Rugby Thuggery

[Superhoops]

The disciplinary fallout from the Lions' first Test defeat to New Zealand escalated when lock forward Danny Grewcock was cited for allegedly biting All Blacks hooker Keven Mealamu.

This apparently happened 3 minutes after he came on the field. Dont know if it is true, but if it is proven Grewcock should be sent home and banned from rugby for at least 12 months. There can be no excuses for biting, it is a dirty cowardly act! :mad: :mad:

[pete]

Dunno depends where he bit him. Maybe he missed or something :eek:

[Anto McC]

O'Driscoll was deliberatly taken out of the game and the tour aswell.

[pete]

Grewcock gets 2 month ban (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/4623565.stm)

Seems he got the ban for biting guys fingers that were already in this mouth. :eek:

[jofyisgod]

All Blacks hooker Keven Mealamu.



Serves this cúnt right. He's the one who took BOD out, and his punishment:Sweet FA.

[niamh]

fingers that were already in this mouth. :eek:


That's the bit that made me wonder...

[OwlsFan]

The disciplinary fallout from the Lions' first Test defeat to New Zealand escalated when lock forward Danny Grewcock was cited for allegedly biting All Blacks hooker Keven Mealamu.

As a member of the grammar police, this "defeat to" really bugs me. Sky and now RTE are following this trend. It's "defeat by" or " loss to". Defeated by or lost to not defeated to.

Rugby is a thug's game - it's assult in the guise of sport. Someone will be killed one of these days it's got so physical since the advent of the professional era. Soccer on the other hand has gone the other way - a mere touch sends a player into his death throes.

[hamish]

As a member of the grammar police, this "defeat to" really bugs me. Sky and now RTE are following this trend. It's "defeat by" or " loss to". Defeated by or lost to not defeated to.

Rugby is a thug's game - it's assult in the guise of sport. Someone will be killed one of these days it's got so physical since the advent of the professional era. Soccer on the other hand has gone the other way - a mere touch sends a player into his death throes.

Great game for the born awkward. Fcuk all good at anything else.

[hamish]

And the 'born fat'.

And the 'born with names that would ensure they'd get battered in any other game' - Geordan, Girvan (Girv the Swerve), Malcolm, Simon and Guy Easterby etc. etc. etc.

It has to be ironic that Sky and Sky Sports wouldn't exist without football so, basically, those who subscribe to Sky are sponsoring/subsidising eggball coverage 'cos it wouldn't get on the sports channels otherwise since nobody looks at it.
I get a satellite monthly which gives the satellite ratings and the only programmes that make the top ten are football and The Simpsons with the odd programme like Desperate Housewives or something like that.

[Green Tribe]

And the 'born fat'.

And the 'born with names that would ensure they'd get battered in any other game' - Geordan, Girvan (Girv the Swerve), Malcolm, Simon and Guy Easterby etc. etc. etc.

Fat? Conor are you just jealous cos they don't manufacture Kerry men like this rugby player.....? :p :rolleyes: :D :D

A rugby player...... (http://www.oscillatewildly.org/images/frederic07.jpg)

[hamish]

He looks a bit gay to me. :p

I mean, look at that pout :eek:

[Superhoops]

As a member of the grammar police, this "defeat to" really bugs me. Sky and now RTE are following this trend. It's "defeat by" or " loss to". Defeated by or lost to not defeated to.

Rugby is a thug's game - it's assult in the guise of sport. Someone will be killed one of these days it's got so physical since the advent of the professional era. Soccer on the other hand has gone the other way - a mere touch sends a player into his death throes.
Don't know to which branch of the grammar police you belong, it is certainly not the spelling or punctuation departments! :rolleyes:

[Green Tribe]

He looks a bit gay to me. :p

I mean, look at that pout :eek:

Agh, now hamish, he's just pure 100% beefcake :D That's my totty watch nomination you're slagging! :mad: :D

[Macy]

Rugby's a physical game. Less so since professionalism. Anyone who thinks rugby's for thugs should consider some of the great footballing hero's. Just for Conor we'll start with those nancy boys the Lids team of the 70's. Couldn't and wouldn't fight their way out of a boutique paper bag, and in no way bullied and kicked (and bribed) their way around the country/europe....

[OwlsFan]

Don't know to which branch of the grammar police you belong, it is certainly not the spelling or punctuation departments! :rolleyes:

You should have a full stop instead of a comma after the word "belong" :p

[Macy]

Go Malcolm go... You supporting the Bucs this season or that whole Salford FC idea?

Nice to see you don't even argue the point about Lids of the 70's being thugs, makes a change from claiming they were Champions of Europe.... :cool:

[patsh]

You have to laugh at this sh*t.

Listening to the Sunday Show was pure comic genius.
Some FF TD DEMANDING that something be done about it.
Some other gobdaw saying he is SO ANGRY about this.
Then that moron Hook positively foaming at the mouth (again)
and then Tom McGurk almost in tears as he waxed lyrical about the fallen hero.

What story was I listening to, I wondered?
More famine in Africa, hundreds more bodies found in Iraq, the plight of the 2 out of 5 children that live in poverty in this country?
No, SOMETHING MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT.

Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...
I'll repeat that again
Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...

well f*ck me sideways, isn't that a TOTAL DISGRACE and THE MOST SHOCKING THING EVER!
and we have to have an inquest on the national airwaves.....:rolleyes:

A makey up "team" from the tax evading, slave labour employing, gurrier class goes out to New Zealand to play some friendlies and act the maggot and we have morons falling over each other to clamber up the high moral ground when they do exactly what these f*ckers always do on a rugger pitch....

You couldn't make this stuff up...

[drinkfeckarse]

So you don't like rugby then Patsh.... :D

[Éanna]

So you don't like rugby then Patsh.... :D
nah, he's just annoyed he couldn't go on the lions tour :D

[The Good Son]

You have to laugh at this sh*t.

Listening to the Sunday Show was pure comic genius.
Some FF TD DEMANDING that something be done about it.
Some other gobdaw saying he is SO ANGRY about this.
Then that moron Hook positively foaming at the mouth (again)
and then Tom McGurk almost in tears as he waxed lyrical about the fallen hero.

What story was I listening to, I wondered?
More famine in Africa, hundreds more bodies found in Iraq, the plight of the 2 out of 5 children that live in poverty in this country?
No, SOMETHING MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT.

Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...
I'll repeat that again
Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...

well f*ck me sideways, isn't that a TOTAL DISGRACE and THE MOST SHOCKING THING EVER!
and we have to have an inquest on the national airwaves.....:rolleyes:

A makey up "team" from the tax evading, slave labour employing, gurrier class goes out to New Zealand to play some friendlies and act the maggot and we have morons falling over each other to clamber up the high moral ground when they do exactly what these f*ckers always do on a rugger pitch....

You couldn't make this stuff up...
Ahh Patsh this is surely an obvous attempt for two in a row in the POTM competition, well it gets my vote anyway.

[hamish]

You have to laugh at this sh*t.

Listening to the Sunday Show was pure comic genius.
Some FF TD DEMANDING that something be done about it.
Some other gobdaw saying he is SO ANGRY about this.
Then that moron Hook positively foaming at the mouth (again)
and then Tom McGurk almost in tears as he waxed lyrical about the fallen hero.

What story was I listening to, I wondered?
More famine in Africa, hundreds more bodies found in Iraq, the plight of the 2 out of 5 children that live in poverty in this country?
No, SOMETHING MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT.

Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...
I'll repeat that again
Some rugger boy gets tackled and injured in a rugger "game"...

well f*ck me sideways, isn't that a TOTAL DISGRACE and THE MOST SHOCKING THING EVER!
and we have to have an inquest on the national airwaves.....:rolleyes:

A makey up "team" from the tax evading, slave labour employing, gurrier class goes out to New Zealand to play some friendlies and act the maggot and we have morons falling over each other to clamber up the high moral ground when they do exactly what these f*ckers always do on a rugger pitch....

You couldn't make this stuff up...

Now now Patsh, sure after the game, the...heh heh...ETHOS will take over and they'll all have a good laugh over a few beers. I mean, Danny Grewcock and co could NEVER be compared to that Mike Tyson. Grewcock just happened to discover fingers inserted in his mouth. Reminds me of that story of a fellow complaining that the other fellow's face got in the way of his boot.
You're right, you couldn't make it up. The episode you mentioned is just another example of self indulgence that permeates RTE and the Turbine.

As for Macy's statement that eggball is less physical after professionalism - not true. Bigger players, more "hits" and more injuries.

[hamish]

Lots more padding for the lads too. I presume that's to give those who weigh less than 20 stone a chance to look fat too.

Joke sport - over rated, over indulged and over looked by most of the planet.

[hamish]

I like the bit where some fat guy hoofs a ball so far into the car park that you can almost hear the sound of a Mercedes windshield breaking, and instead of swearing at him everyone in the crowd applauds in that muffled noise you get when good leather and wool gloves are slapped together.

It's just a pretend sport, Rollerball is a more natural game than anything that involves scrums and lineouts.

Yeah, a swerve and a pop pass is "genius" - the equivalent in football: swerve and a short pass: is regarded as nothing special.

[hamish]

:D

True.

If a rugby player goes past another, they rave about how 'he dropped the shoulder and showed him the other way, feinted left and went right, selling him the dummy' blah blah blah. Then again, I suppose it is kinda interesting in a silly way, sort of like whales doing ballet.

:D :D Poor whales always tought them elegant creatures - I'd have gone for hippos meself. LOL

I remember Ronaldo being in New Zealand promoting an Under 17 World Cup there a few years ago. Someone tossed an eggball at him and after a split second look of surprise at this strange object, he flipped it up in the air with his right foot and proceeded to do all the tricks we associate with a footie ball with the eggball.

Cue red faces from the Kiwis - the cheek of him to show REAL skill.

On a more serious level, I've nowt againt eggball - if people want to go and kill themselves then that's their choice but, Conor, you wouldn't believe the number of times friends of mine have sold me tickets for and have gone to fund raising events for some poor b@stard who'll spend the rest of his life in a wheelchair, needing 24/7 care. :(

[Green Tribe]

Go Malcolm go... You supporting the Bucs this season or that whole Salford FC idea?

Now here (http://www.welshrugbypics.co.uk/events/040526tour/040526adam_jones.jpg) is a rugby player.

:rolleyes: Stop picking on him, that's the style in the Welsh team nowadays...... :D

[CollegeTillIDie]

Rugby might be a thugs game but compared to Bogball it is positively civilized ! :D

[patsh]

Rugby might be a thugs game but compared to Bogball it is positively civilized ! :D
Unfortunately, I have to agree with that....:eek:

[Closed Account 2]

Now here (http://www.welshrugbypics.co.uk/events/040526tour/040526adam_jones.jpg) is a rugby player.


