Republic of Ireland V Luxembourg - Saturday, 27th March 2021 - World Cup Qualifier

[tetsujin1979]

Luxembourg followed up that draw with France by losing 8-0 to Sweden in their very next game. Yes, they have improved, but they still concede goals - two clean sheets in their previous twenty games - and we never looked like scoring against them.
I mentioned Kenny's reluctance to use substitutes in an episode of the podcast, the majority under his reign have come after the 80th minute, and again last night when we hadn't scored and didn't look like scoring, Parrott and Molumby didn't come on until the 88th minute.

[seanfhear]

Luxembourg followed up that draw with France by losing 8-0 to Sweden in their very next game. Yes, they have improved, but they still concede goals - two clean sheets in their previous twenty games - and we never looked like scoring against them.
I mentioned Kenny's reluctance to use substitutes in an episode of the podcast, the majority under his reign have come after the 80th minute, and again last night when we hadn't scored and didn't look like scoring, Parrott and Molumby didn't come on until the 88th minute.
Collins was unlucky not to score . Browne should have scored with what was a great chance.

Should Long have crossed that ball very late in the game. The TV did not replay that Long “ effort “ ( which was probably lucky for Long ). On one view it looked awful play from Long. Long and McClean did not produce much. Its a pity that McClean cannot cross a ball ~ he is hardly going to start now ?

Do some of our players get carried away with themselves after reaching a certain level ? I can never understand how Aiden McGeady never got better at crossing the ball or protecting possession. Really, How can a full time professional not improve these sort of weakness’s in their game. I am just using McGeady as an example. Do some of our players just think they have made it and not improve. I would say that Roy Keane’s Passing improved a lot after he went to Man Utd. The truly good / great players keep trying to improve all the time. Is there something in the Irish psyche ( generally, not everyone ) that just does not commit to further improvement ?

[JimEire123]

Serbia lose or drop points away to Azerbaijan, Portugal and we beat them then we’re still in this by a long way.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure Collins could have done much more with that chance. He anticipated the cross and got a good contact. The keeper got a bit lucky as the ball just hit him as he was trying to recover his position. To score Colins would have needed to glance the ball towards the far post which is hard when you're diving in the way he did.

That late Long chance: had he squared it across the 6 yard box for Collins I'm pretty sure Collins was offside.

[seanfhear]

I'm not sure Collins could have done much more with that chance. He anticipated the cross and got a good contact. The keeper got a bit lucky as the ball just hit him as he was trying to recover his position. To score Colins would have needed to glance the ball towards the far post which is hard when you're diving in the way he did.

That late Long chance: had he squared it across the 6 yard box for Collins I'm pretty sure Collins was offside.
A lucky save by the goalkeeper but one that goalkeepers get credit for. I suppose goalkeepers get blamed for a lot so they are going to claim lucky saves as brilliance = they might as well.

Cheers for clearing that up about Long !

[Bungle]

Glad to see names from the past being mentioned by someone earlier - Lawrenson, Beglin, Whelan. Because we really need to go back in history to try to solve the current problems. Hopefully, a few on here can remember back to the Johnny Giles era. I remember standing on the terraces at Lansdowne and cursing Giles. My angst was due to Giles's penchant for playing possession football or trying to at least. We were slow and deliberate and other continental sides were years ahead of us in their development. Giles knew what he wanted to do, but could not implement his plan and no manager since has tried to get an Irish team to play proper football. That is until Stephen Kenny, 45 years later. Looks like Kenny will fail just like Giles. In my opinion, the reason neither man can implement possession football in their teams is that our players have never been taught technique and close control in crowded areas of the pitch, because there was no Irish coach ever taught that himself and consequently he could not teach that to his players. And the 64K question is, what Irish coach today is versed in those methods? Answer there isn't anybody. I have offered a solution on here for many years, and that is for the FAI to employ several developmental coaches for our kids, from areas that have historically played proper constructive football (South America for example). Stephen Kenny may not be long more in the job, but ultimately he is a lot smarter than most fans who keep calling for a change of manager and totally ignore the problems which beset Irish football.

