Euro 2020(1) megathread

[John83]

Amused by a Financial Times article I saw linked elsewhere (paywall), on fears that England's players/management could be a problem for the Tory government if they win the tournament:
I think it's necessary to treat articles like that as little more than institutionalised trolling. If someone made that argument on a forum, I'd be adding them to my ignore list. I find that helps tune out some of the noise.

I've heard a couple of people call tonight the "real final", which I think is a little disrespectful to England and Denmark, both of whom are close to Italy and Spain in results, whatever about polish. Two decent pairings left, however tomorrow night goes. I'm not a betting man, but I think Denmark's current tournament odds of 9/1 are a little long.

[NeverFeltBetter]

What a free kick.

I was just thinking that I'd love to see England go behind, just to see what they are really made of. About to find out! For the record I do think they've grown a bit since they collapsed after going behind three years ago in their last semi-final, so I still expect them to win.

[pineapple stu]

And we've found out. Game on. Denmark shading it on balance - first time England have played a team in form this tournament. They've improved since equalising though

[NeverFeltBetter]

Good game. If Denmark had held to half-time I might have more confidence in them taking the tie, just because the narrative of things collapsing for England would have been so obvious (if England are losing late on, that crowd's going to get ugly). As it is I think England will come out for the second half happier and I'd still back them to win. Denmark remain so impressive though, considering the circumstances.

[pineapple stu]

Half-time's come at a good time for Denmark though. Interesting second half ahead.

[the 12 th man]

Some dive...

[NeverFeltBetter]

Marginal contact at best, 90% simulation. I'd love to read reports from VAR on these exact incidents, to understand the interpretation of the foul.

England are good alright, but have had the enormous benefit of playing three very beatable opponents in each of their knock-out games. Denmark were the best and looked out of energy and ideas around 70 minutes in. There are times when they appear very loose, especially when opponents are running at them after a turnover in midfield, or such was my perception: Denmark had a man advantage in such situation at least twice last night, but failed to make the right pass to make it count. I don't think Italy will be intimidated at all. I would say it' s a toss-up, but home advantage tips it England's way. If Italy could neutralise Sterling and put Walker under more pressure than other teams have been able to, it would go the other way.

It's the oldest story in football, but you have to say as well that England's goalie is a disaster waiting to happen. Thought Pickford was sub-par yesterday and other teams would have been more punishing.

[pineapple stu]

Very disappointing conclusion. The penalty was soft at best - and in a way, had it been better struck, Schmeichel would have saved it, but because it wasn't right in the corner, he dived past the ball and didn't have the natural angle to parry it to one side. England were the better team and probably would have won anyway - but not like that.

But then - against a side out on their feet and actually down to ten men through injury - Southgate decides to take off Grealish, who he'd brought on only 30 minutes earlier, and put on a full-back. Shutting up shop in those circumstances was a ridiculous decision.

You have to acknowledge that Southgate has England far more resilient than they used to be. And you can't argue with the results, even if in the Euros and the World Cup he ended up on the right side of very lop-sided draws. Of the world's top ten, 2018 had Portugal, France, Argentina, Brazil and Belgium all on one side of the draw, while England's half only had Spain and Colombia, and Spain were surprisingly knocked out early; 2020 had Belgium, Portugal, France, Spain and Italy all on one side, while England had Holland (surprisingly knocked out early) and Denmark.

So he's done well and had luck along the way. But he's so defensive that it's hard to actually like him.

[CraftyToePoke]

Predictions for the final anyone ?

I'll go - Italy 1 0 England

A soft, late penalty which VAR fails to overturn, in off Pickfords arse via a post, would do grand with close ups aplenty of Rice & Grealish to end the weekend. This isn't a base anti English thing so much as a karma do your thing thing.

[SkStu]

I’ll sign up for that Crafty.

I’ve been saying since the quarters-ish that Italy were the team best placed to stop them. Streetwise, tough, been there done that.

On another note reading the comments by Coveney and Martin make me want to puke. Bellends.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, Italy are a step up on what England have faced before, and they struggled against Denmark - the only other side to actually come out and play against them - for 40 minutes before starting to get on top (and then Denmark tired...and even then they needed a dodgy penalty)

Even with home advantage, I'm not sure England have shown enough to indicate they can take the game to Italy, who've been consistently great this tournament. I'm sure that'll bite me in 11 hours' time, but Italy favourites for me.

