Serbia V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 24th March 2021 - World Cup 2022 Qualifier

[CraftyToePoke]

That's what I feel too. The keeper issue is one factor - we're missing three keepers and that's not good with a small panel like ours. And we've no forwards. No keepers and no forwards is never a good mix.

Ah but look at that midfield of ours, the talent in there will paper over any cracks elsewhere with plenty left over.

[backstothewall]

I expect a defeat.

This is the team I'd go with, but I don't expect Kenny to abandon his 4-3-3 unfortunately

--------------- Bazunu -----------

------ Coleman Duffy Clark ------

Doherty Hendrick Cullen Stevens

--- Robinson Parrott Connolly ---

[paul_oshea]

Its very noticeable how little traffic is going through this forum in the build up to a new campaign kicking off. Its obviously a sign of the apathy that has built up along with the disappointment of how little the young players have developed this season. Kenny needs a good start tomorrow to try get a buzz going again.

I'd put it all down to Covid, sure some journos didn't even seem to know when the game was on, saying next week instead of this! That's why I think its a great time to be an Irish manager, yes there's upheavel but there's also little interest so a pressure free environment for the past year and short term foreseeable future.

Theres a general feeling of less involvement, attachment to many things at the moment, not just sport or certainly not just soccer/football.

[Razors left peg]

I'd put it all down to Covid, sure some journos didn't even seem to know when the game was on, saying next week instead of this! That's why I think its a great time to be an Irish manager, yes there's upheavel but there's also little interest so a pressure free environment for the past year and short term foreseeable future.

Theres a general feeling of less involvement, attachment to many things at the moment, not just sport or certainly not just soccer/football.

Very fair point. Not evening being able to go to pub to watch game doesnt help. I kinda felt the same with the 6 Nations, just didnt have the same feel to it

[geysir]

I'd be curious to see what the tv viewing figures will be.
I wouldn't put the apathy all down to covid, that would be ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. Relatively speaking it's ( or near enough) the poorest quality squad ever made available to an any Irish manager for a competitive games since Irl v Austria in the early 70's and it follows that competitive performances/results on the field have suffered to degrees beyond the memory bank of most fans.

Despite their low points tally in the Euro qualifiers, Luxembourg are a very decent competitive team and will be targeting us as a good chance for an away 3 pointer.

[John83]

Despite their low points tally in the Euro qualifiers, Luxembourg are a very decent competitive team and will be targeting us as a good chance for an away 3 pointer.
Even now, they'd need a bit of luck to beat us, but it's sad that it's even a possibility.

[Snapshot]

I'd be curious to see what the tv viewing figures will be.
I wouldn't put the apathy all down to covid, that would be ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. Relatively speaking it's ( or near enough) the poorest quality squad ever made available to an any Irish manager for a competitive games since Irl v Austria in the early 70's and it follows that competitive performances/results on the field have suffered to degrees beyond the memory bank of most fans.

Despite their low points tally in the Euro qualifiers, Luxembourg are a very decent competitive team and will be targeting us as a good chance for an away 3 pointer.

There's no elephant in the room. The apathy is down to poor results, no goals and doubts about the manager. Despite the withdrawals, the team proferred by backstothewall above contains only two players not connected to EPL clubs. Apart from Egan and the goalkeeper situation there's nobody missing who cannot be replaced adequately.

[Kingdom]

Is it? I would have thought a 25-page thread on the games already was quite decent for here.

Though I do remember the days when there'd also be a 20-page thread of people planning to go to the games :)

I can do a historical 3 page irrational post if you like? For sentimentality purposes naturally...

[Bielsa´s irish]

whats the story ¿? how is his eleven? i would give the nod to a mixture of experienced and newcomers. First half an hour is important, but without attendance the "local or visitor" factor isnt that vital

[Bielsa´s irish]

probable Serbia eleven, with a 3-3-1-3 formation it seems an all out to attack under Stojkovic, what a great 10 he was! this 11 is not confirmed yet.


rajkovic
spahir
mitrovic
milenkovic

gudeij
maksimovic
duricic
lazovic

vlahovic
kostic
tadic

[paul_oshea]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0323/1205697-defensive-and-direct-no-on-both-counts-kenny/

I think that answers the question of Kenny ever changing it up.

