Pre-Season 2021-22

[elatedscum]

Derrick Williams is definitely an option at left back. Seems to be getting his game for LA Galaxy at centre half but equally comfortable at left-back

[tetsujin1979]

unlikely to be given permission to travel from the US though

[samhaydenjr]

Based on tonight's performance, I'm going to add Louie Watson as one who could play himself into consideration for the Oman game

[CSAD]

Based on tonight's performance, I'm going to add Louie Watson as one who could play himself into consideration for the Oman game

Oman?

[Olé Olé]

Ah yeah, there has to be an Oman friendly coming up...

[Kingdom]

While it's not his pre-season, in the context of his peers who are in pre-season, where does Elbouzedi stand in relation to the upcoming squads?

Has started the last two games, having been introduced as a sub in the previous two after signing, into an-inform AIK side that are near the top of the Swedish league.
In context, his teammates are internationals with Kosovo, Finland, Ghana, while Nordfeldt is a current Swedish international, Larsson & Lustig only recently retired, Bahoui, Papagiannopoulos & Milosevic all former Swedish internationals, and Hussein a current under 21 international for Sweden.

[Olé Olé]

While it's not his pre-season, in the context of his peers who are in pre-season, where does Elbouzedi stand in relation to the upcoming squads?

Has started the last two games, having been introduced as a sub in the previous two after signing, into an-inform AIK side that are near the top of the Swedish league.
In context, his teammates are internationals with Kosovo, Finland, Ghana, while Nordfeldt is a current Swedish international, Larsson & Lustig only recently retired, Bahoui, Papagiannopoulos & Milosevic all former Swedish internationals, and Hussein a current under 21 international for Sweden.

I'm sure there is a school of thought which would say "he couldn't do it for Bolton or Lincoln and it's only Sweden.." but I think you've provided fairly clear evidence of other international sides that are willing to pick from that league and team. I think that demonstrates a lot. The black and white merchants that might subscribe to the school of thought I set out there might ignore the difference in styles between leagues and the fact that Elbouzedi demonstrated that he had a bit about him at an international level before for our under 21 side.

I would highlight also that he's playing on the right win, a position that you correctly identified as being a problem area for us. Further, he has served Kenny well. There's every chance he gets a call up and I think that it would be great example to set to some of our other players. Where would Ronan Curtis be now if he had moved to Ostersunds when he had the opportunity- League One? Horgan is in League One now and does he remain an option for Kenny? It's not ideal.

[ifk101]

The most recent game was a derby game - so starting that signals a vote of confidence in Elbouzedi. That said, he has been a bit invisible (still finding his feet?) and his end product so far has been a bit off. Kenny obviously knows him and given what we have called up in recent squads, he could be in the reckoning. But I don't think he's a senior international at this time.

[Kingdom]

I'm wondering if this is a fair appraisal of the squad options right now?
1- absolute first-choice,
2- option/backup,
3- squad filler/worth considering(or whatever terminology you're having yourself).
4- youth player stepping up/development/

It's not who I think kenny will select, or how he would rank them, but how we might rank them. I make no distinction between full-back or Wing-back,

Keepers:
1- Randolph
2- Kelleher,
3- Pym,
4- Travers, Bazunu

RB:
1- Coleman,
2- Doherty,
3- McNamara
4- O'Connor

LB:
1- Stevens,
2- Manning,
3- Cunningham, Williams, Bagan

CB:
1-
2- O'Shea, Egan, Clark, Duffy
3- Long, Dunne,
4- Omobamidele, Collins, McGuinness,

CM (6/8/10):
1-
2- Cullen, Knight, Hendrick,
3- McCarthy, Browne, Molumby, Byrne, Kilkenny, Taylor, Szmodics, McGrath
4- Coventry, Gilbert, Johansson, Noss, Finn

RW:
1- Robinson,
2- O'Dowda, Horgan,
3- Elbouzedi, Sadlier, Burke,
4- Ebosele

LW:
1- Connolly,
2- McClean,
3- Curtis, Ogbene, Wright

CF:
1- Robinson, Connolly,
2- Long, Collins, Parrot, Idah,
3- Obafemi,
4- Kayode, Okoflex, Odubeko

There is some overlap, particularly in the wing forward positions, as Robinson and Connolly have both been selected there at times, even though they are probably seen as more of floaters from the middle rather than out and out wingers. I've not included Robbie Brady, because frankly I think it would be a slap in the face to every member of the squad not selected to pick someone without a club. Nothing to do with loyalty, it would be a stupid decision.

