B Teams

[D24Saint]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/airtricity-league-clubs-to-express-interest-in-entering-b-teams-into-first-division-1.4412407

I'm not 100% certain but I would imagine we wont show any interest.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The brief glut of applications last week must not have been that impressive to the FAI.

[pineapple stu]

So is the FD turning into the old LoI B Division again?

Not sure at what point does the second tier reach an actionable crisis point?

[Yossarian]

If you presume the nine current first division teams are not going anywhere and that Rovers are happy to continue there with their B team does that mean the FAI are actively looking to increase the teams in the division? Or was the original invitation to apply in order to take Rovers place?

[Nesta99]

This is an obvious shortcut to adding to player development pathway but instead of broadening the structures for clubs, where young players can get 1st team competative football, its narrowing things so that a few clubs can both sign up the cream of talent and give them football. It fits nicely in to the SRFC project, likewise for where Dundalk want to get to in trying to be self sustaining and others too especially in regional centres. Makes some of the more unusual overtures to setting up a club to join LoI a bit less..unusual, and it is a selling point for bringing in players from a wider market in hope of cashing in on the odd success. This in mind, the gap between 1st Division and Premier Division clubs politically is only going to widen so this could be a bit of a last stand moment for any remaining integrity of the 1st Div.

[Mr A]

I am reasonably confident that Harps will not avail of this option.

[D24Saint]

How many first team players can play every week ?

[EatYerGreens]

The brief glut of applications last week must not have been that impressive to the FAI.

Either that, or they're trying to get the First Division back up to 12 teams again. Which is where it should be really.

[EatYerGreens]

Apparently Shelbourne have submitted an application for their First team to avail of the opportunity.

[MKMK]

Maybe its time the FAI got real about the league and allowed all clubs have an equal say in the discussions. Would it not be good to see a Limerick team back in the league and maybe a team from the Kildare Carlow Laois area as well as a team from Mayo area. The pushing out of soccer across the country is what should be done and a real effort put into getting a sponsor for it and real media profile for both divisiions.

[Real ale Madrid]

Surely a move to 2 12 team divisions is the only sensible one going forward.

Premier
Shamrock Rovers
Bohemians
Dundalk
Sligo Rovers
Waterford
St. Patrick's Athletic
Derry City
Finn Harps
Shelbourne
Cork City
Drogheda United
Longford Town

First Division
Bray Wanderers
UCD
Galway United
Cobh Ramblers
Cabinteely
Athlone Town
Wexford
North Sea AFC
YOLO FC
Shamrock Rovers B
Dundalk B
Bohemians Hipster Reserve FC (Not a B team)

[EatYerGreens]

Maybe its time the FAI got real about the league and allowed all clubs have an equal say in the discussions. Would it not be good to see a Limerick team back in the league and maybe a team from the Kildare Carlow Laois area as well as a team from Mayo area. The pushing out of soccer across the country is what should be done and a real effort put into getting a sponsor for it and real media profile for both divisiions.

A Limerick team applied to join the league prior to the deadline for doing so. They haven't been rejected yet.

No application was received from any teams in Mayo or Kildare/Carlow/Laois. You cant; magic a club up out of thin air. Nor can you make people in certain areas apply to join.

[Mr A]

A Limerick team applied to join the league prior to the deadline for doing so. They haven't been rejected yet.

No application was received from any teams in Mayo or Kildare/Carlow/Laois. You cant; magic a club up out of thin air. Nor can you make people in certain areas apply to join.

When Derry City folded the deadline was passed but next year a new version was in the league. Teams can sometimes be magiced up albeit not quite out of thin air. But your overall point stands.

[Kiki Balboa]

B teams are a bad idea. Playing against them only weakens the reputation of the clubs in the first. How can teams like Galway, Cork or Shels attract new fans when they are playing Dundalk 'B'.

In saying that, there is an obvious problem with underage football in LOI, that the gap between u19 to senior is too big, and there needs to be something inbetween.The aim should be reintroduction of the 'A' league. Or at least a way for clubs to introduce a 'B' team in provencial leagues (that needs an agreement with fixture dates).