[pineapple stu]

whats the story ¿?
Why would you put the upside-down question mark at the end...?

[paul_oshea]

I'd be curious to see what the tv viewing figures will be.
I wouldn't put the apathy all down to covid, that would be ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. Relatively speaking it's ( or near enough) the poorest quality squad ever made available to an any Irish manager for a competitive games since Irl v Austria in the early 70's and it follows that competitive performances/results on the field have suffered to degrees beyond the memory bank of most fans.

Despite their low points tally in the Euro qualifiers, Luxembourg are a very decent competitive team and will be targeting us as a good chance for an away 3 pointer.

I don't think viewing figures will tell much, it can be argued either way, for both arguments if the numbers are low or high. My assumption is they will be relatively low, at least lower than other qualifiers pre-covid, lower than the previous opening qualifying campaign against Serbia away.

The apathy is probably not solely covid related, but when its all over and if still doing poorly it will be that we are sh1te basically : D

Snapshot makes a good point, theres little excuses anymore about missing personnel. This is it. This is where we and Kenny are at. So if he's going to have any impact it will start now.

[DeLorean]

The build up, both on here and in the media, seems pretty standard to me to be honest. Agree that viewing figures won't mean much though with the lack of alternatives and half the country out of work.

[pineapple stu]

FWIW, voting in the best kit thread has seen a slight uptick this week :)

[jbyrne]

Its very noticeable how little traffic is going through this forum in the build up to a new campaign kicking off. Its obviously a sign of the apathy that has built up along with the disappointment of how little the young players have developed this season. Kenny needs a good start tomorrow to try get a buzz going again.

i was pleasantly surprised to see a few people with jerseys and ireland tracksuit tops walking their kids to school this morning.
i think people are more interested than might immediately be apparent. it is the start of the World cup after all.

i do think RTE could have done a far better job building up a bit of excitement. all its been for the last couple of weeks is the cheltenham horseys and the rugger and they don't have the TV rights to either!!!!!

[paul_oshea]

Weren't you warned about that?

[nigel-harps1954]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0323/1205697-defensive-and-direct-no-on-both-counts-kenny/

I think that answers the question of Kenny ever changing it up.

Why would he waste 8 games trying to bring about a change in style and approach to games, to immediately bin all of that when the WC Qualifiers come around?

[backstothewall]

Why would he waste 8 games trying to bring about a change in style and approach to games, to immediately bin all of that when the WC Qualifiers come around?

Quite simple really. Because it hasn't worked.

[seanfhear]

Exam Day !

[paul_oshea]

Why would he waste 8 games trying to bring about a change in style and approach to games, to immediately bin all of that when the WC Qualifiers come around?

Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.

[DeLorean]

It should be remembered that he didn't really play a 4-3-3 in Slovakia, probably the furthest he's swayed from it so far in easily his biggest match.

[Snapshot]

Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.

Agree. Those awful Bulgaria, Finland and Wales games lurched on and on without any recognition that it wasn't working. No Plan B - and Kenny stood motionless on the sideline like a rabbit caught in headlights. Hopefully, that won't happen again.

[John83]

Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.
Tell you what, if the points of comparison you have are a guy who once went unbeaten for a league season in the Premiership, and a guy who has set the record points tally in the Premiership, "not a great example" doesn't cut it. If those are the models Kenny is working off of, then great.

[backstothewall]

Life is quite simple in a way. All of human history is the story of people just trying things.

Generally speaking, If it works, do the same thing the next time.

If you've given it a good go, and it hasn't worked, usually you should try something different next time.

From hunting antelope with stone implements, to developing the next generation of computer chips, that's been a reliable approach.

He's given it the old college try at this point. 8 games. 5 defeats. 1 goal.

It doesn't work.

[DCWA]

When Kenny got the job we all knew (and presumably so did those who employ him) we would be moving forward with a 433. He will live or die by that.

There can be no one and I mean no one who expected anything but.

The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.

[passinginterest]

Hard to know what to think about the game today. So much has gone wrong for Kenny, but the best performance we've seen came in the one game that really mattered. Even if it a defeat, I hope we can break the goal duck, I think a 2-1 loss is much better than a loss to nil going into the Luxembourg game. There's the usual creeping match day optimism, maybe Serbia are no great shakes, maybe everything clicks for us and even the half chances hit the net. Trying to figure out the team, I don't think it'll be three out and out forwards, I reckon Brady starts for sets pieces and drops in as a more regular midfielder. We might even see something closer to a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1.