I haven't considered any of the League of Ireland players apart from Burke. Tyreke Wilson has shown some really good moments for Bohs, but unfortunately for him Anto Breslin has also been very good - one is likely to want to leave to get regular first team ball - which should be good for us (it's a weak position without doubt). Andy Lyons has been really impressive at times, but not sure he'll ever likely come into the conversation. Dawson Devoy and Ross Tierney will be on 21s duty, that's the best to hope for now. Interesting to see if rovers make the conference group stage and acquit themselves well, would someone like Towell jump up the queue, nevermind Liam Scales.

[Eirambler]

It's great that he's getting game time in Sweden and everything but I have to be honest and say that, based on what I've seen of him to date, I can't see Elbouzedi ever winning more than a small handful of senior caps for Ireland at the very most. I just don't think he's good enough.

The other thing is that if we are playing 3-5-2 the right wing position is no longer a problem for us and we have plenty of options at right wing back. If we are planning to go back to 4-3-3, after all we have seen using this formation in the last year, I don't really know what else there is to say other than the manager is so far out of his depth that there's not much point commenting further until such time as he's finally put out of his misery at this level, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'm wondering if this is a fair appraisal of the squad options right now?
1- absolute first-choice,
2- option/backup,
3- squad filler/worth considering(or whatever terminology you're having yourself).
4- youth player stepping up/development/

It's not who I think kenny will select, or how he would rank them, but how we might rank them. I make no distinction between full-back or Wing-back,

Keepers:
1- Randolph
2- Kelleher,
3- Pym,
4- Travers, Bazunu

RB:
1- Coleman,
2- Doherty,
3- Shaughnessy
4- O'Connor

LB:
1- Stevens,
2- Manning,
3- Cunningham, Williams, Bagan

CB:
1-
2- O'Shea, Egan, Clark, Duffy
3- Long, Dunne,
4- Omobamidele, Collins, McGuinness,

CM (6/8/10):
1-
2- Cullen, Knight, Hendrick,
3- McCarthy, Browne, Molumby, Byrne, Kilkenny, Taylor, Szmodics, McGrath
4- Coventry, Gilbert, Johansson, Noss, Finn

RW:
1- Robinson,
2- O'Dowda, Horgan,
3- Elbouzedi, Sadlier, Burke,
4- Ebosele

LW:
1- Connolly,
2- McClean,
3- Curtis, Ogbene, Wright

CF:
1- Robinson, Connolly,
2- Long, Collins, Parrot, Idah,
3- Obafemi,
4- Kayode, Okoflex, Odubeko

There is some overlap, particularly in the wing forward positions, as Robinson and Connolly have both been selected there at times, even though they are probably seen as more of floaters from the middle rather than out and out wingers. I've not included Robbie Brady, because frankly I think it would be a slap in the face to every member of the squad not selected to pick someone without a club. Nothing to do with loyalty, it would be a stupid decision.

I haven't considered any of the League of Ireland players apart from Burke. Tyreke Wilson has shown some really good moments for Bohs, but unfortunately for him Anto Breslin has also been very good - one is likely to want to leave to get regular first team ball - which should be good for us (it's a weak position without doubt). Andy Lyons has been really impressive at times, but not sure he'll ever likely come into the conversation. Dawson Devoy and Ross Tierney will be on 21s duty, that's the best to hope for now. Interesting to see if rovers make the conference group stage and acquit themselves well, would someone like Towell jump up the queue, nevermind Liam Scales.


