Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 24th March 2021 - World Cup 2022 Qualifier

[eitoof]

Conor Coventry is a bit of an odd one. He has so little experience of first team football.
Surely McEneff or even Harness would have been a better option.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd have gone for Anthony Scully - 12 goals in 41 appearances for Lincoln this season, Lincoln looking good for a play off spot in League One, and he's overage for the U21s so it's not weakening their squad for the Wales friendly - or Jamie McGrath - 37 appearances and 11 goals for St Mirren this season, including a penalty at the weekend, and played under Kenny at Dundalk

[eitoof]

I'd have gone for Anthony Scully - 12 goals in 41 appearances for Lincoln this season, Lincoln looking good for a play off spot in League One, and he's overage for the U21s so it's not weakening their squad for the Wales friendly - or Jamie McGrath - 37 appearances and 11 goals for St Mirren this season, including a penalty at the weekend, and played under Kenny at Dundalk
Great shouts.
Interesting that McGrath, Harness and Coventry are in your Irish Abroad Team of the Week.

[pineapple stu]

I think Kenny has set out his view that League One isn't a high enough standard though, and that's probably fair.

He's made an exception for keepers (otherwise we have none) and Parrott (presumably as he's only on loan and has been in the Ireland squad already - and even then he's pointing out it's a developmental call-up and he's not going to start)

Though there is a counter-argument that we're close to being in a "beggars can't be choosers" camp

[Exgrad]

Scully has been benched for the last month or so. Not sure about his all round game.

[tetsujin1979]

Scully has been benched for the last month or so. Not sure about his all round game.

Hasn't started a game in a month, but he's come off the bench in their five games since. It's a bit surprising because he's been a consistent starter across the season, apart from October when he was a substitute for seven of Lincoln's eight games, and came on four times.

[CraftyToePoke]

Its eight games since Scully scored though so maybe that came into it too, if he'd kept his goals ratio before that up in that last month he'd have had a stronger case.

[pineapple stu]

Half his goals have been in Cup competition as well, including two against a League Two side and three in the EFL Cup (and I don't know how seriously that's treated). So his league record is 6 in 30. That might also be a factor.

[Diggs246]

If we lose to Serbia and draw at home to Luxemburg ie 1 point from 6

Would anyone like kenny sacked? I wouldn't actually as I think he deserves the whole campaign

[John83]

If we lose to Serbia and draw at home to Luxemburg ie 1 point from 6

Would anyone like kenny sacked? I wouldn't actually as I think he deserves the whole campaign
I think those results would barely be below expectation at the moment. A win against Luxembourg or a draw against Serbia would be very positive results. Now, if he were to lose to Luxembourg, the pressure would be seriously mounting.

[CraftyToePoke]

If we lose to Serbia and draw at home to Luxemburg ie 1 point from 6

Would anyone like kenny sacked? I wouldn't actually as I think he deserves the whole campaign

No. Ten debuts so far, all the C19 and injuries to factor in, he's handling a generational talent gap coming through all while trying to play a bit of football we aren't embarrassed to watch.
We should be competitive in groups, that's the bar here because that's all we ever really were except for a period under Charlton anyway.
If we start really badly, it does need to improve through the group, performance wise, chance conversion wise, it needs to be heading in a good direction to buy him that time but I would be looking at more that just the final score for a period here, not forever, but for a while.

[Eminence Grise]

No. With all the injuries in the pool, not even Victor Frankenstein could cobble together a player or two out of all the spare parts.

[Kingdom]

I'd have Cullen in the team to anchor the midfield and provide the momentum link from back to front. With an untested goalkeeper, think it is advisable for Kenny to keep changes in the back line to the minimal necessary. So I'd gamble on Duffy despite concern and would lean towards packing the team with as many senior players as possible with the goalkeeper issue and Cullen starting.

Having a potentially nervous keeper - or at best, inexperienced - is exactly the reason I wouldn;t have Duffy in the side. He's out of form, poor on the turn, and drags us the guts of 10-15 yds deeper than we should be.
The one thing that would have me consdier him is Mitrovic, the brute, but to be fair to him, Clark is no shrinking violet either and would know his ins and outs well. OShea and Clark for me.

