior football, but not with a senior club side, similar to the Premier League 2 sides.
One solution is to rename this thread so it's the 2021/22 U23 thread

[Olé Olé]

His mother is on twitter fairly regularly and seems to have been pushing it to begin with, and it was pursued by both parties rather than the FAI doing a smash and grab.


https://twitter.com/AnnFrancesMurr3

She's great- consistently retweeting the FAI and other Irish player tracker accounts and I see some tweets about how he loves playing for Ireland and Celtic.

[Kingdom]

I know we're all sore after Rice especially but would hate for the kid to read this thread. Players from the diaspora should be welcomed with open arms.

To be fair, there's as much chance of Rudi pushing him down the Albanian route if he progresses/when the time comes, as there is him sticking with us, surely?


https://twitter.com/AnnFrancesMurr3

She's great- consistently retweeting the FAI and other Irish player tracker accounts and I see some tweets about how he loves playing for Ireland and Celtic.
Ah yes! She's a babe!

[Bottle of Tonic]

Always welcome to have another prospect coming through at Celtic!

I hope CSAD doesn't read this thread or else the ambulance better be on standby!

[tetsujin1979]

Ordinarily, we don't start a new thread for a player until they make their senior debut, but Celtic and Rangers' B teams this season are a bit of a grey area - it's senior football, but not with a senior club side, similar to the Premier League 2 sides.
One solution is to rename this thread so it's the 2021/22 U23 thread
Alternative - rename this thread for the Scottish B Teams, to cover updates for Vata and Bosun Lawal at Celtic, and McCann at Rangers

[Poor Student]

On the bench tonight for Celtic v Hibs. CSAD probably having a conniption as I type this hearing sounds of regression.

[Jd2793]

On the bench tonight for Celtic v Hibs. CSAD probably having a conniption as I type this hearing sounds of regression.

easy now or you'll be labelled a celtic fan

[CSAD]

On the bench tonight for Celtic v Hibs. CSAD probably having a conniption as I type this hearing sounds of regression.

I’ll be banned if I give my opinion on why this has happened tonight, you can thank mod
John for this.

[Jd2793]

I’ll be banned if I give my opinion on why this has happened tonight, you can thank mod
John for this.

why has it happened?

[CraftyToePoke]

Go on CSAD, go to your well of wisdom one more time, do it for the fans lad ;)

[tommy_c12000]

Comes on on 84th minute. Not 18 until next April. A long way to go in his development but nice to see him getting senior minutes, he has clearly outgrown highland pub leagues. Will be interesting to see if he stays with ireland, when Scotland and Albania step up their recruitment game

[JR89]

If he had any interest in Scotland they'd likely have been his first choice since he was born and raised there.

[Poor Student]

It seems to be the influence of his mother and grandmother that has him declaring for Ireland. His mam is pretty active as an Ireland fan on social media I think.

[tommy_c12000]

Let’s see how things unfold, nationality is pretty fluid these days, like everything else…

[Jd2793]

id imagine their FA have been long aware of vata, isnt the their PM a celtic fan aswell? ball in firmly in irelands court for this one. all talk is that he impressed the manager over winter break, hopefully he can see some minutes in FA cup over the new year, lets hope for some kind draws so he has a better chance of minutes.

[tommy_c12000]

It seems to be the influence of his mother and grandmother that has him declaring for Ireland. His mam is pretty active as an Ireland fan on social media I think.

Yes she is, but he’s very young. Has plenty of international options. Let’s see what happens

[Jd2793]

is his mother irish or scottish?

[JR89]

id imagine their FA have been long aware of vata, isnt the their PM a celtic fan aswell? ball in firmly in irelands court for this one. all talk is that he impressed the manager over winter break, hopefully he can see some minutes in FA cup over the new year, lets hope for some kind draws so he has a better chance of minutes.

Yes, plus Albanian PM and Rudi Vata are good friends. They're definitely long aware of him and like Zefi and Ferizaj he's probably been asked a few times already to switch.

[Eirambler]

is his mother irish or scottish?

Scottish born, if that's what you mean.

[JR89]

is his mother irish or scottish?

Second generation and his link with us is his grandmother.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

:D This is hilarious given the discussion on the Johnny Kenny thread! Call Vata up to the senior squad as soon as possible. Same with Hodge or any other player in the same boat. They're nowhere near certainties to make it anywhere but we can't afford to take a chance.

