View Full Version : Official Crisis at Shels?
No win in 6 i think including 4 defeats.
Three 0-2 defeats at home in a row...
Will Ollie stick with Fenlon or sack him?
A face
11/06/2005, 1:30 PM
He'd be mad to lose faith in him in fairness, it is one bad run ..... anyway .... i think hes doing a great job !! :p
Poor Student
11/06/2005, 1:41 PM
I don't know if this is tongue in cheek or you're just rubbing it in as a Cork lad but there's no way they won't be sticking with him. The league is still well within Shels grasp. While they were not good against UCD you could see an underlying potential in them to come great again. Ndo in full flight is class at this level. Crowe and Byrne in full form could be lethal and when Heary is back they'll stiffen up at the back. If Shels can ride out the bad patch and hit early season form they could claim top spot again. Also it remains to be seen how they will do in the CL. Shels and Fenlon still have a big season ahead of them and the chance to still achieve a good deal.
De Town
11/06/2005, 1:42 PM
Will Ollie stick with Fenlon or sack him?
I was thinking that while watching the match last night. Fenlon seems to be feeling the pressure. Its great to see them arguing with eachother aswell (Crawford and Rogers) :D
I love seeing the team with all the money/players doing sh1t. I hope Derry win the League though if its not us ;)
Slash/ED
11/06/2005, 1:47 PM
I don't know if this is tongue in cheek or you're just rubbing it in as a Cork lad but there's no way they won't be sticking with him. The league is still well within Shels grasp. While they were not good against UCD you could see an underlying potential in them to come great again. Ndo in full flight is class at this level. Crowe and Byrne in full form could be lethal and when Heary is back they'll stiffen up at the back. If Shels can ride out the bad patch and hit early season form they could claim top spot again. Also it remains to be seen how they will do in the CL. Shels and Fenlon still have a big season ahead of them and the chance to still achieve a good deal.
Yeah I agree with all of that. It's a bad run of form, I know it's easy to say but really the lucks been against us in many of the matches, though we have been poor but even so there's been some flashes which if we can get more consistently we'll have no problems.
It's the right time to have the bad patch, but it needs to be turned around soon. The game against Rovers will be a good one.
Ollie Byrne isn't exactly a hands off Chairman/CEO/Secretary & i think he hangs around the dressing room & players a lot. Fenlons comments recently seem to indicate a lot of pressure on him...
I don't think too many shels players injured now but just in sh!te form.
Poor Student
11/06/2005, 1:54 PM
Slash what's the story with Ndo? Is he finally fully fit? For a 15 min period of the UCD game in the 2nd half he was immense and everything went through him and you scored. Then he just faded out and your team went quiet again.
Pete with the money outlayed by Shels in this league any manager would be under pressure.
Slash/ED
11/06/2005, 2:10 PM
Slash what's the story with Ndo? Is he finally fully fit? For a 15 min period of the UCD game in the 2nd half he was immense and everything went through him and you scored. Then he just faded out and your team went quiet again.
Pete with the money outlayed by Shels in this league any manager would be under pressure.
He's finally fully fit now yeah, I just think he can be a bit lazy more than anything else, so he seems to fade in and out of games. But when he's on song, he's absolutley incredible.
I don't think too many shels players injured now but just in sh!te form.
With the squad we have it's no excuse but there has been injuries over this period. Jason Byrne, Crowe, Hoolahan, Baker, Cahill, Crawley, Harris, Heary, Rogers, O'Neill, Fitzpatrick and Hawkins have all been injured (Or in Hawkins case, suspended).
Enough to stretch any squad, but even it's no excuse as we have plenty of cover.
Gerrit
11/06/2005, 2:44 PM
Don't like the word crisis really. We're still in the top of the table with only Cork really ahead of us, so why talking of crisis ? A few weeks without win happens to every team, and our injuries are an excuse somewhat.
Anyway, NO WAY we should ditch Fenlon. That would be the most stupid thing ever done at Richmond Road :eek:
Don't like the word crisis really. We're still in the top of the table with only Cork really ahead of us,
strange that you'd dismiss Derry so easily after last night
Speranza
11/06/2005, 4:25 PM
It's the norm on this forum to dismiss us. According to most we will fade away whent the reality is that after a third of the season we deserve to be where we are and we will be top 3 at the end. $hels are falling apart, take away Houlihan and they had no attacking threat last night.
thejollyrodger
11/06/2005, 4:46 PM
For me its all about Europe. If we do well in Europe and not win the EL i will think we have made more progress than last year TBH.
Progress in Europe would be getting to the third round in the CL - Meet Man Utd - Losing and then qualifying for the UEFA Cup group stages. To be honest though, i dont know if we can really do that, the new players arent settling in just yet and there is some major teams in the second round.