Not sure if you're being a smartarse towards me, but chill out mate.

I mentioned those three players in the context of it being said that it's harder for Irish players to break through now than then. In my opinion, that isn't the case. Bob Paisley and the boot room knew great players, no more than Pep or Jurgen Klopp today would.

We aren't producing players of that quality anymore, but if we had a conveyor belt of Jason Knight quality coming through every year, I would be very happy. That would eventually make us a good side.

We need to look at similar nations and see what they are doing and how we can having something more sustainable than hoping for a decent crop once every decade or hoping that Troy Parrott, Evan Ferguson or Zefi can be top class to keep us competitive. The Shamrock Rovers and Bohs academy looks sustainable, in that the quality of players is very good coming through from what I've seen. That should positively impact the league and ultimately the national team.

[Trequartista20]

Luxembourg followed up that draw with France by losing 8-0 to Sweden in their very next game. Yes, they have improved, but they still concede goals - two clean sheets in their previous twenty games - and we never looked like scoring against them.
I mentioned Kenny's reluctance to use substitutes in an episode of the podcast, the majority under his reign have come after the 80th minute, and again last night when we hadn't scored and didn't look like scoring, Parrott and Molumby didn't come on until the 88th minute.

Wasn't Luxembourg's win last night their first competitive away victory for 13 years? They're only just in top 100 nations in FIFA's rankings.

They also had more shots on target than us.

The more one thinks about at this the worse it looks.

[ifk101]

I mentioned Kenny's reluctance to use substitutes in an episode of the podcast, the majority under his reign have come after the 80th minute, and again last night when we hadn't scored and didn't look like scoring, Parrott and Molumby didn't come on until the 88th minute.

Didn't take long to check this and minority is the word you are looking for. Kenny has made 44 substitutions, of which 33 were before the 80th minute and 11 after the 80th. 25% of substitutions are after the 80th minute.

[shakermaker1982]

I’m still in shock at how bad we were last night.

I think that result hurts me more than the 5-2 versus Cyprus. We still had some good players back in 2006 and there was always a hope that bringing in a better manager could fix things.

Now?

I fear we are going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

The senior players have regressed, the youngsters aren’t really making any waves at club level and we are left with a coaching team that seem to be completely out of their depth at this level. The FAI doesn’t have a pot to pi$$ in so we are probably stuck with them until 2024.

[mark12345]

7 and ½ years ago Norn Iron lost 3 2 to Luxembourg. 2 years later they qualified for the Euros. Did he go 18 games without a win or something after he took over?

My immediate thoughts on waking up this morning is I don't see that changing the manager will help this time. I think this result has been coming for a while. McCarthy got out of jail away to Gibraltar in a terrible performance against a much worse team. Not to excuse it, but this is a Luxembourg team that drew with France in Paris and have players playing at decent clubs around Europe. They are not the butcher, baker and candlestick maker players that they used to be.

That being said I can't get over the substitutions last night. This is where Kenny lost me. But it also shows that we absolutely 100% have to move on from the more "experienced" players. McClean, Brady and Long were all disgraceful when they came on, as was Hendrick against Serbia. We need to cut bait with these players now. This means we are going to have to go with players who are not ready and some who might never be. Wales did this with players pulled from youth and reserve teams in the hope that the international experience will help them at club level. We have a bumpy road ahead but we have no choice now. These so called experienced players have failed under multiple managers.

I

Absolutely correct Razor. This result has indeed been coming for a long time (how many times have we been played off the park by so called inferior nations under Mick, MON and Trap). And changing the manager will absolutely not help because it hasn't helped all those times we've tried it. The barometer for me are two nations of similar ranking - Finland and Iceland. Both came to the Aviva in recent times and played us off the park. How did they improve so much while we regressed? That's the question we need to be asking ourslves. What did they do that we didn't.