[Olé Olé]

On that point, they were speaking to the Serbia striking options in the Times yesterday. The four picked are: Jovic, Despotovic, Mitrovic and Vlahovic.

Jovic scored two on his return to Eintracht but has been quiet since. Mitrovic has been largely on the bench for Fulham. Despotovic is uncapped and 29 but is banging them in in Russia for Rubin Kazan. Vlahovic is the young buck with plenty goals for Fiorentina, including a hat trick against Benevento last week.

They have played two strikers in their last three games. It looks like they have picked from Mitrovic, Jovic and Tadic for those matches. Tadic, I assume, didn't play as an orthodox striker.

Mitrovic, as Kingdom says, is a brute. Jovic is 6 foot. Interesting to note, however, that Despotovic and Vlahovic both come in at 6 foot 3.

Unless they play Jovic and Tadic up top, there is likely to be a significant physical presence up there. If they play two of Mitrovic, Vlahovic and Despotovic then the physical presence is likely to be significant. Surely, however, the most likely is Jovic and Mitrovic- still physical.

Not talking us into starting Duffy myself. But his start could be justifiable for Kenny depending on the Serbs' selection. I'd rather Clark and O'Shea myself.

[CraftyToePoke]

It was me that said he was a brute, Mitrovic, that Kingdom charlatan is only slipstreaming my point.

[Snapshot]

I think those results would barely be below expectation at the moment. A win against Luxembourg or a draw against Serbia would be very positive results. Now, if he were to lose to Luxembourg, the pressure would be seriously mounting.

A gutsy performance in Belgrade followed by victory in Dublin must be the minimum requirement. That is certainly not asking too much. Surely we expect to beat Luxembourg in Dublin! Lowering the bar further than that reduces us to basket-case status. A bad defeat in Belgrade followed by a home loss to Luxembourg would shatter public confidence.

[seanfhear]

Jeez , Maybe Duffy’s needs a bit of protection. If he had a nightmare then it might be his last cap for the Republic of Ireland.

[pineapple stu]

The four picked are: Jovic, Despotovic, Mitrovic and Vlahovic.
Is that a real name?

Quite a powerful attacker I'd say. Bit of a mean streak to him too.

[SkStu]

I think most reasonable punters would be giving SK at least this full campaign in the job before pulling the trigger on things. The early appointment seemed like a blessing at the time (for him and many of us) but has turned into an absolute curse. Even though you cant help but feel like it has been a missed opportunity, some of the team selections he was forced to put out last year were laughable.

Id want to see progress during the campaign, similar to how Crafty puts it above, and a willingness not to marry the team to a particular formation where we put square pegs in round holes. For example, if we have two wing-backs that are among the most effective in the premier league we should acknowledge that in how we set ourselves up. It's beyond debate to be honest.

Even though i am tending towards generosity, nothing in life is guaranteed and even more so as a football manager. There will be a level that he cannot be allowed to drop below. In normal/ordinary times, he'd be mightily close to that level right now. Can't score, defensively shaky, you know the story... I'm not sure what is fair these days but anything less than a relatively competitive third place (within 5 points) or any dropped points to Luxembourg or Azerbaijan would have him right in the danger zone.

[SkStu]

Is that a real name?

Quite a powerful attacker I'd say. Bit of a mean streak to him too.

haha - i was thinking the same thing. What. A. Name!! :D

[John83]

A gutsy performance in Belgrade followed by victory in Dublin must be the minimum requirement. That is certainly not asking too much. Surely we expect to beat Luxembourg in Dublin! Lowering the bar further than that reduces us to basket-case status. A bad defeat in Belgrade followed by a home loss to Luxembourg would shatter public confidence.
I think we are in basket case territory; I don't think we will be still be there a year from now, whether Kenny survives in the interim or not. A win against Luxembourg isn't assured when we can't buy a goal. I'll grant you, a thumping from Serbia would make a win against Luxembourg extremely important to Kenny. We're 11/2 to win against Serbia - an 18% chance of a win. I'm curious to see what odds Luxembourg will have against us; I can't find any yet.