[sbgawa]

10 existing teams plus the 5 or 6 applications they have had plus 3 b teams is 19/20 teams
Division 1 and 2 ...
happy days

[EatYerGreens]

10 existing teams plus the 5 or 6 applications they have had plus 3 b teams is 19/20 teams
Division 1 and 2 ...
happy days

They've apparently had 4 applications = Treaty United, St Francis, Yola and Irish Sea. Of those, I suspect that Irish Sea FC is nowhere near a developed enough proposal to let them near the senior game. They don't even have a ground or a single player at this stage.

[nigel-harps1954]

They've apparently had 4 applications = Treaty United, St Francis, Yola and Irish Sea. Of those, I suspect that Irish Sea FC is nowhere near a developed enough proposal to let them near the senior game. They don't even have a ground or a single player at this stage.

I have my own suspicion that Irish Sea FC are linking up with Home Farm. Based on absolutely nothing..

Yola FC are effectively looking to take Wexford FC place.

Realistically, we'll probably see just Treaty United in there and another B team and the others being told to try again next year.

[Longfordian]

I am reasonably confident that Harps will not avail of this option.

I'm extremely confident we won't be. Though you'd almost have to admire the nerve if we did given how strongly we opposed the entry of Rovers Dos.

[Dr. football]

I can see it now, another new club “Cork North End B”

12 teams playing 3 times and premier 10 teams playing 4 times or maybe a 2nd division of 10 teams!

[EatYerGreens]

Is there anything to be said for a 'Shamrock Rovers II' team being added to the league ?

[vinnie]

From my understanding, Rovers ii have been told if any teams apply, their membership might be in trouble, if they have a viable other option, but at the moment we have nothing to worry about because there isn't a viable option, this could change before the start of the season, but who knows

[Longfordian]

Is there anything to be said for a 'Shamrock Rovers II' team being added to the league ?

Rovers 2 squared.

[Briuk]

At the moment to add "B" teams seems the only option to increase the number of clubs and thats the only way to go to improve the league and the football scene in the country. If we could just get enough teams to regionalize the second division 16? 8-8 it would be great to go on the way for a third tier, which is very necessary and would help to get smaller towns in. Moreover a regionalized league could be more interesting for Leinster and Munster sides

[EatYerGreens]

LEAGUE of IRELAND FIRST DIVISION TABLE- 2025

1. Shamrock Rovers.
2. Shamrock Rovers Reserves
3. Shamrock Rovers B
4. Shamrock Rovers II
5. Shamrock Rovers 2nd XI.
6. Shamrock Rangers.
7. Shamrock Rioters.
8. Ruagirí na Seamroigé.
9. Tallaght Shamrocks.
10.Irish Sea Saint Home Farm Everton Treaty Yola FC*

* (Deducted 22pts for not having the correct colour of corner flags. Not re-elected)

[sbgawa]

At the moment to add "B" teams seems the only option to increase the number of clubs and thats the only way to go to improve the league and the football scene in the country. If we could just get enough teams to regionalize the second division 16? 8-8 it would be great to go on the way for a third tier, which is very necessary and would help to get smaller towns in. Moreover a regionalized league could be more interesting for Leinster and Munster sides

I agree, the current 10 + 6 more between new applicants and B teams and we have the makings of a decent size first division or a regionalized version of it.
The B teams are needed for clubs who are properly investing in their academies as otherwise having developed kids from 12 or 13 (or earlier) you lose them to a lower Premier or first division team who offer them "senior football" before they are ready to play in the First team for their original club.

[LFC Blue]

Premier
Shamrock Rovers
Bohemians
Dundalk
Sligo Rovers
Waterford
St. Patrick's Athletic
Derry City
Finn Harps
Drogheda United
Longford Town

First Division
Cork
Shels
Bray Wanderers
UCD
Galway United
Cobh Ramblers
Cabinteely
Athlone


2nd Division
Wexford
Treaty Utd
St Francis
Shamrock Rovers B
Dundalk B
Bohemians B
North Sea FC

[EatYerGreens]

First Division
Cork
Shels
Bray Wanderers
UCD
Galway United
Cobh Ramblers
Cabinteely
Athlone


2nd Division
Wexford
Treaty Utd
St Francis
Shamrock Rovers B
Dundalk B
Bohemians B
North Sea FC

An 8 team second tier and a 7 team third tier ?!

[LFC Blue]

An 8 team second tier and a 7 team third tier ?!

I ran out of teams 🤷*♂️

[EatYerGreens]

I ran out of teams 路*♂️

You sound like John Delaney/the FAI.

You didn't open the floodgates for Irish Sea FC then ?