[John83]

I have Italy as marginal favourites too, but only marginal. They've lost a major creative force in Spinazzola. I think they'll be on top for large chunks of the game, but England won't be easy to score against and will be dangerous on the break and from set pieces. England also have the attackers to go for it if they have to, though it'll take an Italy lead for Southgate to consider it.

Anyway, I'll be wielding a tricolour as usual.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Im watching the final two mediocre teams. Dont know how the Republic cant compete with them. Ditto this, Rice is still a turncoat betrayer. Ireland dont need superstars just the correct formation and strategy

[Bielsa´s irish]

What england did well was as it is shown. Hard to attack because they defend with 5 and use two holding midfielders, with that they leave 3 guys to roam around in attack playing as we call in footsala ( las 3 calles) the 3 lanes. They cant score much but they are assuring they wont concede goals. Thats Southgate strategy a la cattenaccio. The 3 lions cattenaccio

[pineapple stu]

First-minute goal for England is about the worst thing that could have happened this game

[NeverFeltBetter]

Yeah, miserable contest so far. I know finals tend to be dull, but this is 2010 level.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Everything was set up and organize for England to deliver the Eurocopa to them. Every detail. An unfair competición.

[osarusan]

England needlessly invited all that pressure on themselves and paid the price for it.

[pineapple stu]

That's their sole game plan it seems. Always risky, but if anyone can play against it, it's the Italians. They invented it

[NeverFeltBetter]

Predictions for the final anyone ?

I'll go - Italy 1 0 England

A soft, late penalty which VAR fails to overturn, in off Pickfords arse via a post, would do grand with close ups aplenty of Rice & Grealish to end the weekend. This isn't a base anti English thing so much as a karma do your thing thing.

Just saw him near tears, so there you go!

How was the 19 year old allowed to take the crucial kick?

[osarusan]

Pleased for Italy, pleased that Southgate's relentless negativity wasn't rewarded to the full.

Cruel on lads like Sancho and Saka to be taking those last penalties. Yes, they're attackers, but experience is just as valuable, and there were plenty of players with experience elsewhere on the team.

[CraftyToePoke]

Predictions for the final anyone ?

I'll go - Italy 1 0 England

A soft, late penalty which VAR fails to overturn, in off Pickfords arse via a post, would do grand with close ups aplenty of Rice & Grealish to end the weekend. This isn't a base anti English thing so much as a karma do your thing thing.

I'll take what happened over this every day.

[CraftyToePoke]

Just saw him near tears, so there you go!

How was the 19 year old allowed to take the crucial kick?

Saw it too. His lip wobbling away.
Some Sunday evenings just get better and better.

On the 19 year old with a handful of caps matter, well the experienced players who watched him walk up to it might want to have a chat with Southgate, who said he picked the kickers. They probably won't though.

Also both players he brought on cold late on to take kicks missed.

The side who played the better football won tonight and deserved to inside the 90 in my opinion. England lost to the first decent team they met in the knockout stages, again, it just happened to be a final.

Too harsh ?

[Kingdom]

Not harsh, accurate.
There’s two type of tournament winners - the ones who win beating teams they would expect to, regardless of how close the tie might be pitched (Spain 08/12; France 00; Netherlands 88) and those who exceed expectations and Win against the odds - England weren’t either. Simple.

[seanfhear]

Italy had 66% possession over the entire game. You’d need a great counter attack game to expect to win that in normal / all playing time.

With the early goal had Southgate not been so defensive perhaps England could have got another and made it really hard for the Italians, but it was not to be.

[Fixer82]

Im watching the final two mediocre teams. Dont know how the Republic cant compete with them. Ditto this, Rice is still a turncoat betrayer. Ireland dont need superstars just the correct formation and strategy

I actually noticed that a lot of Italy's passing, in particular in the first half, resembled Ireland's passing where a player often had to check a run or go back to get the pass. Was a poor final and Italy would've been beaten by 2006 Italy or by 2016 Portugal or France

[paul_oshea]

England would have beaten Italy had Southgate not been so negative. It will be his undoing yet. The media will turn on him. Unless of course he bores the English to a world cup final :D

[seanfhear]

England would have beaten Italy had Southgate not been so negative. It will be his undoing yet. The media will turn on him. Unless of course he bores the English to a world cup final :D
Southgate was out managed in pretty much every facet of the game yesterday. Over the entire game Italy had 66% possession = = Unbelievable figure at that level of football. It really showed that Southgate has no Club track record to justify him being England manager.