Its a bit like having to pick which one of your friends is going to nab your missus isn't it.
Ideally none of them.
Low tide on talent of an international standard lads, without doubt.

Kingers, any reason McNamara at Millwall isn't there, over maybe O'Connor / Shaughnessy / Bagan / Williams types, I think he can play either side but is right footed and has actually declared for us, unlike Bagan.

[Kingdom]

Crafty, thank you! It was McNamara I meant, not shaughnessy!
What an Idiot!

[CraftyToePoke]

Crafty, thank you! It was McNamara I meant, not shaughnessy!
What an Idiot!

So does Shaugnessy even exist ?
The rascal.

[tetsujin1979]

What about any of the Dundalk, Bohs, or Shamrock Rovers players? Does their current form in European competition, and history with Kenny in some cases, count towards a call up?

[pineapple stu]

So does Shaugnessy even exist ?
The rascal.
Was he thinking of the Finnish fella maybe?

[nigel-harps1954]

Liam Scales seems to be excelling at the left wing back role for Shamrock Rovers, on the cusp of a big money move, and experienced at under-21 level. Could certainly be worth a shout in a problem position.

Georgie Kelly in super form for Bohs, wouldn't be a dreadful shout for a striker in the squad, considering the lack of goals for us too.

Other than that, I'm not sure there's anything better than what we have available currently.

[pineapple stu]

What about any of the Bohs or Shamrock Rovers players? Does their current form in European competition, and history with Kenny in some cases, count towards a call up?
Really hard to judge that - Jack Byrne deserved his call-up, but probably also deserved to be a squad player. Some nice touches, couple of assists, but also got Hendrick sent off in Wales (was it?) with a hospital pass.

I don't think Rovers/Bohs have anyone at Byrne's level currently. So it comes down to how stuck the senior team are.

Georgie Kelly at a push? Top scorer in the LoI with 16 goals this season, including 4 in Europe. Played under Kenny at Dundalk (mostly off the bench though). And we're really stuck up front. You could maybe make a case for James Talbot on the same basis (Rovers' keeper is an NI international of course)

I don't think either would add anything particular to the squad, but they could be used to pad out numbers in certain areas.

[Kingdom]

It's great that he's getting game time in Sweden and everything but I have to be honest and say that, based on what I've seen of him to date, I can't see Elbouzedi ever winning more than a small handful of senior caps for Ireland at the very most. I just don't think he's good enough.

I don't disagree with anything you're written there. I think a year or three there, getting consistent gametime (hopefully) alongside European players, and with the possibility of European football next season, could do him the world of good. I've only seen him for the underage sides, and some snippets for AIK. I've liked what I've seen, but wouldn't be holding out for him to be a great white hope or anything.
if McClean isn't getting gametime, Curtis continues to not impose himself in the chances he gets, and Horgan is considered an impact, surely it's imperative the manager considers as many options as possible. Elbouzedi will possibly fall into that catagory. Who knows, maybe Tyriek Wright or Will Ferry end up having a breakout season, and totally jump the queue?


The other thing is that if we are playing 3-5-2 the right wing position is no longer a problem for us and we have plenty of options at right wing back. If we are planning to go back to 4-3-3, after all we have seen using this formation in the last year, I don't really know what else there is to say other than the manager is so far out of his depth that there's not much point commenting further until such time as he's finally put out of his misery at this level, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I'm purposely not getting into a discussion on the manager, but a 343 with O'Shea and Coleman flanking a stopper is a lot different to a 352 in how it might be set up, and would utilise wingers.
Teams develop, players lose form, players gain form. football changes. one of the reasons we're in the current situation is not trying formations, nevermind developing formations.

[Kingdom]

So does Shaugnessy even exist ?
The rascal.
he does, but I wasn't thinking of him, I had meant Danny McNamara. Shaughnessy plays for Goodwin at St Mirren.