[LFC Blue]

A third tier would add a bit of extra competition to the first division atleast.

[sbgawa]

i would start with a 15 or 16 team first division next year if possible and let it be known that the top 8 will qualify for the new division 1 the following year with the bottom 7/8 + any new teams making up the division 2.
Maximum of 1 b team in the first division in year two (so the b teams would have their own mini league) as you dont want a first division of 8 teams with 3 of them b teams.
I know that doesnt regionalize things but i think a better standard first division is better then 2 medicore regionalized varients.

[Briuk]

i would start with a 15 or 16 team first division next year if possible and let it be known that the top 8 will qualify for the new division 1 the following year with the bottom 7/8 + any new teams making up the division 2.
Maximum of 1 b team in the first division in year two (so the b teams would have their own mini league) as you dont want a first division of 8 teams with 3 of them b teams.
I know that doesnt regionalize things but i think a better standard first division is better then 2 medicore regionalized varients.

For me the way to go at least at the moment would be a 1st phase regionalized 8-8 and then a split for promotion. You could do that until getting more clubs in.

[GUFCghost]

I don't know a lot about intermediate football, but from having a look on wikipedia it seems that the Munster league is heavily weighted towards Cork. As is Ulster to Donegal and Leinster to Dublin.

Maybe this level needs to be reformed as-well? Three regional leagues for West, East & South. Clubs that show potential at this level could then make the jump to a properly maintained first division. I still think our goal as a league should be a semi-pro first division and a full pro premier.

[Dr. football]

I don't know a lot about intermediate football, but from having a look on wikipedia it seems that the Munster league is heavily weighted towards Cork. As is Ulster to Donegal and Leinster to Dublin.

Maybe this level needs to be reformed as-well? Three regional leagues for West, East & South. Clubs that show potential at this level could then make the jump to a properly maintained first division. I still think our goal as a league should be a semi-pro first division and a full pro premier.


All comes down to money again really. Travel cost would be high for that. Would need to be backed by the FAI. Standard wise would be a massive difference between senior clubs and 1st division clubs but i think would be a big step. Your correct in what you are calling for but it needs to be separate form msl/lsl/usl. Needs to be run by the fai. Like an a league type set up based geography. Maybe try rob few clubs from the Irish league too 😂

[Dr. football]

All comes down to money again really. Travel cost would be high for that. Would need to be backed by the FAI. Standard wise would be a massive difference between senior clubs and 1st division clubs but i think would be a big step. Your correct in what you are calling for but it needs to be separate form msl/lsl/usl. Needs to be run by the fai. Like an a league type set up based geography. Maybe try rob few clubs from the Irish league too 😂

I really think FAI should be looking to tap into the 3rd level soccer and try get a few more teams like with UCD, great for young players be in a professional set up while studying for a degree.

Ucc
Carlow it
Uuj
Maynooth
Dcu
Tralee
Sligo
Galway
UL


Add in the 3/4 b teams plus likes a Mayo/ Monaghan, Kilkenny, limerick, Kerry.

Would have lots of option for larger leagues or maybe regional lower division etc

[EatYerGreens]

I really think FAI should be looking to tap into the 3rd level soccer and try get a few more teams like with UCD, great for young players be in a professional set up while studying for a degree.

Ucc
Carlow it
Uuj
Maynooth
Dcu
Tralee
Sligo
Galway
UL


Add in the 3/4 b teams plus likes a Mayo/ Monaghan, Kilkenny, limerick, Kerry.

Would have lots of option for larger leagues or maybe regional lower division etc

That'd be an awful idea in fairness. Irish people have no personal affinity with the educational institutions that just happen to be in their area, and even those who currently or previously attended them have limited emotional ties to them as well. Most spend every weekend getting away from their university town and back to their village in the arse end of nowhere to see the same faces they've seen all their lives and so their mammy can wash their socks for them. So these teams would be pretty much guaranteed to have no support.

Football is supposed to be all about the fans. And Irish football already has enough teams who don't really have any fans.

[sbgawa]

That'd be an awful idea in fairness. Irish people have no personal affinity with the educational institutions that just happen to be in their area, and even those who currently or previously attended them have limited emotional ties to them as well. Most spend every weekend getting away from their university town and back to their village in the arse end of nowhere to see the same faces they've seen all their lives and so their mammy can wash their socks for them. So these teams would be pretty much guaranteed to have no support.