Looks like Puyol's not skipped dinner for a while.

[el tk]

You guys are all pathetic, you're afraid of rugby because you quite simply don't understand it, I don't know what I should have expected from a bunch of boggers though. 'A swerve and a pop pass'-not genius but good rugby if executed properly. Pro football players would have a tough time lasting the pace in pro rugby and keeping up with its physicality.

[patsh]

You guys are all pathetic, you're afraid of rugby because you quite simply don't understand it, I don't know what I should have expected from a bunch of boggers though. 'A swerve and a pop pass'-not genius but good rugby if executed properly. Pro football players would have a tough time lasting the pace in pro rugby and keeping up with its physicality.
Rugger boys are all about physicality, most of them would look like lumbering idiots on a football field, made total micks out of by skill and pace.


Actually, most of them look like lumbering idiots anyway.....:p

[el tk]

Rugger boys are all about physicality, most of them would look like lumbering idiots on a football field, made total micks out of by skill and pace.


Actually, most of them look like lumbering idiots anyway.....:p

Right so you're saying if you set Jason Robinson, Joe Rococoko, even Denis Hickie on a football pitch in acres of space they'd look like lumbering idiots?

Part of rugby is all physical yes but you could hardly say that's Shane Williams' speciality

[CollegeTillIDie]

Hey I have been to a few rugby matches and found them entertaining.
Went to a couple of AIL matches and managed to see Ireland play the All Blacks before Jonah Lomu got ill.

[hamish]

Rugger boys are all about physicality, most of them would look like lumbering idiots on a football field, made total micks out of by skill and pace.


Actually, most of them look like lumbering idiots anyway.....:p

Patsh, we wasted our time on this topic before with Soko - these guys are brainwashed - best not try to convince them - they live in a very small, self indulged world. The genius term I used above was a comment from Tony Ward regarding the pop pass and swerve.
I saw Ward play for Rovers a few times - the last in the old Terryland Park and also for Limerick on other occasions - he was a nifty if average winger at best. Same goes for trio cited above - so they're fast, so what.
There's a hell of lot more skill involved swerving past or outrunning opposition WITH A BALL AT ONE'S FEET than in a hand grip.
And el tk calls us pathetic? Gas isn't he? :D Eggballers are so unused to anything resembling criticism, that, like Soko, they react in such childish fashion. Then it must be frustrating following a game that's below the radar is most of the world. I'm sure they're fascinated by the Lions tour in Finland, Germany, China, USA etc - probably completely unaware of its existence.
BTW Ive played both games and in a so called eggball college - I found footie more skillful and tougher than anything eggball had to offer.

Needless to say, the "bogger" term was slobbered out - what a silly little boy.

Why can't the eggball freaks feck off and form their version of Footie where they can mix with their own sort. I'm sure all twenty of them would have a jolly old time. LOL :D

[hamish]

Hey I have been to a few rugby matches and found them entertaining.
Went to a couple of AIL matches and managed to see Ireland play the All Blacks before Jonah Lomu got ill.

Here was I thinking you were perfect. :p :D

[el tk]

Patsh, we wasted our time on this topic before with Soko - these guys are brainwashed - best not try to convince them - they live in a very small, self indulged world. T
And el tk calls us pathetic? Gas isn't he? :D Eggballers are so unused to anything resembling criticism, that, like Soko, they react in such childish fashion. Then it must be frustrating following a game that's below the radar is most of the world. I'm sure they're fascinated by the Lions tour in Finland, Germany, China, USA etc - probably completely unaware of its existence.
BTW Ive played both games and in a so called eggball college - I found footie more skillful and tougher than anything eggball had to offer.

Needless to say, the "bogger" term was slobbered out - what a silly little boy.

Why can't the eggball freaks feck off and form their version of Footie where they can mix with their own sort. I'm sure all twenty of them would have a jolly old time. LOL :D

You didn't get I was ripping the **** with my bogger clichés after you guys brought out all the old rugby ones? Maybe I should lower the intellectual bar slightly

well if it's the self-indulged world kinda guy ya want then here ya go- Basically, roysh, skangerball is, as the name implies, a game for skecks and boggers, vastly inferior to rugby but the tossers are just, loike, too stupid to realise it? enough of that or I'll never be able to return.
My point about rococoko et al was because someone said they would be made to look like lumbering idiots on a football pitch and I just wanted to point out their limited understanding of rugby- this very same thing applies to you. Rugby is diverse, there are big, physically strong guys and small pacy guys and everything in between yet when you rugby-fearing soccer-loving people go looking for a rugby cliché you pull out that of the prop or the lock forward- never the skill of an out-half or someone like Geordan Murphy or Brian O'Driscoll.

I take my hat off to you and the others- I mean you guys clearly know and understand rugby when you start going on about how bad it is, and your arguements, I mean I've never heard any of them before! not one.

2 final points:
1) I think Tony Ward is a self-obsessed idiot who overuses the phrase "he had no right to do X,Y, or Z, but he did it"

2) If you don't like being called a bogger maybe don't use the phrases 'gas' (state of you) or 'feck', I mean, seriously, do you have an instrument to play to your stereotypes?