Travers seems to be confirmed in goal
Coleman looks favourite right full. I'm leaning towards him picking Duffy and Clark for the experience although I prefer O'Shea. Might we see Doherty at left full? I thinks it's possible considering Stevens hasn't been great this season and Kenny has suggested we'll see Coleman and Doherty play together.
Cullen is the natural sitting midfielder, he starts, Hendrick seems a cert for experience, Browne might hold the upper hand for the other spot but can't rule out Knight and Molumby. I think Brady starts on the left of a forward three but plays deep enough that it's more like a midfield 4 with Hendrick covering the right side.
Robinson and Connolly seem to be the preferred forwards, but with Connolly not fully fit we might see Long or Collins as a more conventional focal point. I think Kenny would prefer the speed and free kick winning ability of Robinson and Connolly together, so that we can attack the channels and try to split the Serbian centre backs, with a more conventional centre forward, we're more likely to hit and hope rather than try to work in behind on the deck.

Can see 2-0 Sebia. But really hoping for a score draw. An away win an Kenny shouldn't be under any pressure for a while (until the inevitable loss at home to Lux that would follow at least!!!)

[John83]

It doesn't work.
Injuries and covid made an absolute joke of those "tries". It's like saying that Christmas is a bad idea because of the resulting 6-month lockdown.


The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.
Exactly.

[backstothewall]

When Kenny got the job we all knew (and presumably so did those who employ him) we would be moving forward with a 433. He will live or die by that.

There can be no one and I mean no one who expected anything but.

The only meaningful game to now was Slovakia, the performance was decent. We move from there and see what this campaign brings.

If those other 7 games were meaningless, which is highly debatable, he's been responsible for the failure to use those 8 meaningless games to blood new goalkeepers, and left us in the situation of our keepers having a combined total of 4 caps and only 180 minutes international experience between them.

[Diggs246]

My guess on Kennys team ( 433)

-------------------Travers
Coleman ----Duffy ---- Clark---- stevens

--- Jeff---- Cullen --------- browne

---Brady---- Robinson ------- Connelly

[LurcherLover]

Please tell me this forum is a little more welcoming to new members than YBIG?

[pineapple stu]

If those other 7 games were meaningless, which is highly debatable, he's been responsible for the failure to use those 8 meaningless games to blood new goalkeepers, and left us in the situation of our keepers having a combined total of 4 caps and only 180 minutes international experience between them.

I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.

And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent. Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

[Diggs246]

I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.

And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent. Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

Ive a bee in my bonnet re Bulgaria at home, tbh I thought we were cr*p. if we win that game we would have been 2nd seeds and be in a easier group etc

[lofty9]

Quite simple really. Because it hasn't worked.

He regularly used 3 at the back with Derry, and in the European games too. He went direct quite a lot when needed to. I don’t think he’s as stubborn as being made out.

We all know he’s trying to change the perception that Ireland players can’t be brave on the ball and go route 1. 99% of youth football is now played on the ground, and that’s the process most of this group were brought up with. It’s nothing new to the players, just new to some of the Ireland support. He’s on a hiding to nothing with the level we are at unfortunately. We might see shoots of green by the end of this campaign, but cant see tonight being a pleasant experience. Hopefully, I’m wrong.

[pineapple stu]

Ive a bee in my bonnet re Bulgaria at home, tbh I thought we were cr*p. if we win that game we would have been 2nd seeds and be in a easier group etc
I meant Bulgaria away actually. Yeah, the home game was worse. But away was decent and we created chances which we would have finished if we'd have had competent forwards.

[nigel-harps1954]

Quite simple really. Because it hasn't worked.


Thats not the point, we've had numerous conversations on here about square pegs and round holes, the same argument can be said about the approach if the personnel we have doesnt match it, or the approach isnt working(in game), doesnt get the necessary output. Its a case of having a plan B. Not a great example but many of the good passing teams, like wegners and peps were always criticised for not having an alternative, when the gameplan wasn't working, they were found out.