[Trequartista20]

England were horribly negative throughout the tournament. It might be excusable for the likes of Ireland to take on that level of risk-averse pragmatism, but the English actually have some decent attacking options available to them.

Justice was served when the Italians won. They were the competition's best team.

[seanfhear]

England were horribly negative throughout the tournament. It might be excusable for the likes of Ireland to take on that level of risk-averse pragmatism, but the English actually have some decent attacking options available to them.

Justice was served when the Italians won. They were the competition's best team.
True but the Spanish gave them a hell of a game and were the better team in that particular game. Southgate went Rabbit in the headlights yesterday.

Around 20 minutes Jorginho had an injury ( maybe even a tactical injury ) ~ The Italians adjusted their game and were in charge of the game for nearly all of it after that. Southgate was out of his debt at that level. He just didn’t have the know how / confidence / whatever, to counter react. Not even at half time.

[EalingGreen]

Southgate was out managed in pretty much every facet of the game yesterday. Not entirely - his reversion to 3 at the back and selection of WB's took Mancini by surprise, which is precisely how England scored and why they went on to dominate the first 25 minutes.

And if Mancini's re-jig regained the initiative and forced England to defend, fact is, their equaliser still depended on Pickford's push onto the post rebounding back into the path of Bonucci, when it might have rebounded anywhere.


Italy had 66% possession = = Unbelievable figure at that level of football.
In their semi-final, Spain had 70% possession against them, yet Italy got to Penalties, just like England did last night.


It really showed that Southgate has no Club track record to justify him being England manager.Er, club record or no, in three years he has taken them from being a shambles with no discernable identity and rock-bottom morale, to a team which can give anyone a game. Moreover, he's done so with an extremely young team, which has the potential to improve further.

None of which is to say that Italy weren't the better side or didn't deserve to win - they patently were and did. And yes, Mancini outfoxed Southgate - just like he's done to just about every other manager in a 34 game unbeaten run.

But anyone expecting (hoping?) that last night represented the "high water mark" for England under Southgate could be in for a surprise over the next few years (imho).

[EalingGreen]

England would have beaten Italy had Southgate not been so negative. It will be his undoing yet.Possibly.

Maybe he takes his cue from the manager who said this?

"I like 1–0 wins. When you don't concede a goal and you have players like Edin Džeko, Carlos Tevez or David Silva, you win 90%. I prefer we are boring for two to three matches and we win 1–0. If you watch teams that won titles, they conceded very few goals."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/feb/04/roberto-mancini-manchester-city

[seanfhear]

Not entirely - his reversion to 3 at the back and selection of WB's took Mancini by surprise, which is precisely how England scored and why they went on to dominate the first 25 minutes.

And if Mancini's re-jig regained the initiative and forced England to defend, fact is, their equaliser still depended on Pickford's push onto the post rebounding back into the path of Bonucci, when it might have rebounded anywhere.


In their semi-final, Spain had 70% possession against them, yet Italy got to Penalties, just like England did last night.

Er, club record or no, in three years he has taken them from being a shambles with no discernable identity and rock-bottom morale, to a team which can give anyone a game. Moreover, he's done so with an extremely young team, which has the potential to improve further.

None of which is to say that Italy weren't the better side or didn't deserve to win - they patently were and did. And yes, Mancini outfoxed Southgate - just like he's done to just about every other manager in a 34 game unbeaten run.

But anyone expecting (hoping?) that last night represented the "high water mark" for England under Southgate could be in for a surprise over the next few years (imho).
Re; England ~ When you are bringing on Jordan Henderson in comparison to the Italian Substitute Midfielders ~ Perhaps you don’t want to be getting carried away about the English midfield. Perhaps Rice can improve his all round game / attacking game.

Re ; The England Goalkeeper situation ~ Pickford is a bit of a strange cookie for a goalkeeper ~ Usually you like to have your goalkeeper calming things down but Pickford does the opposite ~ Having said that he had good tournament overall but he does strike you as a fella that could combust on a bad day !