[hamish]

Hey I have been to a few rugby matches and found them entertaining.
Went to a couple of AIL matches and managed to see Ireland play the All Blacks before Jonah Lomu got ill.

Here was I thinking you were perfect. :p :D

[CollegeTillIDie]

Here was I thinking you were perfect. :p :D

How would I have stayed single this long if I was? :D

[hamish]

You didn't get I was ripping the **** with my bogger clichés after you guys brought out all the old rugby ones? Maybe I should lower the intellectual bar slightly

well if it's the self-indulged world kinda guy ya want then here ya go- Basically, roysh, skangerball is, as the name implies, a game for skecks and boggers, vastly inferior to rugby but the tossers are just, loike, too stupid to realise it? enough of that or I'll never be able to return.
My point about rococoko et al was because someone said they would be made to look like lumbering idiots on a football pitch and I just wanted to point out their limited understanding of rugby- this very same thing applies to you. Rugby is diverse, there are big, physically strong guys and small pacy guys and everything in between yet when you rugby-fearing soccer-loving people go looking for a rugby cliché you pull out that of the prop or the lock forward- never the skill of an out-half or someone like Geordan Murphy or Brian O'Driscoll.

I take my hat off to you and the others- I mean you guys clearly know and understand rugby when you start going on about how bad it is, and your arguements, I mean I've never heard any of them before! not one.

2 final points:
1) I think Tony Ward is a self-obsessed idiot who overuses the phrase "he had no right to do X,Y, or Z, but he did it"

2) If you don't like being called a bogger maybe don't use the phrases 'gas' (state of you) or 'feck', I mean, seriously, do you have an instrument to play to your stereotypes?

Oh dear, oh dear. If YOU are going to indulge in stereotypes, could you really not do better than a poor copy of Paul Howard's badly written and pathetic excuse for humouir in the back page of the Sunday Tribune? :rolleyes:

I make my comparision from the viewpoint of participation and observation, which gives me a certain degree of qualification in forming an opinion. Repeat example, which you conviently overlooked, is that it is much more difficult to control a ball and outwit opposition with the ball at one's feet than in one's hand.

Regarding your attempt at colloquailisms from outside the Pale - "feck" and "gas" are also used in Dublin, maybe even in Dublin 4? Travel does broaden the mind, try it.

Bogger? No, not bothered what you call me and my fellow "skangers" (really hip Dublin term :rolleyes: ) I quite enjoy the cut and thrust of harmless name calling. Rather ironic that you're lack of knowledge of both games and over emotional response rather deflects that former term onto you. Feel free to call us what you like. As for lowering the intellectual bar, sorry, I am not able to descend to your level. I also didn't request a self indulgent example either - your own opinions are quite suffcient, thank you.

In real newspapers like The Guardian (Robert Kitson) and The Observer (Eddie Butler - former Welsh International) - it is frequently stated that rugby is becoming less diverse with an over emphasis on physicality and scrums etc - witness the humiliation of the Lions outfit by NZ. Williams, the little Welsh chap, was wiped off the grass, wasn't he?
Will Carling - ok he's a bit of a prat - has stated that today's eggball player is much bigger than players of even ten years ago because of the over emphasis on muscle building and on forward play, resulting in a game - especially in the Northern Hemisphere - with fewer flowing movements and too much static play. Tom McGurk, George Hook, The NZ bloke whose name I cannot recall, have all stated this too. Are they all wrong?

Actually I do watch the occasional game of rugby, since like 70% of those who subscribe to Sky Sports - football fans - I have the opportunity to view it. Basically, we subsidise the promotion of eggball on Sky. You should be grateful. :D

We football fans have no hesitation in savaging football with regard to its faults and defects and suggesting improvements, both on and off the field. etc. Rugby journalists also have no hesitation in criticising "soccer". It seems that when the boot is on the other foot, we are quickly dropped into little boxes marked "skanger", "ignorant" etc. Now, that's what's REALLY pathetic, even in so called jest.

Finally, as for "fearing" eggball? Nothing to fear in terms of world popularity and participation. There is simply no contest. Also, having played both games in a so called rugby school, I found football far tougher and much more skilfull.

[hamish]

How would I have stayed single this long if I was? :D

As usual, I've no answer to that. :p

el tk and Soko are a doddle to toy with and take the p!$$ out of compared to you. :D

I'm patient, CTID, very patient, ONE DAY I will catch you out. LOL :D

[CollegeTillIDie]

In real newspapers like The Guardian (Robert Kitson) and The Observer (Eddie Butler - former Welsh International) - it is frequently stated that rugby is becoming less diverse with an over emphasis on physicality and scrums etc - witness the humiliation of the Lions outfit by NZ. Williams, the little Welsh chap, was wiped off the grass, wasn't he?
Will Carling - ok he's a bit of a prat - has stated that today's eggball player is much bigger than players of even ten years ago because of the over emphasis on muscle building and on forward play, resulting in a game - especially in the Northern Hemisphere - with fewer flowing movements and too much static play. Tom McGurk, George Hook, The NZ bloke whose name I cannot recall, have all stated this too. Are they all wrong?

His name is Brent Pope... your points are well made as usual....

[CollegeTillIDie]

Speaking of Tony Ward...here is a list of rugger buggers who were also half decent Soccer players

1/ Tony Ward ( Shamrock Rovers and Limerick United)
Played for the Hoops in the mid 1970's and when he moved to Limerick he was asked to play for United and was a member of their 1982 F.A.I. Cup winning side and played in the Cup-Winners Cup for them.

