To super league or to not super league ...

[NeverFeltBetter]

All six English sides are withdrawing. It's over, for now.

Plenty of angry people calling for punitive action to the clubs in question, but I imagine that's a non-starter. Weirdly in a few weeks the CPL and EL might be won by teams that were involved!

[Eminence Grise]

The Times is reporting that one of the six English teams is having emergency discussions at executive level about backing out after the fan backlash. Clickbait or signs of hope?

You'd imagine it's probably Liverpool.


Liverpool and United are the biggest pushers for it.

Chelsea and City are now rumored to be pulling out.


BBC reporting that Chelsea are pulling out. This idea might be sunk.

Edit - Confirmed that City are gone too.

Edit #2 - All happening fast, reports that all 12 clubs are considering disbanding the whole idea. Some turn around from this morning!

Guardian live feed (https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-backlash-builds-against-breakaway-plan-live) suggesting that the City and Chelsea oligarch owners having interests in their clubs other than profit might not be coincidental to their crumbling; the rest are naked profiteers. Same feed, btw, reveals that Theresa May's former press officer was doing the PR for the dirty dozen. Or, doing it as badly as could be imagined. And coincidentally, Sajid Javid and Chuka Umunna were recently appointed to the bank that was funding the league (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-will-pour-400m-into-grassroots-football-says-new-chief) - so I suspect that Bojo's appetite for taking on the clubs might be tempered a little, given the level of ex-Westminster and especially Tory involvement (even if Javid and Umunna seem to have been peripheral) and now that there seems to be no need for political action. Why antagonise the money markets needlessly just for plebs' votes, after all? I hope I'm wrong.

I'm originally from Old Trafford. There's no way to express the shame and anger that the club literally a few streets from where I was born, in George Best's last season in the red, could treat this game of ours so despicably. But I don't for one minute think this is the end.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Reading the six statements, and I think Arsenal are the only ones to flat-out apologise, if that means anything to anyone. Remarkable 48 or so hours. Very pertinent thread here from one of the Soccernomics authors, on the nature of incompetence in football boardrooms: https://twitter.com/KuperSimon/status/1384587075115233284

[EatYerGreens]

The Times is reporting that one of the six English teams is having emergency discussions at executive level about backing out after the fan backlash. Clickbait or signs of hope?

You'd imagine it's probably Liverpool.

It was never going to be them, given their owners.

[mcgonigle]

As funny as it is I'm a bit disappointed that this ended so quickly. Was hoping for a long drawn out battle so that barstoolers would get a good look at what they are supporting. This will all be forgotten in a week and sofas across the country will be full for the weekend but not tuned into WLOI unfortunately.

[Kiki Balboa]

The dark part of me wanted it to last till the first game, with the English teams relegates, and the tournament becoming a massive flop.

Besides, everyone knows there is too much money at the top of world football (and even maybe in our league). The wealth gap between the super clubs and the rest is what is making football stale at the top level. The Coup to keep more money is really sickening/ pointless / dull / monotonous.

[redarmyfaction]

Raging it didn't happen, in an admittedly unscientific survey carried out by me today, 100% of respondents confirmed that they will stay affiliated to their respective franchise despite their franchise been involved.

[EatYerGreens]

Raging it didn't happen, in an admittedly unscientific survey carried out by me today, 100% of respondents confirmed that they will stay affiliated to their respective franchise despite their franchise been involved.

Of course they will. If fans of teams like Man United were really that bothered about the way their clubs were being run, or how fans were being treated, they'd have done something about it already (and I don't mean just wearing a green and yellow scarf for a while). But they clearly just don't care enough. They deserve everything they get.

[jbyrne]

Of course they will. If fans of teams like Man United were really that bothered about the way their clubs were being run, or how fans were being treated, they'd have done something about it already (and I don't mean just wearing a green and yellow scarf for a while). But they clearly just don't care enough. They deserve everything they get.

didn't they also form FC United of Manchester when the Glaziers behaviour became known?
seems like a pretty substantial action to take when they became so disillusioned.

[EatYerGreens]

didn't they also form FC United of Manchester when the Glaziers behaviour became known?
seems like a pretty substantial action to take when they became so disillusioned.