[Trequartista20]

7 and ½ years ago Norn Iron lost 3 2 to Luxembourg. 2 years later they qualified for the Euros. Did he go 18 games without a win or something after he took over?

My immediate thoughts on waking up this morning is I don't see that changing the manager will help this time. I think this result has been coming for a while. McCarthy got out of jail away to Gibraltar in a terrible performance against a much worse team. Not to excuse it, but this is a Luxembourg team that drew with France in Paris and have players playing at decent clubs around Europe. They are not the butcher, baker and candlestick maker players that they used to be.

That being said I can't get over the substitutions last night. This is where Kenny lost me. But it also shows that we absolutely 100% have to move on from the more "experienced" players. McClean, Brady and Long were all disgraceful when they came on, as was Hendrick against Serbia. We need to cut bait with these players now. This means we are going to have to go with players who are not ready and some who might never be. Wales did this with players pulled from youth and reserve teams in the hope that the international experience will help them at club level. We have a bumpy road ahead but we have no choice now. These so called experienced players have failed under multiple managers.


I agree with this. There's little to lose now. Realistically, qualification already looks beyond us.

[mark12345]

I’m still in shock at how bad we were last night.

I think that result hurts me more than the 5-2 versus Cyprus. We still had some good players back in 2006 and there was always a hope that bringing in a better manager could fix things.

Now?

I fear we are going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

The senior players have regressed, the youngsters aren’t really making any waves at club level and we are left with a coaching team that seem to be completely out of their depth at this level. The FAI doesn’t have a pot to pi$$ in so we are probably stuck with them until 2024.

A coaching team that are out of their depth? In what way? Stephen Kenny has been successful at most managerial stints he's been involved with and almost made history with the U-21's. Anthony Barry is so well thought of in coaching that Chelsea sees fit to have him train their players. I think you need to turn your attention to the players. Apart from Coleman who has had a great career at Everton and Brady and Long who've enjoyed a modicum of success at their clubs, who on the pitch last night could be tagged as being a success in their playing careers? If you want to say that Kenny does not have the respect of the players, that's another story, but neither he nor Barry are out of their depth with this mediocre bunch of players.

[mark12345]

Not being a smartarse. Just took your cue from players you mentioned in a bygone era to compare Johnny Giles's style and ambitions to what Kenny is doing now.

[mark12345]

I think to go down this route would show we've learnt absolutely nothing from the past 20 years.

We can't rely on other countries to develop our players. Doesn't matter if that country is England or Spain or Luxembourg.

A country our size has to have a proper domestic setup to develop players up to the age of 21/22. Most other countries do. We don't. That's a huge issue.

Rovers in fairness to them are starting to put in a place a proper academy structure and they're starting to reap the benefits of that (as is the national team)

Dundalk, the other big side here at the moment, haven't put anything in place with their Euro millions and are now signing whatever random foreigners they can find. It's their money of course, and unlike most LoI sides they've actually earned it, but it's foundations of sand and will go nowhere in the medium term. Cork have already gone down that route it seems.

Every other country in Europe uses its domestic league to develop players for its national team. We don't. We instead have a 19th-century league structure which encourages big fish in small ponds. The league has no money, the FAI have no money, and the general public have no interest. While that stays, we're going to continue going backwards.

Sending players to Spain instead of England won't change that.

Best post of the lot! You are so right - we cannot expect other countries to develop our talent. We need to do it ourselves. That's the starting point and always has been. Our domestic clubs should have been doing this decades ago but, as you say, we have a 19th century system in place. Think Croatia (population 4 million) Denmark (5 million). It can be done by smaller nations if the coaching system is right.