Football is supposed to be all about the fans. And Irish football already has enough teams who don't really have any fans.


Bonus 5% in your exams if you can produce 10 ticket stubs for home matches.

No charge for the idea Stu :)

[EatYerGreens]

Bonus 5% in your exams if you can produce 10 ticket stubs for home matches.

No charge for the idea Stu :)

The only thing that would increase would be the profits of various printing and copy outlets, and not the clubs themselves.

[sbgawa]

The only thing that would increase would be the profits of various printing and copy outlets, and not the clubs themselves.

Selfie at match?

[MKMK]

I am not suggesting that people are forced into the league but surely the objective at the top of the FAI should be to encourage the spread of the game and create conditions that allows and promoites teams to enter the league. Why not have a complete merit based league so that the best team can be proimoted from whatever league they are in as in Germany. I agree that you would need your head examined if you were to put a team in the league unless you had a large fortune that you wanted to make into a small fortune
The FAI has to get serious about the League of Ireland and that means proper sponsors, prizemoney etc. Winning the Premier gets a club pocket money. The only incentive is to get into Europe. The League title should have real value on its own.

[EatYerGreens]

We have a fundamental problem in Irish football. If we go down the pyramid route, we end up with teams that are good on the pitch at an intermediate level but will struggle at a senior level - and invariably have no fans. Worst still they'll end up all being from the same place - like the one time when we actually did have a pyramid and we ended up with 3 clubs in Galway city. Ridiculous. So it's all very well to say that the pyramid route works everywhere else - we're not everywhere else. We have a small population, and football is only one of 4 domestic sports that attract good crowds (with football actually being the 4th best-supported of those). Nowhere else in Europe has that situation.

Conversely - the approach we've tried for years of waiting until someone goes bust, and then giving their space to whoever just happens to want it at the time hasn't exactly worked for us either. The only expansions that have worked IMO have been 1984 and 1985 - which were part of a planned process. 1984 saw Cork and Longford join - both of whom are still in the league. 1985 saw Bray, Derry, Cobh, Monaghan, EMFA and Newcastle join - half of whom are still in the league 35yrs later, and 2 further lasted over 20yrs and may some day return. There has never been a period of such major numerical expansion in the LOI since it was formed, and it has also resulted in 5 long-lasting teams being introduced to the league. So the bottom line for me is that planning new entrants is the key.

So this is what I would do if I was the FAI :

1) Conduct an analysis of locations around the country which don't currently have an LOI team, but on-paper would have a chance of making one last. Looking at population, strength of the game locally vs other sports, distance form existing LOI teams etc. (e.g. Navan, Tralee, Mullingar, Castlebar, Tullamore ?)
2) Look at what existing junior or intermediate clubs in that area could have the potential to take the step up over time. i.e. are well-run, ambitious, have decent facilities - or at least have some of those qualities.
3) Approach those clubs directly, say that the FAI wants the League to expand to X teams by 2025 and Y teams by 2030, and ask would they be interested in being one of a number of 'contender/candidate clubs' for that. That's not a commitment from either those clubs or the FAI that they WILL join the LOI btw. Just a commitment that they'll go on a journey together to improve themselves so they're in a position where they could potentially join in the future
4) For those who are interested - develop a clear strategy for what they are currently good at and less good, and what they need to do to get themselves ready for the senior game in either 5 or 10 years time. FAI funding would help with the facilities aspect, but the clubs would also be expected to raise their own money to show they can become sustainable. They should also be helped on youth academies, revenue-generation, etc etc
5) Review the progress of these clubs on a regular basis, and not be afraid to say to any of them where they're under-performing, or if it just isn't going to happen for them realistically.
6) Let these clubs enter the League Cup automatically after a few years, to start blooding them against senior opposition. And also hold an annual tournament amongst all the candidate clubs to encourage them all to step up vs each other.
7) By the start of the 2024 season everyone involved should be clear on if and who is ready to join the league the following season, And again in 2028/2029 for the clubs that join in 2030.
8) The clubs that go through this process - all or part of the way - will be left in a better position as a result, even if they don't join the LOI. Football will have been improved even if it ends up adding no-one to the league.

So that's my proposal to square the current circle of saying we should have a pyramid, when it clearly won't work, but the current situation isn't working either. Let's create a strong and credible conveyer belt of candidate clubs in a strategic plan with long-term timescales. Let's encourage new clubs in fertile ground where they have at least a reasonable chance of growing sustainable support bases and succeeding. No more Mervues, NewcastleWests or St Francis's please.