There is always another option. THere should always be another option. No ones saying or has said to abandon anything.


My point is that it would make little to no sense to spend 8 games, and numerous training sessions, trying to implement a new playing style, and a bit of confidence in playing football for once, only to throw it all away as soon as the World Cup Qualifiers come about.

This, after all, is his brief. The World Cup qualifiers is his main game.

I don't see any coach in the world spending his initial time in charge gutting the old system and putting in place a new system, only to turn around and undo all that when it comes to the first qualifier.

[Kingdom]

i was pleasantly surprised to see a few people with jerseys and ireland tracksuit tops walking their kids to school this morning.
i think people are more interested than might immediately be apparent. it is the start of the World cup after all.

i do think RTE could have done a far better job building up a bit of excitement. all its been for the last couple of weeks is the cheltenham horseys and the rugger and they don't have the TV rights to either!!!!!

Did it myself, Bohs t-shirt (that one has got the "Northside ******" comment previously from a passing car in Laeken on the Northwest side of Brussels (gas stuff lad - if only he knew!)), Ireland zippy and Ireland fleece. There's nothing like game day.

[John83]

Please tell me this forum is a little more welcoming to new members than YBIG?
I hope so. If anyone gives you grief, report the post. The main mod here is tets, and he's quite active.

Like anywhere else, it has its quirks and lunatics, but I don't think it's hostile.

[SkStu]

This is one game where i have nothing to say in terms of positive opinions or predictions. I fear we will get absolutely tanked today. A good 3-0 should-have-been-more type hiding.

And i dont think the fingers can be pointed squarely at Kenny if we do. Where i do find fault is not adjusting our formation to something like a 3-5-2 as per some of my earlier posts which i think would allow us to field our best players in their strongest positions. Even with that we dont really have a #10 in the squad but nonetheless i think that would be the only way i can fault the guy. He has been beset with the most unfortunate set of circumstances ever to befall an Irish manager and even then has us playing a better brand of football.

The Irish team right now is an absolute headf*ck.

[backstothewall]

I disagree with that - we've had no friendlies (England aside) and the Nations League was important for seeding purposes. I don't think you can be too experimental when you're trying to bring in a new system with no friendlies.


I don't agree either. For the sake of argument I accepted the premise that those games were meaningless. But they can't be important when picking the team, but meaningless after you get beat. It's one or the other.

Stephen Kenny obviously agreed with us and considered them important, as he kept playing the strongest team he had available. But if you're going to present the case that they were meaningless, all that does is take his record out of the bad results pan, and drops it squarely into the poor squad development fire.


And it's worth noting that none of our keepers would be in our full squad, which is a heck of a thing to ask him to prepare for.

I'll accept that Randolph and Kelleher are 1st & 2nd choice, but one of the guys left over must be #3. They've only been given 90mins each. If they were meaningless games that's a misjudgement that's now coming back to haunt us. As I said above though, I don't hang that on him. I think he's been unlucky in this regard.

[QUOTE=pineapple stu;2070074]Slovakia was the most meaningful game, but I think it (and Bulgaria) were the two where we had the fullest squads, and the performance in both was decent.

I think we were utterly dreadful in that Bulgaria game.


Once covid starting causing havoc, it was always going to be very hard to keep things cohesive.

I'll accept that the last round of fixtures were a fiasco because of Covid, and that there was nothing he could have done. It's the only reason i wasn't calling for his head at that point.

But it was only a stay of execution. If we don't beat Luxembourg his position is untenable.


My point is that it would make little to no sense to spend 8 games, and numerous training sessions, trying to implement a new playing style, and a bit of confidence in playing football for once, only to throw it all away as soon as the World Cup Qualifiers come about.

This, after all, is his brief. The World Cup qualifiers is his main game.

I don't see any coach in the world spending his initial time in charge gutting the old system and putting in place a new system, only to turn around and undo all that when it comes to the first qualifier.

Who said anything about abandoning playing football or going back to the old style?

I'm suggesting trying a different formation in an effort to get round pegs into round holes, and make the most of the players at our disposal. If fact the formation is about the only thing that Kenny has retained from the previous era. 4-3-3/4-5-1 was probably the most common setup used by both O'Neill and McCarthy before him.