2/Paul McNaughton ( Shelbourne) The Irish international Rugby centre played for the reds during the early to mid 1970's

3/ Hugo Mc Neill (UCD) He was our soccer clubs player of the year in 1978/79 scoring 46 goals in all competitions. Soccer's loss was rugby's gain when he judassed off to Trinity :D . And he played in the 1987 Rugby World Cup.

4/ Barry McGann ... The Irish outhalf also allegedly played League of Ireland soccer for one of the Dublin clubs. It must have been early in his career cause he made his name in rugby as far as I can recall with Cork Constitution.The information on him is anecdotal so I don't know which soccer club he was with.

[el tk]

Oh dear, oh dear. If YOU are going to indulge in stereotypes, could you really not do better than a poor copy of Paul Howard's badly written and pathetic excuse for humouir in the back page of the Sunday Tribune? :rolleyes:

I make my comparision from the viewpoint of participation and observation, which gives me a certain degree of qualification in forming an opinion. Repeat example, which you conviently overlooked, is that it is much more difficult to control a ball and outwit opposition with the ball at one's feet than in one's hand.

Regarding your attempt at colloquailisms from outside the Pale - "feck" and "gas" are also used in Dublin, maybe even in Dublin 4? Travel does broaden the mind, try it.

Bogger? No, not bothered what you call me and my fellow "skangers" (really hip Dublin term :rolleyes: ) I quite enjoy the cut and thrust of harmless name calling. Rather ironic that you're lack of knowledge of both games and over emotional response rather deflects that former term onto you. Feel free to call us what you like. As for lowering the intellectual bar, sorry, I am not able to descend to your level. I also didn't request a self indulgent example either - your own opinions are quite suffcient, thank you.

In real newspapers like The Guardian (Robert Kitson) and The Observer (Eddie Butler - former Welsh International) - it is frequently stated that rugby is becoming less diverse with an over emphasis on physicality and scrums etc - witness the humiliation of the Lions outfit by NZ. Williams, the little Welsh chap, was wiped off the grass, wasn't he?
Will Carling - ok he's a bit of a prat - has stated that today's eggball player is much bigger than players of even ten years ago because of the over emphasis on muscle building and on forward play, resulting in a game - especially in the Northern Hemisphere - with fewer flowing movements and too much static play. Tom McGurk, George Hook, The NZ bloke whose name I cannot recall, have all stated this too. Are they all wrong?

Actually I do watch the occasional game of rugby, since like 70% of those who subscribe to Sky Sports - football fans - I have the opportunity to view it. Basically, we subsidise the promotion of eggball on Sky. You should be grateful. :D

We football fans have no hesitation in savaging football with regard to its faults and defects and suggesting improvements, both on and off the field. etc. Rugby journalists also have no hesitation in criticising "soccer". It seems that when the boot is on the other foot, we are quickly dropped into little boxes marked "skanger", "ignorant" etc. Now, that's what's REALLY pathetic, even in so called jest.

Finally, as for "fearing" eggball? Nothing to fear in terms of world popularity and participation. There is simply no contest. Also, having played both games in a so called rugby school, I found football far tougher and much more skilfull.


As far as rip-the-**** rugby steretypes go they don't come much better than Howard's. I mean, after what you guys started I thought we were all indulging in stereotypes to show how smart and well-informed we were?!

I also have spent many years playing and watching both games (even thought I don't have Sky) and I'm not trying to say one or the other is better, I can appreciate both but it annoys me when people who know little of a sport try to shoehorn it into a cliché somewhere in the back of their mind.

Did you see the Lions NZ match last week? Because yes, Williams took a few big hits from the big but the NZ backs emphasised a lot of what is good about rugby as in when they got space to attack they exploited the Lions with some really beautiful rugby and scored some quality tries.

I don't live in D4 (I do pass through it on occasion though, UCD is part of it after all) and on my travels I have never once heard anyone say 'feck' or 'gas', just so you know.

If you're going to enjoy the 'harmless cut and thrust of name calling' you might want to et your facts right- I was calling you boggers to rip the **** (which you still don't seem to get) and I called you skecks (not skangers-that was skangerball).

My lack of knowledge of both games? That's just wrong, I know more about rugby than apparently you ever will and I know a bit about football.

And I don't recall the last time anyone connected with rugby criticised socer, most rugby fans have a lot of complaints and suggestions about rugb 'on and off the pitch' -most pressingly the predicament of developing rugby nations.

And if you think soccer fans get shoehorned as 'skangers' and the rest of it, rugby is still considered a middle/upper class game and comes in for a bit of stick in the press and elsewhere (Tom Humphries, the GAA-loving idiot from the paper of record).

As dor the difference between beating an opponent one on one with ball in hand- look at it this way if a soccer player regularly takes on opponents and beats tehm (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo and Ryan Giggs) they are considered good, as a certain type of player, in rugby the same is true, note every player is blessed with the ability to beat someone one on one but some do regularly where this is going is basically in soccer, the physical contact is limited- if you can push the ball past your opponent it's half the battle because basically, now he can't touch you, in rugby you can be tackled anywhere on your body, basically it's much easier for an opponent to stop you without breaking the rules and you need to be superior to him in some wa- if you want to take him on the outside you have to be faster, if you want to go therough him you need to be stronger etc.