[Dr. football]

We have a fundamental problem in Irish football. If we go down the pyramid route, we end up with teams that are good on the pitch at an intermediate level but will struggle at a senior level - and invariably have no fans. Worst still they'll end up all being from the same place - like the one time when we actually did have a pyramid and we ended up with 3 clubs in Galway city. Ridiculous. So it's all very well to say that the pyramid route works everywhere else - we're not everywhere else. We have a small population, and football is only one of 4 domestic sports that attract good crowds (with football actually being the 4th best-supported of those). Nowhere else in Europe has that situation.

Conversely - the approach we've tried for years of waiting until someone goes bust, and then giving their space to whoever just happens to want it at the time hasn't exactly worked for us either. The only expansions that have worked IMO have been 1984 and 1985 - which were part of a planned process. 1984 saw Cork and Longford join - both of whom are still in the league. 1985 saw Bray, Derry, Cobh, Monaghan, EMFA and Newcastle join - half of whom are still in the league 35yrs later, and 2 further lasted over 20yrs and may some day return. There has never been a period of such major numerical expansion in the LOI since it was formed, and it has also resulted in 5 long-lasting teams being introduced to the league. So the bottom line for me is that planning new entrants is the key.

So this is what I would do if I was the FAI :

1) Conduct an analysis of locations around the country which don't currently have an LOI team, but on-paper would have a chance of making one last. Looking at population, strength of the game locally vs other sports, distance form existing LOI teams etc. (e.g. Navan, Tralee, Mullingar, Castlebar, Tullamore ?)
2) Look at what existing junior or intermediate clubs in that area could have the potential to take the step up over time. i.e. are well-run, ambitious, have decent facilities - or at least have some of those qualities.
3) Approach those clubs directly, say that the FAI wants the League to expand to X teams by 2025 and Y teams by 2030, and ask would they be interested in being one of a number of 'contender/candidate clubs' for that. That's not a commitment from either those clubs or the FAI that they WILL join the LOI btw. Just a commitment that they'll go on a journey together to improve themselves so they're in a position where they could potentially join in the future
4) For those who are interested - develop a clear strategy for what they are currently good at and less good, and what they need to do to get themselves ready for the senior game in either 5 or 10 years time. FAI funding would help with the facilities aspect, but the clubs would also be expected to raise their own money to show they can become sustainable. They should also be helped on youth academies, revenue-generation, etc etc
5) Review the progress of these clubs on a regular basis, and not be afraid to say to any of them where they're under-performing, or if it just isn't going to happen for them realistically.
6) Let these clubs enter the League Cup automatically after a few years, to start blooding them against senior opposition. And also hold an annual tournament amongst all the candidate clubs to encourage them all to step up vs each other.
7) By the start of the 2024 season everyone involved should be clear on if and who is ready to join the league the following season, And again in 2028/2029 for the clubs that join in 2030.
8) The clubs that go through this process - all or part of the way - will be left in a better position as a result, even if they don't join the LOI. Football will have been improved even if it ends up adding no-one to the league.

So that's my proposal to square the current circle of saying we should have a pyramid, when it clearly won't work, but the current situation isn't working either. Let's create a strong and credible conveyer belt of candidate clubs in a strategic plan with long-term timescales. Let's encourage new clubs in fertile ground where they have at least a reasonable chance of growing sustainable support bases and succeeding. No more Mervues, NewcastleWests or St Francis's please.

Great points. Population is too small for a pyramid system.

Even approach a couple for teams in an area or a league set up like Kerry league and ask them to work together in getting a team.

[pineapple stu]

If the population is too small for a pyramid system, why does every other country in Europe operate one?

Iceland, Luxembourg, Malta, Georgia, Wales, NI - all smaller than Ireland and all with fully-integrated pyramid systems allowing any ambitious club a clear path from bottom to top

[Dr. football]

That'd be an awful idea in fairness. Irish people have no personal affinity with the educational institutions that just happen to be in their area, and even those who currently or previously attended them have limited emotional ties to them as well. Most spend every weekend getting away from their university town and back to their village in the arse end of nowhere to see the same faces they've seen all their lives and so their mammy can wash their socks for them. So these teams would be pretty much guaranteed to have no support.

