Treaty United

[NeverFeltBetter]

Is seeking to apply for a First Division license for next season: https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/sport/587635/limerick-s-treaty-united-express-interest-in-applying-for-2021-first-division-licence.html

WNL team has played away this year, lost a cup semi-final at the weekend, and underage sides were in place. Still, seems a bit risky to try and enter the league now, with things the way they are and the very real possibility of not having any fans. But they seem to think they have the Market's Field.

I'm not sure what the status is of the company behind the other Limerick team, who got legal with Treaty when it was first announced. I presume it hasn't gone away entirely (except on foot!).

[sidewayspasser]

Would Rovers II be gone again if Treaty get a license?

[pineapple stu]

Yola United in Wexford talking about entering too.

Were Treaty an existing side before this year? With all due respect to the guys behind both applications, the history of made-up clubs joining the league is pretty poor, and more evidence of the need for a proper pyramid structure to bring clubs through naturally instead.

[sbgawa]

Would Rovers II be gone again if Treaty get a license?


Rovers applied to join the league before Limerick went bust, they didnt spend the money on a second team just to make the numbers even, i expect them to go again next year.
Who are this other wexford crowd? all due respect to wexford who are a nice bunch but the crowds there hardly justify a second team

[2 Year Contract]

I don’t know a lot about the people behind this Treaty United entity but would be interested to see if most Limerick FC fans on here will support them now if they get a licence?

[Treaty Gooner]

If they’re the only show in town then I suppose it’s a no brainer. Break out the popcorn, Crazy Pat is surely about to release a statement of his own

[DCSIL]

Rovers applied to join the league before Limerick went bust, they didnt spend the money on a second team just to make the numbers even, i expect them to go again next year.
Who are this other wexford crowd? all due respect to wexford who are a nice bunch but the crowds there hardly justify a second team

Get both the Wexford and Limerick teams in. Ten team league.
Is Pats idea of a B team dead in the water?

[nigel-harps1954]

Rovers II are only in for one season I had thought? That was the deal with the FD clubs to allow them in, or at least that was my understanding of it.

Treaty United will even out the numbers again so Rovers will be back to one team.

Those efforts would be better placed in looking for the re-formation of a reserve league.

[D24Saint]

Get both the Wexford and Limerick teams in. Ten team league.
Is Pats idea of a B team dead in the water?

Id guess that it would be at the moment. AFAIK that was bucko’s ambition. How much would a B team cost to field ?

[sbgawa]

Rovers II are only in for one season I had thought? That was the deal with the FD clubs to allow them in, or at least that was my understanding of it.

Treaty United will even out the numbers again so Rovers will be back to one team.

Those efforts would be better placed in looking for the re-formation of a reserve league.

In theory yes but one year on some of the biggest whingers at the time probably realize that the world didn't fall in Jack Byrne and Ronan Finn didn't turn up to terrorize Cabo or Bray so i expect it to continue.
Ironically two of the biggest whingers at the time were Drogs and Longford who both may be in the Premier next year.

[sbgawa]

Get both the Wexford and Limerick teams in. Ten team league.
Is Pats idea of a B team dead in the water?

That would be a 12 team league.

[sidewayspasser]

St Francis seem to have expressed their interest as well.
https://www.facebook.com/393743130705672/posts/3447232478690040/?d=n

[EatYerGreens]

St Francis seem to have expressed their interest as well.
https://www.facebook.com/393743130705672/posts/3447232478690040/?d=n

Crazy stuff.

The deadline is today and there are 3 names in the hat (barring an 1tth hour application by someone like Aranmore United, backed up by a world class DVD and plans for a 10,000 seater stadium on the exposed side of the island. #GLITW). Of those names, you'd have to put Treaty United (a.k.a Limerick Something) as strong favourites. St Francis will probably be told to work on their proposal and come back again in future. And Yola will hopefully be told to sort something out with Wexford FC (and to come up with a better name).

[Longfordian]

Are St Francis aligned to any LOI clubs for their underage set up currently? I assume that playing in the national leagues at those levels is the only reason they want to enter.