I think its more likey that we meet a big team (liverpool Celtic etc) in the 2nd round - play very well maybe even get a draw or win at home and then lose away.
Still we can go on and win the EL. We wont crack Europe that easily. Talk of Nutsy going is complete nonsense. Were bound to suffer a dip in form after last season. Hopefully we can just ride it out.
Anto McC
11/06/2005, 5:17 PM
The league is the most important imo
MariborKev
11/06/2005, 11:42 PM
While in no way seeking to rub in the victory of last night if I was a Shels fan I would have some concerns.
The behaviour of Dave Rodgers when he was substituted last night when there was an "incident" with Crawford and his petulance would suggest that all is not well in the Shels camp.
The Shels fans on their own site have identified this already and I am sure that it will probably be sorted but it showed that the side that everyone thought would be out of sight this year is developing a few cracks
For me its all about Europe. If we do well in Europe and not win the EL i will think we have made more progress than last year TBH.Are you mad?! If you concentrate on Europe, you could find yourselves without european football next season, and that ain't gonna help. IMO, Shels are gonna have to put a run together something like we did at the end of last season to get back on track, and its a big, big ask.
Gerrit
12/06/2005, 5:23 PM
I am not dismissing Derry, the Shels program had a table in it with SFC in second place and Derry in third. I think Derry will finish top-3 this season, they were very efficient last Friday. Every attack was dangerous, they caused mayhem in our (badly performing) defense every time they went in attack.
They would deserve the top-3 if only for their fans, I was very impressed by their vocal support.
Slash/ED
12/06/2005, 5:27 PM
Are you mad?! If you concentrate on Europe, you could find yourselves without european football next season, and that ain't gonna help. IMO, Shels are gonna have to put a run together something like we did at the end of last season to get back on track, and its a big, big ask.
To make up 5 points off the top with two matches still to come against the leaders Cork? Not really. 5 points at this stage is not much at all.
Its not just the number of points, its the performances as well.....
Point I was making is that you have to make the league your no.1 priority- concentrating on europe is a bad idea IMO
Slash/ED
12/06/2005, 5:32 PM
Oh yeah you're right there, the league is the priority and always has been.
And the performances have in the main been poor but there have been flashes of potential. We'll come good and when we do we'll be better than we were last year.
thejollyrodger
12/06/2005, 6:34 PM
well the way i see it, is , say we get into the group stages of the UEFA/CL and get €4million quid. That would go along way in streghten the squad, raising the profile of irish soccer and maybe even help build our new stadium. Winning the EL wont do any of this. We have our seeding for 5 years, so if we win the EL within another 5 years we get to keep it AFAIK.
But if we don't win the EL we don't play CL next year. Just a thought...
well the way i see it, is , say we get into the group stages of the UEFA/CL and get €4million quid. That would go along way in streghten the squad, raising the profile of irish soccer and maybe even help build our new stadium. Winning the EL wont do any of this. We have our seeding for 5 years, so if we win the EL within another 5 years we get to keep it AFAIK.
You need to come back to reality.
To reach CL group stages the easiest (lowest seeded) teams you'd have to beat would be Vålerengen in round 2 & Rosenborg in round 3.
Reality is making 2nd round at minimum & being competitive or drawing big team for tv cash.
Groups stages of UEFA Cup won't get anything like €4m. Ye only got 8k at home Lille game i think & tv compnaies don't queue up for the UEFA Cup.
:rolleyes:
well the way i see it, is , say we get into the group stages of the UEFA/CL and get €4million quid. That would go along way in streghten the squad, raising the profile of irish soccer and maybe even help build our new stadium. Winning the EL wont do any of this. We have our seeding for 5 years, so if we win the EL within another 5 years we get to keep it AFAIK.
Yeah, but you have to win the league to get into the CL. If you got in the group stages this year (HIGHLY unlikely) and didn't win the league, it would be worth **** all...
Clones Road Cas
12/06/2005, 9:11 PM
If i remember correctly Pat is on a very long term contract with shells. If Ollie tried to fire him it might prove very expensive,
Slash/ED
12/06/2005, 9:14 PM
Lucky he wont be doing that then. There's not a hope in hell of Fenlon going, talk about over reaction.
If i remember correctly Pat is on a very long term contract with shells. If Ollie tried to fire him it might prove very expensive,
5 1/2 years left I think. And to that is say... Excellent.