Football is supposed to be all about the fans. And Irish football already has enough teams who don't really have any fans.


Is it though? All the 3rd level have players possible have them on scholarships already, gives them a chance at been professional footballer and get an education.

Most 3rd level have top facilities.

Have a link with the college and local under age teams you’d never no it could take off, the funding from the department of education would certainly be more viable for a team in say Carlow it to last in the league. No other team in the area at LOI level why wouldn’t it work?

[GUFCghost]

Most of those countries have a much stronger tradition of domestic football and more urban populations.
We're in a unique position. Football is very popular but the domestic league is poorly attended, mostly because of neglect. We don't even have a strong tradition of any kind of club sport. Irish fans are use to watching provincial/county sides.

Our goal should be a full time premier division and a part time first division. Allowing housing estates in Galway with no stadia to join the first division won't help with this.
This can be best achieved by carefully planning out where clubs can be successful. We need proper regional intermediate leagues where potential senior clubs can play before making the jump to senior football. EatYerGreens made a lot of really great points in house.

[pineapple stu]

We're in a unique position. Football is very popular but the domestic league is poorly attended,
That's not remotely unique. Lots of countries have poorly-attended domestic leagues, particularly as you go further east in Europe. Lots of countries have little tradition of club support, particularly in the ex-Soviet states where the one big club - Dynamo Kyiv and Ararat Yerevan probably the most obvious two - were de facto national sides and very few other clubs were well-supported at all.

We need to ditch this idea that we're unique. We're not.

Put a proper structure in place - like in every other country - which allows and (importantly) encourages existing clubs to grow. New clubs will emerge naturally then.

A third tier of college clubs or B teams will do nothing but create another level in a failed league structure. Parachuting new clubs into the graveyard has failed almost every time yet people are still suggesting it. Cabo could have had potential as a senior club except (a) their facilities were ****e and discouraged fans from going and (b) they weren't competitive because they were bumped up from nowhere, and interest fell away. Instead give them a title the previous season and a competitive team and they'd have fared better. Maybe not great, but better

[EatYerGreens]

If the population is too small for a pyramid system, why does every other country in Europe operate one?

Iceland, Luxembourg, Malta, Georgia, Wales, NI - all smaller than Ireland and all with fully-integrated pyramid systems allowing any ambitious club a clear path from bottom to top

How many of those countries have football as their fourth most popular spectator sport domestically though ?

That's the killer when combined with a small population. It effectively reduces significantly the population that our clubs can appeal to. Essentially making us a much smaller country in reality than the census says we are.

We tried a pyramid before, and it gave us 3 teams in Galway city. We've also tried de-facto pyramids before - which was the multiple times we've let in the best teams from the Leinster Senior League (e.g. St James's Gate, St Francis) whenever we needed to fill a gap. All these approaches failed. Blindly hoping that promoting whichever club happens to be one of the best in the intermediate game (and willing to join) will stop the century-long history of mayfly clubs is extremely naïve IMO. Because it hasn't worked before.

We need to try something different. Something logical and strategic which at least increases the chances that any new entrants will have a fighting chance of long-term sustainability.

As an aside - another issue with the countries you listed is that the gap in resources and support between new entries from their pyramid and the teams at the top of those leagues are not as big as in our league. We could well have St Francis from the LSL joining just one tier below a team that is in the Europa League. Wales has a big gap in standard between its top team (TNS) and the promoted teams into the Cymru Premier, but there is no depth to that league (the other teams are pretty much sh!te, even Connah's Quay). And the gap in support between clubs in Wales is so minimal as to be of almost no financial significance. It's not like TNS are getting thousands more at games than newly promoted Flint Town United. Contrast with Shamrock Rovers vs St Francis or Cabinteely.

[EatYerGreens]

Is it though? All the 3rd level have players possible have them on scholarships already, gives them a chance at been professional footballer and get an education.

Most 3rd level have top facilities.

Have a link with the college and local under age teams you’d never no it could take off, the funding from the department of education would certainly be more viable for a team in say Carlow it to last in the league. No other team in the area at LOI level why wouldn’t it work?

It all comes down to whether you want a league of teams with ok facilities and just ok players.

Or a league with fans, good facilities and clubs that can genuinely improve on the pitch (ideally over time to a professional level) and make progress in Europe over time.

Because you're less likely to get the latter with more college-based teams in the league. They won't draw a crowd, and won't invest in their stadia beyond a basic level (because that's all they need with few fans).