A small proportion of United fans did. FC United were getting in the region of 2,000 at games, whilst Old Trafford continued to sell out all its 76,000 seats.

And the gobsh'tes who support United in Ireland weren't the ones switching allegiance to an alternative fan-owned club.

Liverpool developed a couple of fan-owned alternatives = FC Liverpool and City of Liverpool FC. They each get a few hundred at games, whilst Anfield continues to sell out its 53,000 seats.

Again - if the fans were really that bothered about how their clubs were being run or how they were being treated, they'd have done something about it by now. There are ready-made alternatives for fans of Man U and Liverpool to do so - yet few take that option. They're not interested, despite all their whinging.

[MKMK]

To many its about the brand and not grass roots football.

[EatYerGreens]

To many its about the brand and not grass roots football.

Exactly. They'll make loads of excuses, but the bottom line is they don't want to watch games against Runcorn or Prescott Cables - even if it means being treated better and building something sustainable and attractive in the process. They're just not interested. Though you can be sure if FC United made it to the Football League they'd suddenly take an interest and tell everyone they used to go back in the day before they were big.

If you're still supporting Man U after the Glazers bought the cliub and saddled it with the debt from doing so etc etc, then you are just an empty commercial vessel. Doubly so if you're doing it in Ireland whilst turning your nose up at domestic football. You deserve everything bad that happens to 'your' club and to you as one of its consumers.

[da bishop]

Can anyone enlighten me on the actual debt these initial 12 ESL clubs have amassed given their desire to solve that problem with the formation of the now abandoned league.listening to 95fm here in Limerick this morning our obviously ill informed soccer correspondent reckoned on 70 billion.i would assume its around 3/3 billion?

[John83]

Can anyone enlighten me on the actual debt these initial 12 ESL clubs have amassed given their desire to solve that problem with the formation of the now abandoned league.listening to 95fm here in Limerick this morning our obviously ill informed soccer correspondent reckoned on 70 billion.i would assume its around 3/3 billion?
Ah, here. Read Madrid have around 0.9 billion (https://www.football-espana.net/2021/01/27/real-madrid-accounts-reveal-club-in-concerning-e901m-debt) in debt. Man Utd have half that (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/05/manchester-united-fiscal-results-debt-covid-pandemic). No way the twelve of them add up to any more than a few billion.

[EalingGreen]

Ah, here. Read Madrid have around 0.9 billion (https://www.football-espana.net/2021/01/27/real-madrid-accounts-reveal-club-in-concerning-e901m-debt) in debt. Man Utd have half that (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/05/manchester-united-fiscal-results-debt-covid-pandemic). No way the twelve of them add up to any more than a few billion.
Real Madrid are reportedly €900m in debt, have long been spending more than they bring in, have Covid losses still to account for, and need to find €570m to rebuild the Bernabeu (and we all know how reliable building estimates are!):
https://en.as.com/en/2020/12/21/football/1608583869_507998.html

Barcelona meanwhile, are reported to be €1.2bn in debt, are also overspending/Covid etc, and need to find €600m to revamp the Camp Nou (though they're said to have been forced to scale that back):
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/bc/barcelona-camp-nou-new-stadium-renovations-redevelopment-experience

While Atletico, whose balance sheet looks healthier and already have their own new stadium built, are €999m in debt:
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/atletico-madrid-debt-2019-2020-broadcast-advertising-revenues-la-liga
So they're not so worried - I mean, it's not as if they owe a billion...

Anyhow, that's the 3 biggest clubs in Spain, who hoover up a far bigger percentage of overall football revenue than other top league, and who between them owe €3bn+, with another €1bn+ to be found.

Over in Italy, Inter's Chinese owners are desperately scrambling to raise €200m of emergency funding just to keep the lights on until the end of the season:
https://www.ft.com/content/7fdc9a56-75c9-4101-b5c5-bf827a0e7b1d

Juve, despite winning Serie A every year since Adam was a lad, have lost money for the last 3 years, most recently €234m for a part-Covid season. This is despite selling players at a profit and always qualifying for the CL, a huge source of revenue for them (€449m for the last 5 years). Currently in 4th place, CL qualification for next season is not guaranteed. Their debt is just under €400m, with their total liabilities just over €900m, in short, they are hugely dependent on revenue from the CL and player sales:
https://www.juvefc.com/analysis-of-juventus-finances-highlights-two-major-conclusions/

While AC Milan did appear to be heavily in debt, though it looks as if their US owners may have wiped that? (Unsure).