[boovidge]

Best post of the lot! You are so right - we cannot expect other countries to develop our talent. We need to do it ourselves. That's the starting point and always has been. Our domestic clubs should have been doing this decades ago but, as you say, we have a 19th century system in place. Think Croatia (population 4 million) Denmark (5 million). It can be done by smaller nations if the coaching system is right.

These countries benefit from having relatively well supported domestic leagues with regular qualification to UEFA competitions. It's been said a million times but if Irish people don't watch Irish football we're always going to be dependent on the UK to bring our players through

[shakermaker1982]

A coaching team that are out of their depth? In what way? Stephen Kenny has been successful at most managerial stints he's been involved with and almost made history with the U-21's. Anthony Barry is so well thought of in coaching that Chelsea sees fit to have him train their players. I think you need to turn your attention to the players. Apart from Coleman who has had a great career at Everton and Brady and Long who've enjoyed a modicum of success at their clubs, who on the pitch last night could be tagged as being a success in their playing careers? If you want to say that Kenny does not have the respect of the players, that's another story, but neither he nor Barry are out of their depth with this mediocre bunch of players.

MON and Trap used to blame the quality of the players at their disposal. The likes of Andrews were quick to judge those statements & stick the boot in. I remember him going on a rant after one of our games 2 or 3 years ago- the players didn’t know what they were doing, they didn’t know their roles etc etc. Well we looked clueless last night.

Good luck to Barry, Lampard brought him into their set up last summer. Tuchel might have other ideas once the season ends. I hope he is a good coach and he improves us. He’s not been long since with the Irish set up so too early to judge but Andrews is the assistant manager & in post from very early on. Based on what has been served up so far do they look like they belong at this level?

[pineapple stu]

These countries benefit from having relatively well supported domestic leagues with regular qualification to UEFA competitions. It's been said a million times but if Irish people don't watch Irish football we're always going to be dependent on the UK to bring our players through


Crowds in Croatia are very similar to here.

What they do benefit from is significant transfer fee income caused by (a) good coaching and (b) not selling players at 16

Both those factors help drive extra European income of course

[Stuttgart88]

Denmark’s domestic TV deal is huge. I don’t know how they afford it. There isn’t GAA to compete with for players, resources etc and pro rugby also for crowds and tv money. And Denmark also plays handball which in my opinion is great for teaching the spatial awareness needed for football. Not to mention an economic model that values public sector and sport.

[Bungle]

Not being a smartarse. Just took your cue from players you mentioned in a bygone era to compare Johnny Giles's style and ambitions to what Kenny is doing now.

Fair enough Mark.

I think the Irish team is a poisoned chalice of a job. Too many fans remember when we were highly competitive with a team full of top class players. Our expectations are inflated so much, although I do think that even with such a mediocre bunch, we should be able to beat Luxemburg. One and a bit good performances in his reign - Slovakia we were very good and maybe a good 20 minutes or so against Serbia just isn't good enough.

[Insidetherock]

Best post of the lot! You are so right - we cannot expect other countries to develop our talent. We need to do it ourselves. That's the starting point and always has been. Our domestic clubs should have been doing this decades ago but, as you say, we have a 19th century system in place. Think Croatia (population 4 million) Denmark (5 million). It can be done by smaller nations if the coaching system is right.

What coaching?

Let's get real. 90% of schoolboy coaching in Ireland, is done by parents who

a. are looking after their own kids

or

b. begged to do it by clubs because they've no one else to do it.

In many cases, a coach gets 1 hr a week for half the year on an astro pitch, where the first ten minutes is putting down cones for drills, and the last five minutes is picking them up again.

Then you have the mini Jose Mourinhos.. lads who watch the Sky Sport analysis on Monday Night Football.. and try to implement it with a pile of under 10's on Wednesday night.

I was at one club, where a lunatic of a coach brought in an u12 girls team, 10/11 y olds remember, to watch a tactical analysis of Real Madrid v Barca the weekend before.