Travel broadens the mind- it's clearly worked wonders on yours. It's probably done a bit for mine aswell, but you'll forgive me if I prefer Venice, Milan, Colorado et al to the Irish countryside- I am a rugby nancy boy with a dD4 accent after all :p

[gspain]

Interesting debate.

Although first and foremost a football fan growing up in Limerick everybody follows rugby.

1) I haven't experienced any antipathy towards football among rugby fans - I've lived in Limerick, Cork, Galway and Dublin. In Limerick local clubs and the branch have been very accomodating for amny many years.

2) A number of football fans in Dublin and elsewhere really dislike rugby. The main reason appears to be the D4 element i.e. pretty much the same reason the Limerick clubs dislike the Dublin ones.

3) The D4 (can also be SCD, D6 or D6W) stereotype is alive and well. Most obvious to me watching Limerick clubs in the AIL in dublin or attending a few Leinster HC games. There are of course many many genuine rugby fans in Dublin.

4) I attend all home football Internationals and almost all home rugby Internationals (unless I'm at an away football International) and there is a different mix of people at both.

As an aside one funny story - on the first day of the AIL Garryowen (Limerick) travelled to Dublin to take on Wanderers (all the media had the Dublin clubs to top the elague and the Limerick teams to be relegated - this persisted even after years of lucky Limerick wins). Garryowen duly beat Wanderers and the players were celebrating the win in the clubhouse in a manner not deemed to be appropriate. One lady member chose to admonish a Limerick ruffian enjoying a pint on the shoulders of a colleague jumping around the clubhouse. The then current Irish International (who shall remain nameless) responded with "We're the snob club in Limerick lady wait until Munsters come up and beat you".

[hamish]

As far as rip-the-**** rugby steretypes go they don't come much better than Howard's. I mean, after what you guys started I thought we were all indulging in stereotypes to show how smart and well-informed we were?!

I also have spent many years playing and watching both games (even thought I don't have Sky) and I'm not trying to say one or the other is better, I can appreciate both but it annoys me when people who know little of a sport try to shoehorn it into a cliché somewhere in the back of their mind.

Did you see the Lions NZ match last week? Because yes, Williams took a few big hits from the big but the NZ backs emphasised a lot of what is good about rugby as in when they got space to attack they exploited the Lions with some really beautiful rugby and scored some quality tries.



Paragraph 1- Howard is displaying more of himself than he has the intelligence to realise and it is a badly written, unfunny and, basically, a waste of a good tree - or portion of........ :D

Paragraph 2 - too easy to lob the "cliche" ctiticism. That's a cop out.

Paragraph 3 - That just reinforces my point - and the other former rugby players' criticisms - of the Northern Hemisphere game. NZ have brought the game back to a more enjoyable spectacle with fluidity in both backs and forwards. Shock! Horror! We might even agree here. LOL

[hamish]

I don't live in D4 (I do pass through it on occasion though, UCD is part of it after all) and on my travels I have never once heard anyone say 'feck' or 'gas', just so you know.

If you're going to enjoy the 'harmless cut and thrust of name calling' you might want to et your facts right- I was calling you boggers to rip the **** (which you still don't seem to get) and I called you skecks (not skangers-that was skangerball).

My lack of knowledge of both games? That's just wrong, I know more about rugby than apparently you ever will and I know a bit about football.

And I don't recall the last time anyone connected with rugby criticised socer, most rugby fans have a lot of complaints and suggestions about rugb 'on and off the pitch' -most pressingly the predicament of developing rugby nations.

And if you think soccer fans get shoehorned as 'skangers' and the rest of it, rugby is still considered a middle/upper class game and comes in for a bit of stick in the press and elsewhere (Tom Humphries, the GAA-loving idiot from the paper of record).
:p

Paragraph 1 - I have - in Doheny and Nesbitts, O'Sheas etc and. in the former, by fellows who were chatting about a rugby game they'd recently played. I have to say it, they spoke with a distinct D4 accent. What was I doing in those pubs? Worked in those areas for a while and, after all, a pub is a pub when one is thirsty. LOL

Paragraph 2 - "skangers", "skeks", "boggers"? So what. You're attempts, here, are really lame - it was that easy to get. Yawn.

Paragraph 3 - That, of course, is your opinion. :rolleyes:

Paragraph 4 - I have heard it far too many times - McGurk, Ward, Karl Johnson, the idiot on Morning Ireland who told Des Cahill that rugby players would never indulge in the likes of "roasting" and are far better behaved than soccer players. At the same time, the Observer carried a report of (white) players in a South African rugby club up on trial for murder when they arranged a hunt of black kids in a rural region. One was sentenced for murder. They walked in to court laughing and joking as if it were a mere jest.
There was, of course, that disgraceful Lions tour of South Africa during apartheid times. In itself, behaviour which was disgraceful.

Paragraph 4 - Shock! Horror! Regarding Humphries, I tend to agree with you. I think he's overrated and, unfortunately, over here. I cannot recall how many times I have heard cheerleaders, in the guise of journalists, parroting how much the game has left its "traditional" areas and is being played by people of all classes. This is the new mantra - a game played by all classes. Certainly makes a change from the time when an Irish international (Foley, I think) was listed in an Irish match programme as a "company representative". He was a truck driver!
Did you see that Clongowes Wood programme a couple of years ago? The "great and the good", "leaders in/of society", "rugby instills a discipline of fellowship" which will give us great leaders in society. That mentality still exists, whether you like it or not.
The funniest part of that programme was near the beginning - it showed a sign pinned to a tree near the school's entrance. On it was "Beware of the bull". Now, if the definite article was removed, it would have been a perfect summary of the rubbish which followed. Early stages showed the Principal addressing the students stating that any rugby connection to the tragic Brian Murphy situation was "balderdash". Why did he even have to say that?