Anyhow, with the big Spanish clubs all being in deep doodoo, and the Italian football finance model increasingly falling far behind England and Germany etc, it is obvious why their Big Six are/were desperate for this Superleague to save them.

[Mr A]

What football needs is mechanisms to protect clubs from themselves and others in terms of ongoing wages arms races. FFP and wage caps based on club's real ability to generate revenue are vital- not just at the top level but here as well. And where there are investors there should be rules to ensure they invest in the fabric of a club as well as the first team.

[Straightstory]

Guardian live feed (https://www.theguardian.com/football/live/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-backlash-builds-against-breakaway-plan-live) suggesting that the City and Chelsea oligarch owners having interests in their clubs other than profit might not be coincidental to their crumbling; the rest are naked profiteers. Same feed, btw, reveals that Theresa May's former press officer was doing the PR for the dirty dozen. Or, doing it as badly as could be imagined. And coincidentally, Sajid Javid and Chuka Umunna were recently appointed to the bank that was funding the league (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/20/european-super-league-will-pour-400m-into-grassroots-football-says-new-chief) - so I suspect that Bojo's appetite for taking on the clubs might be tempered a little, given the level of ex-Westminster and especially Tory involvement (even if Javid and Umunna seem to have been peripheral) and now that there seems to be no need for political action. Why antagonise the money markets needlessly just for plebs' votes, after all? I hope I'm wrong.

I'm originally from Old Trafford. There's no way to express the shame and anger that the club literally a few streets from where I was born, in George Best's last season in the red, could treat this game of ours so despicably. But I don't for one minute think this is the end.

Just to clarify - Chuka Umunna was a Labour MP - not a Tory.

[EatYerGreens]

Just to clarify - Chuka Umunna was a Labour MP - not a Tory.

He was technically an MP for 3 different parties in the space of about a year, but none of those was the Tories :D

[Eminence Grise]

Which is why I put ex-Westminster before Tory - really didn't have time to list Umunna's affiliations! Journeyman pro if ever there was one... But thanks for clarifying in case anyone was confused.

[Kiki Balboa]

What football needs is mechanisms to protect clubs from themselves and others in terms of ongoing wages arms races. FFP and wage caps based on club's real ability to generate revenue are vital- not just at the top level but here as well. And where there are investors there should be rules to ensure they invest in the fabric of a club as well as the first team.

The problem with that is it will make it more competitive , which is also what they dont want.

[EatYerGreens]

The problem with that is it will make it more competitive , which is also what they dont want.

I'd say it's more complex than that. It's easy to have salary caps etc in sports like American Football, as it's a closed market. If you don't like the wages on offer in the US, where are you going to go ? Football is the only truly global sport. Any league which brings in salary caps etc is just going to make itself less competitive in Europe, as players will gravitate to better money elsewhere - which neither the leagues nor the associations who run them want. Even club Rugby Union suffered this, despite being a sport which hardly any country plays professionally. England brought in salary restrictions, and that just led to some top players moving to France and Japan for better money (obviously the limited number of alternative pro leagues reduced the number of players this impacted). So without global rules on salary caps etc, any league introducing them on its own is just agreeing to make its teams relatively weaker and move the financial arms race elsewhere.

[El-Pietro]

I'd say it's more complex than that. It's easy to have salary caps etc in sports like American Football, as it's a closed market. If you don't like the wages on offer in the US, where are you going to go ? Football is the only truly global sport. Any league which brings in salary caps etc is just going to make itself less competitive in Europe, as players will gravitate to better money elsewhere - which neither the leagues nor the associations who run them want. Even club Rugby Union suffered this, despite being a sport which hardly any country plays professionally. England brought in salary restrictions, and that just led to some top players moving to France and Japan for better money (obviously the limited number of alternative pro leagues reduced the number of players this impacted). So without global rules on salary caps etc, any league introducing them on its own is just agreeing to make its teams relatively weaker and move the financial arms race elsewhere.