[samhaydenjr]

Typical... one of the few times I express an opinion in a mildly hyperbolic manner and it immediately gets disproved

[backstothewall]

We've been down this road enough times already. Should be called up to the next squad and play a part in both games. I don't care if he still has a few milk teeth. If he's good enough he's old enough.

[nigel-harps1954]

We've been down this road enough times already. Should be called up to the next squad and play a part in both games. I don't care if he still has a few milk teeth. If he's good enough he's old enough.

That doesn't tie him to us, so I'm not sure the point in playing a benchwarmer at Celtic in what are a couple of fairly important games for Stephen Kennys future.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

That doesn't tie him to us, so I'm not sure the point in playing a benchwarmer at Celtic in what are a couple of fairly important games for Stephen Kennys future.

Stephen Kenny's future is probably back in the LOI. His time with Ireland is coming to an end, probably just a few more months. Getting players like Vata and Hodge involved is far more important. Maybe they won't turn out as good as we hope but we can't afford to risk it, especially in order to save the job of an incompetent manager.

[elatedscum]

Guarantee if Kenny were to play Hodge and Vata against France, Boom would be the first person critical of the decision. “Trying to use bringing in young players to hide bad results”

[SkStu]

Agree es.

Whatever about Hodge (who I think deserves a proper look), the calls for Vata to be called up to the squad and play a part in the upcoming games are a bit bizarre. A call up to the 21’s is surely the right and best next step for him. He’s either ours or he isn’t at some point but there’s no point in making grand gestures that just won’t have any bearing on his decision and also won’t improve our results.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Guarantee if Kenny were to play Hodge and Vata against France, Boom would be the first person critical of the decision. “Trying to use bringing in young players to hide bad results”

This has nothing to do with Kenny. He's finished. It's time people stopped putting their support for Kenny above the development of our squad and our future. Vata should be called up to the squad, as should Hodge.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Agree es.

Whatever about Hodge (who I think deserves a proper look), the calls for Vata to be called up to the squad and play a part in the upcoming games are a bit bizarre. A call up to the 21’s is surely the right and best next step for him. He’s either ours or he isn’t at some point but there’s no point in making grand gestures that just won’t have any bearing on his decision and also won’t improve our results.

The thing is, if it was a choice between Vata and Hourihane, then why not go with Vata? Same with a any other choice between a player who's had their chance and shown that they're not at this level and young players showing promise.

It might not seem right but players who qualify for other nations need to be prioritised. It's what a country like Wales have done previously. Players may still leave like Rice but we have to give ourselves the best opportunity.

[pineapple stu]

This has nothing to do with Kenny. He's finished. It's time people stopped putting their support for Kenny above the development of our squad and our future. Vata should be called up to the squad, as should Hodge.
No, but it still sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If we're looking at capping a 16-year-old who has played six minutes of senior football in a dead game - when capping him wouldn't even tie him down to us - then we're getting a kind of desperate that I had hoped we could avoid.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

No, but it still sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If we're looking at capping a 16-year-old who has played six minutes of senior football in a dead game - when capping him wouldn't even tie him down to us - then we're getting a kind of desperate that I had hoped we could avoid.

That's where we are! It mightn't have made a difference but looking back now, I would have called Grealish up to the seniors as soon as it was clear there was big talent there. When he was playing for Notts County. I didn't even say cap him, call him up to the squad. Show him we mean business. If they still go on to declare for someone else then so be it.

Again, these types of players should be replacing the older squad members who've shown what they can do or more to the point, what they can't do.

[elatedscum]

Grealish at Notts County was ready for the international team. Vata isn’t anywhere close yet.

Hodge isn’t ready but basically it’s between him, Conor Coventry and (if he got games) Gav Kilkenny for that 4th holding midfield spot which was held by Hourihane. Personally I’d have Hodge in the next squad unless there’s issues we’re unaware of.

Vata is a much more attacking player and much much further from being ready. Andy Moran is currently a better footballer for example. Vata is really really talented but he’s 16 and the 19s or 21s is the limit of where he should be, from a merit perspective.

In the olden days a single cap would sort it and you could argue a justification for it but nowadays I think you need 4 caps to seal the deal, which really changes the dynamics.

[pineapple stu]

Again, these types of players should be replacing the older squad members who've shown what they can do or more to the point, what they can't do.

I don't think Vata is the kind of player who should be replacing older players in the squad though.

Hodge for Hourihane - that's fine. No problems with that, so long as we don't expect him to single-handedly transform our fortunes of course.