Then we have the Kennedy Cup regime.. players picked on the basis of what club they play with.. or don't

Coaches from bigger clubs getting involved, so they can scout and cherry pick players from smaller clubs. Smaller clubs not sending players to Kennedy Cup trials because they don't want them cherry picked

I'll stop now, because this is probably for a different thread

But cut out talking about underage coaching in Ireland

[pineapple stu]

On that topic, I thought this was an interesting article by Miguel Delaney - https://migueldelaney.com/2014/10/08/the-kids-arent-alright-the-real-problem-with-irish-football-part-one/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

It's 6 years old now, and I'd say not a lot has changed in that time. The national underage leagues go to u13 now, but I think some players prefer the old clubs still.

But the comment there about how Irish players don't fare well in England because of their poor coaching probably helps explain why so few players have come through in recent years. It's a huge issue

[jbyrne]

we must be doing something right given the relative success of our underage teams the last few years. mostly home grown players too. covid and kenny going to the seniors cost our u21s qualification

[Abbeyman]

We have to face reality whilst we say football is the most played game in Ireland are many of the more talented youngsters particularly outside of Dublin still picking GAA first and Rugby is also a lot more popular regionally than it used be .
In most other countries football is by a country mile the chosen sport of the most talented youngsters . Where would we be If we didn’t have the sons and grandsons of the Irish that emigrated to England who wouldn’t have GAA or much rugby as a distraction .
Too much competition in this country for talented youngsters who are good at 3 or 4 sports .

[Insidetherock]

we must be doing something right given the relative success of our underage teams the last few years. mostly home grown players too. covid and kenny going to the seniors cost our u21s qualification

It will come right eventually because at least most of the better underage players are going to LOI underage set ups earlier.. but it'll take a decade to come to fruition

A bigger change may come from Brexit, with players not moving now until after 18, and the new coronavirus limits on spending at League 1 and 2 clubs in England

[Bielsa´s irish]

I say we end this process unless he resigns, he must play only the kids, to get capped gain experience, yesterday was unacceptable result and performance

[jbyrne]

I say we end this process unless he resigns, he must play only the kids, to get capped gain experience, yesterday was unacceptable result and performance

so ditch coleman, egan, randolph and to a lesser extent browne? could also make a case for doherty and brady if he can get his full fitness back. we dont have anywhere near a team of promising "kids" yet

[liamoo11]

we must be doing something right given the relative success of our underage teams the last few years. mostly home grown players too. covid and kenny going to the seniors cost our u21s qualification

Not sure that's true. Kenny's 21s post in Iceland which was a poor result.

[Bielsa´s irish]

so ditch coleman, egan, randolph and to a lesser extent browne? could also make a case for doherty and brady if he can get his full fitness back. we dont have anywhere near a team of promising "kids" yet

the thing is the motivation , and the pandemia, the senior players may retire sooner, It is a plausibleb scenario, if hes gonna built for the future, lets keep egan coleman randolph and mccarthy and the rest under 26 years old

[jbyrne]

Not sure that's true. Kenny's 21s post in Iceland which was a poor result.

not just the loss of kenny as manager. lost players to the seniors for vital qualifiers due to covid. in any event it was our bests 21s campaign in ages. u19s finals appearance in 2019 too

[Demesne Lad]

Well said! (Mark1234)
I've been thinking about the number of LOI 'stars' who went to Britain as adults and didn't really succeed: Forrester, Towell, Boyle, McMillan, Burke, etc. It seems now that even those who get to play regularly in the EFL Championship are lacking in some of the technical skills. So bringing in coaches at 'grass roots' level, from countries where close control, keeping the ball down when shooting, and dribbling (remember that?) are valued, would be a major step in the right direction.