If the top 4 or 5 leagues agreed to a form of FFP or Salary cap together then it could work. The money on offer in the Premier League and top ends of La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and by PSG is liekly far and above what any other clubs worldwide could offer, with perhaps the exception of a handful of middle eastern or Chinese teams and those leagues or the MLS don't have the prestige that would draw the top players in their peak. If UEFA and the ECA agreed on a a real version of FFP and got the likes of PSG and Man City to actually agree to it and abide by it then it would work.

On the other hand, salary caps tend to benefit owners at the expense of players. Ticket prices etc don't go down.

[EatYerGreens]

If the top 4 or 5 leagues agreed to a form of FFP or Salary cap together then it could work. The money on offer in the Premier League and top ends of La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and by PSG is liekly far and above what any other clubs worldwide could offer, with perhaps the exception of a handful of middle eastern or Chinese teams and those leagues or the MLS don't have the prestige that would draw the top players in their peak. If UEFA and the ECA agreed on a a real version of FFP and got the likes of PSG and Man City to actually agree to it and abide by it then it would work.

On the other hand, salary caps tend to benefit owners at the expense of players. Ticket prices etc don't go down.

Firstly - I'd be surprised if all 5 of Europe's top leagues could agree to such a thing at the same time. Secondly- if they did that would probably see a crazy situation appear whereby the rich people who are currently priced put of buying top clubs in the main European leagues would love it, and switch target to the main club in smaller leagues where they could use the absence of the salary cap to propel themselves through Europe. Via clubs like Benfica, Ajax, Anderlecht, Salzburg, Celtic/Rangers, Malmo etc. Thirdly - it would undoubtedly see an exodus of top talent from the major European leagues to Asia, the US and South America instead to maximise their wages. Their agents would be actively pushing for this. Which would also have implications on the international performances of European nations too.

You can't effectively bring in salary restrictions in only one region within a global sport.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A properly implemented FFP is about the best bet you have there, and that's incredibly imperfect.

[EalingGreen]

I'd say it's more complex than that. It's easy to have salary caps etc in sports like American Football, as it's a closed market. If you don't like the wages on offer in the US, where are you going to go ? Football is the only truly global sport. Any league which brings in salary caps etc is just going to make itself less competitive in Europe, as players will gravitate to better money elsewhere - which neither the leagues nor the associations who run them want. Even club Rugby Union suffered this, despite being a sport which hardly any country plays professionally. England brought in salary restrictions, and that just led to some top players moving to France and Japan for better money (obviously the limited number of alternative pro leagues reduced the number of players this impacted). So without global rules on salary caps etc, any league introducing them on its own is just agreeing to make its teams relatively weaker and move the financial arms race elsewhere.
Don't always (ever? :cool:) agree with you, but you have that spot on.

[EalingGreen]

If the top 4 or 5 leagues agreed to a form of FFP or Salary cap together then it could work. The money on offer in the Premier League and top ends of La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and by PSG is liekly far and above what any other clubs worldwide could offer, with perhaps the exception of a handful of middle eastern or Chinese teams and those leagues or the MLS don't have the prestige that would draw the top players in their peak.There's your problem right there.

These leagues are in competition with each other, meaning that even if 4 of the big five leagues agreed to a wage cap (and it was not unlawful), then the fifth would see this as an opportunity to hoover up all the best players in Europe for far less than they would normally have to pay. (Man City and PSG would love that!)

Besides which, the bottom line of the wage slip (i.e. take home amount) is always more important than the top line. Italy, for example, recently introduced a law meaning that footballers now only half to pay half the normal amount of income tax on their earnings. Which explains a load of recent signings, from superstars like Ronaldo and Zlatan, to decent players like Ramsey and Eriksson, right down to average or past-it players like Chris Smalling and Ashley Young.

And that's before you got clubs eg doing a Rooney i.e. where half of his initial salary at Derby was for coaching, and so outside the FFP rules; and/or paying disguised salaries (see eg Saracens RFC); and/or hiding it in the Cayman Islands.