[hamish]

As dor the difference between beating an opponent one on one with ball in hand- look at it this way if a soccer player regularly takes on opponents and beats tehm (e.g. Cristiano Ronaldo and Ryan Giggs) they are considered good, as a certain type of player, in rugby the same is true, note every player is blessed with the ability to beat someone one on one but some do regularly where this is going is basically in soccer, the physical contact is limited- if you can push the ball past your opponent it's half the battle because basically, now he can't touch you, in rugby you can be tackled anywhere on your body, basically it's much easier for an opponent to stop you without breaking the rules and you need to be superior to him in some wa- if you want to take him on the outside you have to be faster, if you want to go therough him you need to be stronger etc.

Travel broadens the mind- it's clearly worked wonders on yours. It's probably done a bit for mine aswell, but you'll forgive me if I prefer Venice, Milan, Colorado et al to the Irish countryside- I am a rugby nancy boy with a dD4 accent after all :p

Paragraph 1 - In football, there is an emphasis on skill in both defenders and attackers. A good, forward - give better examples than Ronaldo and Giggs, the former rarely beats his marker - The forward has the ball at his feet with no use of his hands to outwit the defender and, much more importantly, the defender has to use skill to deprive him of the ball - he cannot drag him down. There are footballing skills involved regarding BOTH players. Of course, if the defender fouls, then a freekick is awarded and, if it continues, cards are issued. The actual attempt to tackle with one leg only allowed, makes it more than half a battle.
Jumping on, dragging down, involving, sometimes, a NUMBER of players, on the player in possession, cannot be considered remotely as skillful. Even shirt pulling seems to be allowed.

Paragraph 2 - A ha! A variation on the "some fo my best friends are...." argument. Also, the final sentence? Are we being a tad defensive here??? Again, whether travel has worked wonders on me - predictable attempt at sarcasm. Let me just state this, since I follow a game which gives me the opportunity to visit far more places on the planet than the sport you're defending, I think there is some hope for old Hamish. Sadly, not in your case. :D

[hamish]

Speaking of Tony Ward...here is a list of rugger buggers who were also half decent Soccer players

1/ Tony Ward ( Shamrock Rovers and Limerick United)
Played for the Hoops in the mid 1970's and when he moved to Limerick he was asked to play for United and was a member of their 1982 F.A.I. Cup winning side and played in the Cup-Winners Cup for them.

2/Paul McNaughton ( Shelbourne) The Irish international Rugby centre played for the reds during the early to mid 1970's

3/ Hugo Mc Neill (UCD) He was our soccer clubs player of the year in 1978/79 scoring 46 goals in all competitions. Soccer's loss was rugby's gain when he judassed off to Trinity :D . And he played in the 1987 Rugby World Cup.

4/ Barry McGann ... The Irish outhalf also allegedly played League of Ireland soccer for one of the Dublin clubs. It must have been early in his career cause he made his name in rugby as far as I can recall with Cork Constitution.The information on him is anecdotal so I don't know which soccer club he was with.

yep, saw them all "live" as it were.

"Half decent" - your words, not mine. :p :D Not that I disagree, mind you. I was at that Cup Final BTW and he deserves the credit for taking a fine corner kick which Brendan Storan..er....converted. :D Other than that, he was invisible but, I suppose, it's the goal "assist" (copywrite USA sawker) that is remembered.

Brent Pope - that's the guy. Met him once, briefly, when the schools outfit were organising the Irish Permanent sponsorship in the 1990s. Very pleasant chap - cannot remember what his role in the whole shebang was but he appeared to have an appreciation, if TBF, limited knowledge of football. Nothing wrong with that.

Barry McGann played for Shels.

As regards my well made points, CTID???? Your role in Footieland is to take the p!$$ of old Hamish and keep me in my place - you're slipping. LOL :D

[el tk]

Paragraph 1- Howard is displaying more of himself than he has the intelligence to realise and it is a badly written, unfunny and, basically, a waste of a good tree - or portion of........ :D

Paragraph 2 - too easy to lob the "cliche" ctiticism. That's a cop out.

Paragraph 3 - That just reinforces my point - and the other former rugby players' criticisms - of the Northern Hemisphere game. NZ have brought the game back to a more enjoyable spectacle with fluidity in both backs and forwards. Shock! Horror! We might even agree here. LOL

Ok so you don't like Paul Howard, I am indifferent towards him although the style of speech from the 'Ross' column is apt to use on occasion if one is trying to annoy someone, didn't appear to work in this case.

The main reason I responded to this topic in the first place was I was bascially appalled by the amount of people trotting out the old rugby clichés which displeased me.

Firstly, New Zealand have always played the way they play now, Secondly you'll note of the 3 best teams in Europe (France and England and Wales by dint of their Grand Slam this years) two of them play a loose, pacy game with many offloads, England at the time of their RWC victory had world class backs but tended not to use them as much as they could.