In my view we have enough clubs in the league already who are essentially just making up the numbers and doing little or nothing to make the domestic game more attractive in their area.

[EalingGreen]

So it's all very well to say that the pyramid route works everywhere else - we're not everywhere else. We have a small population, and football is only one of 4 domestic sports that attract good crowds (with football actually being the 4th best-supported of those). Nowhere else in Europe has that situation.

I can't comment on Iceland, Luxembourg, Malta, Georgia, Wales (as per P.Stu), but you already have a directly comparable example, right on your doorstep. And while Hurling is no big deal in NI, our population is less than half of yours, not so wealthy, with the same one big city dominating (not Bangor, btw) and the same "pull" from across the Irish Sea.
Yet we have now built a very healthy pyramid, with the various divisions reasonably competitive within themselves and the member clubs pretty stable.

Or look a little further to Scotland, which has only a slightly bigger population, and if it doesn't have Gaelic games, or much rugby, does have two giant clubs which dominate the domestic scene to a huge extent, all in a country which is much more spread out geographically.
Yet they manage to operate a pyramid with a 4 x division senior league, above the Highland and Lowland Leagues (fifth tier), plus another 8 Divisions down to tiers six and seven.

Both countries have worked very hard in recent years to develop and refine their respective systems, with reasonable success in the main, so it can be done.



Conversely - the approach we've tried for years of waiting until someone goes bust, and then giving their space to whoever just happens to want it at the time hasn't exactly worked for us either. The only expansions that have worked IMO have been 1984 and 1985 - which were part of a planned process. 1984 saw Cork and Longford join - both of whom are still in the league. 1985 saw Bray, Derry, Cobh, Monaghan, EMFA and Newcastle join - half of whom are still in the league 35yrs later, and 2 further lasted over 20yrs and may some day return. There has never been a period of such major numerical expansion in the LOI since it was formed, and it has also resulted in 5 long-lasting teams being introduced to the league. So the bottom line for me is that planning new entrants is the key.

The big successes were Cork - which should never not have had a top level club (imo) - and Derry, which only came about by happenstance. And while Bray and Longford have done ok (tbf), they've hardly pulled up any trees, while the others all failed (as did later pop-up clubs like Dublin City etc). And as you say, that was over a third of a century ago.


So this is what I would do if I was the FAI :

2) Look at what existing junior or intermediate clubs in that area could have the potential to take the step up over time. i.e. are well-run, ambitious, have decent facilities - or at least have some of those qualities.
3) Approach those clubs directly, say that the FAI wants the League to expand to X teams by 2025 and Y teams by 2030, and ask would they be interested in being one of a number of 'contender/candidate clubs' for that. That's not a commitment from either those clubs or the FAI that they WILL join the LOI btw. Just a commitment that they'll go on a journey together to improve themselves so they're in a position where they could potentially join in the future
4) For those who are interested - develop a clear strategy for what they are currently good at and less good, and what they need to do to get themselves ready for the senior game in either 5 or 10 years time. FAI funding would help with the facilities aspect, but the clubs would also be expected to raise their own money to show they can become sustainable. They should also be helped on youth academies, revenue-generation, etc etc

I'm genuinely not out to have a pop, but if there are clubs out there with potential etfc, why do they need to be approached by the FAI? Why aren't they banging on the door at Abbotstown to find out what they must do to get into the First Division etc? It's tempting to think that if they have to be asked, then maybe they don't posess the necessary wherewithal in the first place.

(Btw, I only comment because I'm a bit of a football nerd generally, but also because indirectly at least, this has implications for any all-Ireland League which might develop.)

[EalingGreen]

Wales has a big gap in standard between its top team (TNS) and the promoted teams into the Cymru Premier, but there is no depth to that league (the other teams are pretty much sh!te, even Connah's Quay). And the gap in support between clubs in Wales is so minimal as to be of almost no financial significance. It's not like TNS are getting thousands more at games than newly promoted Flint Town United. Contrast with Shamrock Rovers vs St Francis or Cabinteely.
You overlook the fact that Cardiff and Swansea, the two biggest Welsh clubs by far, play in the English system, as do the next three biggest clubs, Newport, Wrexham and Merthyr.
And, of course, much of the rest of the English system is just an easy drive away, so it's relatively easy for those clubs' fans to travel/receive away support.