All this talk of turfing him out is rubbish. He's been great for us so far, and can only get better. :cool:
Gareth
13/06/2005, 7:45 AM
My opinion on the current team and how they are playing:
Owen Heary's absence has been shockingly expensive in some respects. 3 of the goals we conceded in the games came from his side and would usually have been handled before getting near. Our defence has been poor in general for the goals. The two Derry goals were embarrassingly poor defending (not picking up men and failing to clear after numerous chances to). Maybe the poor defensive form is down to so many changes. Each game the defence seems different and is changed during the game. Compare that to last season and we had a very set back four.
Midfield, well we have failed to play thru midfield this year with too much long balls and lack of enforcement on the game in the middle. We have too many players that look good on paper but are not strong enough to take control of the middle.
Up front we have failed to get going. Richie Baker is our top scorer, but we have no forawrd who looks like they could bang in a few this season yet. Jason Byrne is having a terrible season.
I think the squad size is a problem and I feared this. We are chopping and changing alot. Injuries haven't helped but if the squad is fit for 5 weeks in a row, can you see the same team and bench?
Our overall standard of football has been poor. Its not very attractive to watch and worse, our crowds are dwindling. Its well noted we don't have a large attending support and they are very quiet too.
In a previous post someone said europe is more important than the league. Not at all. With the CL position, a place in the Setanta, the new league winning money and the continued position as champions, the league is vital!!!
Fenlon has made a mistake in getting loads of extra players but no cover for the fullback positions. I think the only backup ye have to Heary & Crawley is moving Rogers as Brennan...
Drumcondra Red
13/06/2005, 10:21 AM
You need to come back to reality.
To reach CL group stages the easiest (lowest seeded) teams you'd have to beat would be Vålerengen in round 2 & Rosenborg in round 3.
Reality is making 2nd round at minimum & being competitive or drawing big team for tv cash.
Groups stages of UEFA Cup won't get anything like €4m. Ye only got 8k at home Lille game i think & tv compnaies don't queue up for the UEFA Cup.
:rolleyes:
If any Irish club got to the group stages of the UEFA Cup there would be TV companies showing all their games live!!!
jorge
13/06/2005, 10:28 AM
This run started when Owen Heary missed a couple of games through suspension or an injury.Stephen Brennan is verry poor.
Gerrit
13/06/2005, 10:43 AM
You need to come back to reality.
To reach CL group stages the easiest (lowest seeded) teams you'd have to beat would be Vålerengen in round 2 & Rosenborg in round 3.
Reality is making 2nd round at minimum & being competitive or drawing big team for tv cash.
Groups stages of UEFA Cup won't get anything like €4m. Ye only got 8k at home Lille game i think & tv compnaies don't queue up for the UEFA Cup.
:rolleyes:
Error ! Rosenborg are directly qualified for the Champions League this year. (Which is about team, we've been in it 10 times in 11 years, made the second stage couple of times, beat AC Milan and Real Madrid...)
Think personally reaching the third qualifying round would be a huge success already. Financially, drawing Celtic, Arsenal, Everton or Liverpool would be stunning (or Rangers, but I think they're in the CL automatically ? Plus, Rangers would demand more safety investments than the other British teams)
Gareth
13/06/2005, 10:43 AM
Its unfortunately true. The lack of Owen Heary has been a disaster. I never would of thought someone was so relied on but when you lose a key stone of defence, cracks begin to appear all over the shop. I could site lots of unfortunate events as an excuse for the run (clash of heads and lack of sub at bohs, the early injury in defence in UCD) but that would not make up for the fact the team have not played well and not performed. We need the players to start firing, the likes of Crowe, Baker, Stu Byrne, Hawkins, Rogers etc need to up their game for this to happen!!!
WeAreRovers
13/06/2005, 11:35 AM
32 posts and no mention of Shels cash-flow crisis. Players not being paid and cheques bouncing. Anyone heard anything?
KOH
Poor Student
13/06/2005, 11:42 AM
I doubt there's going to be any problems with cash at Shels. They're going to only now receive their European prize money from last season.
Risteard
13/06/2005, 11:48 AM
No, i haven't WeareRovers.
Tbh if City were 5 points behind with 24 games left, i'd be confident of their title ambitions.
Shels have no need to panic.
patsh
13/06/2005, 11:56 AM
32 posts and no mention of Shels cash-flow crisis. Players not being paid and cheques bouncing. Anyone heard anything?
KOH
Are you sure you are not confusing $h€l$ with Rovers here, WaR?.....;)
It would be fun though if some of Nuttsy's primadonnas didn't get their gambling money......
But back on topic, I don't see any crisis at $h€l$. There are 63 league points to play for yet and Europe to come. They just happen to have got their bad run and injury problems at the same time, and I'm sure the biggest problem Nuttsy will have in the months ahead is keeping all his fit again players happy.
Looking at $h€l$ squad, it's a lot stronger than City's, Derry's, Drogheda's or Boh's and that may make all the difference in the long run.