[tetsujin1979]

Didn't take long to check this and minority is the word you are looking for. Kenny has made 44 substitutions, of which 33 were before the 80th minute and 11 after the 80th. 25% of substitutions are after the 80th minute.
thanks for the clarification on this. Of Kenny's 44 substitutions, the average time has been on 70 minutes, although the three injury enforced substitutions (Long V Wales on 24m, Egan V England on 13m, and Doherty against Luxembourg at half time) skew this a little. The only ones that have made any sort of impact on the game were Robbie Brady against Bulgaria, and Collins and Long against Serbia.

Whatever Kenny's Plan A has been, it hasn't been working, and of all the changes he's made, only three have made any kind of difference to the game.

[mark12345]

What coaching?

Let's get real. 90% of schoolboy coaching in Ireland, is done by parents who

a. are looking after their own kids

or

b. begged to do it by clubs because they've no one else to do it.

In many cases, a coach gets 1 hr a week for half the year on an astro pitch, where the first ten minutes is putting down cones for drills, and the last five minutes is picking them up again.

Then you have the mini Jose Mourinhos.. lads who watch the Sky Sport analysis on Monday Night Football.. and try to implement it with a pile of under 10's on Wednesday night.

I was at one club, where a lunatic of a coach brought in an u12 girls team, 10/11 y olds remember, to watch a tactical analysis of Real Madrid v Barca the weekend before.

Then we have the Kennedy Cup regime.. players picked on the basis of what club they play with.. or don't

Coaches from bigger clubs getting involved, so they can scout and cherry pick players from smaller clubs. Smaller clubs not sending players to Kennedy Cup trials because they don't want them cherry picked

I'll stop now, because this is probably for a different thread

But cut out talking about underage coaching in Ireland

My vision is of a poor village in some South American country with 7 and 8-year-olds playing football. It was from those type of beginnings that every megastar from Pele to Alexi Sanchez was produced. And it took, crucially, the involvement of some parent/coach who taught these kids the skills of the trade. There was no money involved and little or no facilities. I think you get the picture. Why can't we reproduce that in Ireland? We can't produce it because there is no one in Ireland, that I know of at least, with those type of skills to teach to kids that age. So we need to import them and pay them rather than wasting money FAI style.

[seanfhear]

Maybe we need street football again. Is that possible ?

[Stuttgart88]

Was the performance really any worse than, say, Gibraltar at home under Mick? All much of a muchness really. And Mick had a better starting XI to pick from. The result shouldn't really surprise any of us. Coleman (and Bazunu) was absolutely right saying the players lacked the courage to want the ball. There were times early in the Serbia game where the players seemed to trust each other, take some risks and pass to each other in tight positions in an attempt to break the press. I thought the signs were bad in the Lux game after only 5 minutes. Everything looked slow and laboured and nobody seemed to want to take charge. It's something we've discussed for years here, players like Hendrick shouting for the ball knowing at the same time he had put himself into a position where no pass was available.

Clearly Kenny has to take the flak here too. You have to order the players to take risks (even if playing one/two touch football shouldn't be considered risky) and if they don't respond you yell at them from the sidelines to start doing it. Kenny is very passive in-game and his substitutions were weird. We finished the game with Coleman and Stevens in a back 3, where each should have been given license to attack - it's what they do best. Why have 3 at the back when at the same time you are neutralising the very thing it's supposed to allow?

And individual performances were awful. I like Stevens a lot but at times in the first half you'd swear the touchline was something he was unfamiliar with. He had a similar awful start vs Switzerland but grew into the game. Browne, a good player, was all over the place. Poor control, poor passing.

If I was manager now I'd tell each and every one to show the Giles "moral courage'. Tell them you'd rather they made mistakes trying to do the right thing rather than play mistake-free football that yields a slow predictable build up with no pressure. Break the game into ten minute blocks and see if they can complete each ten minutes the right way. Like said above, "street football". We used to play on the road and sometimes it wasn't about scoring. It was about showing off, making your pals look stupid chasing the ball, and humiliating them by walking the ball into the goal instead of a pot shot from 10 yards (a long distance in street football!).