[jbyrne]

Ive a bee in my bonnet re Bulgaria at home, tbh I thought we were cr*p. if we win that game we would have been 2nd seeds and be in a easier group etc

actually could have been a blessing the way things worked out given serbia are possibly one of the weakest 2nd seeds and there are a few third seeds that I am glad we missed

[Bottle of Tonic]

I love Ireland games and look forward to them like no other. I'm a weird mix of excited and dreading it, optimistic yet expecting a hammering. Part of me says by law of averages we have to click soon and tonight we will get a goal or two. But the experience of Ireland games in reality is nearly always the same. Nothing clear cut created and less scored.

Just wish work would hurry the feck up so I can get this waiting over!

[Bielsa´s irish]

The WC is coming for the Republic, I love the attitude from the kids everywhere, they are the toppest feeling about WC.

Whats the story on the 11? is it realesed?


If they play all out attack, how is Kenny gonna use his masterplan strategy?
Stojkovic may play 3-3-1-3 it seems. Their tall striker may stay on the bench, but no confirmation yet.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Why would you put the upside-down question mark at the end...?

Sorry it is a spanish thing, we use both question marks when asking, to open the interrogative and to end the question sentence, it is a gramatic thing, compañero!!

We all blame Castilla Y León and their monarchy. I got used to write dossiers for the U, with the ending question mark in spanish (castellano) only for the lady in office to remind me to use both, ...for me is simpler the english way, the closing question mark

regards

[DeLorean]

I meant Bulgaria away actually. Yeah, the home game was worse. But away was decent and we created chances which we would have finished if we'd have had competent forwards.

Performance wise I would rank them something like this (from best to worst):

1. Slovakia A (big game, easily the better side, some excellent chances and one sitter)
2. Finland A (thought we were really good here, again the better side)
3. Wales A (not quite as good as above but played quite well)
4. Bulgaria A (positive signs for his first game)
5. Wales H (probably should have nicked it with the Brady/Long chances)
6. England A (excellent first 20/25 but ultimately out of our depth)
7. Finland H (lacked imagination/urgency)
8. Bulgaria H (dire)

[pineapple stu]

Sorry it is a spanish thing, we use both question marks when asking, to open the interrogative and to end the question sentence, it is a gramatic thing, compañero!!
The upside-down question mark goes at the start of the sentence, not at the end. Because the point is to indicate, at the start, that a question is being asked (the syntax being otherwise the exact same as stating a fact)

Which is another hint that you're maybe not quite the native Spanish speaker you make yourself out to be...

[pineapple stu]

I don't agree either. For the sake of argument I accepted the premise that those games were meaningless. But they can't be important when picking the team, but meaningless after you get beat. It's one or the other.
Fair point alright.


I'll accept that Randolph and Kelleher are 1st & 2nd choice, but one of the guys left over must be #3.
I'd have Randolph, Westwood and Kelleher in the squad, given the chance. Though it's not entirely certain if Westwood really wants in.

[Bielsa´s irish]

Why would you put the upside-down question mark at the end...?


The upside-down question mark goes at the start of the sentence, not at the end. Because the point is to indicate, at the start, that a question is being asked (the syntax being otherwise the exact same as stating a fact)

Which is another hint that you're maybe not quite the native Spanish speaker you make yourself out to be...

Iam Stu, check me as Javier Franzoia . Plus I lived several years in Europe in the Suisse Rommande/France, i speak like four languages, and sometimes i have a mixed up among them. I am true.

[pineapple stu]

I speak three languages; doesn't mean I start putting fadas on rs or exclamation marks at the start of the sentence.

But anyways...

[Bielsa´s irish]

Performance wise I would rank them something like this (from best to worst):

1. Slovakia A (big game, easily the better side, some excellent chances and one sitter)
2. Finland A (thought we were really good here, again the better side)
3. Wales A (not quite as good as above but played quite well)
4. Bulgaria A (positive signs for his first game)
5. Wales H (probably should have nicked it with the Brady/Long chances)
6. England A (excellent first 20/25 but ultimately out of our depth)
7. Finland H (lacked imagination/urgency)
8. Bulgaria H (dire)

Yeah, but in Slovakia Duffy did a last gasp save when the goal was inminent. This is a result sport. we need 3 points