[Kingdom]

It was me that said he was a brute, Mitrovic, that Kingdom charlatan is only slipstreaming my point.

Thursday, 14:07. Do a search there Crafticus, then send for the Thanks Brigade.

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'd have gone for Anthony Scully - 12 goals in 41 appearances for Lincoln this season, Lincoln looking good for a play off spot in League One, and he's overage for the U21s so it's not weakening their squad for the Wales friendly - or Jamie McGrath - 37 appearances and 11 goals for St Mirren this season, including a penalty at the weekend, and played under Kenny at Dundalk

I finally agree with you!!! Those two but I would have brought back Aiden to lead the kids

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'd have gone for Anthony Scully - 12 goals in 41 appearances for Lincoln this season, Lincoln looking good for a play off spot in League One, and he's overage for the U21s so it's not weakening their squad for the Wales friendly - or Jamie McGrath - 37 appearances and 11 goals for St Mirren this season, including a penalty at the weekend, and played under Kenny at Dundalk


If we lose to Serbia and draw at home to Luxemburg ie 1 point from 6

Would anyone like kenny sacked? I wouldn't actually as I think he deserves the whole campaign

I think the cards are on the table, he will end his task, in my opinion he is there to bring the youngsters, and then try to qualify to the WC, cant say that to the irish public, because irish public wants the WC. His choices are a bit odd for me, he seems naive at times.

1-An experienced goalie McDermott (even the season hasnt started yet) and Colin Doyle.
2-McGeady in the team if McGeady wants to play again.
3-didnt bring the in form players. McGrath, Scully Gallagher in MLS at the time etc
4-didnt want to chase and convince dual pro players like Jackie did, even that was a different time. I think Mick McCarthy discovered a left back at Cardiff
5-didnt change his system 4-3-3

[Bielsa´s irish]

Now with a newbie as goalkeeper we might play 4-5-1 instead of a 4-3-3.

he would go with

............travers...........

coleman duffy clark stevens

doherty hendrick browne cullen brady

...........collins............

[John83]

Ah, the "please don't hurt me" of team selections.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Ah, the "please don't hurt me" of team selections.

yeah that's correct! With the players at disposal he would go with that, cant see Connolly, Robinson and Shane Long from kick-off.

We need a point in Belgrado they are gonna be nervous too but they are very competent up front.

[seanfhear]

Lets go with the 1-10 formation !

[Bielsa´s irish]

Lets go with the 1-10 formation !

could be, its mandatory to get a point, because they play Portugal 3 days later, and the draw could pressure them to lose vs the portugueses

[paul_oshea]

Is that a real name?

Quite a powerful attacker I'd say. Bit of a mean streak to him too.

Son of a despot.

[paul_oshea]

I think most reasonable punters would be giving SK at least this full campaign in the job before pulling the trigger on things. The early appointment seemed like a blessing at the time (for him and many of us) but has turned into an absolute curse. Even though you cant help but feel like it has been a missed opportunity, some of the team selections he was forced to put out last year were laughable.



I feel he has been quite lucky, given what's gone on, the general nonchalance of the Irish public towards any sporting teams. Little was said about a good win against England in the 6 nations even. Kenny has come in somewhat "out of" radar, there's still no pressure he's had the opportunity and many games to get to know his squad, players, positions, and formations relatively pressure free. By this stage he surely knows whats not working, and whos not working. By the next round of qualifiers a sense of normality will have returned (ireland maybe excluded :rolleyes) and he should have a very good idea of what the team needs and what he wants and how those around him can be best utilised to achieve that. So anything less than 3 points and he is in danger territory. Serbia have been a mixed bag, and if they are poor to start then we must take the opportunity we have missed there before. Other weaker sides have done it, we should too.