Re; Southgate in the two biggest games of his England career so far was out managed by the Croatian Manager and Mancini ~ Overwhelmingly by Mancini, He had from about 20 minutes into the first half to come up with some tactics to nullify Mancini’s changes, He came up with nothing.

Re; The World Cup, I think its pretty safe to say that there are at least two other very good teams in Europe i.e. Italy and Spain both probably better than England. It will be interesting how the fall out from the pretty bad performance in the final i.e. only 34% possession and the penalty self destruct plays out.

Re; Grealish ~ Has Southgate actually given Grealish enough game time over the last few years ? Grealish can be creative and is a magnet for getting frees and frees around the box at that. Did Southgate’s management fail to manage Grealish re; England.

England certainly need to find a few midfielders that can come on or even be in the team. Calvin-Philips must have a mighty engine when you consider how much he played and was hardly ever taken off. Lucky to have a player with that sort of sticking power but I suppose he could do with a little more creativity as well.

Sterling went missing quite a bit in the final while having a very good tournament overall. The final was a bit more like his England career overall. Kane was bit hit and miss which is what Kane has been like at Finals for England.

Trippier is great at set pieces and a good attacking wingback / fullback. Southgate took the option to take off Trippier rather than Kyle Walker ~ The more defensive option but there is some talk that Trippier may be nursing a strain / injury.

Southgate is naturally drawn to defensive security over attacking. After the early goal in the final , did this cost England ?

Re; Being defensive and there-fore more likely ending up in a penalty shootout ~ I think I heard the ITV Commentator say that before this penalty shoot out that Donnarumma had been involved in 5 penalty shoot outs and won all five = Might have been better to be some what more attacking than trying to take him on in a penalty shootout if that was the case.

[pineapple stu]

England would have beaten Italy had Southgate not been so negative. It will be his undoing yet. The media will turn on him.
It's a valid point alright. That style of play is grand when you're winning, but get knocked out in the second round by Spain and the questions start.

On the possession stat (not paul's point I know), I don't think 34% possession is a worrying stat. A lot of teams aim to soak up pressure and hit on quick counters - they can be very effective with low possession. (I saw at one stage it dipped to 21% - I didn't see if that was last five minutes or something like that, but 21% is low)

[the 12 th man]

Southgate had some extended squad to pick from with players on the bench that would have started in most other national sides.

His inherent trait of defensive football is at complete odds with the way most of his players play week in week out and stifled what could have been a great final for them.


Bizarre substitutions as well with a clearly not fully match fit Henderson getting on before more suitable players because of the gaffers negative kill the game attitude and blind loyalty to certain players.

[seanfhear]

Maybe not the best idea to be more likely, heading to a penalty shootout against this guy by, playing too defensively. I assume Southgate was aware of this guys record in penalty shoot-outs ! !

https://showsport.me/football/gianluigi-donnarumma-uefa-euro-team-italy-22969611

[the 12 th man]

Maybe not the best idea to be more likely, heading to a penalty shootout against this guy by, playing too defensively. I assume Southgate was aware of this guys record in penalty shoot-outs ! !

https://showsport.me/football/gianluigi-donnarumma-uefa-euro-team-italy-22969611

Southgate had a good bit of time in the game to up the tempo where Mancini had shuffled his pack and the whole complexion of the game changed against England and he did nothing.

[seanfhear]

Southgate had a good bit of time in the game to up the tempo where Mancini had shuffled his pack and the whole complexion of the game changed against England and he did nothing.
Rabbit in the Headlights for a man that has no managerial record for a job as big as the England Job. The Croatians wiped the floor with him 3 years ago and the Italians wiped the floor with him on Sunday.

A Yes Man that was in the right place at the right time after Sam Allardyce blew the England Job.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Think that World Cup bid should be quietly dropped: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1203/1264617-england-euros-win-could-have-had-horrific-impact/


A ticketless group of 6,000 were believed to be preparing to storm the stadium as legitimate ticket-holders were trying to leave.

An official from the London emergency services said the consequences of an England win would have been "horrific", and that a major incident would have been declared at Wembley and in central London.


The official added: "I can guarantee that we would have been on our knees."


An official from the Sports Grounds Safety Authority told the review: "Thank God England lost. If they had won you would have to open the doors to let people out and the stadium would have been stormed."


One individual even impersonated a steward and hijacked a disabled child in a wheelchair, separating him from his father in an attempt to gain entry to the stadium.