[tetsujin1979]

1376478389851320321

[pineapple stu]

Wow; Spain were lower-ranked than us in 1993

The Eloratings (https://www.eloratings.net/) site gives us as the side who've declined most in the world in the past 12 months - down 116 points.

Libya are are next worst in that period, down 109, followed by the North down 103 and Slovakia down 100.

[tetsujin1979]

Wow; Spain were lower-ranked than us in 1993.
That was my first reaction too! I had to double check it on fifa's site, but it's true: https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/rank/id3/
(select 23 September 1993 in the drop down box)

[brine3]

Well soon enough we won't have to worry about losing to lower ranked teams.

[John83]

Wow; Spain were lower-ranked than us in 1993

The Eloratings (https://www.eloratings.net/) site gives us as the side who've declined most in the world in the past 12 months - down 116 points.

Libya are are next worst in that period, down 109, followed by the North down 103 and Slovakia down 100.
Damn near everyone was lower rated than us back then. I think it was 1992 when we peaked at #4 on earth. Big Jack had a good team available to him, but he worked wonders too.

[seanfhear]

That was my first reaction too! I had to double check it on fifa's site, but it's true: https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/rank/id3/
(select 23 September 1993 in the drop down box)
Spain used to have a weird thing going on between the Real Players and the Barcelona Players and the National Team and was the National Team the b all and end all to these players in any case. Liverpool’s players in the 70’s and 80’s was much more to the Club than England. Something Alex Ferguson learned from and used at Man Utd. Spain were a really under performing international team until the relatively recent teams that we all know. It wasn’t “ only / if “ the Players were good enough it was whether the Players really wanted to do it for Spain and especially considering where ( which clubs ) a lot of the players were coming from.

Did England actually take international football all that seriously until near the 1960’s ?

Spain probably did not until much later.

[seanfhear]

Well soon enough we won't have to worry about losing to lower ranked teams.
There’s always an Up-Side ! !

[Stuttgart88]

We have to face reality whilst we say football is the most played game in Ireland are many of the more talented youngsters particularly outside of Dublin still picking GAA first and Rugby is also a lot more popular regionally than it used be.
Too much competition in this country for talented youngsters who are good at 3 or 4 sports .I think your argument is intuitively true. I'm not saying I disagree but I do often wonder how many genuinely class players we lose out to other sports though. My sense is that those with a real gift for football (rather than those who are better than most but never likely to excel at elite level) do tend to specialise at football. I read a story about Tony Grealish once, how he'd watch his dad play GAA while dribbling football behind the goal. Tony played GAA too and was good at it but excelled at the football. Do we really lose many exceptional footballers to other sports? Does it matter in the overall scheme of things if kids play other sports and move away from football? I don't know but my instinctive answer is to think we don't lose many potential elites to other games.

Did anyone see the Twitter pic posted last week of a young Gavin Bazunu shaking hands with a kid called Jack Lundy, then of Leicester Celtic? Each was about 9 or 10 at the time. David McWilliams of the Irish Times asked who the other kid (Lundy was). His dad replied saying it was his lad, and had come from a 100% football family but went to school at St. Mary's Rathmines where he because the rugby team out-half and someone added that he also went on to captain Dublin minors. But football broke the dad's heart. The GAA club was a constant, a well funded well supported club that was there down the years and will be there for years to come. The school allowed for continuous development, 6 years of being in the same team and regular competition against other schools. The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.

I suppose it's a numbers thing. Football clearly loses players to other games as it clearly doesn't help itself and the more players you lose the % chance of missing a very good player increases. But playing other games at a young age is generally seen as a good thing too (Ruud Dokter disagrees though). And while Rob Kearney could have been a super GAA player for example, could he have been an international standard footballer? Could Sexton, Carbery or O'Gara have been turned into footballers of the standard needed if they'd specialised at football early? I'd say it's more likely Andy Reid could have been another Tony Ward rather than Ronan O'Gara being another Andy Reid. Ward was a very good footballer btw. My own experience from playing in a big rugby school is that the better footballers on the first XV rugby team were genuinely really good rugby players (Leinster schools quality) but none could hold a candle to a kid called James Crowley at football. James was on the books at Bohs but never got near the first team. Shels legend Eric Barber's son Malcolm was in my year. He was just miles better than the best all-rounders in the school at football. I have no idea what level he went on to play at but probably no higher than LSL.