Shelsman
13/06/2005, 12:52 PM
Are you mad?! If you concentrate on Europe, you could find yourselves without european football next season
Apparantley not if you're Liverpool ! :D
:rolleyes:
Shelsman
13/06/2005, 12:52 PM
32 posts and no mention of Shels cash-flow crisis. Players not being paid and cheques bouncing. Anyone heard anything?
KOH
Look who's talking! :rolleyes:
Shelsman
13/06/2005, 12:58 PM
I think the squad size is a problem and I feared this. We are chopping and changing alot. Injuries haven't helped but if the squad is fit for 5 weeks in a row, can you see the same team and bench?
I think that signing Hawkins was uneccessary when we already had Harris and Rogers as a steady partnership. Yes, Hawkins is by far one of the best centrebacks in the league and I am a big fan of his, but signing Kevin Hunt would've made more sense.
It seems that Fenlon might even be afraid to go for a settled 11 ( which I think he should do where possible ), and might feel that he has to play all the big names to justfiy the expenditure and also to keep them happy. I don't have a problem with him making 3 subs per game for the last half hour but constantly changing the starting 11 is a bad idea IMO.
BohDiddley
13/06/2005, 1:11 PM
I think that signing Hawkins was uneccessary when we already had Harris and Rogers as a steady partnership. Yes, Hawkins is by far one of the best centrebacks in the league and I am a big fan of his, but signing Kevin Hunt would've made more sense.
It seems that Fenlon might even be afraid to go for a settled 11 ( which I think he should do where possible ), and might feel that he has to play all the big names to justfiy the expenditure and also to keep them happy. I don't have a problem with him making 3 subs per game for the last half hour but constantly changing the starting 11 is a bad idea IMO.
Nyuck, nyuck, fnar, fnar! Sorry Shelsman, but I really am going to have to frame that post! Need I add that I agree with every word of it? :D
I saw Collins (unmistakable in the shorts) traipsing out of TP up the road to training this morning. I was tempted to ask him how much he would pay us to take any of the three amigos back, but to be honest I hadn't the heart because he looked so depressed!
As for Hunt, my understanding is that you tried to get him but that he said no thanks and loyally, and in restrospect wisely, stayed at Bohs. Legend! :cool:
Error ! Rosenborg are directly qualified for the Champions League this year.
Says they are in 3rd qualifying round here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2005.html)
Will be interesting to see how long Shels directors can pay the players wages from their own funds.
I think that signing Hawkins was uneccessary when we already had Harris and Rogers as a steady partnership. Yes, Hawkins is by far one of the best centrebacks in the league and I am a big fan of his, but signing Kevin Hunt would've made more sense.
It seems that Fenlon might even be afraid to go for a settled 11 ( which I think he should do where possible ), and might feel that he has to play all the big names to justfiy the expenditure and also to keep them happy. I don't have a problem with him making 3 subs per game for the last half hour but constantly changing the starting 11 is a bad idea IMO.
Hawkins was their second best sining but shells got carried away by singing Gary O'Neill and Bobby Ryan because they already have three good strickers (+ one on loan)and a couple of midfielders who can do a job up front as for Ryan there is Ndo,Baker and other midfielders if injuries got really bad.
Hawkins was their second best sining but shells got carried away by singing Gary O'Neill and Bobby Ryan...
Yeah shels are probably lacking the up & coming player for the bench that still have hunger to play.
Gerrit
13/06/2005, 9:54 PM
www.rosenborg.info --> those who speak a bit of Norwegian will see RBK are qualified directly. This resource is their main fansite and updated equally fast, if not faster, than the official site www.rbk.no
So I think you can trust this. :)
Anyway, Shels and RBK playing each other would rip my football heart in two, so I hope it never happens. It'd be like two kids trying to outrule each other...
Slash/ED
13/06/2005, 10:11 PM
Anyway, Shels and RBK playing each other would rip my football heart in two, so I hope it never happens. It'd be like two kids trying to outrule each other...
It happened a few years back, RBK won 4-2 on agg.
Are you mad?! If you concentrate on Europe, you could find yourselves without european football next season, and that ain't gonna help.
Haven't you heard ? Champions league winners qualify automatically :rolleyes: ...
Gerrit
14/06/2005, 11:08 AM
It happened a few years back, RBK won 4-2 on agg.
Yeah, that was in my pre-Shels days... I wouldn't like to see it happen again, I rather see my favourite clubs avoid each other. Okay, there's always one proceeding, but always one going out as well, and I rather don't chose between two 'loved ones'. I rather see them both go seperate ways, eliminating other teams ; let the one win the Champions League and the other win the UEFA Cup ;)
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