[Kingdom]

I feel he has been quite lucky, given what's gone on, the general nonchalance of the Irish public towards any sporting teams. Little was said about a good win against England in the 6 nations even. Kenny has come in somewhat "out of" radar, there's still no pressure he's had the opportunity and many games to get to know his squad, players, positions, and formations relatively pressure free. By this stage he surely knows whats not working, and whos not working. By the next round of qualifiers a sense of normality will have returned (ireland maybe excluded :rolleyes) and he should have a very good idea of what the team needs and what he wants and how those around him can be best utilised to achieve that. So anything less than 3 points and he is in danger territory. Serbia have been a mixed bag, and if they are poor to start then we must take the opportunity we have missed there before. Other weaker sides have done it, we should too.

Well, well, well, welledy, well....

[sadloserkid]

I'll clarify it by saying that I'm generally well disposed to Kenny as a manager. I recognise that Luxembourg are better than they traditionally are and we're a bit pooh at the moment. All that being said, I'd expect us to beat Luxembourg at home (thought we didn't exactly batter them, 2-0 and 2-1, way back in the Euro 88 qualifiers) and while I wouldn't necessarily sack him outright (Charlton wasn't sacked after we drew with Liechtenstein) it's definitely one nail in the coffin if we can't win that game.

[Bielsa´s irish]

One thing I dont get from the irish football manager (the most important job in the whole Republic) is that he contradicts himself all the time. I understand that he trusts the underage players, and wont pick up "complicated senior players", will trust in the shy James McCarthy and the good captain Seamus Coleman as senior players, but Coleman didnt play the last few times.

Kenny needs to be the leader of the team, that's why he will pick up younger players, but I read his goal is to get to Qatar, so you cant do both,

In Argentina we had a case with Daniel Passarella in 94/95/96/97/98 he brought the youth players to the national team, kicked out all the players who played for "Coco" Basile in USA 94 and he became the boss and witch doctor of our national team. Kicked out Fernando Redondo and Claudio Cannigia, because they had longer hair, like rock stars, and Pasarella ordered all the players to have a short haircut or a buzz haircut. They refused so they were frozen from the squad.

He brought "yes sir" players like Javier Zanetti, "Valdanito" Crespo, Seba Verón, "Kily" Gonzalez, Roberto Ayala.

Maybe Kenny is building for the future with "yes sir" young players he trusts

[Bielsa´s irish]

I'll clarify it by saying that I'm generally well disposed to Kenny as a manager. I recognise that Luxembourg are better than they traditionally are and we're a bit pooh at the moment. All that being said, I'd expect us to beat Luxembourg at home (thought we didn't exactly batter them, 2-0 and 2-1, way back in the Euro 88 qualifiers) and while I wouldn't necessarily sack him outright (Charlton wasn't sacked after we drew with Liechtenstein) it's definitely one nail in the coffin if we can't win that game.

under this global situation of Covid, national team federations cant afford to sack managers. Some reach an agreement for compensatory money if they resign. I think Colombia fired Carlitos Queiroz in late December, that's the one I recall

[zero]

One thing I dont get from the irish football manager (the most important job in the whole Republic) is that he contradicts himself all the time. I understand that he trusts the underage players, and wont pick up "complicated senior players", will trust in the shy James McCarthy and the good captain Seamus Coleman as senior players, but Coleman didnt play the last few times.

Kenny needs to be the leader of the team, that's why he will pick up younger players, but I read his goal is to get to Qatar, so you cant do both,

In Argentina we had a case with Daniel Passarella in 94/95/96/97/98 he brought the youth players to the national team, kicked out all the players who played for "Coco" Basile in USA 94 and he became the boss and witch doctor of our national team. Kicked out Fernando Redondo and Claudio Cannigia, because they had longer hair, like rock stars, and Pasarella ordered all the players to have a short haircut or a buzz haircut. They refused so they were frozen from the squad.

He brought "yes sir" players like Javier Zanetti, "Valdanito" Crespo, Seba Verón, "Kily" Gonzalez, Roberto Ayala.

Maybe Kenny is building for the future with "yes sir" young players he trusts

not sure the comparison quite works...