[Burnsie]

don't mention the war:
(https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/st-patrick-s-and-st-francis-to-be-dublin-saints-1.316204)

"As models dressed as St Francis and St Patrick arrived at the City West Hotel in a helicopter, Dolan was bullish about the venture. "This is probably the most exciting concept that we have seen in Irish football for a long time," said Dolan."

[nigel-harps1954]

Suggestions that Carlow/Kilkenny have put in an application now too.

[MKMK]

There is no reason why Rovers B should go. Whats wrong with having a 12 team 1st division.

[Burnsie]

in the unlikely event that there are more than 20 successful licencing applications, who would decide who is let in and how?

Presumably, whatever about the formalities, an attempt would be made to do it on a consensual basis between the FAI and the clubs. But would that involve all 19 existing clubs, or just the First Divisions ones, or some representative combination?

Could be a means of re-litigating the argument over Rovers II

[Poor Student]

There is no reason why Rovers B should go. Whats wrong with having a 12 team 1st division.

Just adds more dead rubber with no threat of relegation.

[sidewayspasser]

Who says there can't be more than 20?

[GUFCghost]

So Yola FC and Wexford FC are going to repeat the Mervue/Salthill debacle from Galway ten years ago?
Surely a breakdown of the club's potential support base is a demand of the application?

[passinginterest]

So Yola FC and Wexford FC are going to repeat the Mervue/Salthill debacle from Galway ten years ago?
Surely a breakdown of the club's potential support base is a demand of the application?

I don't think that's the case. I think it's one or the other, it appears like a sideways take over of sorts. I think Yola hope to use Ferrycarrig also. There's talk of well known junior club involvement, imagine it might be North End United, most of their current team are ex-Wexford Youths anyway.

[pineapple stu]

Just adds more dead rubber with no threat of relegation.
Top 8 into the play-offs will sort that.

[John83]

Just adds more dead rubber with no threat of relegation.
I've never bought that. Major leagues everywhere do fine with 20-24 teams, the middle half of whom spend the season with little to play for, but we seem to start panicking when it goes over 10.

[GUFCghost]

Ah, I see. Hopefully this will be a catalyst for sorting out the issues in Wexford football, allowing everyone to get behind one senior club.

[MKMK]

Maybe and that could be said about a lot of clubs who even if they get promoted have no realistic chance of winning the Premier Division. Are teams not allowed to have ambition, get the chance to give players an opportunity to play at a higher level. Rovers are now in their second stint with two teams in the league. Have any of their young players benefited from the experience. I am sure they have and hopefully we will have more clubs willing to give young players a chance. With the National underage leagues there will hopefully be a greater number of good young players coming through. Lets give them the chance to progress. It would be great to see a Limerick team back in the league as well as a strong Wexford team. In relation to relegation would all the various strands be prepared to sit down and work out a structure that would allow promotion and relegation at all levels. I think Germany have a model that works.

[EatYerGreens]

in the unlikely event that there are more than 20 successful licencing applications, who would decide who is let in and how?

Presumably, whatever about the formalities, an attempt would be made to do it on a consensual basis between the FAI and the clubs. But would that involve all 19 existing clubs, or just the First Divisions ones, or some representative combination?

Could be a means of re-litigating the argument over Rovers II

From the League's constitution :

"15.3 In the event of a tie, entry for new applicants will be decided solely upon the quality of DVDs submitted."

Or probably its 2020 equivalent- TikTok videos.

[David BOHie]

The Genesis report said we should strive to have 30 clubs spread geographically around the country. At that time we had 22. Now we have 19 and Rovers B. Over the next few years we should really aim to get that up to 20-22-24 and keep adding teams. The LOI has really grown organically over recent years and it would be fantastic if we could ride that growth and get Treaty, Carlow-Kilkenny, Monaghan, Kildare etc. I know these have all failed before but we have to trust this administration to grow the league or we will continue to lose clubs.