If UEFA and the ECA agreed on a a real version of FFP and got the likes of PSG and Man City to actually agree to it and abide by it then it would work.

There's that pesky "if" again.



On the other hand, salary caps tend to benefit owners at the expense of players. Ticket prices etc don't go down.
Fair dues, you got both those right.

For while everyone fixated on the lack of Promotion and Relegation in the proposed SL, what they didn't spot was the other crucial element of the American Sports Franchising model, the salary cap.

And I have a sneaky feeling that that may have been behind all those players coming out on the Monday to oppose it - the PFA will have spotted it straightaway on Sunday evening, and got on the phone to their members at Anfield and OT etc.

[EalingGreen]

(If I may quote my own post)



I have a sneaky feeling that [a salary cap] may have been behind all those players coming out on the Monday to oppose it - the PFA will have spotted it straightaway on Sunday evening, and got on the phone to their members at Anfield and OT etc.


"Burnley captain Ben Mee said the news of the breakaway 'shocked' him and his team-mates. A meeting scheduled between the captains of Premier League teams to discuss the issue was cancelled after the English teams withdrew.

'We were going to have a meeting on Wednesday but, thankfully, it wasn't necessary because the fans took action and I think owners realised what a mistake they had made,' he told BBC Radio 5 Live."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56845861

Footballers don't usually get involved in the politics (small "p") of the game, unless it involves their pay packet.

[pineapple stu]

That's an interesting angle I hadn't considered before.

If footballers don't want a Super League because it'll impact their bargaining rights, how will a Super League ever happen? Or how big a bargaining chip is it?

[EatYerGreens]

That's an interesting angle I hadn't considered before.

If footballers don't want a Super League because it'll impact their bargaining rights, how will a Super League ever happen? Or how big a bargaining chip is it?

Simple really. It could still happen because it wouldn't be for players to decide otherwise. They don't have the power to prevent it. They're the weakest power brokers in the situation (vs owners, fans, associations, governments).

[NeverFeltBetter]

What do people think of what happened at Old Trafford over the weekend? Some very angry people in that fanbase clearly. The attack on the police officer was obviously going too far, but do fans have a right to invade stadiums in that manner?

I'll admit it was amusing seeing elements of the MSM - BBC especially - veer sharply from "fan power!" a few weeks ago to "this has gone too far now, back in your box".

[sbgawa]

I think the fans (or legacy fans if you will ) are deluded if they think the owners could give a hoot about their protests.
The Glaziers will have been enjoying brunch and the prospect of the 2024 CL revised format adding x% to the net worth of Man Utd as a worst case scenario.
Bit inconvenient not to watch to be able to watch the match but ho hum.
If a few thousand of them want to boycott Utd then happy days more room for the Tourist day trippers from all parts of the UK and Southern Ireland who spend more in the shop.
The sight of the eejits with their 50% + 1 signs was hilarious in the extreme, do they think the Glazers will give away the club to the fans :) mind you considering the behaviour as an IQ indicator , maybe they do think it.

Fans (particularly the legacy sort) are an irrelevance to the Economics of the biggest clubs now.

[John83]

Disrupting matches will get attention.

The violence was too far, but that'll happen if you get a bunch of riled up idiots together.

Their complaints have merit in the wider scheme of things - I am particularly revolted by the idea of a literally closed shop 'elite' league with no relegation mechanism - but it's hard to have sympathy with people who've cheered on their club's conversion into a multinational merchandising business when they complain that it no longer acts like a local football club.

Probably their best bet is government intervention, which could be a really populist move. I doubt it's likely, but I don't know.

[EatYerGreens]

I think the fans (or legacy fans if you will ) are deluded if they think the owners could give a hoot about their protests.
The Glaziers will have been enjoying brunch and the prospect of the 2024 CL revised format adding x% to the net worth of Man Utd as a worst case scenario.
Bit inconvenient not to watch to be able to watch the match but ho hum.
If a few thousand of them want to boycott Utd then happy days more room for the Tourist day trippers from all parts of the UK and Southern Ireland who spend more in the shop.
The sight of the eejits with their 50% + 1 signs was hilarious in the extreme, do they think the Glazers will give away the club to the fans :) mind you considering the behaviour as an IQ indicator , maybe they do think it.