[SkStu]

I feel he has been quite lucky, given what's gone on, the general nonchalance of the Irish public towards any sporting teams. Little was said about a good win against England in the 6 nations even. Kenny has come in somewhat "out of" radar, there's still no pressure he's had the opportunity and many games to get to know his squad, players, positions, and formations relatively pressure free. By this stage he surely knows whats not working, and whos not working. By the next round of qualifiers a sense of normality will have returned (ireland maybe excluded :rolleyes) and he should have a very good idea of what the team needs and what he wants and how those around him can be best utilised to achieve that. So anything less than 3 points and he is in danger territory. Serbia have been a mixed bag, and if they are poor to start then we must take the opportunity we have missed there before. Other weaker sides have done it, we should too.

On paper, Serbia should batter us (just refer to some of the posts on the previous page) but it is 11 v 11 and i would be hoping for a competitive display even if we get no points at the end of the 90 minutes. They have Stojkovic at the helm too so that will bring something different (unknown) in terms of what their recent form might suggest. He'll certainly have them raring to go.

I think SK has been under all sorts of pressure. A large component of the press media has had the knives out since day 1 and that only intensified with last years results and the airing of the dirty laundry. A sizable chunk of the fans also will have him on a very short leash. The circumstances have shielded him from the vitriol (which would suggest some "luck") but not the nay-saying. He's been dealt a horrible hand in his first 11 months and some of the things you have suggested he has gained (know the players, what works/doesnt work etc) i would argue hasn't occurred and certainly not in anything approaching a normal way.

[Bielsa´s irish]

not sure the comparison quite works...

Yes, because they were unknown, Zanetti and Verón were playing in 2 division, Verón had his father former player but his dad was bankrupt and working as a mechanic in an atelier of repair of cars.

All were from they youth set up, but they werent winners, actually we had winner of u-20 later with Aimar Saviola Cambiasso and Riquelme, I think we beat the Republic in one semi-final.

But the comparision is the same, get kids to do your mainstream idea, your game plan

[Strongbow10]

The sad thing is none of the injured contingent are really of any use to be honest with exception of John Egan. Would have liked to see Caoimhin Kelleher get some games aswell so that is unfortunate. Look at the below list and although its good to have options, but there is nobody there who will substantially improve our starting XI

Kevin Long
Conor Hourihane
Callum O'Dowda
James McCarthy
Jack Byrne
Harry Arter
Adam Idah
Darren Randolph

Happy to see that Kenny has been railroaded into playing Josh Cullen, he deserved more of a look whilst at Charlton and I suspect he will come out of these games with alot of credit, but don't think he'd have got a chance if McCarthy and Arter were fit.

The players that Kenny has at his disposal are ripe for 3 at the back, he needs to adapt. 2 sets of full backs adept at playing as WB, although would like to see Coleman step in as part of back 3.

When everyone is fit i'd like to see us persevere with this:

------------------------------------------------------ Kelleher


--------------------------Coleman-----------------------Egan--------------------Clark


---------------Doherty----------Knight-----------------Cullen-------------Browne---------Stevens


----------------------------------------Parrot------------------------------Connolly

[Bielsa´s irish]

On paper, Serbia should batter us (just refer to some of the posts on the previous page) but it is 11 v 11 and i would be hoping for a competitive display even if we get no points at the end of the 90 minutes. They have Stojkovic at the helm too so that will bring something different (unknown) in terms of what their recent form might suggest. He'll certainly have them raring to go.

I think SK has been under all sorts of pressure. A large component of the press media has had the knives out since day 1 and that only intensified with last years results and the airing of the dirty laundry. A sizable chunk of the fans also will have him on a very short leash. The circumstances have shielded him from the vitriol (which would suggest some "luck") but not the nay-saying. He's been dealt a horrible hand in his first 11 months and some of the things you have suggested he has gained (know the players, what works/doesnt work etc) i would argue hasn't occurred and certainly not in anything approaching a normal way.

Yes, but as Paul said he had the benefit of no attendance, imagine those results with a full house?