[Martinho II]

I thought it was a windup with Yola what does that stand for ? Weird name for a football club.
Would welcome St Francis back as was in Baldonnel only once in 2000 when we got promoted and they do have a good setup out there. Had actually forgotten about the war in Dublin 8!

I imagine Treaty Utd have to be strong favourites. Seen article in sun today saying that court case with Limerick v FAI was settled out of court so imagine that coast is clear for them to apply. If the womens team can apply why not the mens?

[kksaints]

I thought it was a windup with Yola what does that stand for ? Weird name for a football club.
Would welcome St Francis back as was in Baldonnel only once in 2000 when we got promoted and they do have a good setup out there. Had actually forgotten about the war in Dublin 8!

I imagine Treaty Utd have to be strong favourites. Seen article in sun today saying that court case with Limerick v FAI was settled out of court so imagine that coast is clear for them to apply. If the womens team can apply why not the mens?

Yola was a local language/dialect in South Wexford that died out in the 19th century.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Hmm... https://mobile.twitter.com/Live95Limerick/status/1326207709713199104

Rest assured I won't be going anywhere near a side that has POS' involvement.

[sbgawa]

St francis clearly want access to the underage set up. With cabo , st josephs (bray) and maybe now st francis in the league it can only be a matter of time before st kevins enter a team in the first division and run their own affairs.

[thebronze14]

So Yola FC and Wexford FC are going to repeat the Mervue/Salthill debacle from Galway ten years ago?
Surely a breakdown of the club's potential support base is a demand of the application?
Let's face it. There's nowhere that isn't currently in the league that's going to have decent support. These teams be no worse supported than some of the teams already there. Some of the teams in the NI Championship have little support but their league is improving. Good to see St Francis looking to get back in. Until there is a proper pyramid structure this is as good as we're going to get

[Kiki Balboa]

When was the last time a team entered into the league that develped a real fan base (that wasnt a pheonix club....)? For example, Wexford and Cabinteely seem to have no real fans to bring to away games.

Its a lot harder to develop anyone into a league of Ireland club, ie. an established fan base. Joining senior football is not a short term project, but something that takes 30+ years. A lot of the lubs have been grandfathered into their communities.

[nigel-harps1954]

St francis clearly want access to the underage set up. With cabo , st josephs (bray) and maybe now st francis in the league it can only be a matter of time before st kevins enter a team in the first division and run their own affairs.

Don't Kevin's already run the whole Bohs underage system?

[sbgawa]

Don't Kevin's already run the whole Bohs underage system?


yeah but its a marridge of inconvenience , kevins played the first season of the National underage leagues as St kevins before they were forced out and made to sit under Bohs.
The "bohs" academy play their away matchs in St Kevins orange colours as that was a redline for Kevins at the time.

Word is they would be as happy to ditch bohs if they could, im surprised they haven't applied this year but i think if Francis get in as joining other schoolboy clubs cabo and St Josephs (Bray) its inevitable they will apply to enter a senior team
.

[nigel-harps1954]

Further to the other rumour, Carlow/Kilkenny are not applying just yet

1326200399674662912

[EatYerGreens]

When was the last time a team entered into the league that develped a real fan base (that wasnt a pheonix club....)?

1984 - Cork City.

The problem is that there are no shortcuts to developing a support base in football. It takes generations to grow. Cork City were lucky in that they tapped into a relatively large population in a city with a long-tradition of producing well-supported LOI teams - so had a ready-made audience without a team. But apart from Derry City, no-one else has managed anything like that. And nor are they likely to in future without hardcore and very clever marketing support. But even with that - where are the genuinely big population centres without a team ? We're essentially just talking small towns.

[pineapple stu]

Cork was the ultimate phoenix club in fairness.

Derry - another phoenix club - joined in 85.

Bray and Longford also joined in 85 and while they're small, they're a step up from Cabo, Monaghan, etc

[Kingdom]

St francis clearly want access to the underage set up. With cabo , st josephs (bray) and maybe now st francis in the league it can only be a matter of time before st kevins enter a team in the first division and run their own affairs.

And honestly, that's what should have happened years ago, given the sheer number of players going through their books from a young age.