[el tk]

Paragraph 1 - I have - in Doheny and Nesbitts, O'Sheas etc and. in the former, by fellows who were chatting about a rugby game they'd recently played. I have to say it, they spoke with a distinct D4 accent. What was I doing in those pubs? Worked in those areas for a while and, after all, a pub is a pub when one is thirsty. LOL

Paragraph 2 - "skangers", "skeks", "boggers"? So what. You're attempts, here, are really lame - it was that easy to get. Yawn.

Paragraph 3 - That, of course, is your opinion. :rolleyes:

Paragraph 4 - I have heard it far too many times - McGurk, Ward, Karl Johnson, the idiot on Morning Ireland who told Des Cahill that rugby players would never indulge in the likes of "roasting" and are far better behaved than soccer players. At the same time, the Observer carried a report of (white) players in a South African rugby club up on trial for murder when they arranged a hunt of black kids in a rural region. One was sentenced for murder. They walked in to court laughing and joking as if it were a mere jest.
There was, of course, that disgraceful Lions tour of South Africa during apartheid times. In itself, behaviour which was disgraceful.

Paragraph 4 - Shock! Horror! Regarding Humphries, I tend to agree with you. I think he's overrated and, unfortunately, over here. I cannot recall how many times I have heard cheerleaders, in the guise of journalists, parroting how much the game has left its "traditional" areas and is being played by people of all classes. This is the new mantra - a game played by all classes. Certainly makes a change from the time when an Irish international (Foley, I think) was listed in an Irish match programme as a "company representative". He was a truck driver!
Did you see that Clongowes Wood programme a couple of years ago? The "great and the good", "leaders in/of society", "rugby instills a discipline of fellowship" which will give us great leaders in society. That mentality still exists, whether you like it or not.
The funniest part of that programme was near the beginning - it showed a sign pinned to a tree near the school's entrance. On it was "Beware of the bull". Now, if the definite article was removed, it would have been a perfect summary of the rubbish which followed. Early stages showed the Principal addressing the students stating that any rugby connection to the tragic Brian Murphy situation was "balderdash". Why did he even have to say that?

1. Wow, fascinating, I recently read a story by a journalist who told of two Drogheda girls aged about 15 who spoke with perfect D4 accents despite having never left Drogheda in their lives.

2. If you going to point out someone's failings you might aswell be accurate, while we're on the subject your attempts, you're (you are)
making attempts.

3. Nice response- cutting and such.

4.a) Certainly there is a perception that rugby players are better behaved than soccer players, is it true? I can't say as I haven't studied the behaviour of every soccer/rugby player on the planet. However I don't remember the last time an opposition player came up to offer his condolences when a player on the other team got injured (BOD and Justin Marshall) in a soccer match, or any incident where a player gave up a goal/try to tend to a possibly dangerously injured opposition player (Tana Umaga and Collin Charvis a few years back) in soccer.
Ok, SA in the apartheid era presumably, are you attempting in a Michael Moore-ish way to make a tenous connection between the fact that these horrible racist murderers were rugby players and that rugby had led them to perpetrate these acts?

4.b) Firstly and foremostly, careful about bringing the Brian murphy incident into this, that's a loaded issue and not really a road we want to go down, as well as it having little relevance here. I didn't see the Clongowes programme, if you could specify the year I might have a friend who could obtain it for me. Rugby does instill a discipline of fellowship, it is impossible to win a rugby match unless every last player is working as a team with everyone else.

[el tk]

Paragraph 1 - In football, there is an emphasis on skill in both defenders and attackers. A good, forward - give better examples than Ronaldo and Giggs, the former rarely beats his marker - The forward has the ball at his feet with no use of his hands to outwit the defender and, much more importantly, the defender has to use skill to deprive him of the ball - he cannot drag him down. There are footballing skills involved regarding BOTH players. Of course, if the defender fouls, then a freekick is awarded and, if it continues, cards are issued. The actual attempt to tackle with one leg only allowed, makes it more than half a battle.
Jumping on, dragging down, involving, sometimes, a NUMBER of players, on the player in possession, cannot be considered remotely as skillful. Even shirt pulling seems to be allowed.

Paragraph 2 - A ha! A variation on the "some fo my best friends are...." argument. Also, the final sentence? Are we being a tad defensive here??? Again, whether travel has worked wonders on me - predictable attempt at sarcasm. Let me just state this, since I follow a game which gives me the opportunity to visit far more places on the planet than the sport you're defending, I think there is some hope for old Hamish. Sadly, not in your case. :D

1. Dragging down a player simply doesn't work, if someone is coming at you with the pace of Rococoko or Sivivatu (both do 100m in under 10'6) trying to grab their jersey simply doesn't work, this is known as a '46A' tackle (i.e. stick out 10 fingers and hope it stops) it doesn't happen anymore as most teams wear skintight jerseys. The fast rugby player is also harder to stop as he has no ball at his feet to control and can therefore step either way at the drop of a hat (Jason Robinson has been known to change direction in mid-air).

2. Sure you can visit more places but whether you'd want to is another thing entirely and there are several places where soccer is basically non-existent as a sport. How many places you can visit is more than slightly irrelevant.

Another thing- rugby players are much more open to fans approaching them and talking to them, when was the last time you saw a bunch of English Premiership players (I consider this to be a more relevant comparison than eL) walking from their training ground to the stadium about 2 hours before the match and stopping to talk to anyone who approached them?