Serbia has better individuals but the are very moody, they can be off or on. We need smart players not very good players. If we are smart enough and use football sense streetwise footie, we can get a result

[Bielsa´s irish]

The sad thing is none of the injured contingent are really of any use to be honest with exception of John Egan. Would have liked to see Caoimhin Kelleher get some games aswell so that is unfortunate. Look at the below list and although its good to have options, but there is nobody there who will substantially improve our starting XI

Kevin Long
Conor Hourihane
Callum O'Dowda
James McCarthy
Jack Byrne
Harry Arter
Adam Idah
Darren Randolph

Happy to see that Kenny has been railroaded into playing Josh Cullen, he deserved more of a look whilst at Charlton and I suspect he will come out of these games with alot of credit, but don't think he'd have got a chance if McCarthy and Arter were fit.

The players that Kenny has at his disposal are ripe for 3 at the back, he needs to adapt. 2 sets of full backs adept at playing as WB, although would like to see Coleman step in as part of back 3.

When everyone is fit i'd like to see us persevere with this:

------------------------------------------------------ Kelleher


--------------------------Coleman-----------------------Egan--------------------Clark


---------------Doherty----------Knight-----------------Cullen-------------Browne---------Stevens


----------------------------------------Parrot------------------------------Connolly


I like your team but I would get James McCarthy, Randolph and Manning, Shane Long for Parrott atm. But what about iin Belgrado? How to shield Travers?

[pineapple stu]

The sad thing is none of the injured contingent are really of any use to be honest with exception of John Egan. Would have liked to see Caoimhin Kelleher get some games aswell so that is unfortunate. Look at the below list and although its good to have options, but there is nobody there who will substantially improve our starting XI
Welcome back Strongbow! :)

But yeah, above is my read of it too. They'd give us more strength in depth I think - maybe better options for the last 30 minutes - but none is a particular improvement on what we have already. (They may have started, but I think their replacements are of a similar standard, which is to say not great)

[Razors left peg]

One thing I dont get from the irish football manager (the most important job in the whole Republic) is that he contradicts himself all the time. I understand that he trusts the underage players, and wont pick up "complicated senior players", will trust in the shy James McCarthy and the good captain Seamus Coleman as senior players, but Coleman didnt play the last few times.



WTF are you on about?

[Bielsa´s irish]

WTF are you on about?

the squad selection....wouldnt you have selected Westwood and Aiden?

I like kids to earn their place but we need experienced players vs Serbia.

We got a 2-2 draw last time. Daryl Murphy scored dont remember the other fellow.

we need a balanced team and football brains on the pitch. We need to nulify the serbs, frustrate them, and got them zz. We must hold the match in midfield, we need a 10 who could keep possession and carry the ball. Could be Robinson but havent seen much of his football abilities

[Razors left peg]

No as it happens I wouldnt have selected Westwood but thats not my question. Why are you talking about McCarthy when is injured

[pineapple stu]

Westwood is also injured too (officially at least)

[shakermaker1982]

I’d be truly amazed if Kenny ditches the 433.

He’ll do something daft like

Travers *

Doherty
Clarke *
Duffy
Stevens*

Browne
Hendrick
Brady

Robinson
Connolly *
Collins

I’d start the players with an asterix. I’d snap your hand off for a 1-1.

[CraftyToePoke]

I like kids to earn their place but we need experienced players vs Serbia.

Look Bielsa if you're gonna WUM the place at least be consistent, you were on about McGrath & Scully a few days ago for this match :) become the best WUM you can be, live your best life etc :)

So now you're saying experience, yes ?

[Razors left peg]

I dont know why Travers should be a guaranteed starter over Bazunu.

Travers has played a total of 35 senior games, 23 of which came for Weymouth.

Bazunu has played 32 senior games, including 4 at Shamrock Rovers.

There is only a 2 year age difference between them and Bazunu is currently the one actually playing football. For me I think Bazunu should be the one starting.

[pineapple stu]

I think games played is only one way of looking at it. Travers has spent the last two years training with a Premier League side; he'll have picked up a lot from that. Bazunu has been with an academy and now a League One side and it's just not the same thing.

Ideally I'd start neither, and I think Kenny feels the same way. But the day-to-day stuff does count.