[EatYerGreens]

Cork was the ultimate phoenix club in fairness.

Derry - another phoenix club - joined in 85.

Bray and Longford also joined in 85 and while they're small, they're a step up from Cabo, Monaghan, etc

Longford joined along with Cork in 1984.

Where are the large population centres that don't already have an LOI team ? It's just Limerick, which will presumably get sorted for next year, and apart from that it's just small towns. Even somewhere like Navan only has 35,000 people. We need to be realistic about the fact that football is primarily an urban sport, and that small towns/population centres are extremely unlikely to be able to sustain a team in a very competitive professional environment. Sligo and Finn Harps perform miracles to remain competitive (with Harps not doing so consistently). The other competitive teams in the league are from relatively large population centres. And the other teams that aren't from large population centres just aren't consistently competitive.

[nigel-harps1954]

Longford joined along with Cork in 1984.

Where are the large population centres that don't already have an LOI team ? It's just Limerick, which will presumably get sorted for next year, and apart from that it's just small towns. Even somewhere like Navan only has 35,000 people. We need to be realistic about the fact that football is primarily an urban sport, and that small towns/population centres are extremely unlikely to be able to sustain a team in a very competitive professional environment. Sligo and Finn Harps perform miracles to remain competitive (with Harps not doing so consistently). The other competitive teams in the league are from relatively large population centres. And the other teams that aren't from large population centres just aren't consistently competitive.

In theory Carlow should be able to support a LOI side. There's a decent enough junior league, for such a small county, there's 25,000+ in the town, and the only dedicated football college course in Ireland within Carlow IT. The college itself already has facilities well capable of hosting LOI games, especially if they used the college GAA pitch as their ground.

But it's been done to death a million times over now, this discussion. It's not always about population, it's about location, and how you interact with the community. Any club within a reasonable sized area should be able to do it.

[Neish]

Will Treaty United be playing in Market's field ?

[Mr A]

Yeah they confirmed that in a press release Neish.

[Dr. football]

In theory Carlow should be able to support a LOI side. There's a decent enough junior league, for such a small county, there's 25,000+ in the town, and the only dedicated football college course in Ireland within Carlow IT. The college itself already has facilities well capable of hosting LOI games, especially if they used the college GAA pitch as their ground.

But it's been done to death a million times over now, this discussion. It's not always about population, it's about location, and how you interact with the community. Any club within a reasonable sized area should be able to do it.


Carlow IT should have a team in the LOI, the have facilities and the college scholarship already.

[Dr. football]

dont see what the big issue is with having a fan base for a new club, if you can finically afford a team in the LOI without a large fan base why should it matter? if a club is run right it can grow its fan base surly ? its not goin happen over night so it shouldnt effect another club, unless its YOLA and wexford but thats a sperate issue they haven openly said they are looking at replacing .

[Longfordian]

Some company called Irish Sea FC Ltd has expressed an interest it seems.

https://twitter.com/forgottenclubs/status/1326519968737976320?s=19

[Kiki Balboa]

dont see what the big issue is with having a fan base for a new club, if you can finically afford a team in the LOI without a large fan base why should it matter? if a club is run right it can grow its fan base surly ? its not goin happen over night so it shouldnt effect another club, unless its YOLA and wexford but thats a sperate issue they haven openly said they are looking at replacing .

Its not that a fan base matters as such in the short term, but long term survival definitely yes.

Plus its fans that make the league the league, so anyways to add a new group is always welcomed. If they have no fan base, it's much more like a junior team playing LOI.

Of course you cant expect any team to start in LOI to suddenly have fans. Its a long game, over generation or so. Hopefully clubs get tsupport to develop a fan base.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Some company called Irish Sea FC Ltd has expressed an interest it seems.

https://twitter.com/forgottenclubs/status/1326519968737976320?s=19

That's the same company that was involved with the takeover talks at Cabinteely a few months ago.

[Neish]

Yeah they confirmed that in a press release Neish.

Cheers, thought i had read i somewhere but then couldn't find it