But Vata has done nothing to warrant a call-up. I guess I'm a bit wary of comments like "as soon as it was clear there was big talent there" because of the volume of players who posters here have reckoned have had big talent and then dropped away. Grealish achieved a lot more at Notts than Vata has so far.

And if you're not going to cap him, it makes even less sense to give him a call up. Why not bump him up to the 21s? His achievements at club level are noted, and I don't see why he couldn't be thrown in for a 21s game.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Grealish at Notts County was ready for the international team. Vata isn’t anywhere close yet.

Hodge isn’t ready but basically it’s between him, Conor Coventry and (if he got games) Gav Kilkenny for that 4th holding midfield spot which was held by Hourihane. Personally I’d have Hodge in the next squad unless there’s issues we’re unaware of.

Vata is a much more attacking player and much much further from being ready. Andy Moran is currently a better footballer for example. Vata is really really talented but he’s 16 and the 19s or 21s is the limit of where he should be, from a merit perspective.

In the olden days a single cap would sort it and you could argue a justification for it but nowadays I think you need 4 caps to seal the deal, which really changes the dynamics.

Oh I know he's not ready yet but Grealish had no issues playing for us underage, it's when a senior call up was offered, he hit the road. A call up now could push the issue but I take the point I could be overzealous here. I just think we have to push the boat out and not look back in 10 years to a new list of players who could have been playing for us.

I'd go after anyone showing promise, be they in Britain, the North or Lagos. Maybe an u21 call up is correct for Vata for now but if opportunities popped up like a friendly against Malta I'd have him involved, no question.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I don't think Vata is the kind of player who should be replacing older players in the squad though.

Hodge for Hourihane - that's fine. No problems with that, so long as we don't expect him to single-handedly transform our fortunes of course.

But Vata has done nothing to warrant a call-up. I guess I'm a bit wary of comments like "as soon as it was clear there was big talent there" because of the volume of players who posters here have reckoned have had big talent and then dropped away. Grealish achieved a lot more at Notts than Vata has so far.

And if you're not going to cap him, it makes even less sense to give him a call up. Why not bump him up to the 21s? His achievements at club level are noted, and I don't see why he couldn't be thrown in for a 21s game.

Like the post above, I'll accept I get over excited about emerging talent. And now especially if it's anyone from midfield forward. If it was me in charge I'd still call him up but I'm not in charge. Thank the lord says you.

BOOMSHAKALAKA!!!!

[SkStu]

The thing is, if it was a choice between Vata and Hourihane, then why not go with Vata? Same with a any other choice between a player who's had their chance and shown that they're not at this level and young players showing promise.

It might not seem right but players who qualify for other nations need to be prioritised. It's what a country like Wales have done previously. Players may still leave like Rice but we have to give ourselves the best opportunity.

I’m generally in favour of bringing through youth early but it has to make some sense. You’re talking about calling up a Celtic B player who has 8 minutes of senior football. The players that Wales brought through early were at a completely different level.

Vata has a long way to go to be automatically ahead of Hourihane in any scenario…and they are not like for like to the best of my knowledge.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I’m generally in favour of bringing through youth early but it has to make some sense. You’re talking about calling up a Celtic B player who has 8 minutes of senior football. The players that Wales brought through early were at a completely different level.

Vata has a long way to go to be automatically ahead of Hourihane in any scenario…and they are not like for like to the best of my knowledge.

I don't think they were at a completely different level. Ethan Ampadu for example. He was 16 when Wales called him up. He had played a few games in league 2 and afterwards signed for Chelsea. He qualified for us and England but Wales were proactive and got their man. We need to take a lead from their book.

I was just using Hourihane as an example of a squad member who more than likely won't be seeing game time at his stage.

[tetsujin1979]

Proactive and kept their player. I don't think he had any interest in playing for us.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

He played for England u16's. I think that would have been the main worry. It's not a guarantee as we know all too well but promoting them early gives you the best chance of holding on to them.

[SkStu]

Ampadu was never really seen as a flight risk for Wales. Thought you were more talking about players like Neco Williams and Brennan Johnson who were definitely a fair distance ahead of where Vata is now when they were called up.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Ampadu was never really seen as a flight risk for Wales. Thought you were more talking about players like Neco Williams and Brennan Johnson who were definitely a fair distance ahead of where Vata is now when they were called up.

Ampadu played for England u16's. I think Wales called him up to the senior squad before he got a move to Chelsea. People would have said Rice wasn't a flight risk until he was. Ampadu and Vata would be in similar positions choice wise at the same age.