Fans (particularly the legacy sort) are an irrelevance to the Economics of the biggest clubs now.

I genuinely doubt the Glazers watch the games. Maybe key ones where there is something (i.e. money) on the line, but not a match who's result has little or no bearing on Man United's season. They're busy people with no natural interest in the sport (and probably only limited understanding of its rules). Why would they bother ?

[sbgawa]

I genuinely doubt the Glazers watch the games. Maybe key ones where there is something (i.e. money) on the line, but not a match who's result has little or no bearing on Man United's season. They're busy people with no natural interest in the sport (and probably only limited understanding of its rules). Why would they bother ?

Your probably right, i was only really making the point about it might have spoilt their brunch to illustrate how little the impact would be, probably didn't even spoil brunch.

[Eminence Grise]

The sight of the eejits with their 50% + 1 signs was hilarious in the extreme, do they think the Glazers will give away the club to the fans

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the German 50+1 model about weighing voting rights in favour of the fans on defined matters rather than share ownership?

Legal protest creates drama, which shines a spotlight -an unnatractive one where potential sponsors, regulators and police are concerned. Repeated protests would cause loss of match day income, maybe points deductions for being unable to fulfil fixtures, maybe further loss of income caused by shipping one or two league places, uncertainly from sponsors that their logos would be visible, an increased policing and stewarding bill - no one factor massively damaging on its own but cumulatively eating into revenues.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

I think the fans (or legacy fans if you will ) are deluded if they think the owners could give a hoot about their protests.
The Glaziers will have been enjoying brunch and the prospect of the 2024 CL revised format adding x% to the net worth of Man Utd as a worst case scenario.
Bit inconvenient not to watch to be able to watch the match but ho hum.
If a few thousand of them want to boycott Utd then happy days more room for the Tourist day trippers from all parts of the UK and Southern Ireland who spend more in the shop.
The sight of the eejits with their 50% + 1 signs was hilarious in the extreme, do they think the Glazers will give away the club to the fans :) mind you considering the behaviour as an IQ indicator , maybe they do think it.

Fans (particularly the legacy sort) are an irrelevance to the Economics of the biggest clubs now.

They probably are but certainly wouldn’t see any issues with fans making their voices heard. Reading the amount of money the owners have taken out of Man United would sicken you. Unfortunately always a couple of idiots who go too far.

[BonnieShels]

Porto have already said they aren't interested. Benfica maybe? A team from the Netherlands would probably be a high value target alright. Not so sure about the Old Firm myself, I think we (the Irish I mean) tend to overestimate their importance to the footballing landscape. I'm thinking somewhere like Red Bull Salzburg or Dynamo Kiev would be more likely to be invited.

A few years back Ajax were being talked down in the Champions League as if they were some sort of minnow. AJAX!

They're a high value target only in the sense of their academy output.

The absolute cheek of how this proposal had been presented.
TBH, I was very miffed that it ended so quickly as it did. I was hoping it ended up being some sort of avalanche in European football. Sometimes you just need to see the world burn.

[Bucket]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OutOfContextLOI/status/1384929928509116418
Just saw this now!

[EatYerGreens]

https://mobile.twitter.com/OutOfContextLOI/status/1384929928509116418
Just saw this now!

They'll be gutted by the poor reception the ESL received recently :(

[NeverFeltBetter]

Springing back to life, maybe, on foot of EU court ruling today: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/1221/1423199-european-court-rules-in-favour-of-super-league/

Some details of what is being proposed here: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/1221/1423198-esl-organisers-announce-proposals-for-new-competitions/

Free broadcast of games an eye-raiser. But looks like the EPL clubs are begging off already.

[John83]

I read someone comment on reddit that the English clubs are now restrained from joining such a league by legislation there. That ring a bell for anyone?

[A N Mouse]

I read someone comment on reddit that the English clubs are now restrained from joining such a league by legislation there. That ring a bell for anyone?