[backstothewall]

I'm not surprised by that stat tbh. Over the years we've had our ups and downs, but we generally don't lose at home. Lansdoowne Rd is a hard old nut to crack for visiting teams.

I do think the lack of fans is contributing to our fall from grace. The atmosphere can be lacking when it comes to teams where there's a gulf in class, but when opposition of a similar level to ourselves come to town it's usually very good.

[tetsujin1979]

I mentioned a few things after the Serbia game, and after the 2 or 3rd game, that both cunningham and sadlier pointed out last night. I can't be bothered
going through them to be honest. One thing that hasn't been mentioned though is our midfield isnt good enough for 3 at the back, and our defending is
generally too sloppy in moments throughout the game to actually play 3. It all seems pointless and futile at this point.


You should bother Paul. You really should.

Paul, you have until 8:30 this evening to provide the requested points.

[jbyrne]

The football: teams broke up, players got poached, 4 league seasons weren't finished and it was a shambles and he gave up.


part of the problem is a pitches thing. most football clubs play on local authority pitches which inevitably end up closed for weeks on end from november to february due to weather. I experienced this myself constantly when playing. rugby at youth level is largely schools based with no such pitch problem. Id say an awful lot of GAA clubs own their own pitches too. Local authorities need to start building asto pitches so that kids (playing all codes) can continue to play uninterrupted through the whole season

[Stuttgart88]

Facilities in Ireland are a joke. Can I ask any of you living in Ireland how far is it to your nearest proper running track?

How much does an astro pitch even cost? And an urban white water rafting park was seriously considered for EUR 25 million.

[jbyrne]

Facilities in Ireland are a joke. Can I ask any of you living in Ireland how far is it to your nearest proper running track?

How much does an astro pitch even cost? And an urban white water rafting park was seriously considered for EUR 25 million.

approx €1.5m to construct a GAA astro so I suppose maybe €1.2m or so.
there are a few proper running tracks in the process of being built in Dublin (blanchardstown (i think), UCD and Dundrum that I am aware of) but we are a long way behind a lot of countries.
for some bizzare reason every new school in ireland seems to get massive basketball facilities...... probably because the hard surfaces double up as playgrounds that facilitate students coming back into class not covered in mud!

if they spent 5% of the annual health budget on extra sports facility funding every year i bet they would start saving 10% of the health budget in say 10 years time

[sbgawa]

If you have the land a top notch Astro (like the oriel or Roadstone) is around 400k for a full size pitch.
So Dublin CC could have done approximately 60 astros on Council land for the same price as the white water white elephant.....
Public record the Dublin County Manager is a member of Kayaking IReland.....so not that surprising..
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-behind-dublins-23m-white-water-raft-project-is-veteran-kayaker-38763521.html

[Stuttgart88]

Yet another example of just how badly Irish football does politics.

and jb, not only would health benefits accrue you'd also probably have crime reduction benefits too.

[jbyrne]

If you have the land a top notch Astro (like the oriel or Roadstone) is around 400k for a full size pitch.
So Dublin CC could have done approximately 60 astros on Council land for the same price as the white water white elephant.....
Public record the Dublin County Manager is a member of Kayaking IReland.....so not that surprising..
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-behind-dublins-23m-white-water-raft-project-is-veteran-kayaker-38763521.html

that €400,000 is just the carpet. it wont cover the cost of sub-base, fencing, floodlights, sub-pitch drainage etc