What about any of the Bohs or Shamrock Rovers players? Does their current form in European competition, and history with Kenny in some cases, count towards a call up?
I think it probably will, certainly if appearances for squad players are in short supply this season - made a reference to that at the bottom of the post.


Liam Scales seems to be excelling at the left wing back role for Shamrock Rovers, on the cusp of a big money move, and experienced at under-21 level. Could certainly be worth a shout in a problem position.
Georgie Kelly in super form for Bohs, wouldn't be a dreadful shout for a striker in the squad, considering the lack of goals for us too.

I've discussed Kelly with Skstu recently. I think calls for a call-up for Georgie Kelly are crazy. He's scoring goals sure, and in the European games his workrate has been phenomenal when the opposition have the ball, but his link-up play is atrocious, second touch is a tackle, and for a big guy he hasn't held the ball up particularly well. I wouldn't be in favour of it at all to be honest.

Scales is a different story though. I've only seen bits of him, and couldn't really care less about the Celtic move as I don't think it's the move everyone makes it out to be, but there's no doubt he has quality, his touch is excellent and he appears to be a heads-up footballer, as well as an absolute athlete. We're missing players of his size in the team as well.


Byrne analysis & Talbot consideration

Fair appraisal on Byrne, but at the time I thought Hendrick could have reacted better, instead of doing what all irish midfielders of the past 15 years seem to do and wait for the ball to come to them. But we can disagree; agree that there's more scope for considering Talbot, but I wouldn't be totally comfortable with that. He makes some exceptional saves, but some of his decision-making, well, PStu might call it Bazunuesque....

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I agree I wouldn't be particularly expecting Kelly or Talbot to shake things up particularly. But beggars can't be choosers at this stage.

If we're bringing on Kelly to chase a 3-0 deficit in Lisbon while Ronaldo is still hardly breaking a sweat at the other end chasing his record, then we're definitely in trouble!

[SkStu]

Yeah, I agree I wouldn't be particularly expecting Kelly or Talbot to shake things up particularly. But beggars can't be choosers at this stage.

If we're bringing on Kelly to chase a 3-0 deficit in Lisbon while Ronaldo is still hardly breaking a sweat at the other end chasing his record, then we're definitely in trouble!

Kingers and I are in full agreement on the merits of Kelly (though i wouldnt be quite so harsh regarding his hold up play - he has gotten a lot better as the season has gone on in that regard) but you raise an interesting comment. Playing Kelly would be in the realm of a Crowe/Sammon (one for each of us there LOL) type cap. Not good enough but if desperate wouldn't be the worst thing to consider. Not sure we are desperate yet.

[elatedscum]

Your a patriot, but a crazy one! Pukki is a far better player

On today’s showing I’m not so sure. I know it was against Liverpool but Pukki was dreadful, spent the game in Van Dijk’s pocket. When Idah came on, he linked up pretty well. Long season ahead...

[SkStu]

I agree that Idah impressed during his fairly brief cameo. He has learned how to use his body and got the better of VVD a couple of times and his decision making was better. Less naivety with the ball and linked up well with midfielders. Could have had a goal too in a goalmouth scramble, just couldn’t get a decent connection..

[Kingdom]

Had a quick look for an update on John Patrick (Finn) there. Not listed as part of Getafe's senior squad, or their B squad, but listed as part of the main youth team. It appears to be a 'current' profile too.
Hadn't heard a mention of him during pre-season, and he wasn't part of their squad on friday against Valencia.
Interesting to see how he gets on this year.

[liamoo11]

Had a quick look for an update on John Patrick (Finn) there. Not listed as part of Getafe's senior squad, or their B squad, but listed as part of the main youth team. It appears to be a 'current' profile too.
Hadn't heard a mention of him during pre-season, and he wasn't part of their squad on friday against Valencia.
Interesting to see how he gets on this year.

It's been great to see him and gilsenan get to this stage of having professional deals given the hype about them when they were 7 or 8 at Barca and madrid. Obviously still might never make it but I imagine they have already out performed the vast majority of their for.er 8 year old team mates in Barca and madrid