The guy from the supporters assocation seem to think so, in the article


FSA chief executive Kevin Miles said: "As our friends at Football Supporters Europe point out - there is no place for an ill-conceived breakaway super league.

"Supporters, players and clubs have already made clear they don't want a stitched-up competition - we all want to see the trigger pulled on the walking dead monstrosity that is the European Zombie League.

"While the corpse might continue to twitch in the European courts, no English side will be joining. The incoming independent regulator will block any club from competing in domestic competition if they join a breakaway super league.


Anyone else surprised at the decision given the mood music and last years brief?

There a lot to untangle but initial take is basically football is a business until it's not. Association et al still have say over what goes, but the they must be clear and transparent.

Maybe expect sperate entities for governance/competitions/regulations?

[culloty82]

I read someone comment on reddit that the English clubs are now restrained from joining such a league by legislation there. That ring a bell for anyone?

According to the Beeb's live-ticker update on developments (12:35), it seems the Tories plan to table legislation which would make a breakaway illegal, but can't see how that would work if clubs were determined to leave, and it seems the new proposal would maintain domestic competitions:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/67783796

In any case, Man United, Atletico Madrid and Bayern have thrown cold water on their involvement for now, at least.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm actually listening to a webinar at 3pm today with a bunch of sports lawyers who'll be explaining today's ruling. Most TV and media are reporting it as clear victory for the Super League protagonists and a defeat for UEFA. The headlines would suggest so, but a closer look actually reveal's otherwise, according to Bray's finest Miguel Delaney here https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european-super-league-ruling-uefa-laws-b2467796.html

https://x.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1737814543705817342?s=20

"The answer [to whether a Super League can now happen] is that it remains complicated, and all advantage still lies with Uefa, as well as sporting governing bodies generally. The Super League is still subject to Uefa’s authorisation rules and procedures, but those rules just have to be more transparent. Clubs will also have to be more involved in decision-making. Put bluntly: the Super League would still have to get permission to set up, if their clubs want to stay in the system, which they have already said they do.

The end result of all of this was that Uefa have to amend and update their rules on the pre-authorisation of new competitions, and make them compliant with European Union law. Uefa was rebuked for the procedure of its laws rather than the substance. The old rules, which are in the process of changing, were criticised. That doesn’t mean it was wrong to have such rules.

An irony is that those regulations were already addressed in June 2022. The court, however, could only rule on the situation as it was presented. It was already out of date. The rules just need to be worked on.

The Super League, meanwhile, never actually tested those rules. They never applied for authorisation."

[Stuttgart88]

Some details of what is being proposed here: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023/1221/1423198-esl-organisers-announce-proposals-for-new-competitions/
Nothing in it for LOI clubs!

I wonder does it make it more likely that x-border leagues can be approved under UEFA's auspices though. I'd expect yes, because of the principles of objective legitimacy and proportionality.

The objective is surely legitimately justifiable on sporting grounds (e.g., a big capital city like Dublin could now aim for a higher tier for one or more of its clubs). UEFA's rationale for allowing some x-border leagues but not others would have to be transparent, non-discriminatory and proportional. It could still align with the important concept of the European Model of Sport – in fact it could actually strengthen the pyramid and allow for elite football’s revenues to be shared downstream more naturally.

[EatYerGreens]

According to the Beeb's live-ticker update on developments (12:35), it seems the Tories plan to table legislation which would make a breakaway illegal, but can't see how that would work if clubs were determined to leave, and it seems the new proposal would maintain domestic competitions:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/67783796

In any case, Man United, Atletico Madrid and Bayern have thrown cold water on their involvement for now, at least.

With the UK outside of the EU, there will be no need for the British Government to worry about EU law in this matter. For example, they could legislate to prevent any club that operates within its territory from joining a breakaway league. The clubs could then still break away, but they wouldn't be allowed to play their games in Britain any more if they did so. This is what the Wesh FA did when it originally set up the League of Wales in the 1990s, before falling foul of EU law over it all.

The 'free to watch' but is interesting. Broadcast rights are the big money spinner - both domestically annd internationally. So even if it was only free to air in the markets where participating teams came from, you'd suspect that that would change over time. Clubs themselves will want to maximise TV money, if nothing else.